PYF Dangerous Chemistry: Fluorine protecting Its Modesty...

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Kilo147: Apr 14, 2007; You remind me of the boss
What boss?
The boss with the power
What power?
The power of voodoo
Who-doo?
You do.
Do what?
Remind me of the Boss.

If anyone knows a nuclear reactor that'll let me grab a piña colada and like, an inflatable pool raft I can lie down on, and hang out in the pool to mess with tourists and students, I'll do that poo poo for free, man.

# ? Feb 21, 2016 07:10

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 22:00

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Kilo147 posted:

If anyone knows a nuclear reactor that'll let me grab a piña colada and like, an inflatable pool raft I can lie down on, and hang out in the pool to mess with tourists and students, I'll do that poo poo for free, man.

I'm sure if you donated enough to the stupid WSU cougs you could.

# ? Feb 21, 2016 07:22

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Kilo147 posted:

If anyone knows a nuclear reactor that'll let me grab a piña colada and like, an inflatable pool raft I can lie down on, and hang out in the pool to mess with tourists and students, I'll do that poo poo for free, man.

Just get some blue LEDs and make a mockup. Nobody's gonna be able to tell the difference.

# ? Feb 21, 2016 07:33

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

Chlorine pentafluoride

quote:

Some of the earliest research on the preparation was classified.[3][4] It was first prepared by fluorination of chlorine trifluoride at high temperatures and high pressures:
ClF3 + F2 → ClF5

quote:

In a highly exothermic reaction, water hydrolyses ClF5 to produce chloryl fluoride and hydrogen fluoride:[6]
ClF
5 + 2 H
2O → FClO
2 + 4 HF
It is also a strong fluorinating agent. At room temperature it reacts readily with all elements except noble gases, nitrogen, oxygen and fluorine.[2]

# ? Feb 25, 2016 06:23

ol qwerty bastard: Dec 13, 2005; If you want something done, do it yourself!

GWBBQ posted:

Chlorine pentafluoride

That's, uh, not a combination of words I ever expected to read.

wikipedia posted:

This colourless gas is an strong oxidant that was once a candidate oxidizer for rockets.

Because of loving course it was.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 09:40

Keiya: Aug 22, 2009; Come with me if you want to not die.

Look, people tried playing rocket noises to a rocket to get it to work better, I'm pretty sure the only chemicals not considered for fuel at all were the noble gasses.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 09:57

Phobophilia: Apr 26, 2008; by Hand Knit

Keiya posted:

Look, people tried playing rocket noises to a rocket to get it to work better, I'm pretty sure the only chemicals not considered for fuel at all were the noble gasses.

got news for you friend

(fiiine it's just reaction mass)

# ? Feb 25, 2016 10:20

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Keiya posted:

Look, people tried playing rocket noises to a rocket to get it to work better, I'm pretty sure the only chemicals not considered for fuel at all were the noble gasses.

There�s xenon, but it�s technically not fuel, just propellant.

e: That�ll teach me not to reload.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 10:28

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Platystemon posted:

There�s xenon, but it�s technically not fuel, just propellant.

e: That�ll teach me not to reload.

I bet someone's proposed a helium-fusion rocket at some point.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 11:07

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

Of course.

Helium-3 propulsion is a proposed method of spacecraft propulsion that uses the fusion of helium-3 atoms as a power source. Helium-3, an isotope of helium with two protons and one neutron, could be fused with deuterium in a reactor. The resulting energy release could be used to expel propellant out the back of the spacecraft.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 11:17

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Collateral Damage posted:

Of course.

Helium-3 propulsion is a proposed method of spacecraft propulsion that uses the fusion of helium-3 atoms as a power source. Helium-3, an isotope of helium with two protons and one neutron, could be fused with deuterium in a reactor. The resulting energy release could be used to expel propellant out the back of the spacecraft.

So essentially, if the very idea of something exists, someone has considered using it as rocket fuel.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 12:23

TehRedWheelbarrow: Mar 16, 2011; Fan of Britches

Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

So essentially, if the very idea of something exists, someone has considered using it as rocket fuel.

Kind of a more explode-y rule 34

# ? Feb 25, 2016 13:41

AlphaKretin: Dec 25, 2014; A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

SneakyFrog posted:

Kind of a more explode-y rule 34

Being used as rocket fuel is probably the best fate for most internet fetish porn. :flame:

# ? Feb 25, 2016 13:47

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

So essentially, if the very idea of something exists, someone has considered using it as rocket fuel.

In the latest Mythbusters episode, they experiment with gummy bears and dog poo as rocket propellants. Separately, not combined.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 13:49

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

Basically anything that can somehow be coaxed into releasing energy can theoretically be a rocket fuel, be it through oxidizing, fission or fusion. The challenge isn't finding stuff that releases lots of energy. A lot of stuff will do that in combination with an oxidizer. It's finding stuff that releases a useful amount of energy while not being too impractical and/or horrible to handle.

That's why the current common fuels are liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen and kerosene/liquid oxygen. They're decently effective, cheap, readily available and not horribly toxic.

Collateral Damage has a new favorite as of 14:53 on Feb 25, 2016

# ? Feb 25, 2016 14:40

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

SynthOrange posted:

Jeez I didnt notice the CSB had a new video. Its about West, Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDuHxwD5R4

I've looked at a few of these videos now and while I find the "dramatic reading" pretty eye-rolling the circumstances behind events in these videos are :stonk:

as heck. It's scary how much people gently caress up with this sort of stuff and the lacking regulation/guidelines/inspection.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 15:34

Gobbeldygook: May 13, 2009; Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

Some of you may remember Leonard Pickard, the Buddhist vegetarian marathon runner that was busted manufacturing LSD in a missile silo in Kansas. He wrote an article disputing that him being busted cut LSD availability in half that has a section relevant to this thread's interests. Background: a hit of LSD is 100 micrograms, so one gram of LSD is 10,000 doses.

quote:

Of course, location and size of clandestine labs determine in part total productivity per year. Labs frequently tend to be rural, with sites found in remote desert or mountain environments, although there are exceptions such as the 1967 and 1968 Denver labs and the St Louis, Belgian and Paris labs in the 1970s discussed earlier. This remoteness, while reducing the probability of detection by enforcement agencies, also makes access to the site more difficult and requires lengthy periods of social isolation for the manufacturer. Isolation also reduces productivity due to lack of ready access to supplies of chemicals and equipment.

Another rarely addressed factor limiting clandestine production is the unusual potency of LSD. In that specialized devices such as efficient fume hoods, anaerobic conditions, and full protective clothing with face shields and breathing apparatus are less effective or nonexistent in clandestine environments� particularly in larger labs�manufacturers have difficulty during the synthesis in preventing constant exposure to large quantities of LSD and are frequently subjected to incidental doses of 50 micrograms to many milligrams of LSD each day. LSD is absorbed through skin contact with LSD-containing solvents, through inhalation of dried particulate forms of LSD, and through ocular solution. This incidental exposure to unknown quantities of LSD as chronic and acute doses over weeks and months�together with the anxiety from fear of detection and arrest and the sense of dissociation from conducting a covert-lifestyle� all result in psychological stresses beyond that of a simple low-level LSD experience. The exposure effects are generally proportional to the size of the lab, with smaller labs having greater control over incidental LSD.

Although manufacturing chemists are routinely exposed to LSD for protracted periods, a protective effect has been noted in what has been described as �saturation�, wherein rapid tolerance to the drug is built up in the first few days of exposure, after which the subjective experience in terms of peak effects are significantly lessened. Nevertheless, except for periodic breaks, production tends to continue through a series of batch syntheses for indefinite periods�sometimes years�until either an arrest occurs in the distribution network or of the manufacturer, or otherwise until a personal decision is made to cease activity, or there is a temporary or permanent interruption in the supply of precursors or other requirements.

Exposure effects with other drugs, most notably the synthetic morphine substitute fentanyl, have been observed and provide an interesting example. While fentanyl exposure can be lethal, and LSD is not, and fentanyl production is much rarer than LSD, both are effective at about 100 micrograms. In the U.S. in the 1980s fentanyl suddenly appeared among heroin users in California�resulting in over 100 deaths�then suddenly disappeared, with the absence of fentanyl attributed to the death of the manufacturer from inadvertent contact.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 18:47

`Nemesis: Dec 30, 2000; railroad graffiti

Your Computer posted:

I've looked at a few of these videos now and while I find the "dramatic reading" pretty eye-rolling the circumstances behind events in these videos are as heck. It's scary how much people gently caress up with this sort of stuff and the lacking regulation/guidelines/inspection.

Even worse is that I believe the CSB has no actual power to change anything, they can only make recommendations to other agencies for rule making.

# ? Feb 25, 2016 22:51

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

GWBBQ posted:

Chlorine pentafluoride

That must be the first time someone's written "it reacts violently with all elements except [...] fluorine."

# ? Feb 26, 2016 04:27

rndmnmbr: Jul 3, 2012

Collateral Damage posted:

It's finding stuff that releases a useful amount of energy while not being too impractical and/or horrible to handle.

More importantly, it's finding stuff that ignites quietly, burns smoothly in a rocket engine, provides enough thrust to reach orbit, and doesn't just detonate and promote rapid unplanned disassembly. Because that was most of Ignition!, scientists coming up with a new witches' brew, and subsequently discovering that they were going to need a new test rocket and/or test engineers.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 05:10

Dante Logos: Dec 31, 2010

So I've been getting into perfume making and I am finding a lot of chemical supplies and lab equipment on Ebay. Are labs that hard up and am I going to be on some government list?

# ? Feb 26, 2016 05:54

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Dante Logos posted:

So I've been getting into perfume making and I am finding a lot of chemical supplies and lab equipment on Ebay. Are labs that hard up and am I going to be on some government list?

You post on SA. You're already on several lists. Don't worry about it.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 05:57

Gobbeldygook: May 13, 2009; Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

Dante Logos posted:

So I've been getting into perfume making and I am finding a lot of chemical supplies and lab equipment on Ebay. Are labs that hard up and am I going to be on some government list?

Whenever a biotech firm in San Francisco dies or gets bought out for their IP, all their poo poo gets bought by somebody and a lot of it ends up in eBay.

Finding ampules of osmium tertoxide on eBay was disconcerting.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 06:08

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

So essentially, if the very idea of something exists, someone has considered using it as rocket fuel.

The brass apparently kiboshed the proposal for cyanide-based fuel.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 06:17

DigitalRaven: Oct 9, 2012

The Lone Badger posted:

The brass apparently kiboshed the proposal for cyanide-based fuel.

And yet they were fine with testing FOOF as an accelerant.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 11:15

Keiya: Aug 22, 2009; Come with me if you want to not die.

FOOF isn't even the worst of what they tried.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 11:31

Ignimbrite: Jan 5, 2010; BALLS BALLS BALLS; Dinosaur Gum

Did they every try to use dimethyl mercury as rocket fuel? :v:

# ? Feb 26, 2016 11:49

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Ignimbrite posted:

Did they every try to use dimethyl mercury as rocket fuel?

I'll give you ten bucks if the idea hadn't occurred to someone. Almost certainly someone German.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 11:54

Fatal Error: Feb 13, 2013; by sebmojo

Ignition! posted:

All sorts of efforts were being made, during the late 50's, to increase
propellant densities, and I was responsible (not purposely, but from
being taken seriously when I didn't expect to be) for one of the
strangest. Phil Pomerantz, of BuWeps, wanted me to try dimethyl
mercury, Hg(CH3)2, as a fuel. I suggested that it might be somewhat
toxic and a bit dangerous to synthesize and handle, but he assured
me that it was (a) very easy to put together, and (b) as harmless as
mother's milk. I was dubious, but told him that I'd see what I could do.
I looked the stuff up, and discovered that, indeed, the synthesis was
easy, but that it was extremely toxic, and a long way from harmless.
As I had suffered from mercury poisoning on two previous occasions
and didn't care to take a chance on doing it again, I thought that it
would be an excellent idea to have somebody else make the compound
for me. So I phoned Rochester, and asked my contact man at Eastman
Kodak if they would make a hundred pounds of dimethyl mercury
and ship it to NARTS.
I heard a horrified gasp, and then a tightly controlled voice (I could
hear the grinding of teeth beneath the words) informed me that if
they were silly enough to synthesize that much dimethyl mercury,
they would, in the process fog every square inch of photographic
film in Rochester, and that, thank you just the same, Eastman was
not interested. The receiver came down with a crash, and I sat back
to consider the matter. An agonizing reappraisal seemed to be
indicated.

This book really is required reading for everyone in this thread :allears:

# ? Feb 26, 2016 12:28

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Ignimbrite posted:

Did they every try to use dimethyl mercury as rocket fuel?

Of course. Pages 177�179 of Ignition!:

quote:

All sorts of efforts were being made, during the late 50's, to increase propellant densities, and I was responsible (not purposely, but from being taken seriously when I didn't expect to be) for one of the strangest. Phil Pomerantz, of BuWeps, wanted me to try dimethyl mercury, Hg(CH₃)₂, as a fuel. I suggested that it might be somewhat toxic and a bit dangerous to synthesize and handle, but he assured me that it was (a) very easy to put together, and (b) as harmless as mother's milk. I was dubious, but told him that I'd see what I could do.

I looked the stuff up, and discovered that, indeed, the synthesis was easy, but that it was extremely toxic, and a long way from harmless. As I had suffered from mercury poisoning on two previous occasions and didn't care to take a chance on doing it again, I thought that it would be an excellent idea to have somebody else make the compound for me. So I phoned Rochester, and asked my contact man at Eastman Kodak if they would make a hundred pounds of dimethyl mercury and ship it to NARTS.

I heard a horrified gasp, and then a tightly controlled voice (I could hear the grinding of teeth beneath the words) informed me that if they were silly enough to synthesize that much dimethyl mercury, they would, in the process fog every square inch of photographic film in Rochester, and that, thank you just the same, Eastman was not interested. The receiver came down with a crash, and I sat back to consider the matter. An agonizing reappraisal seemed to be indicated.

Phil wanted density. Well, dimethyl mercury was dense, all right� d = 3.07 �but it would be burned with RFNA, and at a reasonable mixture ratio the total propellant density would be about 2.1 or 2.2. (The density of the acid-UDMH system is about 1.2.) That didn't seem too impressive, and I decided to apply the reducto ad absurdum method. Why not use the densest known substance which is liquid at room temperature � mercury itself? Just squirt it into the chamber of a motor burning, say, acid-UDMH. It would evaporate into a mon- atomic gas (with a low C_p, which would help performance), and would go out the nozzle with the combustion products. That technique should give Phil all the density he wanted! Charmed by the delightful nuttiness of the idea, I reached for the calculator.
[�]
The result was spectacular. With 𝜑 = 0.1, and 27.5 percent of the tank volume filled with mercury instead of propellant, the bulk density was 4.9 and the boost velocity was about 31 percent above that of the neat propellant; at 𝜑 = 0.2 there was a 20 percent increase with 21 volume percent of mercury. At 𝜑 = 1.0, on the other hand, the best you could get was a 2 percent increase in boost velocity with 5 volume percent of mercury. Obviously, a missile with a low 𝜑, such as an air-to-air job, was where this system belonged�if anywhere.

I solemnly and formally wrote the whole thing up, complete with graphs, labeled it �dead pan �the "Ultra High Density Propellant Concept," and sent it off to the Bureau. I expected to see it bounce back in a week, with a "Who do you think you're kidding?" letter attached. It didn't.

Phil bought it.

He directed us, forthwith, to verify the calculations experimentally, and NARTS, horrified, was stuck with the job of firing a mercury- spewing motor in the middle of Morris County, New Jersey.

Firing the motor wouldn't be any problem; the problem lay in the fact that all of the mercury vapor in the atmosphere would not be good for the health of the (presumably) innocent inhabitants of the county �nor for our own. So a scrubber had to be built, a long pipe- like affair down which the motor would be fired, and fitted with water sprays, filters, and assorted devices to condense and collect the mer- cury in the exhaust before it could get out into the atmosphere. We had it built and were about ready to go, when the Navy decided to shut down �"disestablish" �NARTS, and ordered us to ship the whole mercury setup to NOTS. With a sigh of relief, we complied, and handed them the wet baby. Saved by the bell!

At NOTS, Dean Couch and D. G. Nyberg took over the job, and by March 1960 had completed their experiments. They used a 250- pound thrust RFNA-UDMH motor, and injected mercury through a tap in the chamber wall. And the thing did work. They used up to 31 volume percent of mercury in their runs, and found that at 20 percent they got a 40 percent increase in density impulse. (I had calculated 43.) As they were firing in the middle of the desert, they didn't bother with the scrubber. And they didn't poison a single rattlesnake. Technically, the system was a complete success. Practically�that was something else again.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 12:34

`Nemesis: Dec 30, 2000; railroad graffiti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-vUeAXjQTw&t=595s

# ? Feb 26, 2016 17:19

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Brake fluid+chlorine.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 17:39

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

So...there's some patch of Nevada desert that is unbelievably toxic out there. :allears:

That makes me wonder about how much land was contaminated by blown dimethyl mercury containing dust.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 17:43

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

A White Guy posted:

So...there's some patch of Nevada desert that is unbelievably toxic out there. That makes me wonder about how much land was contaminated by blown dimethyl mercury containing dust.

They didn't end up using DMM, just plain old elemental mercury.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 18:24

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

A White Guy posted:

So...there's some patch of Nevada desert that is unbelievably toxic out there. That makes me wonder about how much land was contaminated by blown dimethyl mercury containing dust.

Also there's a patch of Nevada that looks like the surface of the moon from all of the nuclear tests they held there. No one cares about non-Vegas Nevada.

# ? Feb 26, 2016 23:02

PerrineClostermann: Dec 15, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

SneakyFrog posted:

Kind of a more explode-y rule 34

Candidate for new thread title right here

# ? Feb 26, 2016 23:45

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Memento posted:

Also there's a patch of Nevada that looks like the surface of the moon from all of the nuclear tests they held there. No one cares about non-Vegas Nevada.

Unless you're into ripping sweet ore out of the ground using stuff that belongs in this thread. Well sort of since most explosives in use are safe as gently caress.

# ? Feb 27, 2016 01:01

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Memento posted:

Also there's a patch of Nevada that looks like the surface of the moon from all of the nuclear tests they held there. No one cares about non-Vegas Nevada.

To be fair, isn't most of non-Vegas Nevada just dust?

# ? Feb 27, 2016 01:21

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

A White Guy posted:

So...there's some patch of Nevada desert that is unbelievably toxic out there. That makes me wonder about how much land was contaminated by blown dimethyl mercury containing dust.

Not Nevada. China Lake, California.

# ? Feb 27, 2016 01:26

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 22:00

crazypeltast52: May 5, 2010

DemeaninDemon posted:

Unless you're into ripping sweet ore out of the ground using stuff that belongs in this thread. Well sort of since most explosives in use are safe as gently caress.

You still use low grade (this thread) chemicals to process your ore if it's anything but iron being mined.

# ? Feb 27, 2016 02:43

The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: Carefully Curated > PYF Dangerous Chemistry: Fluorine protecting Its Modesty...

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