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You're not a bad GM. You have terrible players. Maybe ask them to 100% close all their other web tabs.
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Feb 21, 2016 14:05
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alg posted:You're not a bad GM. You have terrible players. Seconding the "terrible players" answer: They just don't want to play the same type of campaign as you. It might be worth talking to them about your concerns, or they might just be bad players and you'd be better off not DMing or the group.
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Feb 21, 2016 14:09
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nothing to seehere posted:Seconding the "terrible players" answer: They just don't want to play the same type of campaign as you. It might be worth talking to them about your concerns, or they might just be bad players and you'd be better off not DMing or the group. I dunno if I posted it here but I tried that, asking my Pilot over steam what he'd like to see in the rpg. Maybe space combat? I told him I was writing some on for him because I knew that's what he wanted to do. His response was "well I don't know anything about space combat" 
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Feb 21, 2016 15:12
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Maybe he's a core worlds space trucker who's never needed to see combat as he plies his wares from world to world? Or he's just an idiot.
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Feb 21, 2016 15:58
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Zodack posted:Just got out of the second session with my EotE group. Find new players, except for the one who was into it. Maybe the other one who talked, as long as neither is one of the ones only interested in his character's narrow area of focus. I have played really excellent games over Skype with MapTool and Roll20; it can definitely lead to players doing RPGs as one activity among a number of games and tabs, but that's on them, not you.
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Feb 21, 2016 16:10
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Zodack posted:I dunno if I posted it here but I tried that, asking my Pilot over steam what he'd like to see in the rpg. Maybe space combat? I told him I was writing some on for him because I knew that's what he wanted to do. To me it sounds like he didn't understand the rules (or was too lazy to read them). Maybe take a page out of the beginner box and explain it step by step as it's happening.
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Feb 21, 2016 17:08
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Unfortunately I can't find new players - the group is four of my oldest friends. It's a dilemma I more or less saw coming, but it's been a few years since we last played an RPG (I GM'd, two of them played Dawn of War while it wasn't their turn), so I was hoping they were tempered a bit. Right now they are definitely more engaged, but it's still got that... "this is a videogame" feel to them. One player seemed to build his character solely for Obligation. The Pilot, now a prisoner of a mini-BBEG, told the Doctor not to take the ship to come rescue them because "he might damage it".  The issue is I'm either not pacing things right and the hooks for certain players aren't coming up. I agree they aren't great players, but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to improve my sessions to where there is a little bit for everyone. This last one we had a great RP with the Obligation of the Doctor, and the Pilot tried to RP more, but it was obvious that the group was tunnel visioning on the "main quest" as if this were some kind of video game. I can go into specifics but I don't want to once again make giant blog-post dumps in the thread. nelson posted:To me it sounds like he didn't understand the rules (or was too lazy to read them). Maybe take a page out of the beginner box and explain it step by step as it's happening. Likely I will do this. In combat a few of my players didn't even know they had one action and one maneuver, even though I tried to show what you can do in combat with the NPCs. It's just a case of "I won't read the rules and everything will work out", I think. Drone posted:Maybe he's a core worlds space trucker who's never needed to see combat as he plies his wares from world to world? His background is "ace Imperial pilot who became the captain of a Star Destroyer, who was subsequently sold out to the Rebellion". Obligation is Betrayal. Nelson's got it right - too lazy to read the rules. I'm not sure if they think that it's the GM's job to tell them how to do everything (I am more than happy to explain rules to them they don't understand, but the core book exists for a reason).
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Feb 21, 2016 23:27
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Zodack posted:Hey thread, I'm in a hole! I should keep digging, right? That's what I need to do, dig more.
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Feb 21, 2016 23:49
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Zodack posted:Right now they are definitely more engaged, but it's still got that... "this is a videogame" feel to them. One player seemed to build his character solely for Obligation. The Pilot, now a prisoner of a mini-BBEG, told the Doctor not to take the ship to come rescue them because "he might damage it". Zodack posted:His background is "ace Imperial pilot who became the captain of a Star Destroyer, who was subsequently sold out to the Rebellion". Obligation is Betrayal. Nelson's got it right - too lazy to read the rules. I'm not sure if they think that it's the GM's job to tell them how to do everything (I am more than happy to explain rules to them they don't understand, but the core book exists for a reason). Are you sure he sold out to the Rebellion? Or was he kicked out for being absolute poo poo?
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Feb 22, 2016 00:41
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Zodack posted:Unfortunately I can't find new players - the group is four of my oldest friends. It's a dilemma I more or less saw coming, but it's been a few years since we last played an RPG (I GM'd, two of them played Dawn of War while it wasn't their turn), so I was hoping they were tempered a bit. You can always find new players. Always. If it were an live game it'd be harder to recruit for, but you can always trawl for interested recruits from somewhere, especially with an online game. If you are having trouble finding a way to get them to engage, and they are not at least meeting you half-way, you are putting too much effort into a hobby. edit: If people get annoyed about being dropped/the game getting larger (with motivated people to fuel motivation), that is actually their problem to bring up with you. Also, ask them if they are interested in playing, obviously. If they are friends (who play other poo poo while a game is on), they might just be going along with this out of a sense of obligation, which is a good reason to inject new blood into a group dynamic, while I'm rambling about bullshit. karmicknight fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 01:18
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Yeah, gently caress your friends. Show them how important Star Wars is to you and stay at home on roll20. Edit: Alternatively, you might try photocopying the dice rules and combat rules. Starship combat rules are pretty clunky anyway so I wouldn't put in starship combat encounters until everyone gets the basics. Also, I assume since they haven't read the core rulebook they don't own it. So if you're really feeling the urge to prepare, instead of photocopying the rules you could write them out step by step / quick reference style and hand them out. Hairy Right Hook fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 01:22
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One way or another all my players have access to the core book and some of the source books, too. They had access from at least two weeks before the first session. I know they want to play because I talked with each of them about it, they seemed really excited from the onset. The strange thing is that no one is annoyed, they're just incredibly passive. I know this is a "give me a bigger shovel, I'm digging this whole as hard as I can" scenario, but I'm going to stick with them in the vain hope that things get better. I might intentionally make their Obligations trigger next session just to give them more incentive to get into the world. I don't plan to burn myself out, so if it continues to be a languid awful mess I'm going to talk with them and encourage them to contribute more. Savidudeosoo posted:Are you sure he sold out to the Rebellion? Or was he kicked out for being absolute poo poo? The backstory he wrote is that the Rebellion bribed his commanding officer into drawing his Star Destroyer out into empty space, where he was ambushed by the Rebellion. Most of his men were killed, he was captured, tortured and left for dead. Presumably he was tortured so hard they didn't lock him up so he just walked into their hangar, half dead, and stole an A-wing. Now he's a "cynical smuggler" who hates the Empire and the Rebellion. But the Empire more, because, you know, they're the bad guys. Zodack fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 02:39
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Zodack posted:The backstory he wrote is that the Rebellion bribed his commanding officer into drawing his Star Destroyer out into empty space, where he was ambushed by the Rebellion. Most of his men were killed, he was captured, tortured and left for dead. Presumably he was tortured so hard they didn't lock him up so he just walked into their hangar, half dead, and stole an A-wing. Now he's a "cynical smuggler" who hates the Empire and the Rebellion. But the Empire more, because, you know, they're the bad guys. I mean, it's an interesting backstory at the very least. Not sure if the Rebellion does much tourturing, though.
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Feb 22, 2016 03:49
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Savidudeosoo posted:I mean, it's an interesting backstory at the very least. Not sure if the Rebellion does much tourturing, though. Yeah umm, I don't really picture the star wars universe as having a lot of morally grey 'the good guys torture dudes' thing but each to their own i guess.
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Feb 22, 2016 03:59
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Zodack, sit down with your players, on Skype or in person, and discuss the problems you are having. If they want to play a video game style murder hobo game, and you dont,then you all need to come to a concensus. Ideally they all tell you that they are up for working with you, but it's certainly possible that they just don't want to play the same game you do. It's not worth your time and preparation to run a game that you don't enjoy, so if they aren't down, find another system or a new group of players. If they do want to play a murder hobo game, you can make that work in EotE or AoR style. For EotE, the Hutt Cartel/Black Sun/some other organization has contracted them to go around cleaning up messes. Think of it like the Hunter's Guild in Phantasy Star. For AoR, you can do what I did, form them into a Rebel Covert Ops strike team, and give them a briefing at the start of each session with a clear objective. I did a mediocre Admiral Ackbar impression and sent them on their way. Most importantly, ask questions of your players' motivations and backgrounds. How did they end up here? Why are they working together? Who betrayed them to the Empire/rebellion? Etc, etc. Encourage them to set goals within the group and in the greater galactic scheme of things. REWARD THEM FOR ROLEPLAYING. Make sure they know that you're here to find out what their story is, not to murder them at every chance. Just don't stress yourself out if it doesn't work. Seriously, lovely RPG players are dime a dozen.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:07
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Zodack posted:Right now they are definitely more engaged, but it's still got that... "this is a videogame" feel to them. Then honestly, it sounds like you have three options, listed here in order of priority as far as I see it: 1.) Have a frank, open talk with all of them about how this Is Not A Video Game and shouldn't be treated as such. I mean you don't have to be all "this is serious business" since that just makes you come across as a tremendous geeklord, but they need to understand that in this RPG system specifically, the focus is very heavily on the story and not on the mechanics. This is also going to be the hardest sell, since I know the type of metagaming min-maxers that you're talking about, and it's pretty much impossible to break them out of this mindset. But especially if they're the types who are literally playing Dawn of War in between their turns, that tells me that they aren't really there for the RPG at all and that they're just going through the motions because you're their buddy. This isn't on you, it's on them -- they just aren't that interested. Alternatively, play Dark Heresy or one of the other 40K RPG's? Maybe that will hook them more? 2.) Find a new group. You mentioned this is impossible, so But you should seriously explore the option of either handing over the GMing to another one of the group, or just stop playing tabletop RPG's with them altogether and do other activities with them instead.3.) Change your style to match theirs. Give them a video-game-in-paper form. Certainly possible, but probably difficult with the FFG SW system and, frankly, soul-crushing as a GM and you should very much Not Do This. Zodack posted:The backstory he wrote is that the Rebellion bribed his commanding officer into drawing his Star Destroyer out into empty space, where he was ambushed by the Rebellion. Most of his men were killed, he was captured, tortured and left for dead. Presumably he was tortured so hard they didn't lock him up so he just walked into their hangar, half dead, and stole an A-wing. Now he's a "cynical smuggler" who hates the Empire and the Rebellion. But the Empire more, because, you know, they're the bad guys. This is the worst backstory I've ever read, and I used to play Star Trek Online. Is this guy 12? TheTofuShop posted:REWARD THEM FOR ROLEPLAYING. Also, goddamn, THIS. The EotE/AoR/F&D system explicitly tells the GM to use this as a mechanic to get people more engaged, by throwing out extra XP for fulfilling story-based goals, roleplaying their obligation, and just good roleplaying in general. Make sure your party knows this -- it may not sink in at first, but when it comes time for you to distribute XP, remind them that you told them this and then see what they do when you award the one guy in the group who does actually roleplay with slightly more points. This isn't you being a dick GM, this is you literally following the rules of the game as they were meant.
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Feb 22, 2016 08:06
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Drone posted:This is the worst backstory I've ever read, and I used to play Star Trek Online. Is this guy 12? I do enjoy the fact that the Rebellion, a group known for having scarce resources, apparently leaves the few ships it has unguarded and easy to steal. Also that they would waste resources and risk lives attacking a Star Destroyer for no apparent reason. Maybe Ackbar was just having a bad day?
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Feb 22, 2016 08:16
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Doesn't the Imperial Navy have like tens of thousands of Star Destroyers?
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Feb 22, 2016 08:27
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Drone posted:Doesn't the Imperial Navy have like tens of thousands of Star Destroyers? Probably? I know there's like 24 per Sector Group. But even if they just had thousands, attacking one just to destroy it is a very questionable tactic.
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Feb 22, 2016 08:40
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Also how do you smuggle things in a stolen A-Wing
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Feb 22, 2016 08:42
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Drone posted:Also how do you smuggle things in a stolen A-Wing Maybe as a drug mule? Small time Spice hustler?
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Feb 22, 2016 09:11
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Drone posted:Also how do you smuggle things in a stolen A-Wing Data smuggling is just as viable as more tangible cargo.
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Feb 22, 2016 09:47
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With the HoloNet under Imperial control, running a sneakernet in a bunch of zippy starfighters actually sounds pretty clever a deal.
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Feb 22, 2016 11:01
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I can understand sticking with bad players if they are your friends. Never ever play with random people from the Internet or Roll20. Sounds like it's time to have a chat with your players. They might just be unaware of whats going on.
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Feb 22, 2016 13:08
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alg posted:I can understand sticking with bad players if they are your friends. Never ever play with random people from the Internet or Roll20. Sometimes that's the only option  Is there still any interest in a goon EU-time zone Roll20 game? I feel like that's been a thing that's been close to happening a few times but then falls apart for whatever reason, mostly around questions of scheduling and who would want to GM -- I think the interest was definitely there last time though! Drone fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 15:01
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I'd play - I think we have a decent amount of people who would play- but as you said, someone needs to GM.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:19
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alg posted:I can understand sticking with bad players if they are your friends. Never ever play with random people from the Internet or Roll20. I have had more luck playing with random people from the internet (well, from SA) than with my friends.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:28
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Anyone have any recommendations for building Rylo Kylie the Kaminoan? So far I have her as a colonist performer, and an alternate version that's a big game hunter, but I'm a baby at this system so I don't know whether there's some specialization out there that's going to
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Feb 22, 2016 19:17
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Saturnine Aberrance posted:Anyone have any recommendations for building Rylo Kylie the Kaminoan? So far I have her as a colonist performer, and an alternate version that's a big game hunter, but I'm a baby at this system so I don't know whether there's some specialization out there that's going to Literally all that matters is what starting career has the Signature Abilities you want. You can add any other specializations that you want in generation and after.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:42
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Drone posted:This is the worst backstory I've ever read, and I used to play Star Trek Online. Is this guy 12? The rest of the character's backstories aren't much better, but they're new to having to write "good" ones, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I can go into "depth" if anyone is curious, but we have: the aforementioned Pilot who was betrayed by the Empire; an HK-model assassin droid who was memory wiped so many times that assassination is all he knows how to do (that's it, that's all there is); a Falleen Entrepeneur that was smuggled off of Falleen by the same admiral that betrayed the Pilot and is being blackmailed by this admiral who controls all of his on-planet assets; and a LOM model protocol droid who is a doctor but has a faulty memory circuit and malfunctions a lot, seeking to restore his lost memory. Also I have made it known to them that there are experience rewards for roleplaying, and have actually already awarded one of them a bonus for good roleplaying last session. It might start to be less appealing because at the moment I, uh, am giving out a small amount of bonus EXP for... being on time to the session? The Falleen is always half an hour late but he has been like that since we met. The Pilot was also late last weekend, but it was allegedly beyond his control. I'll try to stack that with the good roleplaying bonus because honestly someone being late inconveniences everyone, whereas players not role-playing only serves to stagnate the story and make their character boring. Drone posted:Also how do you smuggle things in a stolen A-Wing Oh, the group has a YT-2400 they named Legitimate Business, which was one of the highlights of character creation. However he has been trying to smuggle a single crate of deathsticks he bought on a mid-rim planet and was taken aback to discover that buying things at their listed price doesn't always guarantee you can just sell them for more. His character is supposed to be in his late fifties now, so maybe he spent twenty or so years running a crate at a time in the A-wing, haha. I record my sessions and play them back so I can try to improve myself. I'm still reeling over the mini-meltdown my party had over paying 100 credits between the four of them to dock their ship. Thanks all for your advice as usual.
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Feb 22, 2016 20:28
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Zodack posted:
One common trope of EotE is that the PCs are just one more big score away from being able to stop endangering their lives for cash, but the constant drain of credits and the inevitable double-crosses and botched jobs keep them from doing so. That might be very dissatisfying for them if the loss of 25 credits (can you even get death sticks for 25 credits?) is a bridge too far for them. I worry that your lovely players are going to give you a complex about not being a good GM. To me, it sounds as though you are bending over backwards to accommodate them and then wondering whether you should actually try literally snapping your own vertebrae rather than just bending.
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Feb 22, 2016 20:40
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Here is some standard conflict management advice: 1) Have everyone frame things in terms of goals. Your goal might be to serve up a campaign setting that gets to fun places, is tailored for the PCs, and isn't railroaded but perhaps has a variety of rail-like options for them to choose to take for legs of the adventure if they wish, or they can go after the campaign objectives in their own way. Their goals might be to gain power and wealth for their characters and will prefer the path of least resistance, be risk-averse, etc. If everyone knows eachother's goals, even if in the past you've been butting heads, it can help to distill and understand what each side wants and figure out how to get everyone's goals accomplished. Or it might expose a fundamental contradiction in goals (eg. "I want to tell a specific story and have expectations of the party going with specific plans later on" vs. "I want to take a sandboxy approach with my character and come upon his/her story organically with my freeform decisions"). This requires open discussion in good faith about trying to understand the other's goals and work toward removing obstructions you may have caused if it won't jeopardize your own goals. Given you're long time friends I would expect you can trust each other on this. 2) Have everyone air specific problems they've been having. For you one might be "you don't interact with the hooks I put out there and it leaves to dead air and makes me feel like I have to railroad you into something happening, which doesn't go well anyway". Maybe for them there might be one like "I feel like the quests laid before my character would not be of interest to them, and they are costly to engage in up front, so they and I don't see the motivation lining up". I'm just guessing, but the idea is to bring up your pain points with each other just so the other understands it. You both might find you can make changes to some of those to help the other out, and on others you can at least discuss around them. For instance if they balked at the docking fee, you can point out that they can't just stake free because that breaks the game world, so either come up with a solid way to get around the fees in game, because that could build into an interesting story, and also remind them to put some trust in you that these costs are investments for larger rewards later. It's very important that these are actual events and not something generalized. "There was that one time when X happened and you did Y which spoiled it for me because..." is much better than "You are always doing Y whenever I want X!". Cite specific places and times rather than drawing it up to broad characterizations of someone's actions. EDIT: To further belabor this since it's a sensitive step to take, try to frame things in the first person (and minimize 2nd person). "when this one thing happened it took me out of the game because I ..." rather than "you did that one thing and it ...". This is one of those times when rhetoric is important: when you are framing a thing to say in your head, think of the word "I" and see if you can work it in there, and scan for the words "you" and try to pare them down to a minimum. Basically try to leave accusations out of what you say, and focus on its affect on you. It keeps people from getting defensive and keeps the more important point raised which is that you're recounting this thing that happened not because it was something they did, but it was something that affected you. 3) Agree on behaviors each other will work on for the future. This isn't meant to be condescending, but the idea behind it is if you do the above two points, you can then work out behaviors that should go towards fixing things, and then you focus on staying faithful to those behaviors as a commitment. A classic example is say an employee takes a long time on their tasks because it involves some open ended problem solving, and they often get into a rut where some problems eat up a ton of their time. You might, as their manager, ask them to adopt a new behavior which is to spend, say, 30 minutes on a particular problem and if they haven't cracked it by then, to pull in a peer to share the problem with for help. Then, you focus on the behavior: if they are still going solo on problems rather than grabbing a peer after 30 minutes, get on them for that. If they are adhering to it then you can look at the results and make decisions on how effective that behavior change was. The point is you arrive to the behavior changes together and so long as it's followed, you can look at the results together and discuss your thoughts on how it went, what to do next, etc. For your case, an obvious behavior change would be for them to show up on time, engage more in the story, etc. But I'd venture you get something a little more specific out, and you should be seeking possible behavior changes that you could do which would help them with goals & pain points of their own from above. You don't have to go full councilor mode, it can be an informal set of talks, one on one or in fractured groups. Maybe announce that you're going to solicit them to write them their goals out to you individually between sessions. Ask them to think about it and frame it as you wanting to make it better for everyone as things have had a noticeable drag. But tactically speaking you want to get everyone on the same page with established goals and pain points from everyone, address anything that comes up as a direct conflict of interests, and work with those to come up with behaviors for people to adopt to try and help each other out and have more fun. Bhaal fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 21:44
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Bhaal posted:Here is some standard conflict management advice: This should be in the OP of the next GM Advice thread.
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Feb 22, 2016 21:49
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homullus posted:This should be in the OP of the next GM Advice thread. Seconded. Thanks a bunch Bhaal, those are excellent suggestions. I frequently ask "what would you like to see in the next session / what would you like to do in the RPG?" but it is apparent that I do need to be more specific, and make it less of a cursory thing.
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Feb 22, 2016 22:36
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Zodack posted:an HK-model assassin droid who was memory wiped so many times that assassination is all he knows how to do (that's it, that's all there is) I'm pretty sure that would only take one memory wiped, considering that he's an Assassin droid and programmed for ASSASSINATION. Zodack posted:Oh, the group has a YT-2400 they named Legitimate Business No, yeah, that's gold. And honesty, I would drop the group if they don't shape up soon. But that's just me.
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Feb 22, 2016 22:42
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Zodack posted:Seconded. Thanks a bunch Bhaal, those are excellent suggestions. I frequently ask "what would you like to see in the next session / what would you like to do in the RPG?" but it is apparent that I do need to be more specific, and make it less of a cursory thing. So I have a newbie question: these 3 different core books confuse me. Are they compatible together? eg. if the party wanted a jedi, smuggler, a pilot & other stereotypes across the 3 books, would it be a horrible mashup with huge power disparities or are they intended to gel? It seems like each has its own class arrangement and star-wars themed setting, but I don't know if it's interchangeable between them or if you're better off sticking to one core book per campaign. Our current problems with 5e: 1) We've played enough 3.x, thanks. Give us some fresher mechanics and more progressed design wisdom. I have looked into the dice mechanics for star wars a bit and don't understand it fully, but get the gist and recognize it is not the d20 standard trope. 2) We've grown wary of the "Linear Fighter / Quadratic Wizard" problem, we'd rather have everyone be of a similar parity so they can choose what they want for flavor and not have to worry about going way ahead / way behind. 3) We like campaign settings that the DM can either run straight or (more usually) use as a starting point to riff on. However we've been unhappy with the campaign books for 5e so far. Hoard of the Dragon Queen / Rise of Tiamat were extremely railroady that make huge blinding assumptions about the party's actions. I'm on the cusp of bringing our D&D campaign to a solid conclusion (stubbing a few chapters in Rise of Tiamat) so in about 3-5 weeks we'll be at a point where we can transition to something else. We've considered 13th age and Dungeon World and a few others, plus we have a few one-shots lined up like Fiasco which will buy some time, but we tend to go for the big epic adventures so I need to find us a new home, system-wise.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:27
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You can mix the books as far as classes. You may or may not want to consolidate the party on a single... I don't know what to call them, but EotE's Obligation, AoR's Duty, or FaD's Morality. Those 3 mechanics are basically the only thing different in each book. Any character from any book can use Duty or Obligation, but Morality I think only really works for Force users.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:33
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I'd 100% be in for a euro TZ game. I'm GMing the game for reals but actually learning more though play would be hugely beneficial. My character maaaay be aggressively thick. Just saying.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:38
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Bhaal posted:So I have a newbie question: these 3 different core books confuse me. Are they compatible together? My view is there really is no reason to buy all 3 books right away. Just pick a theme and go with it for your first campaign. Enjoy the system and get used to it. Then maybe think about mixing it up for a second campaign.
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Feb 23, 2016 00:06
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nelson posted:My view is there really is no reason to buy all 3 books right away. Just pick a theme and go with it for your first campaign. Enjoy the system and get used to it. Then maybe think about mixing it up for a second campaign. I would add to this that Edge of the Empire is probably the most approachable theme from the start. It lends itself well to just about any kind of campaign, while the other two are a bit narrower in focus. It also has the added benefit of having the most supplements available at the moment.
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Feb 23, 2016 00:16
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