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Bad Moon posted:I think I'm going to abandon Cisco/Laurel and jump on board the Cisco/Jessie Quick bus just to see Wells being Crisco's Father In Law. I'm shipping Cisco / Reverb's glasses. C'mon Ramon, get off your rear end and start exploring that poo poo.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:50
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For those thinking that Jay and Hunter could still be twins or something take heart, there was a plot exactly as loving retarded as that in Mark Waid's Flash run. "Cobalt Blue."
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Feb 24, 2016 06:01
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Why is the show taking a month off?
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Feb 24, 2016 06:09
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Bad Moon posted:Yes, comic books don't have a long history of super science being used to heal injurries. Weird, I thought we were talking about a TV show. Regardless as a person with a neuromuscular disease who will probably end up in a wheelchair in their lifetime I think it's lovely to put her in one, totally not narcissistically name her after your book and then undisable her 3-5 episodes later.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:14
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The Lord Bude posted:Why is the show taking a month off? They did it last season too, I guess they have other contractual obligations. (According to the TV guide, it's "The World Dog Awards")
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Feb 24, 2016 06:15
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computer parts posted:(According to the TV guide, it's "The World Dog Awards") Sadly, the World Dog Awards are a really big deal. At least in my mostly elderly city in a flyover state, I can guarantee most of the TV's around here will be tuned in to that poo poo.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:18
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The Lord Bude posted:Why is the show taking a month off? Comedy option: Kreisberg needs time to finish bullshitting the rest of the season. Basically he's pulling a Kubo/Kishimoto.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:22
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Rhyno posted:For those thinking that Jay and Hunter could still be twins or something take heart, there was a plot exactly as loving retarded as that in Mark Waid's Flash run. I feel like if they were going with the twin angle the EP wouldn't be saying "the Jay we know is Hunter Zolomon/Zoom", so there has to be another angle. Actually come to think of it, that shape changing meta could have an E2 counterpart. He could have been infiltrating the group under Zoom's guidance (at least while Zoom was doing other stuff). Although that would make this an even bigger rehash of last year since RF pulled the same trick. Hoping they do something more interesting.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:26
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Guy A. Person posted:I feel like if they were going with the twin angle the EP wouldn't be saying "the Jay we know is Hunter Zolomon/Zoom", so there has to be another angle. I agree, I was just pointing out how a stupid idea already has roots in the comics. Maybe Iron Mask is E2 Eobard Thawne?
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Feb 24, 2016 06:29
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The Lord Bude posted:Why is the show taking a month off? LOL Canada
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Feb 24, 2016 06:33
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Welp another episode where I pretty much hated everything. If this break wasn't coming up I probably would've skipped a few episodes anyway because boy am I not liking what they've done with basically every character. More and more things are being said/done just for drama/plot/convenience's sake and so little feels earned that I just don't care while I'm watching anymore. Which could be fine except the show has stopped being fun. Oh now it's Barry's turn to have awkward family drama with Wally? Great idea super riveting television. Can't wait for the next step in the Flash storytelling procedure #24151, Barry thinks about telling Wally he's the Flash but decides not to for reasons that the show has proven are stupid countless times already. Just be fun again show, you're so god drat bad at being serious 
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Feb 24, 2016 06:41
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X-O posted:God I hate Barry at this point. He's just an rear end in a top hat. I think I'm pretty much done with this show until it has crossovers. Not to get sassy but it kind of seems like you're in here every week saying that. 
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Feb 24, 2016 06:43
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If it's actually Zoom having played them as Jay, and not that they're from different points in time or something, it's dumb as hell. Jay did nothing to actually undermine the group. He was the worst double agent ever. Koalas March posted:Weird, I thought we were talking about a TV show. In their world of medical nanites, shrinking doctors, magic healing herbs/water/etc. and a guy who can actually change matter at will it ain't healing her that's contrived.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:48
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X-O posted:God I hate Barry at this point. He's just an rear end in a top hat. I think I'm pretty much done with this show until it has crossovers. There's something about the way Barry's saying his lines now that really bothers me. It's kinda like- I dunno, his voice is cracking all the time like he's gonna have a big cry? Carlosologist posted:Whoever had Jay as Zoom, you win a prize! Zebulon posted:Oh hey Zoom is Jay, big surprise. Well gently caress, there goes my genius plan of just having Caitlyn or Barry fall in love with Zoom so he has to be removed from the show via death or being put on a Speedbus.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:51
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It's probably a train. Central City has a lot of trains.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:54
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If Zoom is the same Jay, then who did Zoom kill? It makes no sense.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:04
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Aphrodite posted:If it's actually Zoom having played them as Jay, and not that they're from different points in time or something, it's dumb as hell. The healing pools were destroyed, Ray is in another timeline, and using the only gay/ black character on Arrow who has been regulated to do nothing but uplift this basic bitch IN EVERY SCENE {seriously without him her company would have gone down in flames) to heal her of her paralysis is disgusting in multiple ways. Hell they could've had her refuse the treatment and accept that is who she is now, but nope. And honestly trotting out a disability and reversing it is so bad I shouldn't have to explain it to you.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:06
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I think the problem of this season isn't the lack of "fun" or whatever you call it. It's that the season seems largely unfocused. Last season it didn't feel like this. It felt like all the episodes had some merit to it and pushed the plot forward without forcing it. Especially around this time near the end, where the Eobard plot basically stepped out of the shadows and got kicked into high gear. This season feels like too much stuff was taking up time that could have been used better. The Patty romance subplot really contributed nothing in the end because of how it was handled, the meta of the week stuff was either unmemorable or acted as poor filler that didn't contribute much (Tar Pit, Geomancer, the Firestorm dude, Dr. Light, etc), and the team dynamics feel a lot weaker this season than last. This is kind of like the opposite of Arrow, where the first season was amazing and the second season pales in comparison. The Jay being Zoom reveal feels like the final nail in that coffin. JayZoom is just nowhere as interesting or compelling as Eobard was as a big season villain. The problem there is the writers did not commit time to make Jay compelling to the viewer before this reveal. Kreisberg says that Jay is like a friend and mentor to Barry, but frankly that's a huge "tell, not show" problem because Jay never got enough screen time to properly form bonds with the team. The character he interacted with most was Caitlin and that romance was always terribly written, even more so now that we know the truth. Attaching Jay to Zoom actually makes Zoom look a lot less interesting as a villain. Eobard worked because of the connection he shared with Barry, both as the man who ruined his life and the man who mentored him, even gave him his powers to begin with. He had a motive that felt sympathetic, even though his means were heinous, and I think I can honestly believe when he told Barry that he learned to care about him as a father would to a son (in his own sociopathic way.) There was genuine pathos to the character and to his bond with not just Barry, but Cisco and Caitlin as well. He was a man they all put so much trust in and the betrayal was played out in an organic way that doesn't exist here. I'll still keep watching because I enjoy watching the show, but I'm nowhere near as invested in what's going on as I was last season. It's really such a pity.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:15
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I don't believe for a single second that they had planned for Jay to be Zoom from the beginning.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:25
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At the very least, I'm glad Barry finally defeated an enemy by thinking on his own and not calling home base to get a pep talk.
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Feb 24, 2016 08:25
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My guess is time shenanigans and the man in the metal mask is either Jay or someone from the future like Thawne. ------A-------B-------C-----> It's like this: The original Earth 2 timeline has Jay being the Flash and becoming Zoom at some point C. Zoom then goes to the back in time too point B and beats Jay once and takes him with him to go even further back to the present at point A. Zoom is loving with his own timeline in a more isolated version of The One where he beats himself up and takes their speed or turns that Jay into the new Zoom. Unfortunately, the events on Earth 1 affect Earth 2 and the breaches appear which Zoom hadn't encountered in his original timeline. The complication then becomes Zoom has now just killed his past self rather than torturing and harassing himself.
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Feb 24, 2016 08:26
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Koalas March posted:And honestly trotting out a disability and reversing it is so bad I shouldn't have to explain it to you. Well don't let us stop you, you seem to love to do it.
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Feb 24, 2016 08:27
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Carlosologist posted:Whoever had Jay as Zoom, you win a prize! Rarity posted:I will laugh so loving hard if Jay Garrick is Zoom. 
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Feb 24, 2016 08:56
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Zoom is Eobard from Earth 2, he used his DNA thingy on Jay and because has Spped Force armor it didn't kill him. There I bet you guys didn't think it could get any worse.
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Feb 24, 2016 09:09
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Koalas March posted:The healing pools were destroyed, Ray is in another timeline, and using the only gay/ black character on Arrow who has been regulated to do nothing but uplift this basic bitch IN EVERY SCENE {seriously without him her company would have gone down in flames) to heal her of her paralysis is disgusting in multiple ways. Hell they could've had her refuse the treatment and accept that is who she is now, but nope. Really? I could understand the writers not healing her injury, but having her reject a cure for her disability would be super retarded. Koalas March posted:And honestly trotting out a disability and reversing it is so bad I shouldn't have to explain it to you. I bet you are super mad that Jay got his speed fixed too  Take it to the Arrow thread so this one isn't derailed. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 09:11
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So Zoom is one of two things. Either he is from yet another Earth and travels around sucking speed from his doppelgangers or he is cloning himself to suck the speed out of those.
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Feb 24, 2016 09:46
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mcswizzle posted:I'm thinking that he might be the real Hunter Zolomon. This. He's already been mentioned... it's the logical choice.
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Feb 24, 2016 10:20
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I bet you are super mad that Jay got his speed fixed too It's hella dumb to compare a fictional affliction to a real life disability with which it has no literal or figurative connections. Real people don't get speed cancer. Real people do have to sit in wheelchairs and watch how the media portrays characters who sit in wheelchairs. I'm not invested enough in Felicity as a character to care about her fake TV spinal recovery, but I think it's super skeevy to mock anyone who brings up how rightfully problematic it is to trot out people in wheelchairs for your sweeps week melodrama only to give them magical fake cures when it's no longer convenient to portray them that way.
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Feb 24, 2016 10:36
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Real people get spinal injuries that they recover from after time, too.
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Feb 24, 2016 12:48
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I genuinely can't wait to see how they explain this, because all possibilities are so stupid.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:37
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X-O posted:Executive Producer. quote:“They let this person in,” Kreisberg continues... This person and his thought processes are dumb. Very little about goodguy Jay's actions match up with Zoom's actions at all.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:39
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Aside from them both wanting their speed.
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Feb 24, 2016 13:41
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BrianWilly posted:I'm not invested enough in Felicity as a character to care about her fake TV spinal recovery, but I think it's super skeevy to mock anyone who brings up how rightfully problematic it is to trot out people in wheelchairs for your sweeps week melodrama only to give them magical fake cures when it's no longer convenient to portray them that way. Arrow is a show where a guy got stabbed in the kidney, lung, and kicked off the side of a mountain for a mid-season finale - and he lived! It just took bandages and penicillin tea. They also resurrected the corpse of a woman that had been dead for a year. Paralysis is barely a scratch in the Arrowverse.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:07
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Man, those Argus dudes are chumps. That's the oldest trick in the book!
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Feb 24, 2016 14:17
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X-O posted:God I hate Barry at this point. He's just an rear end in a top hat. I think I'm pretty much done with this show until it has crossovers. Bad Moon posted:Barry: "Felicity you used to call me on my cell phone X-O posted:
Koalas March posted:Hell they could've had her refuse the treatment and accept that is who she is now, but nope. Anyway, here's what I think's going on with Zoom. And I'm using the names we know the characters by for the sake of convenience. Facts: Zoom looks exactly like Jay. Zoom instructed Wells to steal Barry's speed. Zoom stated that he needs Wells to help him get faster. Jay says he lost his powers because of experiments to gain more speed. Jay doesn't trust Wells. Wells doesn't trust Jay. Official word is "Zoom is Jay". Wells recognised Jay as the Flash (verified in flashback). Wells claims responsibility for Zoom. Conjecture The man in the iron mask is also Jay. Wells used super-science to help Jay get faster. Wells created Zoom. Conclusion Jay Garrick was the Flash, but he, like Barry, always wanted to be faster. Harrison Wells, for whatever reason (possibly just the opportunity to study the speedforce) agreed to help him get faster. Wells tried to make Jay faster, but instead he split him into three different entities - a good speedster (the man in the iron mask), an evil speedster (Zoom) and his "human" side (Jay). Zoom just wants to be the fastest. He's all Jay's pride and ambition with nothing to hold him back. Iron mask is Jay's heroism and selflessness. He wants to stop Zoom, even if it means his own destruction. Jay is what's left. He wants to be what he was again (hence his experiments with the Velocity drugs) but lacking his ambition, pride, heroism and selflessness he isn't able to achieve anything. He can't fight Zoom, he's a coward, he runs away. When Zoom catches him, he immediately agrees to work for him. Hunter Zolomon is literally just E1 Jay Garrick and is a red herring.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:18
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Tiggum posted:
That sounds like a theory someone posted a few pages back where Iron Mask is the Ego, Jay Garrick we know is the Super Ego, and Zoom is the Id.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:42
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Yeah the executive producer says Zoom and the Jay that got stabbed are literally the same entity though. I don't know why he said anything honestly. It was dumb to talk extensively about that ending instead of letting it play out organically in the show.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:46
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Koalas March posted:The healing pools were destroyed, Ray is in another timeline, and using the only gay/ black character on Arrow who has been regulated to do nothing but uplift this basic bitch IN EVERY SCENE {seriously without him her company would have gone down in flames) to heal her of her paralysis is disgusting in multiple ways. Hell they could've had her refuse the treatment and accept that is who she is now, but nope. ...Did you just play the race card from the 3rd person?
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Feb 24, 2016 14:49
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Andrew Kreisberg has somehow made a more incomprehensible plot than Zybourne Clock. I'm not even mad, that's amazing.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:56
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greatn posted:Real people get spinal injuries that they recover from after time, too. Yeah, but in TV land it always happens in less than a season. Which just seems super disrespectful, like real paralyzed people are just too lazy to get over their messed up spines.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:56
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