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i liked how in Cold Steel the social links equivalents were linked to when you saw them and so they basically just added shading to the character development that taking place in the main story stay tuned for part 2 in my series in why Trails of Cold Steel is better than Persona at being Persona
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Feb 19, 2016 05:22
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Too many non--party member slinks lead to the P3 situation where half of them need to have their faces social link with the main character's fist.
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Feb 19, 2016 05:26
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The Gourmet King should have been a party member instead of an S-link
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Feb 19, 2016 05:30
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Freak Futanari posted:basically Ultra AIDS for video game writing Actually social links are fun and good and fit the atmosphere of the Persona world. 'Ultra AIDS for video game writing' is a term better applied to, oh I dunno, basically all RPGs except some Falcom poo poo and Planescape because they're all significantly worse than Persona in terms of writing and character development. Also gameplay, UI, visual style, and all other respects. Persona is good, which is great because most games are not good. Actually it's a term better applied to nothing at all, because who uses a phrase like 'Ultra AIDS for video game writing', honestly
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Feb 19, 2016 05:50
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Just make party member S. Links partially gated by plot similar to Adachi.
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Feb 19, 2016 05:51
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It could be possible for the larger narrative of the game be the primary guide for character development, while using the S. Links as an opportunity to explore the characters' lives and backgrounds more deeply in a way that doesn't cause issues with characters having to revert to their base characterizations for plot-necessary scenes. In other words, you get to know them better without that being the trigger for their revelations.
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Feb 19, 2016 05:56
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So, how like party member Slinks work in Persona 3?
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Feb 19, 2016 06:53
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I think there's room for improvements in how S.links work, like just because they've been this ten-step process based on your free time in P3 and P4 doesn't mean there's no other way to do it.
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Feb 19, 2016 06:58
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We have no confirmation if Social Links exist in Persona 5, do we? I kind of hope they don't. Social Links seemed pretty well explored by Persona 4. The only way I'd want to bring them back is if they were far more tactical in nature. Say you have a Social Link that has you befriending a "bad kid". This opens up other S-links, but also makes it more difficult to level other ones, and could have debilitating effects on your stats (You got pissed drunk in an alley after school; you are too hungover the next morning to pay attention in class). Or at least something that lets you explore both the positive and negative aspects of being a social butterfly.
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Feb 19, 2016 07:24
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Social links are half of the game. There is no way in hell they aren't in 5.
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Feb 19, 2016 07:35
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Cake Attack posted:i liked how in Cold Steel the social links equivalents were linked to when you saw them and so they basically just added shading to the character development that taking place in the main story I like the atmosphere in persona games a lot more.
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Feb 19, 2016 07:38
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Well googling told me that: "Cooperation is a game mechanic in Persona 5. According to developers, this mechanic will be similar to the Social Links of Persona 3 and Persona 4 and will involve the protagonist building relationships with helpers around the city for various benefits in battle" So there you go.
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Feb 19, 2016 07:41
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Linnaeus posted:I like the atmosphere in persona games a lot more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4sYwcojtUk
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Feb 19, 2016 07:55
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I think it's great that Persona has a precedent of radical shifts in style and gameplay, and I hope that the popularity of P3 and P4 don't make the Megaten developers hesitant to continue experimenting with the franchise. The main SMT line is already kind of stuck in its traditions; Persona and other spin-offs were to allow them to kind of do new and interesting things without having to worry about what came before. Now that the spin-off is its own huge series, I'm worried they'll start to let it stagnate as they did with SMT4.
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Feb 19, 2016 08:06
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TurnipFritter posted:Persona 5 kept getting delayed because they were adding a female protagonist option. If only. 
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Feb 19, 2016 09:34
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Social Links were cool because they were kind of a unique idea at the time and really added to the Buffy-style double lives feel. But they also went on too long and didn't tie in mechanically enough to the gameplay. Plus they were too simplistic and shouldn't have had roleplaying type stuff with your main crew linked to them. Building relationships with 'helpers' around the city sounds cool though, very heist movie like.
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Feb 19, 2016 10:08
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8-Bit Scholar posted:We have no confirmation if Social Links exist in Persona 5, do we? I kind of hope they don't. Social Links seemed pretty well explored by Persona 4. The only way I'd want to bring them back is if they were far more tactical in nature. Say you have a Social Link that has you befriending a "bad kid". This opens up other S-links, but also makes it more difficult to level other ones, and could have debilitating effects on your stats (You got pissed drunk in an alley after school; you are too hungover the next morning to pay attention in class). Or at least something that lets you explore both the positive and negative aspects of being a social butterfly. this sounds like a needlessly complicated and frustrating system
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Feb 19, 2016 10:51
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Social Links are cool and I liked hanging out with my friends, but they could be better and had significant flaws so I hope they are improved on for Persona 5.
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Feb 19, 2016 10:57
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It seems like the tone and character of 5 is going to be different from 3/4, so the S. Links are probably going to be different in some way; the fact that they're called something else and have more of a give-and-take connotation with the heist theme hints at it, at least to me. The character bios so far have a commonality of these characters having some trauma in the past and a fear of society/socializing, so the much more sunny way bonds are treated thematically in 3/4 would be somewhat dissonant here. Not to say that they will be portrayed in an opposite way, but rather that the feelings can perhaps be more nuanced. Then again, it could just be "friendships!!" as usual anyway.
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Feb 19, 2016 11:22
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it looks like the theme is heisting at first but I feel like it becomes something a little more sinister at some point if the preview trailer where the protag is being beaten by the cops is anything to go by
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Feb 19, 2016 11:51
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Cake Attack posted:i liked how in Cold Steel the social links equivalents were linked to when you saw them and so they basically just added shading to the character development that taking place in the main story My only problem with how Cold Steel did it is that you pretty much prioritized your own party for bonding events over other characters that aren't playable or are only guest characters, when some of the stuff revealed during the bonding events with the non-party characters could be fairly interesting and important and since there's only a limited number of bonding points and you can't max out everyone realistically in one playthrough without a lot of grinding, that kind of hurt the game a bit. But yes, in theory Cold Steel did Social Links better because they tied into whatever was happening in the main story at the time and didn't feel disconnected.
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Feb 19, 2016 12:18
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Cake Attack posted:i would rather p5 either not give party members links and have the development in the main story, or find a way to integrate them better
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Feb 19, 2016 13:52
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I guess my main desire for S-Links is that they not occur entirely within a bubble. Like I get that they did that so that you can play them in any order, etc. but having even just a few pieces of informed/changing dialogue a la Bethesda games would be cool. Even just throw some extra lines in the mid-dungeon party chatter if you get a link to let's say rank 8 like they did in P4 for costumes. I don't know exactly how it would work but that's my main problem with them, that each one is in this huge silo and nobody seems to notice you're spending all your free time hanging out with a ten year old or an alcoholic Buddhist.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:30
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What made the S-Links good in Persona (other than some pretty good writing for a number of them) was the fact that time is limited and you have to choose what you do. Its that choice that makes the game feel more free than it is. The limited time and the numerous options give you options that most other games don't have. I know some people don't like the calendar system, but to me its what made the Persona games unique and great.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:33
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The calendar system is the best part of Persona.projecthalaxy posted:I guess my main desire for S-Links is that they not occur entirely within a bubble. Like I get that they did that so that you can play them in any order, etc. but having even just a few pieces of informed/changing dialogue a la Bethesda games would be cool. Even just throw some extra lines in the mid-dungeon party chatter if you get a link to let's say rank 8 like they did in P4 for costumes. I don't know exactly how it would work but that's my main problem with them, that each one is in this huge silo and nobody seems to notice you're spending all your free time hanging out with a ten year old or an alcoholic Buddhist. Yeah, this. I can't imagine it would be very hard to write 3-4 versions of a handful of lines for each characters in each major plot event, and just have the game pick the line that corresponds to where you're at in the SL.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:34
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Agreed, it would be neat if they had a more involved system with your party members, but just integrating your party social links into the main story through stuff like previously mentioned would be real nice.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:47
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I think the way to do it would be kind of like how Marie was handled, in that you could only proceed to certain levels after a certain point in the story. So just gate off some of your party members' links and then have hooks in the plot/dialogue for different scenes if you've put in the time with the links. That way you can't like max out Yosuke and have scenes at the end of his link take place and not really make sense thematically in whatever major plot stuff is unfolding at the moment, but could more closely tie in certain events in the links to the main plot.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:50
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I think the reason they don't gate off more of them by story progression is that they don't want people to get overwhelmed by having like 10 social links available to them halfway through the game
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Feb 19, 2016 19:21
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I think it's great that Persona has a precedent of radical shifts in style and gameplay, and I hope that the popularity of P3 and P4 don't make the Megaten developers hesitant to continue experimenting with the franchise. The main SMT line is already kind of stuck in its traditions; Persona and other spin-offs were to allow them to kind of do new and interesting things without having to worry about what came before. Now that the spin-off is its own huge series, I'm worried they'll start to let it stagnate as they did with SMT4. I didn't feel like IV was stagnated much, if anything it changed a lot since it was designed to get people into the series.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:35
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The biggest change I feel SMTIV had was it's attempt to make it more character driven, which I really like. If only Walt and Johnny didn't have to have brain aneurysms for the route split to happen.
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Feb 19, 2016 21:22
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Scrap social links for an approval rating that goes up if you agree with them. Also, you can give them trinkets to improve it.
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Feb 19, 2016 21:31
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Pash posted:What made the S-Links good in Persona (other than some pretty good writing for a number of them) was the fact that time is limited and you have to choose what you do. Its that choice that makes the game feel more free than it is. The limited time and the numerous options give you options that most other games don't have. I know some people don't like the calendar system, but to me its what made the Persona games unique and great.  The calendar system and social links are what make Persona unique amongst JRPGs. Like you said that element of choice and time management gives the player a feeling of agency in the story that other JRPGs rarely offer. If they gated poo poo off more or just tied it directly to story progression then they'd just be standard story beats and you'd lose that unique feel.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:01
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The calendar system and S. Links are basically just datesim stuff.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:09
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Devil Survivor 2's fates improved the SLink system and fixed some of its issues. The tradeoff is that DeSu2 is a much shorter game so it could afford to do that. It'll take quite a bit of effort to do a system like that in a 50-100 hour JRPG.
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Feb 20, 2016 17:13
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My problem with DS2's Fate system is that you can max out a link during a completely inconsequential event thanks to it leveling up elsewhere. Yeah you could keep on hanging out with said character to get more development but that's a not exactly a good way to balance your time unless you literally have nothing else to do nearer the endgame.
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Feb 20, 2016 17:44
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Persona 4 help!: Any tips how to beat Nanako's kidnapper in the heaven dungeon{/spoiler]? The boss always gets me by having one of his magic attacks randomly does like 533HP damage or something. My people are all leveled at in the 40s, except [spoiler]Naoto who is at level 54 or something.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:53
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This time I think you may just be underleveled a bit, I'm usually around the high 60s by that point. Are you ignoring the Golden Hands perhaps? I feel like you'd have to kind of go out of your way to be in the 40s at that point in the game.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:19
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How the gently caress did you beat 8 bit at level 40
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Feb 20, 2016 22:37
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Nate RFB posted:This time I think you may just be underleveled a bit, I'm usually around the high 60s by that point. Are you ignoring the Golden Hands perhaps? I feel like you'd have to kind of go out of your way to be in the 40s at that point in the game. Not really. What I do once I go to a new dungeon: I go up the stairs until the first mid-boss fight. I fight most of the shadows that cross my path. When I get to the midboss I generally warp back to save "just in case" and warp back to fight the boss. I try to beat the boss, but don't expect to and try and get a good feel for them. If I beat the boss (like I did in the dungeon I am currently going through) I proceed to the next floor and warp back. If not, I warp back and have my character go home. Based on how the boss fight went I will go to the Central District and purchase what I need. For example if the boss inflicts Silence I will purchase anti-Silence items. I then go back and go into the Velvet Room. I fuse to create a Persona that is most adequate for the fight. If the boss uses primarily fire attacks and strong physical attacks, I will try and fuse a Persona that is resistant to fire and knows Tarunda or Tetrakan or something. I then go back to the dungeon and try to fight the boss. If I win I proceed, if I lose then I just grind until I beat them. Once I get to a boss I pretty much do the exact same thing. Once I beat the boss I won't have my character go back to any dungeons until the next Midnight Channel event. From then on I work on my social links and my characters attributes. Once the night Midnight Channel event happens I repeat things. So that is the gist of it. And yeah I ignore Golden Hands but that is because I often can't kill them before they run away. I'm really not sure how I can play this game normally and be reasonably leveled. I feel like I have to fight way too many enemies before approaching the boss as it is. I can't imagine being in the 60s at this point. I mean I beat the previous boss, the one that I had trouble with and asked before, by merely gaining one level and fusing a new Persona. Luna Was Here posted:How the gently caress did you beat 8 bit at level 40 I beat that in the low 30s. I just had Teddie heal everyone while my main character spam Tarunda. If the baby was performing attacks that one of my party members were weak to, I had them on Guard. If the baby character was resistant to one of my party member's magic attacks then I would have that party member throw high damaged items at the baby. I also had a bunch of anti-Silence stuff and had my main character equipped with an anti-Silence band. As long as your party can survive the enemy's giant form he is pretty simple. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 22:40
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Well I strongly recommend you figure out how to kill Golden Hands, then. Every single one of them tends to have a "trick" that will let you kill them in some sort of reasonably reliable manner. For my own part I don't think I do anything particularly different from you're doing other than killing those hands. Sometimes on a rainy day I'd go back into the dungeon to do quests or something (and get some of those rain-only items) but that can only account for so much.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:48
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