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Intel&Sebastian posted:I like it better when the 12 year old with an uzi wastes her instructor Wasn't she like 8, not 12?
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Feb 23, 2016 04:09
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FAUXTON posted:Wasn't she like 8, not 12? Yeah, I was going to say, she was way younger than 12.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:14
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Talmonis posted:I worry that the local conservatives might try for jury nullification. Federal court judges wouldn't allow a defense attorney to finish the word nullification before having him tazed and threatened with contempt. I've been a fed courtroom when a lawyer started to say it, surprised the gavel didn't break before he got past "null", cleared the jury out of the courtroom and read him the riot act. Rodenthar Drothman posted:Sure, let's own guns! I'm all for it. But safety is the #1 concern, and people need to be trained a LOT more to own a gun. I once posted in TFR after a post in LF or helldump was making fun of one of them posting a picture of his 6 or 7 year old holding his Walmart tactitool AR-15 (or something). I knew TFR is just TCC but for guns but didn't know just how bad. It was about when I was 11 or 12 my father brought me to a gun show. Some guy brought in a pistol, empty clip but had a chambered. Was showing it to a guy at a table who pulled back the slide, saw the round and either slipped or just let go, it snapped shut and went off. Right into the chest of his grandson standing on the other side of the table while I was talking to him. After that my father sold his pistol collection because he felt having guns with kids was too much of a risk, even though I had standard gun safety rules already drilled into me, treat all guns as if they are loaded no matter what, never point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot, etc. The guy being made fun of of response was he was 'teaching' his daughter not to be afraid of guns. I responded that A) kids SHOULD be afraid of guns, at that age you risk them viewing it as a toy and B)it's a loving gun in the hands of a child and called someone irresponsible for pointing his gun at the wall in his house when he's 'checking' (masturbating with) his guns. That response was "how else am I supposed to dry fire to check my gun dumbass', then how my father was a pussy for selling his guns. So yeah, "responsible gun owners"  My pussy father did take me out to the middle of nowhere in the Everglades where there was a spot where peope went to fire poo poo you can't bring to a range. That's when I learned that a full auto Uzi goes from full extended clip to empty before you've fully pulled the trigger and M91/30's will nearly dislocate the shoulder of a 17 year old who hadn't fire anything harder than an M-16 before (I think thats what it was before some TFR freak chimes in)
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Feb 23, 2016 04:28
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Toasticle posted:Federal court judges wouldn't allow a defense attorney to finish the word nullification before having him tazed and threatened with contempt. I've been a fed courtroom when a lawyer started to say it, surprised the gavel didn't break before he got past "null", cleared the jury out of the courtroom and read him the riot act. (Former public defender) These guys aren't gonna nullify even in the most redneck part of OR. Rural areas hate out of towners who tell them what to do more than the government. nm fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 04:38
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The problem with guns in america is that everyone who owns a gun thinks they're one of the Responsible Gun Owners and that it's those Other Idiots who ruin it for everyone. A large number of them are wrong, but, Dunning-Kruger and all that...
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Feb 23, 2016 04:45
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If I assume a lamp is unplugged and I try to fix it and electrocute myself it's not really an accident, is it? I was being a lazy moron. You don't accidentally shoot someone unless you accidentally leave a round in the chamber and then accidentally don't check it and then accidentally point it at someone and then accidentally fire it. It's an astounding array of accidents. Kid got shot by a lazy moron. Accidents do happen but there's a meaningful distinction between that and negligence, recklessness or stupidity.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:47
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Anybody remotely sympathetic to these guys is going to know about jury nullification, and once they get empaneled, all bets are off.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:51
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marshalljim posted:Anybody remotely sympathetic to these guys is going to know about jury nullification, and once they get empaneled, all bets are off. Considering this group, I'd really like to see what sort of precautions the courts are taking to deal with the inevitable flood of SovCit legal shenanigans when the trials come.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:19
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I like it better when the 12 year old with an uzi wastes her instructor I went to a high school that had gun safety as a week course in PE. Treat every gun as if it is loaded. Do not point the gun at anything you are not ready to destroy. Do not put finger on the trigger until ready to fire. Be aware of the target, above the target, to the sides of the target, and behind the target.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:21
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there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge", only negligent discharges
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Feb 23, 2016 05:25
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Anosmoman posted:If I assume a lamp is unplugged and I try to fix it and electrocute myself it's not really an accident, is it? I was being a lazy moron. You don't accidentally shoot someone unless you accidentally leave a round in the chamber and then accidentally don't check it and then accidentally point it at someone and then accidentally fire it. It's an astounding array of accidents. Kid got shot by a lazy moron. Accidents do happen but there's a meaningful distinction between that and negligence, recklessness or stupidity. There's been a general push in the firearms community to refer to these incidents exclusively as "negligent discharges", as 99.99% of them occur due to some kind of negligence on the part of the gun owner or handler. It's exceedingly rare for a gun to discharge truly accidentally with nobody at fault, always due to a mechanical problem with the gun.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:26
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Anosmoman posted:If I assume a lamp is unplugged and I try to fix it and electrocute myself it's not really an accident, is it? I was being a lazy moron. You don't accidentally shoot someone unless you accidentally leave a round in the chamber and then accidentally don't check it and then accidentally point it at someone and then accidentally fire it. It's an astounding array of accidents. Kid got shot by a lazy moron. Accidents do happen but there's a meaningful distinction between that and negligence, recklessness or stupidity. This is why their called negligent discharges, not accidental discharges. With modern firearms kept in good working order, there is next to no chance that a round is going to be fired other than having the trigger pulled. It's not an accidental discharge when you don't properly check your hoslter when securing your weapon and your shirt gets bunched up there and actuates the trigger and puts a round through your rear end, and it's not an accidental discharge when you're clearing a weapon with your finger on the trigger and you end up putting one downrange/uprange/into the ground. But negligent discharge implies that someone is responsible (they are), where accidental implies theres nothing that could have been done to prevent the situation (there always is).
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Feb 23, 2016 05:30
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CannonFodder posted:Or the 4 year old pulls the pistol out of his dad's holster and sends a round through dad's middle, killing him. poo poo I learned this in like elementary school, but I also learned how to tell all the venomous poo poo from the non-venomous poo poo, by far the latter has served me more. Sure, I spent tons of time during summer break plinking with a bolt-action, no-magazine .22 and a bunch of rounds in a woodblock back in the day (not as cool as black powder though) but I eventually grew out of the whole gun thing somewhere in adolescence. It's like trains and steampunk where some people just don't grow out of guns, though. It's just a much more dangerous hobby 
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Feb 23, 2016 05:38
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I am an independent, I reliably vote left and view myself as a progressive. Anyway, you guys on some crazy bloodthirsty bullshit like earlier in this thread. Stop making reasonable people hate progressives plz? *edit* yes I know dumb people are loving up the world. YEAH PUT EM TO THE WALL Good job guys
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Feb 23, 2016 05:55
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BRJohnson posted:crazy bloodthirsty bullshit Its like you don't even remember LF
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Feb 23, 2016 06:03
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Grundulum posted:Women get fewer rolls of paper? That seems weird. I meant one a week for males, sorry.
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Feb 23, 2016 06:03
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:Its like you don't even remember LF Probably mostly a reflection on me and my choices in life but this is where I come to find intellectual peers. ... uh
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Feb 23, 2016 06:05
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woof. anyway, what's the current situation? everyone just cooling their heels until they get their day in court?
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Feb 23, 2016 06:09
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Current situation is the scene is being processed, arraignments are a week or two out, charges / defendants will be updated in a probable superseding indictment sometime in March. So not much public right now.
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Feb 23, 2016 06:19
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Do we have a timeline for opening up the reserve again, or any estimates?
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Feb 23, 2016 06:33
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quote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/pete_santilli_urges_court_to_r.html#incart_2box
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Feb 23, 2016 06:37
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theflyingorc posted:Do we have a timeline for opening up the reserve again, or any estimates? The last document published about the state of the refuge (the one that revealed the poo poo trenches) said I think 21 days estimated for the FBI to finish combing the scene for evidence. After that it'll be time to actually start cleaning up and returning to business as usual.
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Feb 23, 2016 06:39
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Jumpingmanjim posted:They argued there's new information that warrants a review, including the recent removal of all his firearms from the Ohio apartment he shares with his girlfriend and an FBI search of his rental car that found no firearms present. ... (15 seconds of search) http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/02/02/bundy-locked-down-but-henchmen-make-bail.htm quote:U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight pointed to one episode where Santilli claimed he buried unregistered guns in his backyard in California to avoid surrendering them under a restraining order that was later dismissed. quote:In another episode, Santilli said that if federal agents showed up at his house in the middle of the night, he would shoot them. And in a third episode, Santilli called the feds "pussies" and said, "I'll take care of your families." It's adorable that he thinks that he had a chance. 
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Feb 23, 2016 07:23
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Entropic posted:The problem with guns in america is that everyone who owns a gun thinks they're one of the Responsible Gun Owners and that it's those Other Idiots who ruin it for everyone. A large number of them are wrong, but, Dunning-Kruger and all that... That's why I don't own guns. I don't loving trust myself with that responsibility.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:27
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I guess it's too on-the-nose to call it a negligent discharge instead of an accidental discharge when your militia buddy puts one in his own kid. I'll be real interested to find out if 3% cowards muster even the slacktivism to donate money to her recovery, since they've been revealed as all talk.
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Feb 23, 2016 09:56
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Kilo147 posted:That's why I don't own guns. I don't loving trust myself with that responsibility. I am not entirely sure I would put it that way but the stats are pretty darn convincing. If you own a firearm, the odds of a negative event go up dramatically - almost as dramatically as going from not having a shower to having a shower. I am willing to risk a shower for its benefits. I am unwilling to risk a firearm for its benefits.
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Feb 23, 2016 11:00
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people who own a firearm are way much more likely to be shot with their own gun than people who don't
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Feb 23, 2016 12:32
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FAUXTON posted:poo poo I learned this in like elementary school, but I also learned how to tell all the venomous poo poo from the non-venomous poo poo, by far the latter has served me more. Sure, I spent tons of time during summer break plinking with a bolt-action, no-magazine .22 and a bunch of rounds in a woodblock back in the day (not as cool as black powder though) but I eventually grew out of the whole gun thing somewhere in adolescence. Which is what the real problem with the gun debate in the country comes down to: large numbers of childish adults demanding to keep their hobby of handling deadly weapons. Sure, you get all kinds of platitiudes of defense and freedom, but what it all comes down to is people demanding that they get to keep playing with their toys no matter how dangerous they are. It's the antithesis of responsibility.
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Feb 23, 2016 13:09
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chitoryu12 posted:The last document published about the state of the refuge (the one that revealed the poo poo trenches) said I think 21 days estimated for the FBI to finish combing the scene for evidence. After that it'll be time to actually start cleaning up and returning to business as usual. Yeah, they probably could get it done faster but the militants also said that they set traps. Even if they're lying as a final "gently caress you", the FBI can't take any chances (plus they are crazy enough to do it).
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Feb 23, 2016 14:29
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am not entirely sure I would put it that way but the stats are pretty darn convincing. If you own a firearm, the odds of a negative event go up dramatically - almost as dramatically as going from not having a shower to having a shower. Yup. Odds of someone breaking into my house armed and willing to kill me for my tv are way the gently caress lower than an 'accidental discharge', and gently caress me taking a life over a $200 piece of electronics. Real life burglars aren't willing to die over it either, there's a reason they try and target houses/apartments when you're not home. I'm a 3rd Dan black belt. I had a real teacher, the he's teaching us how to end a fight not 'win' a fight. The advanced classes for black belts the night we did how to handle a mugging he gave one of us a wooden knife and had each of us show how we would handle a mugger. Then had one of us mug him. He reached into his pocket, handed over his wallet then asked us what's in it that's worth either dying or killing for. Which in one of D&D gunchats made me a pussy of course. Some kid did break into my apartment once when I lived in a lovely neighborhood, got two iPads and gave them to the 15 year old girl next door to try and sell. Of course she turned one on and I saw it on the find my device app, called the cops and got it back. I went to juvie court to advocate her getting put in a program and getting community service because I'm not going to help ruin the life of a stupid 15 year old over an iPad. Also a pussy.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:08
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Toasticle posted:Also a pussy. The sooner the whole "Alpha Bro" poo poo dies, the happier a whole lot of us will be.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:14
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Toasticle posted:Yup. Odds of someone breaking into my house armed and willing to kill me for my tv are way the gently caress lower than an 'accidental discharge', and gently caress me taking a life over a $200 piece of electronics. Real life burglars aren't willing to die over it either, there's a reason they try and target houses/apartments when you're not home. I wonder how many of these guys grew up in the 80s when "the end of civilization" was the theme du jour for about a million lovely movies. Gangs gone wild. Schools breaking down. Crime everywhere. Cops can't keep up. Judges letting criminals off on technicalities. Etc.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:42
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Gorilla Salad posted:I wonder how many of these guys grew up in the 80s when "the end of civilization" was the theme du jour for about a million lovely movies. Admittedly, I had to get over these exact biases. Granted, living near Baltimore with it's nightly shootings isn't exactly Mayberry, but still.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:48
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Talmonis posted:The sooner the whole "Alpha Bro" poo poo dies, the happier a whole lot of us will be. I'm not sure it's something that can die. It'll just take a different form, maybe in a generation it'll be David Cameron types just plundering the nation and claiming the right to do so by dint of the colors of his scarf.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:54
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Don't forget the other end of it where they watch too much Escape From New York and think the President for Life is going to take away their red meat, alcohol, guns but make Christianity compulsory and all crimes are death sentences by other means.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:55
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oohhboy posted:Don't forget the other end of it where they watch too much Escape From New York and think the President for Life is going to take away their red meat, alcohol, guns but make Christianity compulsory and all crimes are death sentences by other means. That was Escape from L.A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZCypUOH8js
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Feb 23, 2016 16:03
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oohhboy posted:Don't forget the other end of it where they watch too much Escape From New York and think the President for Life is going to take away their red meat, alcohol, guns but make Christianity compulsory and all crimes are death sentences by other means. Either watching too much Escape from New York, or Bloomberg giving a speech. "I'm going to take away anything that gives you a small amount of joy and taste in your food." He says, cackling over his proposal to ban Salt, Butter and Soda.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:03
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Talmonis posted:The sooner the whole "Alpha Bro" poo poo dies, the happier a whole lot of us will be. I realize it doesn't have any basis in actual science in the first place, but we've known since the 70s that the whole "alpha wolf" concept is a myth based on shoddy research. The fact that this hasn't trickled down into public consciousness says a lot about public science education.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:08
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botany posted:I realize it doesn't have any basis in actual science in the first place, but we've known since the 70s that the whole "alpha wolf" concept is a myth based on shoddy research. The fact that this hasn't trickled down into public consciousness says a lot about public science education. The Donald Trump thread is rife with his supporters who will refer to people as "betas". It's pretty surreal.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:11
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Armyman25 posted:That was Escape from L.A. I clearly haven't watched enough of either.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:12
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