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Unimpressed posted:As above, weapon, armour, fighting, shields, evo, dodging and throwing. Also, why are you wearing an amulet of magic regen as a VsBe^Trog? It's not greyed out so I assume it still works? I didn't have any other amulet. So I was thinking of taking this guy and making a needle stabber. How do I do that? Do I need super high throwing investment?
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Feb 25, 2016 21:40
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Unimpressed posted:As above, weapon, armour, fighting, shields, evo, dodging and throwing. Also, why are you wearing an amulet of magic regen as a VsBe^Trog? Vs have spirit shield as a racial mutation, so magic regen helps them a little.
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Feb 25, 2016 21:43
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Serephina posted:I don't get this. Labyrinths are fun, and objectively so. Little kids get given mazes on workbooks, adults wander through trimmed hedges or halls of mirrors. If one does not personally enjoy the portal, then don't enter it. They're low-risk, low-reward and entirely optional. If the sight of that particular timed portal really grinds one's gears, then pretend it was an Ice Cave you don't have the gear for and let it expire. They aren't low-risk low-reward though, the rewards from labyrinths can be extremely good. A single good artifact or rod if you are using evocations is worth the trip, and quite often I come out with wands of heal wounds or teleport as well. Anyways the difference between a labyrinth and the examples you provided is a labyrinth is entirely random. They can be solved quickly or take an eternity through no fault of the player, as sometimes the layout is just idiotic. On top of that it occasionally shifts so you can't really map it out either, not that you should be required to do so. Wasting 10+ minutes wandering through endless stone walls is not fun. Also I'll fully admit this is a niche complaint but whatever; it bugs me that sometimes they inflate my turn count by a large amount through pure RNG, since I've been trying to finish the game faster. I can't turn down potentially game-changing loot though. Floodkiller posted:Edit: I think labyrinths would be better if they were a maze of those vaults, instead of just a plain maze. Unfortunately, that would mean that a lot more mini vaults would need to be created (in addition to altering the level gen code), which would be a lot of work and effort for a one level, (maybe) once a game area. This would be my preferred change. Make them huge mazes of mini vaults, where instead of wandering around empty halls you're trying to figure out the best way to reach the center while avoiding the vaults that will destroy you. More interesting challenge that wouldn't take an eternity to complete if the RNG hates you.
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Feb 25, 2016 21:57
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Sage Grimm posted:Magic Shield. And/or a lack of other options. Oh, I missed the magic shield...
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Feb 25, 2016 21:59
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Internet Kraken posted:
This sounds like one of those awful changes that the devs would make for the people who play online. Offline tiles is the premium blend of crawl.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:01
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Honestly, I didn't realize people actually enjoyed labyrinths the way they are  BigFactory posted:This sounds like one of those awful changes that the devs would make for the people who play online. You can't watch people die horribly offline though.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:02
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Internet Kraken posted:Honestly, I didn't realize people actually enjoyed labyrinths the way they are It's a maze. It isn't offensive to me, but it's not exactly screaming innovation. At least there's no Sokobon yet.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:06
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Yeah, I love labyrinths and only rarely experience one that is actually frustrating. I think they could be made a bit more difficult if anything. Maybe add lesser-Minotaurs that are spread out throughout and keep one souped up special one at the end? I just find them to be always worth the minor risk because unless there's some terrible luck, it's no big hassle to make my way through it for some nice loot piles.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:20
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Lately I've been running into lots of hungry ghosts which, given the only real risk in the lab is getting lost and running out of food, is a nice touch. Not that it's a real risk mind you. I like the lab, searching around for the vault, heightens the anticipation of loot. It's certainly my favourite offshoot.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:32
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FulsomFrank posted:Yeah, I love labyrinths and only rarely experience one that is actually frustrating. I think they could be made a bit more difficult if anything. Maybe add lesser-Minotaurs that are spread out throughout and keep one souped up special one at the end? I just find them to be always worth the minor risk because unless there's some terrible luck, it's no big hassle to make my way through it for some nice loot piles. Honestly, with the packs of gargoyles and minotaurs that pick up longbows and take off half my health per attack, labs seem dangerous enough. If you get one late or your character is well suited to killing those kind of enemies it's a breeze but you can say that about every timed vault, even the really dangerous ones like baileys or wiz labs.
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Feb 25, 2016 23:36
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It's pretty rare now that you could find a labyrinth before you have access to dig or disint, now that they identify on pick-up. Just dig through the rock parts if you get stuck, and the rest doesn't seem to take very long after that.
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Feb 25, 2016 23:37
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BigFactory posted:This sounds like one of those awful changes that the devs would make for the people who play online. I thought so too, and am still adjusting to playing online. But the one advantage I think online play gets the extra spice of dealing with other player ghosts. So many interesting and threatening leftovers, that I've had to get much better at escaping and abandoning floors. And I guess relaxing and watching someone else has it's advantages as well.
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Feb 25, 2016 23:38
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Matlock Birthmark posted:I thought so too, and am still adjusting to playing online. But the one advantage I think online play gets the extra spice of dealing with other player ghosts. So many interesting and threatening leftovers, that I've had to get much better at escaping and abandoning floors. You can watch other people play without dealing with the lag and worse interface. Offline also removes the competitive aspect of it where IMO a lot of the buttheads come in. No offense to buttheads obviously. But there's no need to do half the weird stuff people do and the devs try to discourage when you're just playing against yourself. It's very peaceful. BigFactory fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 00:20
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I don't really understand what "weird stuff" you're talking about at all.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:26
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IronicDongz posted:I don't really understand what "weird stuff" you're talking about at all. Obnoxious but marginally beneficial behavior (or just useless behavior) that people feel/felt compelled to do to get higher on leaderboards. Like swapping regen rings after every fight or carrying high $ value items out of the exit.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:37
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BigFactory posted:You can watch other people play without dealing with the lag and worse interface. True about watching other people without playing online. Though you'll have to enlighten me on the worse interface, as I personally haven't had any issues. Lag is an issue, but at the same time for me it's not as big a negative as it forces me to slow the gently caress down a bit, which is my #1 cause of death. And weird stuff and buttheads? I'm afraid I don't understand what you are referring too. I've only been playing online for the last two weeks though. Edit: Oh. okay, that weird stuff. Um, not sure that bothers "I haven't beaten this game more than 10 times" me.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:37
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Matlock Birthmark posted:True about watching other people without playing online. Though you'll have to enlighten me on the worse interface, as I personally haven't had any issues. Lag is an issue, but at the same time for me it's not as big a negative as it forces me to slow the gently caress down a bit, which is my #1 cause of death. You don't get the same gui online. Offline is way better. It's very laid back and relaxing. You should try it. It's like playing golf by yourself, just for the love of the game. Or tidying up the garage for that sense of personal self satisfaction.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:40
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I play online cause I like it keeping track of all my games. I definitely ain't competitive about play (until the tournament that is). The lag from online has also made me better cause I have to wait a second or two before putting in another command so I find myself thinking things through more often. Plus killing other people's ghosts rule. BigFactory posted:You don't get the same gui online. EDIT: Also having easy access to most update Trunk is nice. But play what ya' like, it is just a game 
World Famous W fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 00:44
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Offline you don't kill other people's ghosts, only your own. You're overcoming your past failures. It's very poetic. Offline tiles is a quality product. The best, I say.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:46
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I really like labyrinths as they are, relatively high risk/high reward, but nothing too crazy if you're prepared. My last game had the cheap tactic of putting a bailey and an ice cave on the same orc 1 level, but that level was split up so I couldn't get to either before they expired. I was pissed, but was thinking at the same time "thank goodness that wasn't the labyrinth". Probably my favourite of the side levels, other than the bazaar obvs. I prefer offline too, just feels more responsive. I'll go online to watch other guys do stuff but generally won't play that way. But I also feel ghosts don't really add anything very important to the game other than arbitrary road bumps at low levels, negligible rewards at high levels, or rarely that sweet spot in between where you get a nice bag of xp (and nothing else) for taking one on. They do have a funny meta-presence, especially if the player the ghost is of is in your chat, but other than that I'd be 100% fine with them being removed entirely.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:11
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I played only offline when I was overseas because of lag, but now I play entirely online. Things I like about online play: 1. The record keeping so I can push myself to eventually become a greatplayer with a 5%+ winrate. 2. GUI that shows visible monsters in the lower-right. 3. Accessible from any computer. 4. Trunk updates. Things I liked about offline play: 1. No lag. 2. Get to fight my own ghosts, feels like I'm avenging my own past mistakes (or dying to them again  )3. You can use the mouse. 4. Can mess around with wizmode, or with suboptimal combos without ruining my stats. So really, both are good.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:28
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Online ghosts are much more interesting and variable because I typically only play one type of character. The online UI is a lot less cluttered and honestly, having my runs archived is way more important than anything offline offers. It's very cool to see all your information as a player.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:34
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I also wondered, is there a list somewhere of goon's webtiles profiles? Sometimes I want to look at ya'll's but never ask. Mine, in case anyone cares.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:39
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BigFactory posted:Obnoxious but marginally beneficial behavior (or just useless behavior) that people feel/felt compelled to do to get higher on leaderboards. Like swapping regen rings after every fight or carrying high $ value items out of the exit. Also putting on regen after every fight is something that you can't do anymore, since it's an amulet now and once you put it on it only starts working once you hit max HP! LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 01:39
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IronicDongz posted:Almost no one does that stuff, though. And I'm pretty positive that the value of items has not contributed to score for a long, long time-the only things that matter are "did you win", "how fast did you win if you won", "how many runes", "what XL", and then a very small amount of points for how much gold you had with a hard cap(apparently typically makes up <1% of the total score). And this is me looking at a wiki page that hasn't been updated since 0.14! I said the game was changed because of the way people played or thought they had to play, because people are buttheads. This is valuable dev time we'll never get back, along with that old transmuter starting book and singularity.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:43
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are you seriously complaining about the loss of carried items contributing to final score. i'm just gonna warn you: however many hours (minutes?) of valuable developer time were lost to that change, a hundred times more were lost to europa universalis iv.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:46
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BigFactory posted:I said the game was changed because of the way people played or thought they had to play, because people are buttheads. This is valuable dev time we'll never get back, along with that old transmuter starting book and singularity. *very long ago
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Feb 26, 2016 01:48
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IronicDongz posted:But these were good changes? You yourself just complained about regen swapping being 'optimal', and now it's been changed so it isn't. Hauling high value items out of the dungeon for score was dumb, so now* it's been changed so it doesn't work that way and the game is better for it. I used to keep regen rings on full time like God intended.
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Feb 26, 2016 02:35
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World Famous W posted:I also wondered, is there a list somewhere of goon's webtiles profiles? Sometimes I want to look at ya'll's but never ask. I think a lot of us use the same name as our forum handle. Mine is here.
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Feb 26, 2016 02:50
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BigFactory posted:I used to keep regen rings on full time like God intended.
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Feb 26, 2016 02:55
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PleasingFungus posted:are you seriously complaining about the loss of carried items contributing to final score. Offline tiles is a real good product PF. Doesn't get enough props.
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Feb 26, 2016 03:00
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Runes should still take up inventory slots
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Feb 26, 2016 03:04
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As long as they don't remove the ability to toggle rune auto-pickup. I just get a bigger feeling of accomplishment by stepping on the running and pressing 'g'.
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Feb 26, 2016 03:11
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Where's the morgue of the guy with 90 strength and 800 demonic runes
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Feb 26, 2016 03:11
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Runes should still take up inventory slots The ORB should still be wieldable so we can bash Sigmund to death with it and make new players ask "why do people keep wielding the ORB before they ascend" e: wasn't there a banner for chucking it in lava in some long-ago tourney?
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Feb 26, 2016 03:12
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code:
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Feb 26, 2016 03:24
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Angry Diplomat posted:The ORB should still be wieldable so we can bash Sigmund to death with it and make new players ask "why do people keep wielding the ORB before they ascend" Maurice should be able to steal the Orb.
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Feb 26, 2016 03:30
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IronicDongz posted:Well, now other people swapping all the time isn't a thing and you can still wear an amulet which frees up your ring slots for resists! Well yeah, the devs were trying to get everyone to play like me. They hung up a big no buttheads allowed sign. Only sad part is that they had to do it in the first place!
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Feb 26, 2016 03:54
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Floodkiller posted:Maurice should be able to steal the Orb. Then he runs for the exit and you have to stop him.
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Feb 26, 2016 03:58
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I don't think any of that tedious "optimal gameplay" was because people wanted to show off for their online scoresheet.
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Feb 26, 2016 04:39
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