Auspol February: The NRL Really Screwed The Pooch

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol February: The NRL Really Screwed The Pooch

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BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

can you please link pavel instead of embedding for those of us at work :smith:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:30

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# ? May 28, 2024 14:48

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

open24hours posted:

Can't win 'em all. It's better to at least try to change the views of middle Australia than to change your policies like a weathervane though, surely?

Oh right. Better to be permanently in opposition so you can throw poo poo, "remain pure" and not actually be responsible for implementing anything. #greenvoter

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:33

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

BBJoey posted:

can you please link pavel instead of embedding for those of us at work

sorry, I've been trying to get sfw Pavels (hint: it's harder than finding a left leaning alp policy)

:nws:

http://i.imgur.com/Bl7jJWF.jpg?fb :nws:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:37

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

EvilElmo posted:

Oh right. Better to be permanently in opposition so you can throw poo poo, "remain pure" and not actually be responsible for implementing anything. #greenvoter

Wait, so first you are giving the greens poo poo because they get stuff done with the LNP, now you are giving them poo poo for never getting anything done.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:37

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

If the Greens didn't have any influence they wouldn't get the kind of attention they do and would just be a sad joke like the Democrats or the Sex Party. That people like you care so much shows how influential they are.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:37

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

EvilElmo posted:

Oh right. Better to be permanently in opposition so you can throw poo poo, "remain pure" and not actually be responsible for implementing anything. #greenvoter

If that thing is going to be concentration camps to win middle Australia, yes?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:37

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Zenithe posted:

Had some time to look into the Safe Schools propaganda business. This one is from George "fight me irl" Christensen

This kind of format is ripe for abuse, and I'd actually like to see it done with politicians just to see if they think the comparison is fair in any way. First thing to note is that ALL of these links are under links for local organisations that support them, not as direct resources. All of the resources are on their separate page, and appear to be self contained within Safe Schools.

Firstly top right, family planning NSW (seriously?). Of course it has some sexual content, but all is presented in a factual manner, and feature many questions that teenagers may want answers to. Most laughably though, is the "features oral sex information for youth". This actually does exist, although specifically it is the results of a survey regarding what young people know about oral sex, and doesn't even contain advice. It's just a survey with such revelations as, the most common query regarding it was about health and safety regarding STDs. Almost like they could have benefited from a better sex ed program.

Going clockwise, Twenty10, and the claim that they "hosted" an S&M workshop. No idea what that means, but I found no evidence of their involvement in any such thing.

Next is Seahorse Victoria, a transgender support organisation, and the claim that a sex club is a "recommended venue". Firstly, it isn't a recommended venue, it is on a list of trans friendly venues, a list which also contains things like cafes and bars. Secondly, its a fetish club, not a sex club, and I'm no expert but I believe those are not the same thing. The other one on the list is clearly marked as an 18+ website, and you may see, has no even tenuous contact with Safe Schools. It's the same street address as a venue that is trans friendly.

Moving along to Minus18, an LGBT youth group that was behind that ball that got supported by homophobes and everyone lold. Firstly their link to a "gay bar". It isn't a gay bar for starters, it's a hotel that hosts all kinds of LGBT events, called the GH hotel. Also, the "event partner" part of the claim I assume is referring to the fact that one of Minus18's events was there. What was it? An under 21s dance party. Apparently there is a direct link to a sex toy site? I couldn't find it, although the site seems to be pretty massive, it might be there. Lastly is Scarletteen, which appears to pretty much be sex ed aimed at teens, and fairly innocuous.

Oh yeah, and apparently there is an explicit video on youtube (you can report these btw) linked to by workingitout. I couldn't find it. I can't help but feel if this is the extent of the controversy, we're in for a thoroughly uninteresting inquiry.

Ironically, the image posted on twitter is far more explicit than anything I came across.

*ahem*

If I might offer a rebuttal:

Gays bad.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:38

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Frogmanv2 posted:

It is fun adding to the debate like most of the posters in here.

If I was unemployed I would have spent some time coming up with a snappy poem or something to post.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:42

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

see I was kind of stunned when the ALP released a policy that made sense (if anyone can tell me wtf "Your Child Our Future" actually means that's much appreciated ta) that I didn't know where they got it from.

So I googled Greens negative gearing policy and it turns out Scott Ludlam proposed it be scrapped last year and proceeds put into community housing or somesuch.

My understanding is that the CGT discount reduction was costed by the Greens and was considered but wasn't an official policy yet

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:43

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

EvilElmo posted:

It is fun adding to the debate like most of the posters in here.

If I was unemployed I would have spent some time coming up with a snappy poem or something to post.

What is your response to the fact that the Greens vote with the Libs less than anyone else in Parliament

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:44

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

If that thing is going to be concentration camps to win middle Australia, yes?

Finally. A Green admitting their policies dont resonate with the wider Australian public.

The ALP has the option to become the Greens and just protest while the Lib/Nats do whatever they want in Government. Slowly picking up more ALP senate and lower house spots as a result.

Or you know, represent Australia.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:44

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

I like how Elmo implied he would answer how he justifies voting for ALP policies if only people would answer his question first and some people actually believed him :allears:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:45

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Still waiting on that CT policy. Someone posted metadata earlier. So just want to see what the Greens better ideas are.

Like I mean a policy on getting out of Afghanistan is great and all.. but we only have 252 officers there. So not sure what the fuss is.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:47

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

EvilElmo posted:

Finally. A Green admitting their policies dont resonate with the wider Australian public.

The ALP has the option to become the Greens and just protest while the Lib/Nats do whatever they want in Government. Slowly picking up more ALP senate and lower house spots as a result.

Or you know, represent Australia.

I too think that focus groups are a good replacement for policy development.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:47

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

EvilElmo posted:

Finally. A Green admitting their policies dont resonate with the wider Australian public.

The ALP has the option to become the Greens and just protest while the Lib/Nats do whatever they want in Government. Slowly picking up more ALP senate and lower house spots as a result.

Or you know, represent Australia.

We've already got one LNP, we don't need another one.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:47

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Or maybe not normalise offshore processing by just falling in line with LNP policy, and rather having a spine. Ramping up the offshore policy in the lead up to the 2013 election didn't help the ALP at all.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:48

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

elmo are you friendlyjordies' unfunny off-camera alter ego?

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:49

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Solemn Sloth posted:

I too think that focus groups are a good replacement for policy development.

Great policy isnt objective. Nor does it sell itself.

Since the Greens apparently have the best policy. They still only got 8% with a swing against them at the last election.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:49

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Amoeba102 posted:

Or maybe not normalise offshore processing by just falling in line with LNP policy, and rather having a spine. Ramping up the offshore policy in the lead up to the 2013 election didn't help the ALP at all.

And the Greens policy doesnt help them at that election. The result at 2013 was better than expected for the ALP and worse for the Greens.

The ALP made changes under Rudd. The public didn't like them.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:50

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Elmo, the only argument you're making is that we should vote the LNP because they formed government and better represent middle Australia. So why bother with the ALP at all I guess.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:51

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

EvilElmo posted:

And the Greens policy doesnt help them at that election. The result at 2013 was better than expected for the ALP and worse for the Greens.

Given the coalition won the election, surely the ALP should just copy every policy wholeheartedly.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:53

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Maybe if offshore detention didn't have bipartisan support fewer people would think it was a humane and reasonable policy? :shrug:

e:Like, I'm not sure you realise we don't live in a direct democracy. Parties are supposed to have principles and core values that voters identify with, so that they can choose which party best represents them. If parties don't have core values, and are simply populist weathervanes, no one actually feels represented, because there is no reason to believe the party will hold to anything.

WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:55

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Our only option is to join the Libs and try and change it from within. They form government more often, makes sense. Can't change policy without a majority in the lower house.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:55

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

EvilElmo posted:

Still waiting on that CT policy. Someone posted metadata earlier.

hi evil elmo i googled "greens counter terrorism policies" and got these links

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/12/24/overhaul-australias-counter-terror-laws-needed-greens

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-11/greens-say-social-cohesion-organisation-could-stop-terrorism/5806060

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-02/citizenship-changes-could-expose-australians-to-more-terrorism/6992562

if you have time later i can teach you how to google

EvilElmo posted:

Finally. A Green admitting their policies dont resonate with the wider Australian public.

here are some things that the public agrees with the greens on

1) whether the federal government should do more to tackle climate change
2) that mining companies should pay more tax
3) that same sex marriage should be legal
4) that medicare should cover dental
5) that euthanasia should be legal
6) that csg should be more tightly regulated
7) that the metadata laws are hosed

source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-11/vote-compass-full-data-explorer/5016244
also http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/12/poll_australians_hate_government_data_retention_plan/

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:55

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Amoeba102 posted:

Elmo, the only argument you're making is that we should vote the LNP because they formed government and better represent middle Australia. So why bother with the ALP at all I guess.

No. Just pointing out the reality of forming government. Something the average Green voter likes to forget.

There are differences between the ALP and the Lib/Nats. Its a Green talking point to say there isnt.

At the last election the Lib/Nats appealed to more voters and won the election. Same will probably happen at the next election, but maybe not.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:57

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

It's almost like people don't vote for political parties based purely on their policies!

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:57

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

EvilElmo posted:

No. Just pointing out the reality of forming government. Something the average Green voter likes to forget.

There are differences between the ALP and the Lib/Nats. Its a Green talking point to say there isnt.

At the last election the Lib/Nats appealed to more voters and won the election. Same will probably happen at the next election, but maybe not.

So why doesn't the ALP just fold, it's obviously failing to represent middle Australia like the Coalition do.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:58

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

EvilElmo posted:

There are differences between the ALP and the Lib/Nats. Its a Green talking point to say there isnt.

if it were a core greens belief that the ALP and the Libs were the same then why did the Greens support a Gillard minority government while so far they've opposed more Abbott/Turnbull legislation than any other parliamentary party

# ? Feb 25, 2016 23:58

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Those On My Left posted:

hi evil elmo i googled "greens counter terrorism policies" and got these links

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/12/24/overhaul-australias-counter-terror-laws-needed-greens

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-11/greens-say-social-cohesion-organisation-could-stop-terrorism/5806060

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-02/citizenship-changes-could-expose-australians-to-more-terrorism/6992562

if you have time later i can teach you how to google

here are some things that the public agrees with the greens on

1) whether the federal government should do more to tackle climate change
2) that mining companies should pay more tax
3) that same sex marriage should be legal
4) that medicare should cover dental
5) that euthanasia should be legal
6) that csg should be more tightly regulated
7) that the metadata laws are hosed

source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-11/vote-compass-full-data-explorer/5016244
also http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/12/poll_australians_hate_government_data_retention_plan/

None of them are policies. Just a few quotes from the Greens. Feel free to link me to their CT policy. It isnt on their website.

8% of the vote. With a swing against them with an unpopular ALP gvt losing office. Normally ripe for a Green voter increase as all the disenfranchised Left go to the Greens.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:02

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

EvilElmo posted:

No. Just pointing out the reality of forming government. Something the average Green voter likes to forget.

Nobody actually thinks the Greens have a chance of forming a government this generation. We think that if they gain enough of the vote, the ALP will be forced to enter coalition government with them.

If you think "forming government" is the only worthwhile reason to vote for a party or for your local member then you have a very dim grasp of how our political system works.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:06

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

July election confirmed: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-26/early-election-possible-not-probable-says-barnaby-joyce/7202012

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:06

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

EvilElmo posted:

None of them are policies. Just a few quotes from the Greens. Feel free to link me to their CT policy. It isnt on their website.

the greens do not have a specific counter-terrorism policy, instead issues touching on terrorism receive some mention on their Peace And Security and Human Rights policy documents. if you want more of an idea about the kinds of views that the greens take on specific counter-terrorism initiatives you can look at the google links i provided.

EvilElmo posted:

8% of the vote. With a swing against them with an unpopular ALP gvt losing office. Normally ripe for a Green voter increase as all the disenfranchised Left go to the Greens.

this isn't actually a reply to anything that i posted. the greens are not fringe nutbags whose values and policies are wildly at odds with what australia wants, they are entirely aligned with the australian mainstream on many issues, like the ones i just mentioned.

obviously their electoral success doesn't reflect this, which is why people who want to see those values and policies prioritised in our government are doing the hard work of actual politics rather than spewing defeatist talking points on an internet website

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:16

Wheezle: Aug 13, 2007; 420 stop boats erryday

Blahnaby Joyce posted:

It's possible because it is possible, but it doesn't mean that it is probable, possibilities and probabilities are getting confused in this issue

Jesus this guy is incoherent.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:17

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Greens will never form government in our lifetime therefore any goal the greens have is a waste of time.

:nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

http://i.imgur.com/7rD3uQU.gif :nws:

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:19

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

EvilElmo posted:

None of them are policies.

They are all greens policies, e.g. http://greens.org.au/dying-with-dignity

quote:

Just a few quotes from the Greens. Feel free to link me to their CT policy. It isnt on their website.

What's your hangup on this? This isn't a formal logic excercise, you aren't going to prove the greens don't exist by finding a single policy area that they don't have an explicit policy outlined.

Guess what, The ALP and LNP don't detail policy in opposition until the lead up to an election. At least the greens are open about their policies and where they stand.

norp fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 26, 2016

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:20

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

norp posted:

What's your hangup on this?

his hangup is that after make empirically false accusations about the greens - like that they vote with the libs all the time, or that their policies aren't shared by the electorate - he's desperate for another reason to say that they're bad, and he thinks that not having a specific policy document on counter-terrorism makes them bad, because counter-terrorism is really important to evil elmo, something awful poster

# ? Feb 26, 2016 00:34