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Mocking Bird
Aug 17, 2011
As with literally every thread I post in inside of E/N, anyone who has any questions about CPS and foster care or becoming a foster parent is welcome to PM me. I'm a California CPS social worker and foster parent so my knowledge is California specific, but I can connect people to their local info.

And I definitely am not trying to collect praise for myself, I just feel a lot of horror at the idea of using children who have been through serious trauma as paychecks. Those people should be ashamed. Kids are EXPENSIVE, not sources of income. And the stipend is meant to provide for their higher needs and the cost of maintaining a larger household to accommodate them, not for the financial solvency of the household. There's actually a review of finances that usually accompanies foster parenting to prove you aren't relying on foster children to make ends meet.

Adoption is a whole other can of worms though :(

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Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.
The unaffordable housing is a symptom of income inequality, focus on fixing income inequality and there will still be pricing skew but it won't be so deleteriously huge.

This might sound like a radical idea but if we were to raise the minimum wage to ~$26/hr, start more labor intensive public works programs, and raise the top marginal tax rate to, oh, about 90% I think we might be able to have a powerful middle class in this country again.

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

I saw that concept in action in Denmark. A friend of mine managed to purchase a decent condo in Copenhagen, on a call center salary. She is 23 and makes $24 an hour doing basic tech support. Her brother works at a public daycare making slightly more than that for rendering a basic public service. It's not a perfect system, but certainly better than the minwage hellscape we see in the USA.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

The unaffordable housing is a symptom of income inequality, focus on fixing income inequality and there will still be pricing skew but it won't be so deleteriously huge.
No it's not. If the total income for the area is the same, then the average rent is probably going to stay the same, because demand (which is driven by income) will be the same.

The unaffordable housing is a result of lack of supply, which is a result of bad policy.

swenblack
Jan 14, 2004

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

This might sound like a radical idea but if we were to raise the minimum wage to ~$26/hr, start more labor intensive public works programs, and raise the top marginal tax rate to, oh, about 90% I think we might be able to have a powerful middle class in this country again.
Best user name/post I've seen in a long time. (Link)

pig slut lisa
Mar 5, 2012

irl is good


Cicero posted:

The unaffordable housing is a result of lack of supply, which is a result of bad policy.

I agree with this 100%. The 1916 Zoning Resolution in NYC allowed a built-out city that could house 55 million people. The city's been getting downzoned ever since. Even the Bloomberg administration, which attracted lots of attention for certain high-profile upzonings in Midtown Manhattan, the Queens Waterfront, and Downtown Brooklyn, downzoned more properties than it upzoned. And of course all the Long Island and Westchester suburbs make it mostly illegal to build anything more dense than a single family house. This is the same pattern that exists all over the country.

Hell, the city I work for is going through a downzoning process in a core neighborhood right now, even though that runs counter to a lot of things outlined in the comprehensive plan we adopted five years ago. The fact that single-family zoning is such a sacred cow among planners is easily the most frustrating part of my job.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
This derail loving sucks. More BWM stories please.

Content:
I know someone who is struggling to make ends meet. They are extremely mechanically inclined, so when the wife's SUV had the engine go I figured they would rebuild it. Nope! A brand new SUV is in their driveway, right next to his lifted 2500HD pickup that hardly gets driven.
He has no savings and no retirement, but he has that truck with the huge wheels and custom paint job. He even has an old Camry as a beater that the wife could drive while he fixes her old car, but that makes too much sense I guess.

pig slut lisa
Mar 5, 2012

irl is good


https://twitter.com/jordanginsberg/status/700794674491961344

Would it be premature to assume that Cheddar will provide for some excellent BWM material (if it even launches)?

Article here: http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-steinberg-launches-cheddar-tv-2016-2

SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

pig slut lisa posted:

https://twitter.com/jordanginsberg/status/700794674491961344

Would it be premature to assume that Cheddar will provide for some excellent BWM material (if it even launches)?

Article here: http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-steinberg-launches-cheddar-tv-2016-2

That has far too many letters. Was Chedr already taken?

Asimov
Feb 15, 2016

Hmm I'm afraid millennials only have a 50-50 chance of correctly spelling Cheddar anyway.

Chinaman7000
Nov 28, 2003

Cheddar's is extremely good with money you can get a nice burger in a decent establishment for less than $10.

r0ck0
Sep 12, 2004
r0ck0s p0zt m0d3rn lyf
Sweet sweet gubment cheese

CheesyDog
Jul 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Chinaman7000 posted:

Cheddar's is extremely good with money you can get a nice burger in a decent establishment for less than $10.

Any drink labeled "Limit 2 per customer" on their menu has a great alcohol to dollar ratio

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Holy poo poo:

quote:

I'm currently going to Full Sail University and am going to school for computer animation. I took out a federal loan and am going to graduate in about 8 months, after that I'll have a 6 month period where I won't have to pay anything back. Afterwards, I'll most likely have to pay a monthly 300+ balance and could use advice on the best ways to do this.
This is my first time posting here and really hope you guys can help.
Getting a job as soon as I graduate is obviously the first thing on my list.
EDIT: Screen shot of what I need to pay back: http://i.imgur.com/an9Qmla.png
EDIT 2: I've been looking over the loan document and it says it's a PLUS/SLS loan, which I believe is a federal loan that requires a cosigner.

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/475vmm/145k_debt_graduating_school_in_8_months/

Oh, but don't worry, he's not technically $145k in debt, only $90k, $145k is just the total amount he'll end up paying off. :suicide:

But then friendly Redditers point out that there's no way he'll only be paying $300 a month on that, and rightfully figure out that unless he gets on IBR it'll be over $900 a month.

r0ck0
Sep 12, 2004
r0ck0s p0zt m0d3rn lyf

DrBouvenstein posted:

Holy poo poo:


https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/475vmm/145k_debt_graduating_school_in_8_months/

Oh, but don't worry, he's not technically $145k in debt, only $90k, $145k is just the total amount he'll end up paying off. :suicide:

But then friendly Redditers point out that there's no way he'll only be paying $300 a month on that, and rightfully figure out that unless he gets on IBR it'll be over $900 a month.

But with a degree in computer animation he will be making beaucoup bucks working for pixar.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

r0ck0 posted:

But with a degree in computer animation he will be making beaucoup bucks working for pixar.

Oh, he lives in Taiwan?

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
Have a family member who was a Pixar animator. He worked on 4 films and did really well there.

He left Pixar to make movies with his brother. They make Redbox tier B-movies like Osombie or The Christmas Dragon.

r0ck0
Sep 12, 2004
r0ck0s p0zt m0d3rn lyf

canyoneer posted:

Have a family member who was a Pixar animator. He worked on 4 films and did really well there.

He left Pixar to make movies with his brother. They make Redbox tier B-movies like Osombie or The Christmas Dragon.

So what you are saying is that gravy train has (full) sailed?

r0ck0 fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 23, 2016

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
The only reasons to get an art degree:

1. You don't worry about money and/or being homeless.
2. You are ridiculously good at art and want to round out your experience. People are throwing money at you and approaching you out of the blue to hire you after seeing your portfolio, but you'd rather learn more first.

Number one reason not to get an art degree:
1. You think you will learn to become an artist.

melon cat
Jan 21, 2010

Nap Ghost
I'll never understand why anyone spends money on a specialized Graphic Design/3D animation/creative whatever degree. All you need to do is have a great portfolio, and let that speak for itself. Take an inexpensive crash course at the very maximum, then work on your own projects, and never stop. Even collaborate with other designers/developers, and build up your network while do it. It's really similar to getting into videogame development. If any company ignores a great portfolio due to a lack of degree, they're probably a badly-run company staffed by recruiters who don't know what they're doing.

But unfortunately, there are a lot of local Universities here that are conjuring up all sorts 'Bachelors' programs to take advantage of people who don't know any better. It's nuts. I've heard of a "Bachelor of Technology". There are even some shady organizations offering "certification" for graphic design. Heck, I know a guy who paid for an overseas "Master of Graphic Design" graduate program. And even if a school isn't ripping you off, their outdated curriculum will probably cover old versions of software that get major updates every 6 months.

melon cat fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Feb 23, 2016

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
I can understand why very easily, and you touched upon it. Bright-eyed naive high school graduates or people looking to better their lives + deceptive and aggressive marketing materials make for a bad, and possibly exploitative, combination.

Maybe the victims are to blame for the lack of research, maybe the schools shouldn't be so predatory, or maybe the solution is somewhere in the middle? I don't know but something is definitely not right.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
https://www.facebook.com/thisisinsider/videos/1516746001966126/

$115 for a jar of air. Over 100 sold.

Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

Gender roles guilt me into being fat.
I would say that nobody would actually buy that but they're selling to Chinese-- the people who will rent unemployable white people to just hang out at clubs or to cosplay as a professional to give a business legitimacy.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
Shots fired, wherein a world weary 29 year old bartender who lived the privilege of being functionally unemployed in NYC while living at mom's house after graduating college does some 'splainin to Talia Jane, fired yelp call center employee:

https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/an-open-letter-to-millenials-like-talia-52e9597943aa

Colin Mockery
Jun 24, 2007
Rawr



BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Shots fired, wherein a world weary 29 year old bartender who lived the privilege of being functionally unemployed in NYC while living at mom's house after graduating college does some 'splainin to Talia Jane, fired yelp call center employee:

https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/an-open-letter-to-millenials-like-talia-52e9597943aa

That's even worse than the original one and is exactly the "BOOTSTRAPS" sentiment that everyone always (rightly) complains about.

The only objection I had to Talia's letter was that she appeared to actually be making about/almost enough to live paycheck to paycheck if she had made different financial decisions and didn't have too many minimum payments to worry about (still not very much), so having her talk about how she was literally starving and there was nothing she could do about it seemed iffy to me.

"Suffering builds character and when I was your age I suffered too so you should just work harder," is still dumb though.

Dr. Eldarion
Mar 21, 2001

Deal Dispatcher

I don't know, I thought this was pretty great:

quote:

You expected to get what you thought you deserved rather than expected to work for what you had to earn.

That sums up a huge amount of BWM in general.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Lotta words to say "bootstraps".

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009

Dr. Eldarion posted:

I don't know, I thought this was pretty great:


That sums up a huge amount of BWM in general.

You can say that for a lot of what we consider basic human rights as standards of living goes down. Such as the right to stay alive.

I don't think it's really that entitled in the US to expect everyone who works to get a living wage appropriate to where they live and free health care.

ohgodwhat
Aug 6, 2005

Lucky she had a family friend to give her that waitress job. I guess if she didn't catch a break with her writing career, she'd of course still be all bootstrappy. :rolleyes:

Also loved the heaping of kids these days when she's like 4 years older...

Puppy Galaxy
Aug 1, 2004

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Shots fired, wherein a world weary 29 year old bartender who lived the privilege of being functionally unemployed in NYC while living at mom's house after graduating college does some 'splainin to Talia Jane, fired yelp call center employee:

https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/an-open-letter-to-millenials-like-talia-52e9597943aa

I hate to say this but both of these girls need to .....

Ahem.....

CHECK THEIR PRIVILEGE

Colin Mockery
Jun 24, 2007
Rawr



Waitstaff jobs are comparatively decent in California, I thought, because they're required to be paid minimum wage (CA doesn't have that bullshit "servers can be paid less than min wage" law) and get tips on top of that.

sparkmaster
Apr 1, 2010
Let's be honest, though. Even the most bootstrappy people out there attribute some of their success to just getting lucky. Being at the right place at the right time.

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Shots fired, wherein a world weary 29 year old bartender who lived the privilege of being functionally unemployed in NYC while living at mom's house after graduating college does some 'splainin to Talia Jane, fired yelp call center employee:

https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/an-open-letter-to-millenials-like-talia-52e9597943aa

I wonder if she hired somebody, or if she did all of the back-patting herself while writing this.

hanales
Nov 3, 2013

Horking Delight posted:

That's even worse than the original one and is exactly the "BOOTSTRAPS" sentiment that everyone always (rightly) complains about.

The only objection I had to Talia's letter was that she appeared to actually be making about/almost enough to live paycheck to paycheck if she had made different financial decisions and didn't have too many minimum payments to worry about (still not very much), so having her talk about how she was literally starving and there was nothing she could do about it seemed iffy to me.

"Suffering builds character and when I was your age I suffered too so you should just work harder," is still dumb though.

Why is making wise financial and life decisions "BOOTSTRAPS"? It's not "You have to suffer" it's "Things aren't always perfect, adversity often occurs and you have to deal with it". Saying "maybe you should have gotten a roommate" or "lived at home a couple of years until you could afford to move out" is not bootstraps.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

sparkmaster posted:

Let's be honest, though. Even the most bootstrappy people out there attribute some of their success to just getting lucky. Being at the right place at the right time.
Nope. Human nature is to attribute your successes to your own special talents and your failures to the system. Everyone is the hero of their own story.

Dr. Eldarion
Mar 21, 2001

Deal Dispatcher

Dik Hz posted:

Nope. Human nature is to attribute your successes to your own special talents and your failures to the system. Everyone is the hero of their own story.

This is very not true. In particular, look up impostor syndrome.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

hanales posted:

Why is making wise financial and life decisions "BOOTSTRAPS"? It's not "You have to suffer" it's "Things aren't always perfect, adversity often occurs and you have to deal with it". Saying "maybe you should have gotten a roommate" or "lived at home a couple of years until you could afford to move out" is not bootstraps.

True, but also an economy structured such that working full time with a college degree yet with a forthright expectation to live with your parents for financial reasons for multiple years kind of sucks

BEHOLD: MY CAPE fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Feb 24, 2016

Dr. Eldarion
Mar 21, 2001

Deal Dispatcher

Rurutia posted:

You can say that for a lot of what we consider basic human rights as standards of living goes down. Such as the right to stay alive.

I don't think it's really that entitled in the US to expect everyone who works to get a living wage appropriate to where they live and free health care.

Of course people should be able to afford to live within a reasonable distance from their work. Minimum wage should be raised, CEO pay caps should be put in place, and health care should be completely socialized. The housing situation in the bay area desperately needs to be unfucked.

That doesn't change the fact that in the actual world we're living in, this ideal situation isn't in place. Calling someone out on being bad with money doesn't automatically mean BOOTSTRAPSSSSSS, it just means maybe they should have put more thought into their situation.

I mean come on, we're talking about someone who moved across the country to one of the most expensive areas of the US for an entry level unskilled job at a company that's steadily losing money, and who is complaining about not being able to afford living alone instead of biting the bullet and getting a roommate. BWM.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

Dr. Eldarion posted:

Of course people should be able to afford to live within a reasonable distance from their work. Minimum wage should be raised, CEO pay caps should be put in place, and health care should be completely socialized. The housing situation in the bay area desperately needs to be unfucked.

That doesn't change the fact that in the actual world we're living in, this ideal situation isn't in place. Calling someone out on being bad with money doesn't automatically mean BOOTSTRAPSSSSSS, it just means maybe they should have put more thought into their situation.

I mean come on, we're talking about someone who moved across the country to one of the most expensive areas of the US for an entry level unskilled job at a company that's steadily losing money, and who is complaining about not being able to afford living alone instead of biting the bullet and getting a roommate. BWM.

Yeah but also for a 29 year old to be like I FOUND A WAY TO SURVIVE ON $168 UNTIL I COULD LIVE MY DREAM OF BEING A WRITER between bartending shifts while living at my parents house for free on their health insurance commuting on a taxpayer subsidized rail system

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Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Dr. Eldarion posted:

This is very not true. In particular, look up impostor syndrome.

Impostor syndrome is different, I think. It's about not feeling you are capable in your role, while those around you are. You minimize the significance of your accomplishments, but that doesn't mean that you feel undeserving of them.

I remember telling a reporter that I was very fortunate in my career and having her go over and over back to "well really you earned it, right? because you worked hard?" The idea that someone's success could be meaningfully due to luck just did not fit in her world. It's not just about people's own direct self-image, it's about how it supports their just-world delusion.

E:

Dr. Eldarion posted:

That doesn't change the fact that in the actual world we're living in, this ideal situation isn't in place. Calling someone out on being bad with money doesn't automatically mean BOOTSTRAPSSSSSS, it just means maybe they should have put more thought into their situation.

But what you quoted wasn't "you need to make good choices", it was "you don't deserve to be comfortable, you have to ~~earn~~ it". She could just as easily have grown up in the Bay Area and not been able to go to college, and ended up in the same situation. Your quote tells people they earned their suffering, by not earning success that might simply not be available to them.

Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Feb 24, 2016

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