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Eskaton posted:If it paid well, I'm sure they would. People worked in pretty awful mills in the north. Plantation owners in the south were so loving stupid that after the civil war they had trouble getting any labor because they didn't understand that they needed to pay people decent wages. edit: also a combination of Jim crow laws and widespread discrimination meant that they majority of post civil war plantation workers were black. Agean90 fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 16:26
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Strudel Man posted:It can be a subtle distinction. Poor southern whites were certainly strongly anti-emancipation, for the reason you state, and also because of economic and other fears about what would happen if the slaves already there were freed. But we're specifically thinking now about how they felt about bringing more slaves in, which is a slightly different question. The plantation system could not have survived without West African slavery, full stop. It's not just a logistics problem (how do we get all this work done cheaply?). The environmental changes wrought by the plantation caused malaria to boom in the region. Without modern medicine, the only way to get any work done there was by using malaria-resistant workers, and West Africans are resistant to malaria. No European populations had any malaria resistance. If you look at the outcome of any European military expedition into this region, the results are pitiable: you sometimes see as many as 1/3 of the army drop dead from malaria. Could the plantation system have survived with West African wage labour, perhaps? Possibly, but the notion of wage labour was pretty alien to most humans at the time. Also, being shipped to a distant place where there is only one employment game in town means that you are a de facto slave, regardless of whether or not you're paid a pittance at the discretion of your owner/employer.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:52
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I had a thought about Federations in Stellaris. The round robin system is serviceable but also kind of primitive and a lot of players will resent the loss of control during the time they aren't in the big chair. So what if you model federations on the Systems Alliance from Mass Effect? Superficially it's just humanity, but it actually represents the collective nations states of Earth and humanity as a whole but is separate and independent from any one nation. So if you take Federations and make them the Holy Roman Empire in space, except the Emperor is the pope and doesn't have any planets or colonies. Throw in a bit of parliament from EU4 and make the federation an independent AI entity whose behavior is based on laws that are voted on and implemented by its member states. Most federations will apparently start off as a defensive reaction by smaller empires so that would influence the laws and policies of it's first iteration. You could limit this to the combined fleet (under permanent AI control) whose mandate is defending it's members core worlds. This means that if any member declares war on another state the Fed won't intervene, but it will defend your core worlds (not sectors) and use it's influence to push for a white peace if it's member loses too many battles. Over time reforms (HRE) expand the scope and control of the federation and the goal of the system would be to give the player interesting internal politics while giving up some foreign policy control.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:56
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Demiurge4 posted:I had a thought about Federations in Stellaris. The round robin system is serviceable but also kind of primitive and a lot of players will resent the loss of control during the time they aren't in the big chair. So what if you model federations on the Systems Alliance from Mass Effect? Superficially it's just humanity, but it actually represents the collective nations states of Earth and humanity as a whole but is separate and independent from any one nation. So if you take Federations and make them the Holy Roman Empire in space, except the Emperor is the pope and doesn't have any planets or colonies. Throw in a bit of parliament from EU4 and make the federation an independent AI entity whose behavior is based on laws that are voted on and implemented by its member states. This is very clearly going to be DLC at some point. The round-robin is an obvious stopgap so that they don't spend a load of effort coming up with federation presidency systems if federations aren't a huge part of the game at launch.
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Feb 23, 2016 17:14
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Dallan Invictus posted:You kept your redtext all these years just to make that one joke, didn't you? Why would anyone get rid of the best red text on the forums?
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Feb 23, 2016 18:24
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DStecks posted:This is very clearly going to be DLC at some point. The round-robin is an obvious stopgap so that they don't spend a load of effort coming up with federation presidency systems if federations aren't a huge part of the game at launch. I think this is the case. I mean, for one thing, it lacks a mechanism whereby a single member state can effectively consolidate control over the whole thing. Which, continuing the star trek analogy would be the dominion?
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Feb 23, 2016 19:40
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Fintilgin posted:Why would anyone get rid of the best red text on the forums? Wiz posted:My race had a trait that made them want slaves but didn't like enslaving their own. Xenophobia can mean different things depending on the traits and ethoses it's combined with. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 19:50
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NewMars posted:I think this is the case. I mean, for one thing, it lacks a mechanism whereby a single member state can effectively consolidate control over the whole thing. Which, continuing the star trek analogy would be the dominion? Thought it was humanity 
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Feb 23, 2016 19:51
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According to the Paradox Twitter account there was an AMA held this afternoon on Reddit - nothing much of any substance but I guess it gives you a look inside some of the thought process that goes on over there? If particular note is that HOI4 is for sure coming out this year:  And that Johan finds WoW inspirational somehow.
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Feb 24, 2016 00:45
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Psychotic Weasel posted:According to the Paradox Twitter account there was an AMA held this afternoon on Reddit - nothing much of any substance but I guess it gives you a look inside some of the thought process that goes on over there? Did anyone ask the same question for Stellaris?
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Feb 24, 2016 01:02
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I believe it was confirmed at some point that Stellaris was coming before HOI4
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Feb 24, 2016 01:09
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I didn't read all 1000+ posts there (and Reddit sorts people's posts very stupidly) but at least one person asked this and the only response from Johan was that Stellaris entered beta before HOI4. Does that infer that Stellaris is further along it's development track and will likely make it out first? Or was he simply just pointing out that one reached a milestone before the other? I honestly wouldn't get my hopes up one way or the other. To give people a hint though, they were also talking about possibly having more game play stuff to show off for Stellaris after GDC, which is mid-March, so I won't expect either game to be out in the immediate future. They do also have some event in London the weekend before where they will be showing off a "near-complete build" of Stellaris for the press, so maybe they'll have more details for us then. I recommend holding your breath.
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Feb 24, 2016 01:39
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my bets are still on may or june
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Feb 24, 2016 01:43
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Paradox AMA: Please release the game, bye!
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Feb 24, 2016 01:54
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ParaDOX PLZ CONCIDER EARLY RELEASE! Johan, why not just release Stellaris now? The game is playable why isn't it out NOW?! You guys are loving idiots not to release now!!! RELEASE RELEASE RELEASE!!!!!!! That's about 90% of the posts related to stellaris these days.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:08
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Psychotic Weasel posted:According to the Paradox Twitter account there was an AMA held this afternoon on Reddit - nothing much of any substance but I guess it gives you a look inside some of the thought process that goes on over there? You know, I was reading the AMA just now, and it occurred to me that now that they own White Wolf they could and perhaps SHOULD do a World of Darkness DLC for CKII.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:21
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Baronjutter posted:ParaDOX PLZ CONCIDER EARLY RELEASE! because everyone can discern the playability and stability of a game from some screenshots released by the developer and maybe a video? (I haven't been following Stellaris's development too closely.)
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Feb 24, 2016 02:33
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There were a number of answers stressing that Paradox Interactive and Paradox Development Studios were two very different entities, and it's PI that has control over the WoD IP and White Wolf, not PDS. I get the impression that the devs who post here have little to no control over that part of the business and may even object to tainting parts of their IP with cross promotional material like that. I also hope that WoW wasn't inspiring people to develop some WoD MMO in the future. Jesus Chris, if you think your fan base is bad now just wait until you release a game about vampires and werewolves; you'll be begging the Nazi apologists and Serbian nationalists to come back in no time.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:38
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When people say that want a WoD MMO they mean EVE with black lipstick. I don't know if that makes it any better or worse in your book.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:51
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WoD will never be as predatory as EVE. Also, do Paradox not also own the rights to Conan the Barbarian now?
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Feb 24, 2016 03:11
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I want Paradox to buy the rights to Heroes of Might and Magic III so they can make a good modern version of it.
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Feb 24, 2016 04:09
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I also hope that WoW wasn't inspiring people to develop some WoD MMO in the future. Jesus Chris, if you think your fan base is bad now just wait until you release a game about vampires and werewolves; you'll be begging the Nazi apologists and Serbian nationalists to come back in no time. zedprime posted:When people say that want a WoD MMO they mean EVE with black lipstick. I don't know if that makes it any better or worse in your book. I'm assuming you all know this because this is the Paradox thread, but PI bought WoD from CCP, the makers of EVE, who were very much planning a WoD MMO and nearly went out of business due to the money they lost on it. We can only hope Paradox learnt its lesson. The fervor for MMOs seems to be cooling down a little, anyway. WoW has lost half its playerbase, and very few (no?) AAA MMOs are coming out right now. I'm not entirely sure where MMO players went--MOBAs, maybe?
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Feb 24, 2016 05:18
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I hadn't been keeping up with my MOO news, no. I grew out of them around the same time EverQuest went out of style and Anarchy Online fell flat on its rear end, I haven't had time to dedicate to a game like that since highschool anyway. That said, I don't think I've seen a successful MMO since WoW was released and sucked up the entire market. Everyone seems to be more interested in F2P microtransation garbage these days, no one wants to pay a monthly subscription any more.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:30
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TomViolence posted:WoD will never be as predatory as EVE. Also, do Paradox not also own the rights to Conan the Barbarian now? No, FunCom has the Conan rights. They have a Conan-based crafting survival game coming up (that I'm actually super excited for and I probably shouldn't be). I've been entertaining thoughts of making a Conan mod for CK2, but then I think about making a map and filling out all those provinces and think about doing something that's not as much work.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:55
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Wait, why did CCP own WoD? While I don't know the current system, hasn't it historically been a fairly non-crunchy RPG? It seems like the complete wrong fit. Paradox wouldn't be much better. Granted, looser role players have plenty more options these days, and maybe the current version of WoD has abandoned that philosophy. It still seems weird that anybody would want a spreadsheet WoD.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:22
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CCP wanted to branch out in the early aughts, but never quite managed to do anything but waste money and the property. Paradox at least intends to do something with it, even if that something is overly focused on Europe.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:27
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TomViolence posted:WoD will never be as predatory as EVE. Also, do Paradox not also own the rights to Conan the Barbarian now? That's Paradox Entertainment.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:12
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Cantorsdust posted:I'm not entirely sure where MMO players went--MOBAs, maybe? I think a lot of the die-off of MMOs has been due to the new generation of Post-Minecrafts attempting to pay off on the failed dreams of MMOs past. It turns out that the best solution to having in-game player housing and guild control and poo poo is to not have a bajillion players in your game, because 64 is usually good enough.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:15
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Cantorsdust posted:The fervor for MMOs seems to be cooling down a little, anyway. WoW has lost half its playerbase, and very few (no?) AAA MMOs are coming out right now. I'm not entirely sure where MMO players went--MOBAs, maybe?
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Feb 24, 2016 07:45
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Koramei posted:my bets are still on may or june Yeah, my money is on D-Day because Paradox is just like that.
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Feb 24, 2016 11:18
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I learned a *ton* of things applicable to Paradox games from working on MMOs. Balancing numbers and mechanics versus each other, maintaining endless replayability, etc. They're more similar mechanics-wise than you might think.
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Feb 24, 2016 11:49
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So you're saying HOI4 will be a dumbed down grindfest for the casual MMO crowd.
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Feb 24, 2016 12:04
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So that's where all the mana mechanics came from. 
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Feb 24, 2016 12:19
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Kavak posted:CCP wanted to branch out in the early aughts, but never quite managed to do anything but waste money and the property. One day I will be able to leave my captain's quarters. One day. 
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Feb 24, 2016 12:57
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Wiz posted:I learned a *ton* of things applicable to Paradox games from working on MMOs. Balancing numbers and mechanics versus each other, maintaining endless replayability, etc. They're more similar mechanics-wise than you might think. A 5* advisor appearing is basically an epic drop. Actually tying the appearance of advisors in EU to player behaviour more (ie. going on a building spree raises chances of getting an admin dude, slaughtering vast numbers of foreigners gets you a chance of an Army Organiser etc) wouldn't be a terrible thing.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:50
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They'd be too late at that point. What do I want a builder for once I've built all my stuff, or why would I want an army organizer after I've done all my fighting?
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Feb 24, 2016 16:34
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Wiz posted:I learned a *ton* of things applicable to Paradox games from working on MMOs. Balancing numbers and mechanics versus each other, maintaining endless replayability, etc. They're more similar mechanics-wise than you might think. Dropped by (1) Name: General Patton AI Difficulty: Normal % : 10 Mercedes-Benz W31 Dropped by (1) Name: Adolf Hitler, Führer of Grossdeutschland AI Difficulty: Hard % : 1
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Feb 24, 2016 17:24
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Wiz posted:I learned a *ton* of things applicable to Paradox games from working on MMOs. Balancing numbers and mechanics versus each other, maintaining endless replayability, etc. They're more similar mechanics-wise than you might think. Please drop a lot of acid and then make a game that combines the most inappropriate mechanics of both genres.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:37
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Dibujante posted:Please drop a lot of acid and then make a game that combines the most inappropriate mechanics of both genres. It will be a Korean MMO where you start as a Native American nation, then after 1,000 years of play graduate to an African minor, then an Indian minor, then a minor horde, then a Muslim minor, then Navarra. If you make it through a raid as Navarra you unlock the HRE minors. One group raid as those unlocks England. Winning the HYW unlocks the end game boss, France.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:46
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I would play an ARPG with anthropomorphic countries set during the Reformation and 30 Years War. Although I guess the league wars already comes close to ARPG APMs in EU4.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:53
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