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Too Poetic posted:Every time I read suggested gameplay changes in this thread I feel bad for the jokes I make about Wiz Wiz forgives us our trespasses, I hope.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:43
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FadingChord posted:I've seen Spain and Britain both go into India and take pretty good chunks of land. Europeans used to break into India semi-regularly because Indian nations formerly fell way, way behind in miltech pretty quickly. That plus the missions ensured European outposts at least. Now, the Europeans are not very interested in India because it isn't easy pickings, which is great if you're Indian tech and also more historical, but prevents on-time imperialism.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:16
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From the European AI perspective, why bother to break into India? The rich provinces aren't worth anything because they stay at 75% autonomy plus wrong culture and religion group. There are trade benefits, but they're not major unless you can redirect a lot of trade to your home node. Those aren't the only reasons to start colonizing India but as far as short-term benefits go I can see why the AI would not want to bother. e: Actually, considering that territorial acquisition of India was sort of an accident this sort of makes historical sense. But how to get players and AIs to do the same? Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 01:35
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So I just had this happen in my Albania game   Thanks to my best bro Brandenburg and 8 loans though, this is the end result  Thank god I was the Holy Roman Emperor so I got all the extra bonuses, or I don't think I would've pulled it off. It was very touch and go for a bit with France having conquered almost all of Iberia, but a lucky siege roll gave me Paris and that caused Brandenburg/Poland to start beating up on the French armies instead of sieging. Not bad when you're going up against the #1 power in the world. I cut France off from further expansion in Iberia and/or vassalizing Spain, restored a bunch of Portuguese cores, grabbed more land for Portugal, Brandenburg and myself, and to top it all off I now have Poland as a lapdog for the rest of the game (unless I gently caress up their liberty desire). Random PUs are amazing 
axeil fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 02:36
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Too Poetic posted:Every time I read suggested gameplay changes in this thread I feel bad for the jokes I make about Wiz Oh these? *chuckles*
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Feb 20, 2016 03:43
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8 loans really isn't all that many.
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Feb 20, 2016 03:50
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:8 loans really isn't all that many. Then I think I must still be traumatized from EU3 where anything more than 0 loans meant you were in deep poo poo and about to spiral into bankruptcy. Or was that inflation? I forget, it's been a very long time since I played EU3.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:16
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axeil posted:Then I think I must still be traumatized from EU3 where anything more than 0 loans meant you were in deep poo poo and about to spiral into bankruptcy. I took 80 loans in a multiplayer game and it turned out okay.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:40
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Loans were dangerous in EU3 because you could only have 5 out at once, so you could easily go bankrupt. In EU4, loans are basically free money. Most early game challenges can be overcome by taking out a ton of loans and throwing mercs at the problem. Like in my Novgorod game earlier today, I had racked up 3000 ducats of debt by 1500 just from keeping Muscowy from steamrolling me. And paying them back is less an issue of the interest payments and more an issue of having to spend admin points to keep your inflation under control.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:48
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I'm so looking forward to the new Africa. Finally I'll be able to do African Power without falling asleep before a decade has passed.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:51
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Loans aren't free money, you can easily get swamped in interest and never be able to recover.
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Feb 20, 2016 06:41
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Average Bear posted:Loans aren't free money, you can easily get swamped in interest and never be able to recover. when do u get ur good av back also during my ottoman campaign last night i got a bit cocky and let a few troops sit in some attrition land during sieges. 111k manpower late holy poo poo it took me like a year to recover all the lost manpower having to shuffle previously full regiments into eachother to having 3 sad 20 stacks all running around suppressing rebels :c also seperatism. do i just look at revolt risk and park guys near there (within a province) to prevent the "10 years of seperatism"? i assume that means that at some point between now and 10 years they revolt again. I'm not sure because sometime i've conquered some poo poo and right after the war the same rebels are gaining power which i assumed was because well i conquered some more land that isnt immediately cored. how does culture affect revolts? verbal enema fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 06:46
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verbal enema posted:also seperatism. do i just look at revolt risk and park guys near there (within a province) to prevent the "10 years of seperatism"? i assume that means that at some point between now and 10 years they revolt again. I'm not sure because sometime i've conquered some poo poo and right after the war the same rebels are gaining power which i assumed was because well i conquered some more land that isnt immediately cored. Whenever separatists capture territory (they only do it in provinces their nation has cores on) that isn't on or adjacent to a fort you get 10 more years of separatism. Each year of separatism gives you... 0.5 revolt risk I think? So you're more likely to get rebels sooner rather than later since the revolt risk is higher. And every year, one year of separatism goes away. Once you see their risk of uprising in the Stability tab reach around 80% you want to park an army on or near the provinces that has those potential rebels. You can counter rebel uprising rate by raising autonomy, which gives the province -10 revolt risk for a long time, but autonomy makes provinces give you less of pretty much everything - money, manpower. Autonomy ticks down to zero slowly. You can park stacks on provinces with RR, they will reduce it for -5 RR at 20k troops, any more troops than that has no effect. Generally, if you take a nice big chunk out of an enemy in a peace deal, you're going to get rebels (the Humanism idea group helps with this tremendously,) so be ready with a couple stacks when their rebel uprising reaches that 80% mark or so.
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Feb 20, 2016 07:05
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FadingChord posted:I've seen Spain and Britain both go into India and take pretty good chunks of land. The mutually beneficial relationship part could be something like having ports in a trade node (especially one far away from your capital), acting like a major multiplier on the trade power you can exert in that trade node* (giving Europeans a reason to want them), and on the Indian side, they could receive a significant percentage of the trade power generated by their European partners in whichever trade nodes they've granted a port. As there would be a limit to the number of these kinds of ports, European powers would naturally have to compete over them, resulting in proper inter-European competition. Of course when (and if) one country eventually managed to (largely) kick their rivals out of India, they could have the lead on tech and a foothold in enough parts of India that the likelihood of attempting to deepen their control of India goes way up. *Maybe tied to diplo tech.
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Feb 20, 2016 07:14
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Node posted:Whenever separatists capture territory (they only do it in provinces their nation has cores on) that isn't on or adjacent to a fort you get 10 more years of separatism. Each year of separatism gives you... 0.5 revolt risk I think? So you're more likely to get rebels sooner rather than later since the revolt risk is higher. And every year, one year of separatism goes away. Once you see their risk of uprising in the Stability tab reach around 80% you want to park an army on or near the provinces that has those potential rebels. ok cool well drat i need to look at that revolt risk map more so ican pinpoint these areas. is humanist dumb for ottomans well ok no idea is dumb (lol naval) but i mean i really do plan on just riding this game out so i can learn as much as possible and after the middle east im just planning on destroying europe with my buddy russia
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Feb 20, 2016 07:19
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Humanist is amazing for the Ottomans, and any other nation with +Tolerance bonuses to be had (most of the Indian Sultanates, Kazan, Tengris, Oirat, others probably). All that tolerance means you don't ever have to bother converting anything.
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Feb 20, 2016 07:23
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what does tolerance of the true faith mean like i want to unify islam since i dont need that much more to do so but what if certain provences are a religion i cant convert since all the times are like 144 to ---- which just suuucks
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Feb 20, 2016 07:25
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verbal enema posted:ok cool well drat i need to look at that revolt risk map more so ican pinpoint these areas. Humanism is kinda perfect for the Ottomans, although they already have religious tolerance built into their own ideas. The admin idea groups are mostly the best idea groups - Administrative will give you Adaptability, which is a -25% coring cost reduction, which is probably the best single idea in the game. It's ridiculous on top of the Ottomans own -33% idea. verbal enema posted:what does tolerance of the true faith mean like i want to unify islam since i dont need that much more to do so but what if certain provences are a religion i cant convert since all the times are like 144 to ---- which just suuucks It means that your own religion will give every province with that religion reduced revolt risk. If you can get your tolerance of heretics and heathen at or above zero (like you can with Humanism, or simply with the Ottoman ideas) they won't count against religious unity. So you don't need to bother converting and you won't have revolt risk from having religious disunity. Node fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 07:28
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verbal enema posted:what does tolerance of the true faith mean like i want to unify islam since i dont need that much more to do so but what if certain provences are a religion i cant convert since all the times are like 144 to ---- which just suuucks Unifying Islam effectively requires taking Religious Ideas rather than Humanism. You'll never convert everything in time without it.
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Feb 20, 2016 07:39
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verbal enema posted:what does tolerance of the true faith mean like i want to unify islam since i dont need that much more to do so but what if certain provences are a religion i cant convert since all the times are like 144 to ---- which just suuucks Not really relevant for Ottomans because they are designed to be a cosmopolitan nation of different cultures and religions but when you play other nations and need to do some converting you basically have to stack Missionary Strength bonuses. You can hire an advisor, take national decisions, pick Religious ideas, do whatever your Religion's unique mechanics offer, etcetera.
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Feb 20, 2016 07:42
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Now that the Berber states are getting a unique piracy mechanic, will the Knights get something analogous? And possibly a Christian state sponsorship mechanic (I can dream!)?
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Feb 20, 2016 08:04
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Tolerance of the true faith is good because it has no upper limit while heathen and heretic tolerance is capped at +3. In times of trouble your heathen and heretic provinces will be particularly susceptible to revolt, even with max tolerance. That's why it's better to convert them even if you have tolerance bonuses. Tolerance just makes them less angry until you show them the light.
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Feb 20, 2016 08:13
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So straits, how do they work? I'm playing portugal and I'm trying to take over the Malacca trade node, there's a strait that I own one side of and my navy is parked in the adjoining sea zone but Malacca just walks their 40k troops across like it's no big deal. I thought it was only if they or their allies control both sides on the strait they can come across?
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Feb 20, 2016 11:55
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PittTheElder posted:Unifying Islam effectively requires taking Religious Ideas rather than Humanism. You'll never convert everything in time without it. It is a very powerful decision tough. I really love it
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Feb 20, 2016 13:14
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re: talk of AI not going for Asia enough, basically every game I play as Japan ends in the 1700s with Britain, France, and Spain all declaring wars of imperialism on me.
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Feb 20, 2016 14:22
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Fellblade posted:So straits, how do they work? They didn't have your side occupied did they? Otherwise it sounds like a bug.
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Feb 20, 2016 14:36
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Can't wait to see how the English channel strait will work.
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Feb 20, 2016 14:49
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Jeoh posted:Blow Boys Blow - The African Fetishist Expansion Europa Universalis IV: Fetishizing African Expansion
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Feb 20, 2016 14:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Part of what kept the British from going hard into India before that point was inter-European competition though. That's not to say that they could have taken India in 1600, but it would be nice if you had the lead-up too. Like if the Indian coast had a bunch of Lübeck-sized provinces which Indian powers could grant to Europeans in return for a mutually beneficial relationship, meaning there wouldn't be a reason for either side to attempt to conquer the other. Or more precisely, the Europeans would be doing a lot of sucking up early on to maintain the relationship, because the states they're dealing with could kick them out if they wanted to. European expansion in India is pretty interesting, because you can actually pinpoint the moment the Europeans realised they had a massive military advantage on land (the advantage at sea was already long established) to a specific battle in the First Carnatic War, where the Nawab of Arcot sent ten thousand cavalrymen to the aid of his British allies and got trounced by barely five hundred French infantry. Interesting also because the British kept seeking legal sanction for their expansion from the Mughals, long after the empire was functionally extinct. In 1716 (so, just a decade or so after it started to break down), they managed to get Farrukhsiyar to sign a firman or farman, which formalised the EIC's commercial and territorial status on a pan-imperial level, something they'd been trying to wrangle for about a century at that point. Fifty years later (1765, at which point the empire was mostly theoretical), they managed to cash that in for the diwani over Bengal, which, at least in a legal sense, turned the EIC into the Mughals' chief revenue officer in the region (but practically just annexed Bengal to the Brits). Now in EUIV, when I invade India, I drop a pair of stacks in Ceylon in the mid-17th century and just start eating my way northwards. A Buttery Pastry posted:The mutually beneficial relationship part could be something like having ports in a trade node (especially one far away from your capital), acting like a major multiplier on the trade power you can exert in that trade node* (giving Europeans a reason to want them), and on the Indian side, they could receive a significant percentage of the trade power generated by their European partners in whichever trade nodes they've granted a port. As there would be a limit to the number of these kinds of ports, European powers would naturally have to compete over them, resulting in proper inter-European competition. Of course when (and if) one country eventually managed to (largely) kick their rivals out of India, they could have the lead on tech and a foothold in enough parts of India that the likelihood of attempting to deepen their control of India goes way up. Theoretically speaking there are systems in the game already doing most of this. The production bonus to natives for having trade companies in a region is a joke though, at least if we're talking about scattered trade posts.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:01
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Autonomous Monster posted:European expansion in India is pretty interesting, because you can actually pinpoint the moment the Europeans realised they had a massive military advantage on land (the advantage at sea was already long established) to a specific battle in the First Carnatic War, where the Nawab of Arcot sent ten thousand cavalrymen to the aid of his British allies and got trounced by barely five hundred French infantry.  Autonomous Monster posted:Theoretically speaking there are systems in the game already doing most of this. The production bonus to natives for having trade companies in a region is a joke though, at least if we're talking about scattered trade posts.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:53
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Well, my latest Ethiopia game has gone down in flames. The Ottomans are never going to be beatable - it's 1660 and they stretch from Hungary to Pakistan. Their armies crush mine when I outnumber them substantially and they have double my force limit.
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Feb 20, 2016 17:14
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Jazerus posted:Well, my latest Ethiopia game has gone down in flames. The Ottomans are never going to be beatable - it's 1660 and they stretch from Hungary to Pakistan. Their armies crush mine when I outnumber them substantially and they have double my force limit. you can do it. use the following strategy 1. ally whoever their rivals are. if you can't set them as a rival, set their interaction to hostile 2. tech and minister up. the +discipline minister is a necessity as is making sure you're at least at parity with the ottomans on military tech, and ideally ahead of them. if you can get ahead of them by 2 or 3 techs you'll be crushing them easily. 3. mercs. so many mercs. you only need them until you beat down the ottomans, the loans are temporary. if you ridiculously blow your budget, just set maintenance to nothing until you're about to go to war, then pass war taxes. 4. if there's any coalition against them try and join it. 5. expand away from the ottomans, you don't need tons of land from them, you just need to blunt them in north africa. 6. if you are decisively winning a war with them, stay in until they have 20 WE and rebel stacks popping across the country. make sure you and/or your allies don't fight the stacks. the goal of this war shouldn't be taking territory, but instead ripping the ottomans apart from the inside out. ideally the ottomans have no army, so make sure to take all their money in a peace deal so they can't raise mercs to put down the rebellions. the ottomans have so many different races and religions in them that if you can beat them down enough they'll pop like a balloon. if you can seriously weaken the ottomans and keep them from expanding further into africa i think you can pull it off. axeil fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 17:25
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The Straight Talk achievement was quite boring once you get on firm ground and have enough power to control Arabia. Took me until the early 1700s to unlock enough policies.
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Feb 20, 2016 17:53
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Jazerus posted:Well, my latest Ethiopia game has gone down in flames. The Ottomans are never going to be beatable - it's 1660 and they stretch from Hungary to Pakistan. Their armies crush mine when I outnumber them substantially and they have double my force limit. If you took Economic, Religious, and Quality ideas you can get +10% Morale and +7.5% Discipline from policies, which helps even the field a lot. Also if you wait a bit longer the Ottomans may get the Janissary Decadence event, which will wreck them.
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Feb 20, 2016 18:05
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A Buttery Pastry posted:An excellent data point to balance EU4 around. Oh hush. It's interesting! 
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Feb 20, 2016 18:33
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Autonomous Monster posted:Oh hush. It's interesting!
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Feb 20, 2016 19:06
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Bort Bortles posted:Do you own all of East Africa? Are you Westernized? Do you have Trade Companies in Indonesia, The Moluccas, and The Philippines all sending trade to Zanzibar? quote:If you took Economic, Religious, and Quality ideas you can get +10% Morale and +7.5% Discipline from policies, which helps even the field a lot. Religious is out as I went for Humanist. I'm filling out Offensive and planning to grab Quality next. quote:Also if you wait a bit longer the Ottomans may get the Janissary Decadence event, which will wreck them. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 19:36
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Jeoh posted:Blow Boys Blow - The African Fetishist Expansion Europa Universalis IV: Fetishizing African Expansion
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Feb 20, 2016 19:59
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Jazerus posted:I own nearly all of Africa, plus Arabia and southern Iberia (Castile had a bad time of it). I westernized a hundred years ago. I am the dominant power in Indonesia and the Moluccas, with Canton and the Philippines as my next targets. Admin has been the real limiter on my Asian expansion. I got a merchant out of the Phillipines by colonizing Manila and adding it to my Trade Company, then ignored the place if I remember correctly, Canton can be taken over (51% for the TC) with the province of Canton , the estuary in Indochina, and a few in-between.It sucks that you went Humanist instead - you can get some awesome military-related Policies with Religious, but Humanist is pretty much associated with non-military policies (except for Quantity, which can give you +1 shock).
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Feb 20, 2016 20:35
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Star posted:The Straight Talk achievement was quite boring once you get on firm ground and have enough power to control Arabia. Took me until the early 1700s to unlock enough policies. Yeah. Hormuz is easily the best place to start for Lighting the Fires too. Have some border gore:  Does it seem like Lithuania never explodes from Ukrainian rebels anymore? I swear they've been ridiculously stable the past few patches. Schizotek fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Feb 20, 2016 |
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Feb 20, 2016 20:43
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