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quote:The other ray of hope is that, at long last, and after two decades, Godfather, Part III is scheduled to hit the screens around Christmas. What a Christmas gift! The whole crew is back, older and perhaps wiser, continuing the great saga of the Corleone family. lmaooooooo
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Feb 22, 2016 14:53
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Woah woah woah. Hold up a minute. Is he trashing the Sergio Leone / Clint Eastwood collaborations here? Surely the depths of his depravity know no bounds.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:53
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Um but the government is the mafia????
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Feb 22, 2016 14:54
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DeusExMachinima posted:I'd suggest that there's a difference between having a military at all and having a military that spends more than the next few highest military spenders all combined. It's the latter that enables mistakes on the scale of the OIF clusterfuck, not the former. Interesting backpedal, but it's stupid to think sheer proportionality matters. After all, in living memory we were spending quite a bit more but it just so happened a whole bunch of other countries were joined up and thus we were only spending a small amount over them (and sometimes less than them). Relative spending cannot be an indicator of likelihood to invade other places, or even likelihood to make a big mess.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:46
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Igiari posted:Um but the government is the mafia???? Yeah I'm not really sure he's thought through what the mafia would look like in the absence of any state to enforce laws. The fact that apparently people can apply to them for dispute resolutio- ohhhhhhhhhhh.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:52
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Okay, I promised I'd do this one tonight, so here he is. Austin Petersen of Missouri Slogan: Taking Over Government to Leave Everyone Alone Website: AustinPetersen2016.com http://www.austinpetersen.com/html/ Twitter: @the_producer14 1. Who are you and why are you running for president? About posted:Who Is Austin Petersen? There's that "classic liberal" speak that gets tossed around by libertarians and various conservatives alike. Petersen considers himself a "constitutional libertarian". He's mostly been a pundit/political hack for most of his (publicly acknowledged) career. He worked for the Libertarian National Committee in 2008, then the Atlas Economic Research Foundation (now the Atlas Network) a think tank/charity founded by Anthony Fisher, which funnels money to other local think tanks that promote Libertarian/Randian thought and Austrian economics. Seriously, I tried clicking one or two links and it didn't take long before Murry Rothbard and a bunch of other familiar names popped up. It truly is an incestuous rabbit hole of libertarianism to read up on Wikipedia. Continuing... Petersen took a job as an associate producer on Judge Napolitano’s show FreedomWatch on Fox Business. I'm sure this in no way has influenced Fox Business's decision to allow Petersen to be the third of the three libertarian candidates invited to the Libertarian debate on Stossel's show. The other two being Gary #FeelMyJohnson and John "Crazy" McAfee. After Napolitano's show got canned, Petersen went back to work as a political hack at FreedomWorks, a Tea Party think tank. He then left to found his own Libertarian group/company/thing, Stonegait LLC, a film consulting group, as well as the Libertarian rag, The Libertarian Republic. I do have to make one correction to an earlier statement. Austin Petersen also has an IMDB page, as he starred in a short film, but more importantly, his company backed, and he was Executive Producer to the movie Alongside Night, some Libertarian sci-fi wank film, I think, starring Kevin Sorbo. He's basically the more serious, more successful version of Cecil Ince, both in terms of his film career and politics. So let's see what this melon-fucker has to say on the issues. 2. Illegal immigration. Immigration posted:5. Streamline our immigration system by following updated “Ellis Island” styled protocols. Security check. Disease check. Done. You can tell this is where Petersen stopped caring, or at least we've hit the group of "issues Presidents should be concerned about, but that Libertarians aren't" because every issue before this has a nice 3-5 minute video presentation, and every policy after this is a short 2-3 sentence paragraph. 3. Middle East. National Defense & Military posted:2. Strengthen national security by reducing/ending foreign aid to nations hostile to the USA. Reconsider overseas troop deployments in areas not important to US national security, and audit the Pentagon. Reform the Veteran’s Affairs administration. Sounds like the typical Fox News Conservative Pundit talk, down to the "blood and treasure" phrasing. Though issuing "Letters of Marque and Reprisal" is a new one by me, because I didn't realize that terrorists were pirates, but I guess if we're all sovereign boats or whatever it is libertarians believe, it makes sense  Oh, and here's the accompanying YouTube video, because why wouldn't an Executive Producer make videos of everything.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_KjnAs_heE So, a pro-A-10, anti-F-35 guy; he wants to cut military spending, but maintain the strongest national defense in the world; he doesn't want cronyism in the procurement process, but will defer matters of procurement to the generals (because that always goes well); and the second person in our series to mention cyber security. Also, the video starts loving up about halfway through, flashing green and aggravating my headache, so even a professional film maker can't get his poo poo right when he's a Libertarian, I guess? He also links to a self-referential article on his pet newspaper, but I'll spare you this time. 4. Government Spending. Taxes and Spending posted:1. Reduce economic inequality by lowering barriers to entry in the marketplace, licensing, taxation, and fees. Urge congress to adopt the “Penny Plan,” across the board spending cuts of 1% per program. Abolish the existing, complicated tax code that discriminates against the most productive Americans, and replace it with a simple, flat tax at the lowest rate necessary to support the core functions of government. Seek voluntary ways to fund public services where possible, lotteries, tolls, etc. Flat tax, no licensing requirements (anyone can be a doctor!), and the "Penny Plan" which I totally didn't steal from Sean Hannity (I actually don't know who originally coined that phrase, but otherwise this section is reading like a Fox News host's talking points). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GX1V4hZpSk  Yeah, even if I didn't check his bio, I could've totally pegged this guy as having worked at Fox News.5. What is your tax plan? Since taxes were already discussed, let's post his monetary policy just for shits and giggles. Monetary Policy posted:4. Audit the Federal Reserve first. End it through competition last. Institute a Monetary Commission devoted to studying the implications of replacing central banking with “Free Banking,” and abolishing laws of legal tender. Allow gold and silver to circulate as a currency, removing them from the commodity list, and make precious metal coins free of taxation. Let digital currencies compete against Federal Reserve notes. Audit the Fed! Abolish the Fed! Gold standard, free market money, Buttcoins! Okay, we're back to libertarian loony land. And yes, there's a video! It's a 15 minute long "live stream" explaining 'What is "Free Banking"?', so I'll just link it rather than actually subject myself to the goldbug nonsense. Here it is. Have you ever hosed a melon? A former Fox News producer who's been heavily involved in Randian and Austrian Economic societies? I don't think he's met a melon he didn't Petersen's roots as a Fox News contributor and working at think-tanks really shows through, permeating and leaking into just about everything he says, it's quite unreal. His whole schtick for basically everything is "I'll form a think tank/task force/panel of experts/bullshitters to decide what to do on topic X". Half his policies are four year old discarded talking points from Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. It's like I'm reliving the 2012 Republican primaries, what the hell!? I'm starting to wonder if that Letters of Marque line isn't something he picked up from Glenn Beck, because boy does that sound like something he would say.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:38
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And I plan for the government to die on its way to its home planet.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:39
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Ratoslov posted:Where does this bizarre affection that Libertarians have for the idea of assassination come from? Between this and those silly assassination markets that pretend to be death prediction websites, it seems like they have a huge faith in assassination being both reliable and effective as a means of implementing social policy. They've trained their brains to flee in the face of social complexities, and to call the fallaciously simple non-solutions which result "lateral thinking." Imagine if you asked a 13 year old boy how they would solve the situation in Syria: "I'd send black ops super soldiers to get Putin, and that other guy." E: this would not have happened if they had just read War & Peace instead of Atlas Shrugged
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Feb 22, 2016 16:41
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YF19pilot posted:Sounds like the typical Fox News Conservative Pundit talk, down to the "blood and treasure" phrasing. Though issuing "Letters of Marque and Reprisal" is a new one by me, because I didn't realize that terrorists were pirates, but I guess if we're all sovereign boats or whatever it is libertarians believe, it makes sense Reissuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal is an old Ron Paul idea, iirc.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:47
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Thing about letters of marque is it requires that the other nation is willing to go along with your rather flimsy excuse to sink their boats. Not like any wars would start that way, no siree.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:54
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Also, feel free to explore these guys' websites. I'm skipping quite a bit to keep the posts manageable, like their healthcare policies: Marc Feldman has not expressed an opinion on this issue. Cecil Ince, Actor Extraordinaire, has this (poorly written and edited) to say: Health care posted:Ince is all too aware of the problems of Medical Expense insurance and its connection to the inflation of the cost of health care. Ince believes all those who want insurance should be able to have it and those who don’t want it should have to. Ince opposes the Federal Government having any business in the Health Care Insurance Business and supports this as a ninth amendment issue. While it is bust that Insurance was not mandated in any form the reality is most people find it as a necessity. Individuals and businesses should be free to provide such a health care benefit as a service for a fee, and individuals should be free to enter in to an agreement that will provide them with the insurance they choice while being assured that in the case of fraud they have legal protection under the law. Doctors should be free to accept of not accept any insurance if they so choice. All citizens should have health care access, this should not be legislatively mandated, and health care providers should not be denied reimbursement for services rendered. Health Care Charities and organizations should be allowed to raise funds to cover health care expenses for those who cannot afford it. Faith Based Organizations and Community Organization should be free to provide free clinics staffed by volunteers and funded by contribution. So, everyone who wants healthcare should have healthcare, access to healthcare, and their claims shouldn't be denied; BUT we shouldn't legislate or create regulations that would enforce this. Former Governor and EXTREME Sportsman Gary #FeelsMyJohnson Johnson has not expressed an opinion on this issue. Considering his other TotallyNotARepublicanGuys stance on other issues, probably "Repeal and Replace" Obamacare. Steve "Not actually a Kerbal" Kerbel has not expressed an opinion on this issue. John McAfee has...  Darryl W. Perry has this to to say: 5. Health Care posted:I support the existence of free-market certifications and believe such certifications are helpful to those looking for qualified health care. Okay, jrodefeld, we got it the first time you told us. How's that new Lyme disease treatment your local witch doctor gave you going? If nothing else, I implore you to visit this guy's website, it is a cornucopia of crazy libertarian/free-man ramblings, including being Pro-Secessionist. Austin " I totally got that third debate slot through merit and not because I'm still chummy with the guys at FBN Petersen says:Restoring Health Freedom posted:9. Overturn Obamacare. Seek out market alternatives to problems of health and wellness. Repeal and replace. Basically, we've got too lazy to write about it, totally-not-a-Republican "repeal and replace", and "shamans are market alternatives we shouldn't regulate shamans". Nolanar posted:Reissuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal is an old Ron Paul idea, iirc. The more I think about it, the more I think I may have heard it from Glenn Beck, and I know he cribs ideas from other Libertarians all the time. If jrodefeld was more accusatory and conspiracy minded, I would almost think he was Glenn Beck. jrode, are you one of Beck's radio "co-hosts"?
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Feb 22, 2016 17:06
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One thing I see again and again in those writeups lumped in with the military stuff is "end foreign aid". Welp, sorry to all you fuckers who rely on US/UNHCR aid to survive, you go against the libertarian ethos, so you're just gonna have to starve to death for the greater good. Thems the breaks, so please remember that the whole "right to life, liberty, and property" thing only applies to certain people.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:44
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Nolanar posted:Reissuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal is an old Ron Paul idea, iirc. You do remember correctly. Paul the elder brought it up as a completely reasonable and not-at-all insane alternative response to 9/11.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:41
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Man, it sure is refreshing to see a libertarian holding up The Mafia as an example of pure and good libertarian values. Whenever a libertarian says "extortion rackets wouldn't exist in libertopia" then we just need to point out that Rothbard disagrees and believes that they're actually A Good Thing, a feature of libertarian paradise is to pay money to a small group of thugs. And it makes internal sense; you voluntarily sign a contract, and now you're bound by that contract to pay up or they'll gently caress up your shop. Nevermind that my friend Bruno here was pointing a gun at you while you signed that contract, he wasn't really going to shoot you, it was just a funny joke! We weren't initiating any violence at all, clearly! Naturally paying taxes to a small group of thugs who live like kings and provide no services in return is better than paying taxes to a government because, uh...
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Feb 22, 2016 20:01
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One thing worth noting about that Godfather vs Goodfellas comparison that Rothbard glosses over: Goodfellas (which Rothbard sees as a vicious smear on poor defenseless organized criminals) is based on the non-fiction book Wiseguy, while the Godfather (which Rothbard sees as a very good case study on free market justice) is based on a fiction novel by the same name. Also, he wrote that paean to mafiosi roughly one year before his "crush criminals, let police dispense street justice" article on Right Wing Populism. Either he had a very rapid change of opinion, or there is something else driving his logic. Hmmmmmmmm
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Feb 22, 2016 20:18
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Hi guys, I figure this is the thread to post this: How do I talk my housemate/landlord about inflation, the Federal Reserve, and the gold standard? He's a measured and sensible person, doesn't think of taxes as a trampling of his rights, and he has linked me to videos that helped me see the objectives of sustainability in a new and better detailed light, and I have shared e.g. Bertrand Russel's In Defense of Idleness, which he considers correct. We are both interested in making the world better for everyone, but for some reason he is fixated on the Federal Reserve, and even the practice of fractional reserve banking itself! I think he's just looking at a system that allows Owners to grift way too much off the work of others, essentially just because they were in the right place at the right time, and searching for a source of the disconnect. He sees the people enabled to print money, and the apparent revolving door with Wall Street, and pegs it as a scheme to hand out money to banks at the expense of the average citizen. Other choice rhetorical questions he has posed to me: "If gold is just some shiny metal, why did FDR confiscate all the gold and keep it in Fort Knox?" "And who gets the interest from those loans? The Fed's shareholders." Yes, he keeps telling me that the Federal Reserve is a publicly traded corporation with shareholders. I asked him who the shareholders are, and he said something about can you even find the shareholders of Goldman Sachs, so I Googled it and found Goldman Sachs' primary shareholders. I told him it's an independent entity founded by the Congress, but he still attests that it is owned by shareholders who receive dividends, and that they are presumably the same people that run the banks that it lends to. He seems to think that fractional reserve banking is essentially fraud? I tried to explain that even with bitcoin there would have to be fractional reserve banking, and that even with a cap on the total "currency" that can exist, every conceivable monetary system is a Ponzi scheme with maintenance costs, and that any standard is just as fiat as the next. I want to make the case to him that the money supply not growing with the population is lovely for people who don't already have a lot of money, but he seems convinced that the opposite is true. He apparently thinks of the gold bugs as populists. What the hell do I tell him?
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Feb 22, 2016 20:26
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Thanks everyone for participating in the Forums Upgrade Challenge. I said earlier that it would be a democratic vote, but in keeping with the rich intellectual tradition found at Mises.org, I am suspending democracy and instituting a benevolent dictatorship. I'll be picking the winner tonight and we'll get you set up with the upgrade of your choice.
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Feb 22, 2016 21:45
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Stinky_Pete posted:Hi guys, I figure this is the thread to post this: Maybe send him a Robert Reich video for every video he sends you?
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Feb 22, 2016 21:54
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SedanChair posted:Maybe send him a Robert Reich video for every video he sends you? Hire the GambinDRO Family to "inflate" his kneecaps with some blunt force trauma.
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Feb 22, 2016 22:02
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VitalSigns posted:If you have the political will to put people in power who want to downsize the military until it's impossible to do another Iraq, then you have the political will to just not do another Iraq regardless of the size of the military. You're putting the cart before the horse. This is really short-sighted. You have to prepare for a future that may be incrementally more interventionist by creating inertia in the right direction. Even if you love paying for capabilities you've no intent to use, are you sure that the next administration or the one after that won't be willing to use them? If we had a military that was reasonably sized and incapable of 2 theater war-making in 2003 it would've been much harder for Bush Jr. to get his Iraq adventure on. Imagine being the guy who brought back the draft one year before a reelection campaign. Of course there are no guarantees, but do you prefer a world where it's harder or easier to get OIF rolling? DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 01:09
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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I find it hilarious that so many libertarians think the hardened trained murderers for hire will work for them, and not the aggressive state that can promise steady work and pay shooting at libertarians.
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Feb 23, 2016 01:42
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paragon1 posted:I find it hilarious that so many libertarians think the hardened trained murderers for hire will work for them, and not the aggressive state that can promise steady work and pay shooting at libertarians. Fair av/post combo.
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Feb 23, 2016 01:51
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fade5 posted:One thing I see again and again in those writeups lumped in with the military stuff is "end foreign aid". No, but you see, Federal Foreign Aid is wasteful and just goes to a bunch of AIDs riddled war-lords who spend that money on guns and then attack our ships in the Arabian Sea. In Libertariland, private charities will help provide aid to those most in need, and they'll be able to get the food and water to those who really need it, because *wet, sloppy fart*. I'm going shopping this morning, but next up is Derrick Michael Reid. Hold onto your butts, this is going to be a wild one!
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Feb 23, 2016 02:17
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It's really sad how many libertarias or just general state-haters have absolutely no concept of what the government spends money on or how to put any of that spending into perspective. They'll flip out over the most inconsequential "waste" and all honestly seem to think western governments spend like 30% of their budgets on foreign aid, 60% on hand-outs to welfare queens and criminals, and everything else like roads or police or military all comes from this remaining 10%
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Feb 23, 2016 02:34
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DeusExMachinima posted:This is really short-sighted. You have to prepare for a future that may be incrementally more interventionist by creating inertia in the right direction. Even if you love paying for capabilities you've no intent to use, are you sure that the next administration or the one after that won't be willing to use them? If we had a military that was reasonably sized and incapable of 2 theater war-making in 2003 it would've been much harder for Bush Jr. to get his Iraq adventure on. Imagine being the guy who brought back the draft one year before a reelection campaign. Of course there are no guarantees, but do you prefer a world where it's harder or easier to get OIF rolling? You seem to be mixing military size, military expenditures, and military usage in weird ways. Do you believe that the US military has too many soldiers, or do you believe that it spends too much, or both? Can you quantify what would be a reasonable amount of military enlistment / expense, with reasons provided? I don't even necessarily disagree with you, your posts just seem really jumbled
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Feb 23, 2016 05:17
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DeusExMachinima posted:This is really short-sighted. You have to prepare for a future that may be incrementally more interventionist by creating inertia in the right direction. Even if you love paying for capabilities you've no intent to use, are you sure that the next administration or the one after that won't be willing to use them? If we had a military that was reasonably sized and incapable of 2 theater war-making in 2003 it would've been much harder for Bush Jr. to get his Iraq adventure on. Imagine being the guy who brought back the draft one year before a reelection campaign. Of course there are no guarantees, but do you prefer a world where it's harder or easier to get OIF rolling? There is no conceivable scenario in which we would have had a military incapable of invading Iraq in 2003, a large military is overwhelmingly popular and trying to slash it by half or more would just hand every election to neocons. I would prefer a world where we actually elect politicians who don't want to do stupid poo poo compared to losing on an anti-military platform to the people who want to start more stupid wars. Also the military is a large part of the federal budget and gutting it in order to abolish taxes on the rich like these Libertarian candidates want to do is the same as imposing crippling austerity on the economy, it's not like any of them are proposing using that money for something actually useful like infrastructure or health care or education.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:23
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Yeah it seems like the sensible thing to do with the military is to gradually draw things down and in the meantime stop pissing away so much money. We could probably still straddle the Earth like gods on two-thirds of our present budget and free up that cash to do things like fix the drat roads.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:48
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Government roads ie socialism?!
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Feb 23, 2016 05:56
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VitalSigns posted:Government roads ie socialism?! Sort of, except instead of the workers owning the means of production we get less bridge collapses and traffic congestion.
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Feb 23, 2016 06:36
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VitalSigns posted:Government roads ie socialism?! That's another thing about Libertarians. Government-created roads pre-dates Capitalism, Socialism, and loving writing. It is the literal life-line of civilization. Why, then, do Libertarians argue it's somehow a bad thing? 
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Feb 23, 2016 07:00
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Because libertarians are loving retarded Ratoslov. I know it feels like there should be a deeper answer here, and believe me we've looked. There isn't.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:07
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The general answer to questions like that is hand waving that "yeah, that's nice, but the Freed Market (pbuh) will make roads better, cheaper, more efficient, and prettier." and then scoff when you point out this has happened nowhere because roads are a perfect example of a good we all need that cannot be handled by a "pay for what you use" basis.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:56
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I apologize, I had planned on having the post for Derrick Reid up before I left for work, but I'm barely halfway through and already spent more time on him than and other two candidates combined. His poo poo is so loving dense and retarded and contradictory, it takes a lot of effort to try to decipher what the gently caress he's trying to say. He claims English is like a second language to him. I'm an EFL teacher and any of my students can form more coherent sentences and arguments than he can.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:59
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Like a second language to him? As in it isn't actually his second language?
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Feb 23, 2016 08:41
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Jizz Festival posted:Like a second language to him? As in it isn't actually his second language? He literally claims that math is his first language and that English is "like" a second language, despite it being his native language. But yet possesses "colorful vocabulary and speech patterns." At least enough to vomit impenetrable walls of text every time he wishes to express an opinion. I'm at work now, but will post the write up when I get home. e: Just got roped into speech practice. My co-workers are attempting an intervention, I think. I'll try to have a post up before midnight my time. CovfefeCatCafe fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 08:50
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YF19pilot posted:He literally claims that math is his first language and that English is "like" a second language, despite it being his native language. Wow, what a wanker.
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Feb 23, 2016 09:07
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Ratoslov posted:Wow, what a wanker. It's the sort of pseudo-intellectual superiority wankery that socially inept people in technical fields like to engage in. I was a little like that when I first showed up as a Freshman pursuing a STEM degree, but quickly learned the importance of being able to "people". Math is pure and logical. English is just a series of primordial grunts and mouth sounds chained together and called a language by the unwashed masses who don't believe in our God, math. It really comes down to the fact that they don't understand subtlety, nuance or innuendo, so they have to pretend to be superior because of it. Unfortunately, it's easy to find validation and echo chamber comfort from others in the tech fields. e: What I'm tying to say is, this isn't a thing limited to libertarians, and I have at least a couple of friends who support Bernie Sanders who are like this. Granted, they don't engage in the word vomit. CovfefeCatCafe fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 09:35
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To be fair, Bernie Sanders seems to have attracted some of the same libertarian weirdos that Ron Paul attracted. I don't really know what the deal is, it's like these people just want grandpa president and they don't give a poo poo what his actual politics are so long as he's sufficiently different from the other mainstream candidates. These people are projecting a bunch of overly libertarian values on Bernie Sanders in the same way that people projected overly liberal values on Barrack Obama
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Feb 23, 2016 09:43
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Ratoslov posted:That's another thing about Libertarians. Government-created roads pre-dates Capitalism, Socialism, and loving writing. It is the literal life-line of civilization. Why, then, do Libertarians argue it's somehow a bad thing? http://volokh.com/2011/02/15/asteroid-defense-and-libertarianism/ posted:...I think there’s a good case to be made that taxing people to protect the Earth from an asteroid, while within Congress’s powers, is an illegitimate function of government from a moral perspective. I think it’s O.K. to violate people’s rights (e.g. through taxation) if the result is that you protect people’s rights to some greater extent (e.g. through police, courts, the military). But it’s not obvious to me that the Earth being hit by an asteroid (or, say, someone being hit by lightning or a falling tree) violates anyone’s rights; if that’s so, then I’m not sure I can justify preventing it through taxation.
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Feb 23, 2016 09:54
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| # ? May 14, 2024 19:09 |
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http://volokh.com/2011/02/15/the-oracle-inside-my-pee-hole/
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Feb 23, 2016 09:58
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