Los Angeles Super Chargers and the Las Vegas Pension Check Raiders

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Los Angeles Super Chargers and the Las Vegas Pension Check Raiders

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Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

Zurreco posted:

Comicon dominates downtown SD, so of course it was bound to come up.

Even when they built PetCo, Comicon quickly assimilated it and uses it for fun stuff during the event and everyone just kinda accepted it as an inevitable feature of being downtown. HOWEVER, PetCo is far enough away that the two can be treated as independent, and there's no way that the Padres are gonna compete with one of the biggest draws to the downtown area. Aside from Padres games and Comicon, people don't really go to downtown SD unless they wanna drink or go look at whales, and both activities are pretty isolated from the rest of the city.

That being said, when the Chargers talk about building a new arena anywhere near an already overutilized part of town, there are going to be direct conflicts that Spanos can't win. The convention center is surrounded by very expensive and very lucrative high rises that are definitely not for sale. The only thing remaining is the docks/train yard SE of the convention center that are partially federally owned and would probably be earmarked for a convention center expansion rather than a new stadium. Downtown is not a viable option.

Ok business conventions are the reason that the Gaslamp Quarter in its present form exists. Not the Padres and not locals. Convention traffic/money dwarfs everything else. Comic Con included! But thats still just one albeit popular convention.

The only real space to redevelop at this point is the bus terminal to the east of Petco. The rail and dock stuff isn't going anywhere. But IIRC the transit district/authority/whatever still has like a decade left on their lease of that land from the city.

Theres really no room downtown and any possible route would be so insanely complicated it has no chance.

Chinatown fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Feb 24, 2016

# ? Feb 24, 2016 07:25

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:57

Longpig Bard: Dec 29, 2004

JPrime posted:

Chargers are "focusing their efforts downtown": http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/02/23/chargers-focus-efforts-downtown

Worst euphemism ever.

Here's where that crazy homeless guy with the legal claim that Petco Park belongs to him is going to really gently caress things up. Chargers are going to deal with him and they'll reach an agreement to convert Petco into an MLB/NFL stadium.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 14:50

the mean lunch lady: Jun 24, 2009; went mad at sea
lots were drawn
Kroenke didn't survive
he was delicious

Bumming Your Scene posted:

Here's where that crazy homeless guy with the legal claim that Petco Park belongs to him is going to really gently caress things up. Chargers are going to deal with him and they'll reach an agreement to convert Petco into an MLB/NFL stadium.

whatttttttt

# ? Feb 24, 2016 18:26

Zypher: Sep 3, 2009; Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!

quote:

Derris Devon McQuaig took legal title to the downtown ballpark away from the city and the Padres two years ago by walking into the San Diego County Recorder�s Officer and submitting a properly filled-out deed transfer.

County and city officials have been quietly trying to remedy the situation ever since, but a felony fraud case against McQuaig was dismissed last week after a judge ruled he�s not mentally competent to be prosecuted.

Because no actual sale or transaction took place, government officials and real estate experts say there�s essentially no chance of McQuaig taking control of the property, which was recently appraised at $539 million and is slated to host its first All-Star game in July.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/dec/24/petco-park-mcquaig-title-transfer-bogus/

# ? Feb 24, 2016 18:36

Neil Armbong: Jan 16, 2004; If anybody wants to see, there's a Donkey Kong kill screen coming up.; Pillbug

Zypher posted:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/dec/24/petco-park-mcquaig-title-transfer-bogus/

That's amazing.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 19:04

Nail Rat: Dec 29, 2000; You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

They should make this into a Will Ferrell movie or something.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 19:34

wattershed: Dec 27, 2002; Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

CCDC (the development group for DTSD) and John Moores (former padres owner and general douche/real estate magnate) want to get their grubby hands on a stadium project downtown, and they're generally in good standing (or cahoots, depending on your POV) with the city officials. To say there's no room downtown is a misnomer because there's as much room as they want to strongarm a developer into giving them, to say nothing of the non-private property that will become a little looser to divvy up or free to redevelopment projects. The trolley depot, while a LOVELY building :rolleyes:

, would get razed in a heartbeat if it meant dropping a stadium right there and building an Indianapolis-style corridor between the new stadium and an expanded convention center.

ComicCon is a week-long income-producing plus for the area but I don't think it's going to drive an expansion effort, I really don't. The benefit is less what they provide, and more a matter of what conventions we're currently missing out on hosting due to the size of the current convention center. If we're okay with losing the chargers I'm not sure there's going to be a big push for building out the convention center separately.

Downtown on its own has really become a vibrant place with a number of entertainment options. It's had a reputation for a generation as this lovely dump that you stayed away from and it's hard to get people who've grown up here thinking differently, but I work down here and there's a ton being built and some quality "arts & entertainment"-type places filling the buildings.

Of course, my employer's looking to close a lease on a few floors in a building that would put us smack dab between the padres and chargers stadiums were the downtown option to become a reality, so I'm already a bit biased about that as the best option, but placing a stadium there will act as a bridge toward Barrio Logan's arts district that, don't look now, has suddenly become a chic neighborhood and would become insanely popular on gamedays for pre and post-game drinks.

None of this matters though if the public's not going to support a vote for that money and I cannot envision a way that happens unless the Chargers are undefeated up through election day in November.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 23:19

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

For what it's worth there's like a yearly push by Anaheim and/or Los Angeles to steal Comic-Con that is probably inevitable unless Comic Con finds a way to grow or Hollywood starts to care about it less.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 23:20

Glass of Milk: Dec 22, 2004; to forgive is divine

There will be no "public money" used in building the Stadium, most likely.

Well, not exactly.

It will do some fun stuff with the hotel tourism tax and make it so they have incentive to funnel the money to building the convention center portion of the project. The Chargers will then foot their own portion of the bill for the stadium.

The issue is whether or not that tax increase will require a 2/3 vote or simple majority, which is going to be the argument, unless they've got some other brilliant idea on how to fund the thing.

# ? Feb 24, 2016 23:38

Zurreco: Dec 27, 2004; Cutty approves.

Rick posted:

For what it's worth there's like a yearly push by Anaheim and/or Los Angeles to steal Comic-Con that is probably inevitable unless Comic Con finds a way to grow or Hollywood starts to care about it less.

SD has already said that they would gladly expand the CC in order to keep Comicon.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 00:33

wattershed: Dec 27, 2002; Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

Even then, I don't see a simple 51% being achieved. You look at the makeup of the urban voter in SD now and it's a far cry from the days of the 80s/90s when the defense industry was such a large part of the city's employer base. Now the city is biotech and tourism and the people who live in the city are younger and far more liberal. They're as much beer nerds and soccer players are they are football fans. The people with the money for season tickets are your average suburbanites who live outside city limits, not to mention the fans in cities like Oceanside/Vista/Chula Vista who (generally speaking) may not have the money for season tickets but represent a HUGE chunk of the population attending games via one-off ticket purchases.

And they'll have no say in November.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 00:34

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

wattershed posted:

And they'll have no say in November.

For some reason I thought they would, since there will likely be county money involved?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 01:42

wattershed: Dec 27, 2002; Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

All I continue to see is "city and county officials discussed...." which would imply the whole county burdens the load, but whenever I read a proposal it speaks of occupancy taxes and that needing a 2/3rds vote from the city. I'd love to be wrong because I'd imagine it's got a much better shot of passing if it were a county vote.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 02:14

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

What is wrong with San Diego people if you don't pass this? If there's one thing I'd pay extra taxes for it's a kickass downtown stadium that would bring the superbowl to town and keep the football team in town.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 02:20

FUCKFACE MORON: Apr 23, 2010; by sebmojo

kiimo posted:

What is wrong with San Diego people if you don't pass this? If there's one thing I'd pay extra taxes for it's a kickass downtown stadium that would bring the superbowl to town and keep the football team in town.

Yeah but how many die-hard Chargers fans truly live in San Diego? The big reason you see a lot of opposing fans at Chargers games is because of the transplants.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 03:29

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

wattershed posted:

CCDC (the development group for DTSD) and John Moores (former padres owner and general douche/real estate magnate) want to get their grubby hands on a stadium project downtown, and they're generally in good standing (or cahoots, depending on your POV) with the city officials. To say there's no room downtown is a misnomer because there's as much room as they want to strongarm a developer into giving them, to say nothing of the non-private property that will become a little looser to divvy up or free to redevelopment projects. The trolley depot, while a LOVELY building , would get razed in a heartbeat if it meant dropping a stadium right there and building an Indianapolis-style corridor between the new stadium and an expanded convention center.

ComicCon is a week-long income-producing plus for the area but I don't think it's going to drive an expansion effort, I really don't. The benefit is less what they provide, and more a matter of what conventions we're currently missing out on hosting due to the size of the current convention center. If we're okay with losing the chargers I'm not sure there's going to be a big push for building out the convention center separately.

Downtown on its own has really become a vibrant place with a number of entertainment options. It's had a reputation for a generation as this lovely dump that you stayed away from and it's hard to get people who've grown up here thinking differently, but I work down here and there's a ton being built and some quality "arts & entertainment"-type places filling the buildings.

Of course, my employer's looking to close a lease on a few floors in a building that would put us smack dab between the padres and chargers stadiums were the downtown option to become a reality, so I'm already a bit biased about that as the best option, but placing a stadium there will act as a bridge toward Barrio Logan's arts district that, don't look now, has suddenly become a chic neighborhood and would become insanely popular on gamedays for pre and post-game drinks.

None of this matters though if the public's not going to support a vote for that money and I cannot envision a way that happens unless the Chargers are undefeated up through election day in November.

Ask Seattle about how much public votes matter to construction project approval.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 03:44

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

kiimo posted:

What is wrong with San Diego people if you don't pass this? If there's one thing I'd pay extra taxes for it's a kickass downtown stadium that would bring the superbowl to town and keep the football team in town.

San Diego is quite conservative and the idea of more taxes in California usually gets met with, "haha, go gently caress yourselves, nope". Which I happen to agree with honestly.

Increasing the hotel tax is really the only option I support because it just takes more money from tourists and gently caress tourists STAY OUT OF THE FAST LANE ASSHOLES.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:29

Glass of Milk: Dec 22, 2004; to forgive is divine

kiimo posted:

What is wrong with San Diego people if you don't pass this? If there's one thing I'd pay extra taxes for it's a kickass downtown stadium that would bring the superbowl to town and keep the football team in town.

Financially speaking, public financing of a stadium is lovely for cities.

Playing devil's advocate, if you're going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, invest in infrastructure, business development, etc. How about a non-lovely public transportation system?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:30

a neat cape: Feb 22, 2007; Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Glass of Milk posted:

How about a non-lovely public transportation system?

I don't get it

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:33

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

Glass of Milk posted:

How about a non-lovely public transportation system?

Eat poo poo non-car havers.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:35

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Glass of Milk posted:

Playing devil's advocate, if you're going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, invest in infrastructure, business development, etc. How about a non-lovely public transportation system?

What are you thinking? Keep in mind San Diego isn't exactly compact.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:38

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

Chinatown posted:

Eat poo poo non-car havers.

This is a real dumb mentality to have

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:38

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

Metapod posted:

This is a real dumb mentality to have

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:49

FUCKFACE MORON: Apr 23, 2010; by sebmojo

Chinatown posted:

Eat poo poo non-car havers.

ur dumb

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:50

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

DO YALL WANT A HAM posted:

ur dumb

my windows are rolled all the way up and I got jim rome on the stereo so I cant hear this post

# ? Feb 25, 2016 04:56

Glass of Milk: Dec 22, 2004; to forgive is divine

Ross Angeles posted:

I don't get it

Chinatown posted:

Eat poo poo non-car havers.

computer parts posted:

What are you thinking? Keep in mind San Diego isn't exactly compact.

My favorite story to relate the crappiness of San Diego transit:

Monday night football, 2012, Broncos at Qualcomm. I'm two hours early for kickoff with the wife, we're on the 15 trying to get into the stadium which is mobbed, as in traffic not moving for minutes at a time. Nonetheless, we get off at Friars road only to discover the parking lot is full. Ok, still an hour early, let's head to hazard center and ride the trolley in. We get to the station with half an hour to spare. There are two ticket dispensers, neither of which is working. Rather than selling tickets from the nearby booth, the employee is poking at one of the machines to get it going. 10 minutes before kickoff, we're third in line for the machine when it finally starts working. At about kickoff time, we get to the front of the line- the tickets can only be dispensed one at a time. You have to have a separate transaction for each one. Fine, we get our tickets and wait for the next trolley.

It's full. And the next one. And the next one.

We finally squeeze into a car crammed to the gills. The first quarter is over by now, but there are only four stops to Qualcomm, right?

A six-minute ride becomes a 20-minute ride and we get to our seats with the Chargers up 24-0 with about 2 minutes left in the second quarter.

The Chargers never score again in the game, eventually losing 35-24.

We take a cab back to Hazard Center.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:27

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

Are you saying.....going to an NFL game sucks rear end?

STOP THE PRESSES.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:38

v2vian man: Sep 1, 2007; Only question I
ever thought was hard
was do I like Kirk
or do I like Picard?

Chinatown posted:

my windows are rolled all the way up and I got jim rome on the stereo so I cant hear this post

your doing great at trolling. real pleasure to read. thanks

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:38

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

The animated retard corpse by the name of Jerry Jones' dumb and boring billion dollar stadium doesn't even have public transit so...

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:39

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

i hope this works so the raiders can go to la

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:40

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

v2vian man posted:

your doing great at trolling. real pleasure to read. thanks

I floor it past people waiting at bus stops to remind them of my transportational superiority.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 05:47

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

public transportation sucks, i enjoy my rear end being warmed by my cars heated seats when its 60 degrees or lower thank you very much

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:37

FUCKFACE MORON: Apr 23, 2010; by sebmojo

Chinatown posted:

I floor it past people waiting at bus stops to remind them of my transportational superiority.

You literally don't understand why people use public transit do you

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:39

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

DO YALL WANT A HAM posted:

You literally don't understand why people use public transit do you

housing inequality does not exist in San Diego (America's finest city) so clearly it is their preference, which is inferior

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:43

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

chupacabraTERROR posted:

public transportation sucks, i enjoy my rear end being warmed by my cars heated seats when its 60 degrees or lower thank you very much

I rode in a car with cooling seats the other day. Cool idea, but every time I turned them on I felt like I had to poo poo.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:44

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

that's a feature, actually.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:45

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

If San Diego is so conservative that they can't handle a small bump in taxes for a glorious downtown stadium that catapults them to first-rate venue and first-rate city frankly then they deserve to have the pathetic Chargers move to Los Angeles and get raped by Kroenke every day for continuing to shelter them. And they should never blame an NFL owner again. Look inward.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:54

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

kiimo posted:

If San Diego is so conservative that they can't handle a small bump in taxes for a glorious downtown stadium that catapults them to first-rate venue and first-rate city frankly then they deserve to have the pathetic Chargers move to Los Angeles and get raped by Kroenke every day for continuing to shelter them. And they should never blame an NFL owner again. Look inward.

If the stadium is so profitable for its owners, why do taxes need to be raised? Businesses small and large undergo expansion all the time by using private financing, why should this be any different? I get that other cities have split the baby but indulge me and tell me, using financial rather than emotional reasons, why a city as broke as San Diego should feel compelled to raise taxes for this?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 07:06

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Fine, don't have a team. idc

# ? Feb 25, 2016 07:08

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:57

moon demon: Sep 11, 2001; of the moon, of the dream

Volkerball posted:

Fine, don't have a team. idc

Someone's gotta stand up to these pricks.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 07:09

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