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Tunicate posted:That said, the biggest issue with White Sand is one Brandon mentioned in his elantris commentary - putting in 11th hour twists for each character just for the sake of having them. Good lord yes. I just bought a copy of Elantris (I had read it before) to fill out the Sanderson section of my bookcase, and holy poo poo has Sanderson grown a lot as an author since then. He still gets bashed on for some of his characters being a bit shallow nowadays, but outside of Hrathen nobody has any growth or development as a character in Elantris. Raoden has interesting events happen around him, but he's a perfect ball of optimism and leadership from the moment we meet him and he doesn't really go anywhere from there. The stock Princess character is downright unpleasant in spots, and the attempted feisty relationship between the leads just comes off as weird. And like you alluded to the ending's pacing is a mess, with "revelations" that felt pointless Hey this one background character you forgot about is a famous pirate! He'll now briefly pick up an axe and then do absolutely nothing for the rest of the story? Look, a pirate!!! It's probably a good thing that the first Sanderson story I read was Mistborn, or I might have been permanently scared off from his stuff. It really speaks highly of him though how much he's grown as an author when comparing Elantris to The Emperor's Soul or Way of Kings.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:54
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Subvisual Haze posted:Good lord yes. I just bought a copy of Elantris (I had read it before) to fill out the Sanderson section of my bookcase, and holy poo poo has Sanderson grown a lot as an author since then. He still gets bashed on for some of his characters being a bit shallow nowadays, but outside of Hrathen nobody has any growth or development as a character in Elantris. Raoden has interesting events happen around him, but he's a perfect ball of optimism and leadership from the moment we meet him and he doesn't really go anywhere from there. The stock Princess character is downright unpleasant in spots, and the attempted feisty relationship between the leads just comes off as weird. And like you alluded to the ending's pacing is a mess, with "revelations" that felt pointless Hey this one background character you forgot about is a famous pirate! He'll now briefly pick up an axe and then do absolutely nothing for the rest of the story? Look, a pirate!!! Before revisions, it was even worse "I keep promising that I’ll tell you about some of the other silly character revelations I had pop up in the book. This one is particularly embarrassing. To be honest, I have NO idea what I was thinking."
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Feb 20, 2016 05:44
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Speaking of White Sand, according to Brandon's website, the White Sand graphic novel vol. 1 is 95% finished.
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Feb 20, 2016 09:22
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quote:“Ideas are never original,” Kelsier said. “Only one thing is.”  Ok I laughed really hard at this but
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Feb 21, 2016 03:49
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Yeah, I enjoyed that as soon as Kelsier died he started punching gods in the afterlife. Fight the power!
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Feb 21, 2016 05:58
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I'm interested to see how Kelsier managed to get a new body. Quite possibly with a lot of help from Spook and Marsh?
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Feb 21, 2016 10:07
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Lobsterpillar posted:I'm interested to see how Kelsier managed to get a new body. Quite possibly with a lot of help from Spook and Marsh? Brandon dropped a major hint in a wheel of time crossover joke fight he wrote in 2012
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Feb 21, 2016 11:03
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Lobsterpillar posted:I'm interested to see how Kelsier managed to get a new body. Quite possibly with a lot of help from Spook and Marsh? I'd bet it has to do with opening the host to influence from the cognitive realm. Probably both by being a little cracked and stuck through with a few spikes, explaining the eye-spike. Maybe Sazed even condoned it, letting there be an agent in the world that can help a little more directly without being concerned about greater cosmic threats. I wonder if Sazed can take control or kick him out of the host if he gets out of line.
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Feb 21, 2016 15:09
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Arrath posted:I'd bet it has to do with opening the host to influence from the cognitive realm. Probably both by being a little cracked and stuck through with a few spikes, explaining the eye-spike. Maybe Sazed even condoned it, letting there be an agent in the world that can help a little more directly without being concerned about greater cosmic threats. I wonder if Sazed can take control or kick him out of the host if he gets out of line. Depends on the number of spikes. 2 or more and he gets to play Harbinger. If it's just the eye spike he can talk but that's about it.
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Feb 21, 2016 18:38
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OAquinas posted:Depends on the number of spikes. 2 or more and he gets to play Harbinger. If it's just the eye spike he can talk but that's about it. Yeah, so far we only know of the one spike, there very well could be more.
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Feb 21, 2016 19:03
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Can the same spike be reused over and over until it has the whole set of (known) metallic arts?
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Feb 21, 2016 19:42
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Thyrork posted:Can the same spike be reused over and over until it has the whole set of (known) metallic arts? Perhaps in theory, but different metals only steal very specific qualities/powers. You can spike a steel misting with your pewter spike all you want, it won't take on their power. Only atium can steal any allomantic or ferruchemic quality, and even then we don't know if such serial spiking is even possible. Then there would be the matter of gathering said atium. Is there even any atium around, or does Harmony control it all? Edit: I guess Ironeyes has atium, otherwise he would have died of old age.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:40
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Koloss spikes are an example of stacking, but they only stacked for a single trait.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:41
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What would happen if you tried to make a spike out of a metal-mind? Or stabbed a missing with the bands of mourning? 
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Feb 21, 2016 20:52
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Lobsterpillar posted:I'm interested to see how Kelsier managed to get a new body. Quite possibly with a lot of help from Spook and Marsh? Regarding Kelsier he was stabbed to death with a spear by the Lord Ruler. That spear-tip should now be charged with a portion of Kelsier's soul. I would guess that's enough of an anchor for him to rebuild a physical body.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:31
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Subvisual Haze posted:Regarding Kelsier he was stabbed to death with a spear by the Lord Ruler. That spear-tip should now be charged with a portion of Kelsier's soul. I would guess that's enough of an anchor for him to rebuild a physical body. Nonmetal spear.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:59
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Subvisual Haze posted:Regarding Kelsier he was stabbed to death with a spear by the Lord Ruler. That spear-tip should now be charged with a portion of Kelsier's soul. I would guess that's enough of an anchor for him to rebuild a physical body. I reckon making a new body might include using Identity hacks to draw in Kelsiers cognitive self. If you got his identity into a spike, then jammed it into the body of a person you might be able to draw in Kelsier. The real question is, was the body Kelsier co-opted Spooks? Though with the timeline of the ecological catastrophe that was destroying the people of red and gold it seems unlikely as Spook was active for one hundred years post the Catasundra and I don't think they would have lasted more than a few months.
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Feb 21, 2016 22:30
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Do we know that the southern "lord ruler" wasn't spook?
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Feb 21, 2016 22:34
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mewse posted:Do we know that the southern "lord ruler" wasn't spook? Pretty sure. Spook was active for about a hundred years as Emperor, someone would have said something about him shoving a spike through his eye like an inquisitor at some point if he had done that. So it couldn't have been him, but it had to be someone who had shoved a spike in their eye or they wouldn't have been able to build the statue in their likeness.
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Feb 21, 2016 22:45
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Tunicate posted:Nonmetal spear. There's always another secret.
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Feb 22, 2016 01:16
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mewse posted:Do we know that the southern "lord ruler" wasn't spook? The man carried Hathsin scars.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:05
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Yeah, some possible mechanisms are: Identity hack, Kel is skinriding some poor shmo. Scars are part of his cognitive identity, but would they replicate on an extant person? Identity hack on a kandra, allowing for the scars to form no problem. Might be less smiled upon by Harmony though ??? Some way to let him cross back from cognitive to physical plane. But the timeline is still way off for him to be Southern Lord Ruler guy--he's just starting to experiment with Spook after the Catacendre. By the time he learns what he needs they'd be frozen solid. As for spike charges, Hemalurgy is like a cross between kabbalah and acupuncture on bad steroids. You have to stab with the right metal in the right area, then likewise with the implantation. And because you're impaling people with metal spikes it can get pretty messy to experiment, and of course it's easy to get wrong--even Khriss (who finds it fascinating) thinks its horrendously wasteful to experiment with. God metals can do some funky things (like, say, impart allomancy or feruchemy to kandra) but being god metals they're usually not that easy to come by. Atium and Lerasium are, of course, limited to what's out there now. Harmonium (Sazium?) could be an interesting thing to see.
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Feb 22, 2016 05:02
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Apparently if you burn atium you can intuit where to stab people for hemalurgy, which is a nice way of tying the systems together. could be an ID hack on a mistwraith. If the spikes make them sapient, kelsier might be able to just hijack one if he attunes a spike to himself somehow
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Feb 22, 2016 08:38
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I've wondered for along time what Sazium would do. If its an alloy of both its predecessors, maybe it'll allows for identifying the type of "arcane arts" the user you're looking at carries with them, regardless of where they come from? A "Scan" spell in metal form? I suppose the next questions would be; what kind of feruchemist would that make? Store the ability to understand things on a instinctive level? I cant love sanderson's magic systems enough, and they have been a huge inspiration for me to build more concrete ones myself. Really hope the stuff comes up in The Lost Metal.
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Feb 22, 2016 13:24
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We still lack a metal that makes somebody a ferruchemist.
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Feb 22, 2016 14:10
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Torrannor posted:We still lack a metal that makes somebody a ferruchemist. Native trait to the people of the planet, if I understood it correctly. Hmm, In that vein, assuming Ruin and Preservation weren't too unbalanced in creating humanity, it could be that Sazium will gift people with Ferruchemy when burned?
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Feb 22, 2016 14:53
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Thyrork posted:Native trait to the people of the planet, if I understood it correctly. Hmm, In that vein, assuming Ruin and Preservation weren't too unbalanced in creating humanity, it could be that Sazium will gift people with Ferruchemy when burned? That's my guess. Keep in mind that the right lerasium alloys make people into mistings of the respective alloy, i.e. an iron-lerasium alloy would make somebody an iron misting. So in that vein, pure sazium would make somebody a ferruchemist, sazium alloys make somebody a ferring. That would be a nice symmetry I think.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:16
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FYI Brandon has confirmed that it's called Harmonium. (because Harmony thinks it sounds better than Sazedium)
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Feb 22, 2016 23:54
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Torrannor posted:That's my guess. Keep in mind that the right lerasium alloys make people into mistings of the respective alloy, i.e. an iron-lerasium alloy would make somebody an iron misting. So in that vein, pure sazium would make somebody a ferruchemist, sazium alloys make somebody a ferring. That would be a nice symmetry I think. The question is How do you get an atium misting? The theory I like is that if you alloy lerasium with a charged metalmind it makes you the appropriate kind of ferring instead.
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Feb 23, 2016 00:31
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Hmmm. I wonder if melting or reforging a metal does anything to a feruchemical or hemalurgic charge in the metal? On that vein, can you use a molten metal as a metalmind? If so, a shame mercury isn't one of the metals. Does anyone think that the 'fuel metal' used by the southerners might be atium?
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Feb 23, 2016 00:38
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Lobsterpillar posted:Hmmm. I wonder if melting or reforging a metal does anything to a feruchemical or hemalurgic charge in the metal? You can split up or melt metalminds and they'll work just fine (unless you alloy them - then you've changed it too much, so you can't cheese the system by turning copperminds into brassminds). Spikes can be split up too, and both halves will work, but you lose some total power. Mercury was a metal in Mistborn Prime, and basically was a weird self-hypnosis memory power. No idea on the fuel metal. We know it's highly reactive with water, though. If it's related to cross-series stuff, the identity is clear: sOdium.
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Feb 23, 2016 02:09
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eszett engma posted:FYI Brandon has confirmed that it's called Harmonium. I'd be surprised if it doesn't grant all of the base powers at the bare minimum. Also Harmonium is going to probably turn out to be used in the eye spike that the Sovereign had. Or the spike will be a blend of metal like the Bands were. The spike would also be a means of Kelsier being able to return in the future, so his "I'll come back to you" comments to the people of the south might have been something he actually said and meant. The only question would be if his eye spike is in safe-keeping somewhere. Maybe Marsh has it because it seems really unlikely that Kelsier would come back and he wouldn't know, whether finding out on his own or being told directly by Kelsier/Sazed/Spook/whomever. [
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Feb 23, 2016 03:09
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Tunicate posted:Apparently if you burn atium you can intuit where to stab people for hemalurgy, which is a nice way of tying the systems together. Mistwraiths are kandra, just unspiked ones. They're also basically very rare/creatures of legend in the Basin; no idea where they went/if they still exist outside of the Kandra themselves. Lobsterpillar posted:Hmmm. I wonder if melting or reforging a metal does anything to a feruchemical or hemalurgic charge in the metal? Hemalurgic spikes need to be kept in a body/blood to retain potency, or they "bleed off" strength over time. Wax's earring is from a reforged Inquisitor spike, so it's possible to do but I imagine it's hell on the charge strength. Interestingly, if Wax kept it in he'd probably have an additional Allomantic power to go with his Coinshot ability, albeit weakly. Atium is VERY rare. The vast majority of it was accumulated by the Kandra, then burned up by the atium Mistings---this kept Ruin weak and allowed Vin to kill him. So there's only a small amount of it left in the world, and because Ati/Ruin doesn't exist as an independent entity anymore (and the Pits are destroyed) there's no more being created.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:00
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OAquinas posted:Mistwraiths are kandra, just unspiked ones. They're also basically very rare/creatures of legend in the Basin; no idea where they went/if they still exist outside of the Kandra themselves. Harmony is unbalanced towards Ruin because Preservation put more of himself into humanity than Ruin did - Sanderson acknowledged this in one of his Q&As - he very well may be balancing his two halves out by creating Atium.
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Feb 23, 2016 08:15
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OAquinas posted:Atium is VERY rare. The vast majority of it was accumulated by the Kandra, then burned up by the atium Mistings---this kept Ruin weak and allowed Vin to kill him. So there's only a small amount of it left in the world, and because Ati/Ruin doesn't exist as an independent entity anymore (and the Pits are destroyed) there's no more being created. The pits weren't destroyed completely, just the atium itself, and it was said it would take about 300 years to regenerate... If that's still the case due to the other stuff that went on is still to be seen, maybe they will produce Harmonium now.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:47
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RE: Atium - Bloody Tan in the Alloy of Law prologue seemed to be burning Atium. I know that Lessie wasn't on the up and up and possibly got herself shot deliberately based on Shadows of Self, but Tan explicitly is the one that pulls her into the path of the bullet.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:55
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Mortanis posted:RE: Atium - Bloody Tan in the Alloy of Law prologue seemed to be burning Atium. I know that Lessie wasn't on the up and up and possibly got herself shot deliberately based on Shadows of Self, but Tan explicitly is the one that pulls her into the path of the bullet. Its implied that Tan would have been killed by Wax's shot had Paalm not jerked her head into the path. Wax simply interprets this in retrospect as Tan being fast enough to yank Lessie into the path. That is, yank an entire body at the exact moment he fired, then stand there confused for a moment while Wax shot him too.
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Feb 25, 2016 05:18
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M_Gargantua posted:Its implied that Tan would have been killed by Wax's shot had Paalm not jerked her head into the path. Wax simply interprets this in retrospect as Tan being fast enough to yank Lessie into the path. That is, yank an entire body at the exact moment he fired, then stand there confused for a moment while Wax shot him too. More precisely, Harmony jerking her into the path of the bullet. Seeing the far future is a bit fuzzy, but knowing where the bullet's going to go, OTOH...
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Feb 25, 2016 05:42
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Apparently someone recently got a confirmation Tan wasn't burning atium. Which makes sense since where would he get it in the first place. No word on if he had steel feruchemy (which is overpowered as poo poo) though.
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Feb 25, 2016 06:12
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Yeah from my understanding Paalm was compelled by Harmony to fake her own death despite what it would do to Wax. Nothing to do with Bloody Tan burning atium.
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Feb 25, 2016 16:24
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