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Like I said, small minded, parochial, short sighted xenophobes.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:25
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ForeverBWFC posted:Manchester on Saturday lad! Yerp. I got your pm by the way. We're figuring out our arrangements this week so I'll get back to you, but we might be sorted already cause some of our lot have mates in the area..
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Feb 20, 2016 21:26
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Did you have a nice day out, Ober?
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Feb 20, 2016 21:29
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Guavanaut posted:On what basis? Tories are scary, this particular change just lets them off the leash.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:40
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big scary monsters posted:Did you have a nice day out, Ober?  Also I wasn't at Preston, we were loving around with our local fash today.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:48
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dispatch_async posted:
i'm a bit surprised the daughter of immigrants is voting to leave but i know very little about her other than wikipedia telling me shes the daughter of immigrants
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Feb 20, 2016 21:53
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Dabir posted:Tories are scary, this particular change just lets them off the leash. Outside the EU they don't have that plus their factions rip each other apart for awhile.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:17
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UrbicaMortis posted:Maybe but the fact Corbyn supporters swept the labour youth elections earlier this week gives me hope. It shows that at least some of the people involved with Momentum actually care about politics and understand the importance of gaining power within the institutions able to effect change. People in Labour take this not as "The youth are engaged" but "Oh god it's Militant all over again! Trotskyist infiltrators are here to destroy us all!"
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Feb 20, 2016 22:21
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Guavanaut posted:I'm not so sure that it does. The EU is a convenient scapegoat to allow the Tories to continue to be shitheads while claiming to be the 'Party of Responsibility' and opting out of any EU protections they don't like. Meaningless if Labour don't take ruthless advantage.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:21
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Jose posted:i'm a bit surprised the daughter of immigrants is voting to leave but i know very little about her other than wikipedia telling me shes the daughter of immigrants Well, aren't there certain Commonwealth groups who would be very happy if the UK would kick out all those Poles, because they take jobs that could be filled with people from the Commonwealth?
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Feb 20, 2016 22:22
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Corvo posted:The whole world may be a mess but I think the fact that we're now seeing people such as Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders arrive and gather so much support (I think Canada just voted-in a majority liberal government as well?) is a good sign that people are reaching breaking point and want some real change. Whether either of those guys can win their elections and deliver that change is another matter entirely, but I consider it a good thing that we're starting to see a shift in general attitudes. If we see another financial crisis this year, I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed that there would be so much anger and hatred against the banks and government that we'd have to see some real change anyways. While there is positivity there, at the same time a lot of places who decide they want a change end up voting for the fash. The Front National are close to being the 2nd party of France, Hungary is practically a one-party state under Fidesz, PiS in Poland are similarly "national conservative" in character, the AfD are growing in Germany, People's Party in Denmark are the 2nd largest party there now, & the Sweden Democrats are the 3rd largest party. The questions aren't "will the world change?" but "will it be the left or the right directing the change?" And I'd be lying if I said I was overflowing with optimism about it being the left, we're just poo poo at playing dirty compared to the right. Aside from SYRIZA what radical parties actually made major gains after the total failure of capitalism in 2007/08?
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Feb 20, 2016 22:25
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Fans posted:People in Labour take this not as "The youth are engaged" but "Oh god it's Militant all over again! Trotskyist infiltrators are here to destroy us all!"
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Feb 20, 2016 22:26
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, aren't there certain Commonwealth groups who would be very happy if the UK would kick out all those Poles, because they take jobs that could be filled with people from the Commonwealth? You are not going to have a good time in this thread.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:31
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Renaissance Robot posted:Meaningless if Labour don't take ruthless advantage. only Horselord has the answer GaussianCopula posted:Well, aren't there certain Commonwealth groups who would be very happy if the UK would kick out all those Poles, because they take jobs that could be filled with people from the Commonwealth? we love the polish they are good at the poo poo jobs we illegally underpay them for
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Feb 20, 2016 22:33
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forkboy84 posted:Aside from SYRIZA what radical parties actually made major gains after the total failure of capitalism in 2007/08?
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Feb 20, 2016 22:37
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Spangly A posted:only Horselord has the answer Is it gulags?
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Feb 20, 2016 22:38
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Renaissance Robot posted:Is it gulags? It's never not Gulags.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:43
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forkboy84 posted:While there is positivity there, at the same time a lot of places who decide they want a change end up voting for the fash. The Front National are close to being the 2nd party of France, Hungary is practically a one-party state under Fidesz, PiS in Poland are similarly "national conservative" in character, the AfD are growing in Germany, People's Party in Denmark are the 2nd largest party there now, & the Sweden Democrats are the 3rd largest party. The questions aren't "will the world change?" but "will it be the left or the right directing the change?" And I'd be lying if I said I was overflowing with optimism about it being the left, we're just poo poo at playing dirty compared to the right. Aside from SYRIZA what radical parties actually made major gains after the total failure of capitalism in 2007/08? That's enlightening, I had no idea of the situation in the countries that you mentioned. It's probably a completely unrealistic theory on my part, but I just can't help but think that given the rise of Corbyn/Sanders in the UK/USA now, that if we have another financial crisis this year like we keep being warned about, that it's almost like the perfect opportunity for them to sweep in and actually make some big changes. The world might not follow suit but if two global powerhouses did stray off the path following yet another collapse of the global economy, you might see others follow suit. On the other hand however, who knows how the more threatening countries around the globe would assess and react to such a situation.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:46
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I was going to vote to remain but if leaving the EU means fewer foreign posters without the appropriate post skills swamping this thread then I'll gladly be joining the leave camp.
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Feb 20, 2016 22:53
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Guavanaut posted:Accelerationism is where you deliberately make things worse in order to force them to be better at some undisclosed point in the future, not where you try to dismantle something because you believe (or have evidence) that it's an active force for bad in the world. Leaving the EU isn't going to stop either it or us being an "active force for bad in the world". In fact it's more likely to make us even worse. And make the lives of the people here and elsewhere in the EU even worse too. How is that not accelerationism?
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Feb 20, 2016 22:53
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, aren't there certain Commonwealth groups who would be very happy if the UK would kick out all those Poles, because they take jobs that could be filled with people from the Commonwealth? Yeah but they're bigoted xenophobic dickheads, so gently caress 'em.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:01
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Yeah but they're bigoted xenophobic dickheads, so gently caress 'em.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:04
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XMNN posted:I think you meant to say they respect fundamental British values. I'm pretty sure I said exactly that.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:05
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Taear posted:Leaving the EU isn't going to stop either it or us being an "active force for bad in the world". In fact it's more likely to make us even worse. And make the lives of the people here and elsewhere in the EU even worse too. How is that not accelerationism? Pork Pie Hat posted:Yeah but they're bigoted xenophobic dickheads, so gently caress 'em. Maybe the take away lesson is that everyone is awful and the only reasonable solution is Gonzo McFee posted:Gulags.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:25
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Can people stop responding to Guassian Copula as if he isn't an insane right-wing lunatic who masturbated to Aylan Kurdi's drowned corpse? The dude is a psychopath.Taear posted:Leaving the EU isn't going to stop either it or us being an "active force for bad in the world". In fact it's more likely to make us even worse. And make the lives of the people here and elsewhere in the EU even worse too. How is that not accelerationism? Tell me how the benevolent EU is helping the Syrian refugees. Tell me how the EU is solving Ukraine crisis. The EU has become a least-one-could-do solution and it's farcical to assume the poo poo we could leave is anything like the post-WW2 utopian dream.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:41
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So where's everyone leave Britain for when we leave the EU and go full fash then?
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Feb 20, 2016 23:43
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People's Socialist Republic of Wales.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:46
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OwlFancier posted:People's Socialist Republic of Wales. The dragon is already red
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Feb 20, 2016 23:54
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Here's some :torysay: about cutting red tape around are children! https://www.gov.uk/government/news/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-changes-to-primary-assessment I'm not a teacher, but those I know have been ripping it to shreds over the past few hours.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:01
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StoneOfShame posted:So where's everyone leave Britain for when we leave the EU and go full fash then?
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Feb 21, 2016 00:01
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forkboy84 posted:The questions aren't "will the world change?" but "will it be the left or the right directing the change?" And I'd be lying if I said I was overflowing with optimism about it being the left, we're just poo poo at playing dirty compared to the right. The left have the capablity to play dirty and mean. The creation of 'socalist' third world countries/the USSR/Spanish Revolution/Ukraine free state are examples when they actually get people that have a loving spine and move forward against an authority they loath. The problem is that this is 2016 and not 1916. That same approach isn't going to work anymore, not when the flow of information is commanded by shits, not when people have access to far more luxeries to make them think of going through such a radical change and possibly sacrificing said luxery and the disenfranchisement towards politics as well does not help either. You want the left to get somewhere? They need to start being a lot more sly and cunning and to withhold their breath of ideas and stupid statements that are outdated, that are too "Radical" or "Different" that the press will be able to spin to their whim. One way is to display a center/right-wing chassis with left-wing hardware & software. Make it seem that there are a party willing to protect our brrrrrrritsh culture, to make it seem towards idiots/casual voters and old shits that they will do the unfortunate hard work that must be done. Play towards their fears and worries, make it seem that your a party full of rational people and that you are a center choice compared to the loony lefts trying to let the migrants ruin the country. Then once you get comfortable and elected, you can start to slowly tear away the tools & shortcuts from the upper-class. The first would be the likes heavy regulations and consquences for the Media and the Press so they can't get away with spewing poo poo they want and must be unbiased and post actual facts, that the owner is living here and that they are actually monitored by a NPO that has a small amount of power on journalism that isn't done by the state or companies but run by investigatory journalists and the public. the second would be decentrlization, assembly/parliaments and a mass improvement towards democracy to minimize damage of potential right-wing upper class cunts getting in again because of a bunch of south-england and countryside tory cunts voting them in mass. the third would be mass improvement in education and the fourth is to introduce rules and laws that would make it very hard for neolibertarians and right-wingers to vote on without involving the public like poor/middle voters being able to counter-act their polices that will screw them. StoneOfShame posted:So where's everyone leave Britain for when we leave the EU and go full fash then? Don't know. Possibly Finland so I can live with peeps I know. If anything else. Head to Iceland.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:05
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All I can say is David Cameron wants us to stay in the EU then clearly it's definitely going to stop the Tories loving us to death if we do what David Cameron wants.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:06
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"God could you imagine how bad it would have been if we'd left the EU" we said as the disabled were marched/wheeled into the ovens.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:07
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https://twitter.com/Peston/status/701179712303972352 That might make things a bit closer.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:09
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Tesseraction posted:All I can say is David Cameron wants us to stay in the EU then clearly it's definitely going to stop the Tories loving us to death if we do what David Cameron wants.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:21
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When there are two opposing options and both of them are bad, the logical conclusion is to look for an underlying factor. It's Tories.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:26
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XMNN posted:Yeah, but IDS, Gove, Grayling, all of UKIP etc want us out, the rear end blasting is inevitable. Clearly if we vote to stay in then all of those will lose their magical powers and no longer be able to affect us.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:26
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StoneOfShame posted:So where's everyone leave Britain for when we leave the EU and go full fash then? I got out ahead of the game and the Netherlands seems OK so far but I'll probably move again at some point. Probably north, it's a bit flat here and doesn't really get cold enough. e: good for cycling though. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 21, 2016 |
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Feb 21, 2016 00:28
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Tesseraction posted:Clearly if we vote to stay in then all of those will lose their magical powers and no longer be able to affect us. Clearly if we vote to leave then they won't immediately take advantage of their new freedom to openly murder us in the streets.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:35
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We are hosed if we stay in and we are hosed if we stay out. Whoever wins, we lose. But at the least I can say "I told you so" back in 2014 while I push a tied up tory voter through a loving wood saw machine.
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Feb 21, 2016 00:43
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