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Urit posted:https://eddb.io/system to find parts. Quoting this to find it later. Also just remembered that I never actually assign the shield boosts to a fire group so they've worthless to me so far. That's cool.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:16
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Spanish Manlove posted:Quoting this to find it later. If you're talking about the SCBs you don't need to put them in a fire group. They can have a dedicated hot key or button. Mine is assigned to a button on my HOTAS throttle. Swapping fire groups to shoot off SCBs would be a pain to do, in my opinion.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:25
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Natsuumi posted:If you're talking about the SCBs you don't need to put them in a fire group. They can have a dedicated hot key or button. Mine is assigned to a button on my HOTAS throttle. Swapping fire groups to shoot off SCBs would be a pain to do, in my opinion. This can also be done with heat sinks and chaff, I recommend binding all three
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Feb 23, 2016 21:54
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Urit posted:https://eddb.io/system to find parts. And if LHS 20 doesn't have it, Borr will at either Armstrong City or Grover Terminal. You can get both the Python and the Anaconda at Grover.
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Feb 23, 2016 22:04
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cobra iv chat: I'm pretty sure the Cobra IV was designed with Horizons in mind, with an eye towards ground assaults and being able to house multiple SRVs
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Feb 23, 2016 22:19
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Is there a way to disable the whole distance/speed screen when you have a planet you can land on targeted? I don't even have a planetary approach suite installed, and I'd like to be able to see what type of planet I have selected without opening up the system map.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:23
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kedo posted:Is there a way to disable the whole distance/speed screen when you have a planet you can land on targeted? I don't even have a planetary approach suite installed, and I'd like to be able to see what type of planet I have selected without opening up the system map. I think the planet type is still displayed in the left lower window, but the distance and speed is now there for everything and always, including stations. So I guess, yes and no?
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Feb 23, 2016 23:27
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SciFiDownBeat posted:cobra iv chat: I'm pretty sure the Cobra IV was designed with Horizons in mind, with an eye towards ground assaults and being able to house multiple SRVs Maybe! Still lots of ships that do it better though. My theory is that it is bad because if it were good there would be a nonstop stream of tears about it.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:31
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SciFiDownBeat posted:cobra iv chat: I'm pretty sure the Cobra IV was designed with Horizons in mind, with an eye towards ground assaults and being able to house multiple SRVs Kinda dumb though, because the thing that makes the Cobra III one of the best Horizons ships is that you spend so much planet time toodling around outside supercruise and it's the fastest ship. You don't need much internals or 50% more SRVs to do surface missions, you need high speed, high boost speed, and I dunno missile rack space. I think the Cobra IV was just designed to be a deliberately bad piece of marketing bait.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:34
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I loved my Cobra III, and I think that's why I like my Python so much. It's like a bigger, meaner looking Cobra III.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:37
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K8.0 posted:Kinda dumb though, because the thing that makes the Cobra III one of the best Horizons ships is that you spend so much planet time toodling around outside supercruise and it's the fastest ship. You don't need much internals or 50% more SRVs to do surface missions, you need high speed, high boost speed, and I dunno missile rack space. I think the Cobra IV was just designed to be a deliberately bad piece of marketing bait. That's  , though! It's like how they first spend some time to add some low-tier explorers to fill up holes in the explorer line-up only to then turn around and forgetting how much poo poo a long-range explorer has to carry around. Especially Horizons made this really silly by adding even more poo poo a dedicated explorer needs.Hopefully they remember this at some point and add 2 class 1 internal module slots to every explorer-ship so they aren't losing space just to do the stuff they're supposed to do.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:59
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Urit posted:Bursts are the middle option, so they're not really good at being forgiving/low WEP usage (pulse win) or high damage (beam win) but they can be fine if you have a lot of spare power. I mean from the chart there it looks like bursts barely even out-DPS pulses of the equivalent size. Never mind I'm swapping a laser for a huge cannon anyways
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Feb 24, 2016 00:11
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Feb 24, 2016 00:14
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Surprise Giraffe posted:I mean from the chart there it looks like bursts barely even out-DPS pulses of the equivalent size. Never mind I'm swapping a laser for a huge cannon anyways Don't think of bursts in terms of pure DPS, rather deal with them in terms of... well, burst damage. They can do a lot of damage at once, which can gently caress with SCB recharge cycles, and are particularly well suited to smacking down hard-to-hit targets in one go. Basically, they're good for striking targets you won't be able to keep a reliable bead on, rather than something you can hose damage out with like pulses.
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Feb 24, 2016 00:22
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Burst lasers are literally the worst of both worlds. They have the power draw and sustained damage of beams, and as a trade off a burst damage capability just slightly better than pulses. Just fit beams if you want burst damage, you know you want to anyway. edit: for less hyperbole.
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Feb 24, 2016 00:25
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Don't bursts still have better sustained DPS than pulses if your power distributor can keep up for as long as you have the target in your sights? That's a better deal if you aren't running dry in situations where you otherwise would be using beams.
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Feb 24, 2016 00:44
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timn posted:Don't bursts still have better sustained DPS than pulses if your power distributor can keep up for as long as you have the target in your sights? That's a better deal if you aren't running dry in situations where you otherwise would be using beams. The power drain on bursts is only slightly lower than beams. Pulses are still straight up superior for sustained damage and beams outperform bursts in any other situation.
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Feb 24, 2016 00:51
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i thought the deal with bursts was that they did better damage to shields but worse damage to armor?
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Feb 24, 2016 00:54
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tooterfish posted:Burst lasers are literally the worst of both worlds. They have the power draw and sustained damage of beams, and as a trade off a burst damage capability just slightly better than pulses. Still pretty hyperbolic. If you don't have enough power to run beams but you have a small surplus, bursts are a totally valid option for the reasons listed above. The pulse sustained dps argument is a back and forth cesspool of sperging that assumes perfect firing solutions for a duration that is unrealistic in most ships that aren't a vulture. Use the best lasers your powergrid can support, and enjoy yourself. Any of the three can fry an NPC, and none of this conversation is relevant to pvp Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 00:56
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Kuvo posted:i thought the deal with bursts was that they did better damage to shields but worse damage to armor? I thought that was debunked? Either way I prefer bursts because I think they look coolest And I feel like I get better results running 2x C2 + 2x C1 bursts on my FGS as opposed to beams in those slots. e: vvvvv That's exactly it, I run dry running beams on the Gunship but not running bursts. Ferrovanadium fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 00:58
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Astroniomix posted:The power drain on bursts is only slightly lower than beams. Pulses are still straight up superior for sustained damage and beams outperform bursts in any other situation. Hm, I have a hard time buying it for the reasons other people have since posted. Triple large burst works great on the python whereas beams always ran dry way too quickly. Pulses are better sustained damage assuming you stay on target long enough to actually drain your capacitor. Otherwise any wep energy you leave on the table is wasted. If you're consistently running dry on bursts or beams then you're not making efficient use of it. If you run dry on beams but not bursts then that's likely your sweet spot.
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Feb 24, 2016 01:08
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timn posted:Hm, I have a hard time buying it for the reasons other people have since posted. Triple large burst works great on the python whereas beams always ran dry way too quickly. We're not banning you from using the drat things, you can clown on NPCs all day with 5 cannons on a python, doesn't mean I'm going to recommend it. Burst lasers are bad, they still technically function as a weapon that can deal damage to spaceships, they are just worse than other options. (also what the gently caress do you mean "not making efficient use of wep energy"? you're either firing your weapon or you're not, the only "effeciency" comes from weapon selection which bursts are; thanks largely in part to their inferior hull damage, the worst option of the three laser types)
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Feb 24, 2016 01:21
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At their heart, weapons are just devices that convert capacitor to damage at a certain rate. Beams convert the capacitor very very quickly, but not very efficiently. They're the best burst damage weapon because you can convert your entire capacitor to damage in a short amount of time... the cap running dry is kinda the point! I might have been a bit hard on burst lasers earlier though. They are a decent middle ground according to this test, so are probably worth running if you have the power budget. They seem to be the best lasers against hull too (don't know when they changed this, I swear they used to suck against hulls). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR82aPyigMc
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Feb 24, 2016 01:37
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By efficiency I meant damage per tick of wep energy. Pulses are most efficient and win out for sustained damage if you are actually running down your capacitor. If you're not, then it's leaving damage on the table from that unused energy. Bursts or beams will better make sure you use up your capacitor, but if you're running dry too early then all you did was use the same amount of energy for less total damage than the pulses would have used it for. Point being that bursts are an (imperfect) middle ground. You could call them the best of both worlds for the same reasons you can call them the worst of both worlds.
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Feb 24, 2016 01:40
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tooterfish posted:At their heart, weapons are just devices that convert capacitor to damage at a certain rate. Beams convert the capacitor very very quickly, but not very efficiently. They're the best burst damage weapon because you can convert your entire capacitor to damage in a short amount of time... the cap running dry is kinda the point! I'd have to go shoot things again but I (was) pretty sure that burst had the best damage VS sheilds while being the worst vs hull, it might be the other way around. EDIT: It might not be raw hull damage but rather armor pen that bursts suffer from.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:43
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I like using dumbfire missiles because its real satisfying to nail a little ship like an eagle with them.
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Feb 24, 2016 03:58
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Kramjacks posted:I like using dumbfire missiles because its real satisfying to nail a little ship like an eagle with them. Dual PAC vulture is still my favorite ship.
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Feb 24, 2016 04:06
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Astroniomix posted:I'd have to go shoot things again but I (was) pretty sure that burst had the best damage VS sheilds while being the worst vs hull, it might be the other way around. I think the breakdown is:
The summary is that pulses are the best if you can reliably stay on target and are the most efficient through energy use/heat generation so they're the best choice for sustained combat or for module damage. Bursts have poor penetration but deliver the shots in a burst (hence the name) so they're good against shields if you can't always keep guns on target. Of course, they're also only marginally more efficient than beams in terms of cap drain/heat generation/fitting and beams deliver their payload in a much shorter time period and penetrate modules better sooooo. Ideally I think you'd have it so Pulses are the middle of the road option where they're easy to fit and do good sustained DPS but also don't have great penetration, Bursts would be somewhere in between where Pulses and Beams are fitting-wise but would have the best module penetration and Beams are basically where they are now but with reduced module penetration. tl;dr: pulses are boring but are the best/most efficient, beams are the best if you can manage to fit them and deal with heat generation. Bursts offer basically nothing over the other two other than the hardpoints looking way more awesome but the actual beam being worse.
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Feb 24, 2016 04:28
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Mercurius posted:I'm pretty sure there's no penalties or bonuses to shield damage like there are against hull (including weapon size vs ship size) so it'd come down to weapon DPS/time on target which goes back to the 'pick lasers based on the situation' thing. I'm also pretty sure bursts have the worst penetration of the lasers for shooting modules which was only made worse by the changes that went in alongside the overhaul of HRPs in 1.5/2.0. Different weapons do different amounts of damage to shields and hull though, which is what I'm saying. A class 3 pulse lasers does a base of 7mj per shot to shields and 4 to hull whereas a C3 burst does 28 to shields and also does 4 to hull which sounds awesome until you consider that the burst laser's rate of fire is one third that of the pulse's.
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Feb 24, 2016 04:51
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Astroniomix posted:Different weapons do different amounts of damage to shields and hull though, which is what I'm saying. A class 3 pulse lasers does a base of 7mj per shot to shields and 4 to hull whereas a C3 burst does 28 to shields and also does 4 to hull which sounds awesome until you consider that the burst laser's rate of fire is one third that of the pulse's. I know Truesilver is part of Adle's Armada and the information is somewhat suspect but as far as I know this was the most up to date testing done on hull and shield damage values for all weapons and came from the 1.5 beta so it should be fairly current: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WB9irOzHq8p2CR_MQIyx9YbSfkNOFd4qcWritnd6ehQ/edit?pref=2&pli=1
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Feb 24, 2016 05:40
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Finally did some Robigo smuggling in my python last night to see how it all worked. Good money - made 22 million in about an hour and a half. It was totally the wrong ship for the job though - I think I'll go back to the Clipper as a daily and get an Asp Explorer for this sort of thing. Got to be honest, I think I might just prefer making things explode for cash. Even if the return is slower. Oh yeah - the weapon discussion. Stick to pulses if you're going all/mostly energy. If you're mixing use beams to strip shields and pummel with whatever kinetics you like. I'm not sure where bursts are good either and believe me I tried them a lot. Maybe when power is super tight and you can't fit beams? They aren't poo poo per se though so just stick with what you like. DancingShade fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 07:12
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Mercurius posted:I know Truesilver is part of Adle's Armada and the information is somewhat suspect but as far as I know this was the most up to date testing done on hull and shield damage values for all weapons and came from the 1.5 beta so it should be fairly current: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WB9irOzHq8p2CR_MQIyx9YbSfkNOFd4qcWritnd6ehQ/edit?pref=2&pli=1 Except he didn't actually test it. Scroll down to the second page: quote:Notes & Acknowledgments I think the reason bursts do "more hull damage" (they shouldn't really) than pulse is they get more damage "rolls" (three vs one for pulse) so you have less of a chance of a module soaking some of the damage.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:28
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Using the video as data source: There is a significant increase in DPS when going from pulse to burst Lasers. Burst gain 42% DPS against the Hull and 18% against shields. Going to Beams gain 11% against hull and 42% against shields (compared to bursts). Beams compared to pulse have 57% more DPS against the hull and 76% more DPS against shields.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:57
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Using the video as data source: There is a significant increase in DPS when going from pulse to burst Lasers. Burst gain 42% DPS against the Hull and 18% against shields. Going to Beams gain 11% against hull and 42% against shields (compared to bursts). Beams compared to pulse have 57% more DPS against the hull and 76% more DPS against shields. I can corroborate that bursts seem to do more damage against hulls as opposed to beams. It's purely anecdotal but it does seem to be the case.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:20
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I am new to pvp and want to make a roaming cheapo ganker. http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_eagle/32A3A3A1D2A2D2Cih--006i2q2525.AwRj4yg=.CwBhwRjaQ5REA=== Beams in the smalls?
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Feb 24, 2016 16:22
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DreadLlama posted:I am new to pvp and want to make a roaming cheapo ganker. http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_eagle/32A3A3A1D2A2D2Cih--006i2q2525.AwRj4yg=.CwBhwRjaQ5REA=== I'd go balls out and just put 2 more railguns, also worth considering is swapping the chaff for a heatsink.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:33
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Astroniomix posted:I'd go balls out and just put 2 more railguns, also worth considering is swapping the chaff for a heatsink. I mostly agree, but I figure why not missiles as a surprise attack? Better than literally nothing there. Fiddled with the outfitting here- http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_eagle/22A3A3A1A2A2A2Cih2h2h026i2q2525.AwRj4yg=.CwBhwRjaQ5REA===
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Feb 24, 2016 16:40
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DreadLlama posted:I am new to pvp and want to make a roaming cheapo ganker. http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_eagle/32A3A3A1D2A2D2Cih--006i2q2525.AwRj4yg=.CwBhwRjaQ5REA=== How robust is the iggle's capacitor? As mentioned above, you want to be draining most or all of your WEP pool on each pass, but without spending too much time on target unable to fire. That will give you your best in-practice dps, so fool around with all three and see what suits the way you fly that ship. It's also worth noting that beams generate the most heat of the three by far, which might make pairing them with a high heat weapon like a railgun tricky.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:41
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Astroniomix posted:I'd go balls out and just put 2 more railguns, also worth considering is swapping the chaff for a heatsink. This would be also be fun as hell
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Feb 24, 2016 16:42
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Also I recall someone asking about Corvette builds. Here's what I'm currently running (bursts are new as of this morning, were previously beams): http://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_corvette/18A7A6A5D8A8A5C1r1r157i7i0q0q0004040404040l02B006063d5n2d246lv42f.Iw18Z5A=.Aw18ZCMNcQ==?bn=Vette It's definitely Space  levels but it's seriously awesome.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:54
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