|
PT6A posted:Do they, though (according to regulation)? That is literally the question being discussed right now. Where are NavCan's documents? The FAA's are all public unless they contain sensitive information. But I can't find what NavCan uses.
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:26 |
|
|
The Ferret King posted:That is literally the question being discussed right now. Oh, sorry, I misread your answer and thought you were providing an answer. I looked briefly in the AIM (available at http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/AIM-2014-1-E-ACCESS.pdf ) and none of the radio phraseology examples (on p. 303 of the PDF, or printed page 275, for example) include "roger." I don't think this is definitive one way or the other, but I'd certainly lean toward it being a controller idiosyncrasy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
KodiakRS posted:Whats with YYZ approach control responding with "roger" after every readback? I'm pretty sure it's a Canada thing, since I hear it all the time with center and approach controllers going into Vancouver and Calgary.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
From NavCanada's phraseology guide: https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Publications/VFR%20Phraseology.pdf ROGER -- I have received your transmission (generally used by ATC rather than pilots) Maybe I just never noticed it when I was flying.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 03:03
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:I'm pretty sure it's a Canada thing, since I hear it all the time with center and approach controllers going into Vancouver and Calgary. It's not every Vancouver controller but it is most of them, yes. Airline 5761, Vancouver center, contact Vancouver approach 132 decimal 1" "Okay 132 decimal 1 airline 5761" "Roger" "You guys have a good night." "Roger, you too" "And thanks for the direct there." "Roger" It's literally impossible to get the last word. This of course leads to pilots playing games with them because we're bored and it's comical. I wouldn't because I am a perfect professional but perhaps some others would.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 10:19
|
|
|
Gander. ATC clears random callsign climb and maintain FL410. Report level FL410 on this frequency before 36 West. Random callsign climb and maintain FL410, report level prior to 36 West. Gander. Random callsign. Gander. This could go on all day.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
ausgezeichnet posted:Gander. Trying to get T16 clearance off Shanwick using hf when its busy. Oh. Hell
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
hjp766 posted:Trying to get T16 clearance off Shanwick using hf when its busy. Oh. Hell There used to be a controller we called "last word Mary" at PHL Approach who had to have the last word in an exchange. Cue dozens of easily amused Commuter pilots engaging in endless "see-ya!", "so-long!" and "Roger" battles with her during frequency changes. OCD is a hell of an affliction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Passed the academy today, what a pain in the dick
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
two_beer_bishes posted:Passed the academy today, what a pain in the dick Congrats! Where are you headed?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Great job. You should be very proud. Keep your head in the game. Always be studying and monitoring. Adapt to the toxic personalities as needed and don't make yourself a target. Be the consummate professional trainee and try to feel everyone out. Good luck, bud. If you have any questions post here or PM one of us. Join the union.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
fknlo posted:Congrats! Where are you headed? I'll find out on Monday! The Ferret King posted:Great job. You should be very proud. Keep your head in the game. Always be studying and monitoring. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep all of it in mind!
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 12:55
|
|
|
two_beer_bishes posted:Passed the academy today, what a pain in the dick gently caress. Yes. Congrats, man! Do you know what facilities your class is selecting from, even?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Also, what was the overall pass/fail rate for your class?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
two_beer_bishes posted:Passed the academy today, what a pain in the dick Good job. A little advice for live training: don't say much at all to your trainer. Don't make excuses when you make mistakes, just keep your mouth shut and press on. Every trainer is going to have some peculiarities they want you to do, just do what they say and keep track of who likes what. After you get rated you can develop your own style.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:gently caress. Yes. Thanks! ZOA, ZNY, ZMP, ZHU. I'm not expecting to get any of the few ZMP/ZHU slots so I'm looking at ZNY or ZOA. The Ferret King posted:Also, what was the overall pass/fail rate for your class? 100% passed Iucounu posted:Good job. A little advice for live training: don't say much at all to your trainer. Don't make excuses when you make mistakes, just keep your mouth shut and press on. Every trainer is going to have some peculiarities they want you to do, just do what they say and keep track of who likes what. After you get rated you can develop your own style. Yeah I learned to not make excuses for my mistakes, unlike a few of my classmates (and that pissed off a lot of people). I appreciate the advice, I'll keep my head down and do exactly what they want me to do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
I'd steer clear of ZNY if possible unless you have connections there. Just from what I've heard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
fknlo posted:I'd steer clear of ZNY if possible unless you have connections there. Just from what I've heard. I sort of do, I know a couple guys that work there. I'm not from NY but I've been living there for 6 years and it's not too inconvenient to stick around. My wife has a good job there too, and we already live less than a 5min drive from the center.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 04:05
|
|
|
Still, connections or not, stay the gently caress away from ZNY unless you want to be collecting unemployment in the future. Same for ZOA. ZHU is a decent one apparently, but it can be hit or miss I hear. I know nothing about ZMP, but I'm guessing it is probably some care bear poo poo compared to those other three based on the flow of traffic in the states alone. But yeah, take the advice you have read here. Specifically, join the union. It doesn't matter what your political views are about unions. You join NATCA as a trainee. One of the biggest things people are going to want to make sure you are doing is "playing the game" and being a trainee in the union is one of them. This isn't a career field where you can be a rebel in training and beat the system.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 05:24
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:Still, connections or not, stay the gently caress away from ZNY unless you want to be collecting unemployment in the future. Same for ZOA. ZHU is a decent one apparently, but it can be hit or miss I hear. I know nothing about ZMP, but I'm guessing it is probably some care bear poo poo compared to those other three based on the flow of traffic in the states alone. You especially join the union at ZNY. We had a 20ish year CPC transfer out there flat out get told he wasn't going to get checked out because he wasn't NATCA. So he ended up back at ZKC for a year or so before he retired. I believe it's basically on par with the big TRACON's they no longer send new hires to as far as the wash out rate goes. I admittedly don't know poo poo about ZOA, but there was a lot of negative talk about it when I was at the academy almost 5 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 05:55
|
|
|
The Ferret King posted:Join the union. I had no idea this was optional. Figured it was a closed shop. TMYK
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
Even if you're vehemently anti-Union, join the union the moment you walk in the door, and stay in till you get checked out. It's worth it. I'm having issues at the moment that are a lot easier to deal with because the union (and especially the rank and file in my area) have my back. It's. Worth. It. Also, echoing the ZNY rumor mill; You will not get checked out there unless you're one of the good ol' boys, so to speak. Go somewhere, anywhere else, if you possibly can.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:Still, connections or not, stay the gently caress away from ZNY or ZOA unless you want to be collecting unemployment in the future. . ZHU is a decent one apparently, but it can be hit or miss I hear. I know nothing about ZMP, but I'm guessing it is probably some care bear poo poo compared to those other three based on the flow of traffic in the states alone. Edited that for you. gently caress ZOA and ZNY. You will wash out. That is not a challenge, but a guarantee. If you want to go there, do it as a CPC transfer, when you've already made the big bucks and if you wash out you go to NEST, not the welfare office. "But but but..." I had 7 classmates that went to ZOA, 1 was fired (not even offered a tower job), 4 washed out in D School and are now working at level 6 towers (Wahoo! [and no offense to anyone at a level 6 tower])- that was in the day that the FAA gave a gently caress about trying to get you placed. They don't anymore, you will just be laid off under probationary standards. The other two are still there because they have tits. TangoFox fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Feb 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
I am so thankful for my progression through my facilities. I've yet to work somewhere where folks outright tell new people that they're not going to check them out for any reason.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
The Ferret King posted:I am so thankful for my progression through my facilities. I've yet to work somewhere where folks outright tell new people that they're not going to check them out for any reason. I think this is becoming less and less prevalent at most reasonable facilities with a renewed focus on training and training review boards and that kind of stuff. My training experience was pretty alright, but I had a lot of warning about what to do/not to do and put on my best possible training face.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
We shoot ourselves in the foot with that sort of behavior. Of course, the worst offenders are also closest to retirement and won't be around to enjoy the fallout of this staffing crisis as it worsens. The new folks sometimes don't do themselves any favors though. We have a poo poo load of new guys from the "previous experience" bid. That bid put former military controllers in the busiest FAA facilities for their first try. These guys have targets on their backs. Sure, they worked planes in the military, but the transition to civilian control can take a lot of time for some of these folks, and a level 12 facility isn't the best place to get your feet wet. Adding to the already poor perception, is their almost universally poor work ethic. I shouldn't have to say this out loud, but if you're in training you shouldn't be playing ping pong, watching movies, or sleeping at work. These guys are digging their own graves and the advice that's being given to them isn't subtle. I understand they're frustrated because they all showed up at the same time and the facility hasn't been quick in providing them class time/training, but we all know that's irrelevant. You've gotta stay vigilant and commit to learning the operation even when management is dragging their feet. I said "almost universally poor work ethic" because there is an exception. Exactly ONE of the 20 or so Previous Experience Hires is constantly studying and monitoring the operation. Hopefully it pays off for him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Our most junior trainee is USMC enlisted prior experience. His first day on the floor as an A-side trainee was hilarious. My favorite comment was "I was really expecting to be on the floor more than a few minutes before feeling like a complete idiot. That is not the case." Training is drinking from a firehose of information, pain, and suffering. Mostly the latter two.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2016 00:49
|
|
|
TangoFox posted:Edited that for you. hah I had to re-read what I wrote to figure out what you added in. More union talk. The union at ZJX is absolutely loving WORTHLESS. Hands down, one of the worst unions in all of the FAA. You STILL join the union. The union at ZJX is pretty notorious for only bothering to help open and shut situations and giving no gently caress about anything else. Granted, the overall union president for the SE region is a sack of poo poo, but you get the idea. I have honest to god seen management do more for controllers at ZJX by an order of loving magnitudes (whoah, wtf this happens?!). Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Feb 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2016 03:13
|
|
|
Just passed my first function's simulator evaluations. 3 more class/sim functions to go before I can start training on real airplanes. Doing all functions' class and sims up front so I can move quickly between them during OJT upon certifying on each one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
Taking a tour of ZLC center this afternoon, any questions I should ask on your guys behalf?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Butt Reactor posted:Taking a tour of ZLC center this afternoon, any questions I should ask on your guys behalf? Ask them what the last time they staffed a tracker position was.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:Ask them what the last time they staffed a tracker position was. The gently caress is that. Also, I went to the academy recently with one of their former controllers. He was transferring to New York Approach with another controller from Oakland Center. From En Route to New York Approach... Yeesh I don't envy them. Pretty sharp folks though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Butt Reactor posted:Taking a tour of ZLC center this afternoon, any questions I should ask on your guys behalf? Go to the Idaho area and ask Brian how his trip to key west was. It'll freak him the gently caress out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 01:03
|
|
|
TangoFox posted:Go to the Idaho area and ask Brian how his trip to key west was. It'll freak him the gently caress out. Who are you anyway?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
The Ferret King posted:The gently caress is that. When It is of wildly varying effectivity, since the tracker generally doesn't have the flick when they sit down, and some people aren't very good at it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
D-side+Tracker is already synonymous with Coordinator from my experience. There wasn't an extra, EXTRA D-Side. Except the Supe and controllers on break just watching the show maybe. It's the position you call in when it's already too late and they never have the flick or get a proper briefing. So I guess terminal Coordinators are like trackers. But they're also like D-sides
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
The Ferret King posted:Who are you anyway? I work with Yenko, same area at ZMA. I'm also the area rep for NATCA.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 04:36
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:When I prefer to do it the opposite of this when I have a tracker and I stay sitting at the R side and they give me a second set of eyes. It's way less complicated. Trying to gently caress around with another controllers settings and keep up with what the R side is doing while also doing other stuff is stupid.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 05:32
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:Ask them what the last time they staffed a tracker position was.  But...appropriate. Tracker at ZLC is pretty much what an A-Side is at most en-route facilities these days.fknlo posted:I prefer to do it the opposite of this when I have a tracker and I stay sitting at the R side and they give me a second set of eyes. It's way less complicated. Trying to gently caress around with another controllers settings and keep up with what the R side is doing while also doing other stuff is stupid. This is how ZJX does it, every area. What you talk about is pretty god drat logical and how they "train" tracker is the dumbest poo poo. Glad to hear you are doing that. Typically what I see is: Tracker: Another set of eyes (stands behind, to the side if needed). R-Side: Keeps doing their thing. D-Side: Keeps doing their thing. During Sun and Fun (what a loving poo poo show) it isn't uncommon for more than a few of our sectors to have 2-3 trackers. Winter months will have our AR Routes with a tracker drat near half the time. Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Feb 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:26 |
|
|
TangoFox posted:I work with Yenko, same area at ZMA. I'm also the area rep for NATCA. Sweet. Don't wash him out please. I think he's a good one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2016 12:22
|
|