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Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Is there any benefit to gold key other than item rarity?

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NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO

Baron Porkface posted:

Is there any benefit to gold key other than item rarity?

What are you, some kind of casual? :smug:

tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Baron Porkface posted:

Is there any benefit to gold key other than item rarity?

20 undaunted xp instead of 10, and what appears to be at least a 2x chance of a shoulder drop.

Also if you've never done the gold key, there's the undaunted xp from the achievement.

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

tgidieday posted:

There's more to DK than magicka. There are stamina morphs of breath and embers, and if you get some maelstrom one-handers, you can do that glass cannon build that's arguably the best dps in the game. It's resource-intensive, too, so losing raw stamina in exchange for Bosmer's regen is not a bad trade.

Lastly, if you're doing stamina nightblade, you're going to end up right where your DK is. Run magicka, or if that doesn't appeal to you, roll a (redguard) stamina sorcerer.

That's the thing, though. I tried to do a pure stam DK and it hasn't worked out too well. Main weapon skill is bow which is where I'm starting to see trouble. Even with pure stam and stam gear and food buffs she's only doing an average of 3-5k dps. So maybe I should respec and perk more into the actual DK abilities instead of pure weapon skills? At this point, screw it, I'll try anything.

On the other hand, my NB is doing 2.2k at lvl 14. Fights are over before they start. Took out a world boss solo in 13 seconds yesterday. Am I gonna start seeing diminished returns? He's 0/0/13 on attributes and focused primarily on Dual Wield skills mixed with some Assassination and once he hits 15 I plan on adding 2H for crowd-oriented damage. Granted, I have a lot of CP boosting his damage output. Like, 40-something points in Mighty and 20-something in Piercing. It's hilarious how powerful he is. But I'm guessing that's not gonna be the case for long based on what you said above.

drat, it's starting to look like the builds I want and the ones that actually work in this game are 2 very different things.

tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Scyantific posted:

Yes, I get it, the casual crowd is where the money's at, where Zenimax stands to make the most of its profit from. However, that doesn't mean that *absolutely everything* in the game needs to be toned down for them so we don't get a bunch of cries on their forums about "BUT I CAN'T DO CRAGLORN OR TRIALS THEY'RE TOO HARD AND I DON'T WANT TO FIND A GROUP FOR THEM," while at the same time making the real end-game content so frustrating that people don't want to do it, and the ones who do end up clearing the content feel like they've been forced to.

The obvious solution is difficulty levels. Now it's tricky to get the reward schedule right, but they almost threaded that needle with IC. The v15 gear obtained from grinding normal WGT/ICP is better than what you can craft, so normal mode has a purpose. The v16 gear obtained from veteran mode is better, but (helms aside) only by a few percent.

If you think v15 is enough, you can laugh at the tryhard poopsockers slamming their heads against a wall for a few percent. And if you move on to v16, you can lord it over the filthy casuals who can't even manage veteran mode. Everybody wins!

Too bad the dungeons themselves were kind of underwhelming.

Raruna
Mar 30, 2010

Mr. Carrier Pigeon posted:

That's the thing, though. I tried to do a pure stam DK and it hasn't worked out too well. Main weapon skill is bow which is where I'm starting to see trouble. Even with pure stam and stam gear and food buffs she's only doing an average of 3-5k dps. So maybe I should respec and perk more into the actual DK abilities instead of pure weapon skills? At this point, screw it, I'll try anything.

On the other hand, my NB is doing 2.2k at lvl 14. Fights are over before they start. Took out a world boss solo in 13 seconds yesterday. Am I gonna start seeing diminished returns? He's 0/0/13 on attributes and focused primarily on Dual Wield skills mixed with some Assassination and once he hits 15 I plan on adding 2H for crowd-oriented damage. Granted, I have a lot of CP boosting his damage output. Like, 40-something points in Mighty and 20-something in Piercing. It's hilarious how powerful he is. But I'm guessing that's not gonna be the case for long based on what you said above.

drat, it's starting to look like the builds I want and the ones that actually work in this game are 2 very different things.

I feel that to make stam DK work they SERIOUSLY need to improve heavy attacks. Sweet gently caress, their windup is too huge for the damage they do and stam they regen. Considering the incoming buffs to Molten Weapons, I think we'll be a bit better. Being able to give everyone around you Major Brutality for 30s seems rad.

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

The biggest, and I mean biggest problem with Stam-based DKs is the fact that in order to be effective, they have to spec into 2 different champion passives, since the two class stamina skills are all fire based and all weapon damage skills are physical. It's going to be more of a problem when Thieves Guild launches since there's going to be the added element of a champion passive that increases the intensity of Damage over Time effects.

It's the same reason the Overload ultimate on stamina sorcerers is a joke. My magicka sorc hits like a loving truck with that skill, with my largest hits (with full buffs) hitting for 50,000 damage. My stam sorc on the other hand, even though it has higher base weapon damage than my magsorc, can't even break 25k with an Overload attack.

tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Before the usual suspects show up and say their mid-vet special snowflake does perfectly fine in what they imagine endgame to be, here's my advice:

First, worrying about dps or builds is largely pointless while leveling. Yes, you should be at 7-8k right now, but you don't actually need that dps to gain experience. Only worry about problems if they're getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game. If you're having fun apart from the dps meter, maybe turn off the dps meter for now.

Second, bow is, at this moment, bad in PvE. If you're using a bow because it's fun, good! Keep doing that. Just know that bow is inferior to ignoring your racials and switching to a magicka build with a force shock weave on every class (and most classes have a better magicka option than that). If you see bow in a good stamina build, it's almost always a buff bar using poison injection.

Third, if you don't care about your build and just want to immediately feel better about your DK, do this (you might not have dawnbreaker, so pop in take flight or something in the meantime):

bar 1 single (2h): rally+evil hunter+wrecking blow+executioner+green dragon blood (u) flawless dawnbreaker
bar 2 aoe (2h): rally+critical rush+burning breath+brawler+green dragon blood (u) standard of might

This is not minmaxed or optimal or anything (you probably don't need both emergency heals on both bars), it's just a starting point for an easy to execute build that should get you to 8k immediately. Keep rally and green dragon blood up all the time, apply burning breath even in single target for major fracture, use wrecking blow to empower your ults, and stand in your standard for 20% more damage. Check this post, which despite being for sorcerer, will explain how to execute this build.

Finally, I've run every class with stamina. They were all perfectly fun and fine until endgame PvE, where I discovered: 1) stamina still feels like an afterthought across the board, 2) stamina sorcerer is the only way to reliably run bow or dual wield without a dedicated healer, and 3) stamina nightblade is the squishiest class, with no added dps to show for it. I needed engine guardian to start feeling good about my nightblade, and even then, I still needed a healer to run anything.

Now these are just my dumb subjective opinions. If you really want to make stamina nightblade to work in endgame PvE, I'm sure you can. Just saying what I experienced.

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

Raruna posted:

I feel that to make stam DK work they SERIOUSLY need to improve heavy attacks. Sweet gently caress, their windup is too huge for the damage they do and stam they regen. Considering the incoming buffs to Molten Weapons, I think we'll be a bit better. Being able to give everyone around you Major Brutality for 30s seems rad.


Scyantific posted:

The biggest, and I mean biggest problem with Stam-based DKs is the fact that in order to be effective, they have to spec into 2 different champion passives, since the two class stamina skills are all fire based and all weapon damage skills are physical.

Both of these are true. I wish there was a DK passive that was just a straight dam boost but nope, fire only. And, uhh, I haven't used any of those. Heavy attacks are too slow for what you get out of them. I can throw down 3 light in half the time, especially with the uber-slow bow. I mostly just use abilities, though, and swap to dual daggers once stuff closes in for melee. I dunno, swap stam to mag and perk into DK skills, neutering my weapon skills, or stick with it, or... gently caress.

tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Scyantific posted:

Champ points.

Yeah, that's a nightblade problem as well. The stamina morphs are a random mishmash of magic and physical damage. If they were all magic damage, you could combine poison abilities and make something approximating a good build with Thaumaturge. But they're not, and when Thieves' Guild comes out, magic damage will be moved in with elemental, further weakening the class.

Sogol
Apr 11, 2013

Galileo's Finger
As tgie often points out, in your face Stam builds with a big honking 2h can be very satisfying. Buffs and a Stam heal. Brawler and wrecking blow for leveling can be a blast. DW would also give you a useable major expedition and an AoE that could work with burning breath.

I have really wanted bow builds to work. I had a fun one for a while that was bow/DW and maxed poison damage and defile.

I am running my dk experiment Magicka because I like dots and survivability. Your nb sounds great and makes me want to focus on Stam for my upcoming nb project. I always find Stam builds challenging to figure out how the limited class morphs synergize. On the other hand it is easier to build Stam/weapon damage builds than Magicka/weapon damage combos it seems to me.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


Is the IC main storyline doable while solo?

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

I like this. Thanks man. And yeah, what you said about having fun is EXACTLY my problem with my DK. Every fight at this point feels like a long, tedious chore. Sure, I have my bow set up to be as debuff as possible and that helps but it still takes forever to bring stuff down and my toon is way too squishy to deal with 5-on-1 close quarters stuff reliably. Anything past Stonefalls feels like a chore, really.

OTOH, my stamblade is a blast to play. I was legitimately laughing out loud when I was fighting that world boss. I just looked at my DPS, combat time, health and stam and thought "This can't be real. Seriously?" It was ridiculous.

I'm probably gonna try out your DK build and see what happens. Should I respec my mag and stam equally? Because I can tell I'm gonna need more mag than I have now

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

Berke Negri posted:

Is the IC main storyline doable while solo?

No. The Temple and Arena districs require a small group. We'll be doing IC runs this weekend anyway so feel free to join in.

(PS I have +Max HP Willpower pieces from running dungeons. Yours if you want them)

tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Berke Negri posted:

Is the IC main storyline doable while solo?

Yes if you're really patient (e: and can handle a Wrothgar WB), although you'll probably run into a gank group on the quests where the game loudly announces your presence (I'm looking at you, Nobles). Maybe wait to do them on Axe when your faction controls the map.

Mr. Carrier Pigeon posted:

I'm probably gonna try out your DK build and see what happens. Should I respec my mag and stam equally? Because I can tell I'm gonna need more mag than I have now

Health until you're comfortable (probably zero), then everything else in stamina. If you want more mag (e.g. 3 casts of green dragon blood), switch to purple food. Also, I can dial up some gear for you later if you want.

tgidieday fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 26, 2016

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

tgidieday posted:

Health until you're comfortable (probably zero), then everything else in stamina. If you want more mag (e.g. 3 casts of green dragon blood), switch to purple food. Also, I can dial up some gear for you later if you want.

Cool. I mastered Provisioning long ago so that'll be easy. What can you craft? I'm at 5-6 traits on everything now so unless it's Craglorn or IC level stuff I'd rather not waste your time.

titties
May 10, 2012

They're like two suicide notes stuffed into a glitter bra

This game moves at a glacial pace. I'm thinking about wiping my character since I've spent a bunch of time messing around with all of the crafting types and my bank + inv are already crammed full with strawberries and corn starch and poo poo.

Would you experienced people say it is better to just stick with one or two crafting types and ignore the rest on a given character? Does it hurt anything to have gotten levels in all the crafting types?

E: same question with like, everything I guess. I should be in / want to use medium armor, but it took a day or two before I realized that medium armor is not just a combination of heavy and light armors (no idea why I thought it worked like that). I can't tell if armor / weapon skills only increase when you earn quest exp or if they are constantly improving with use like in the last 2 games.

titties fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Feb 26, 2016

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

titties posted:

This game moves at a glacial pace. I'm thinking about wiping my character since I've spent a bunch of time messing around with all of the crafting types and my bank + inv are already crammed full with strawberries and corn starch and poo poo.

Would you experienced people say it is better to just stick with one or two crafting types and ignore the rest on a given character? Does it hurt anything to have gotten levels in all the crafting types?

E: same question with like, everything I guess. I should be in / want to use medium armor, but it took a day or two before I realized that medium armor is not just a combination of heavy and light armors (no idea why I thought it worked like that). I can't tell if armor / weapon skills only increase when you earn quest exp or if they are constantly improving with use like in the last 2 games.

It's your call on crafting. My advice, though, would be not to attempt to learn and max them all out on one toon. That's a lot of skill points that you could put into other areas.

As for armor, yes, using does increase your skill. I've had skill up notifications right in the middle of combat from taking a hit. As for the other part, what are you looking to get out of your armor? What skills in general are you trying to boost/support/make up for? Medium focuses on stam and stealth with some crit thrown in.

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday

Mr. Carrier Pigeon posted:

My advice, though, would be not to attempt to learn and max them all out on one toon. That's a lot of skill points that you could put into other areas.

What else would you spend them on? Seriously, skill points are handed out like candy.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


Yeah, the real stop gap with crafting across multiple characters is going to be time and bank space logistics. At the least I'd recommend at least one character having blacksmith/woodworking/clothier and do all the research on them so when you're putting together crafted sets you don't need to log and switch characters to make a staff.

Edit: Also, doing writs is kind of bad enough if you're doing half of them, then have to do another on another character, then do another on a third character etc. Unless you're actually doing all your writs across multiple characters, like some kind of mad man.

Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 27, 2016

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

JackBadass posted:

What else would you spend them on? Seriously, skill points are handed out like candy.

True, but I meant if he wanted to perk into multiple weapon or class skill lines. If you know from the start what you want then yeah, why not.

Berke Negri posted:

Yeah, the real stop gap with crafting across multiple characters is going to be time and bank space logistics. At the least I'd recommend at least one character having blacksmith/woodworking/clothier and do all the research on them so when you're putting together crafted sets you don't need to log and switch characters to make a staff.

This. My main is the 3 crafts and Provisioning, 2nd has Alchemy and Enchanting. My bank hates me and I hate it right back.

NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO
If anyone needs crafted goods, here's what I have for traits. If you want sets or anything just let me know how many pieces, what trait, what level, etc. IGN @Neurosishead



LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday

Mr. Carrier Pigeon posted:

True, but I meant if he wanted to perk into multiple weapon or class skill lines. If you know from the start what you want then yeah, why not.

Still, points aren't some kind of rarity. I spec into two weapon lines, a class line, two armor lines, two world lines, two guild lines, one alliance war line, my racial line, and all the crafting lines. At no point did I ever feel like I was short or going to be short on points. I'm sitting on one point now, as a matter of fact.

I think a lot of the "don't craft on your main" mentality with this games comes from a combination of a.) that being a truth in a lot of other MMOs, and b.) misused points.

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011
if you're leveling a first character, you're probably just putting points in whatever combat skills as they unlock, because you want to try them out. once you 'know' your build you only really need 14 or 15 active abilities, tops, but if you're leveling you're probably looking at a way higher number.

Hal_2005
Feb 23, 2007

Scyantific posted:

Hahahahaha, those loving assistants will cost no less than 2500 crowns. If Zenimax knows how to do one other thing than ban people, it's milk the poo poo out of their fanbase with this kind of stuff.

E:


The DK changes are pretty much a halfway point between the broken as gently caress perma-bats/perma-SoM DK metagame from back at launch and the current joke of a class that is DK right now (but can still be very dangerous in the right hands, see: Vyr Cor and Etaniel).

As for Templars... well I'll just leave this Fengrush hype video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0reT1dBS5Ao

Templars will be removed from the game in 3.1.

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday
Has there been any official word yet on when we're getting crafting bags?

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Dark Bortherhhod dlc.

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday

Baron Porkface posted:

Dark Bortherhhod dlc.

Great. Now I have to wait until Dark Brotherhood for everything I want.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


Its my impression that after DB we're getting some kind of non-new land DLC (housing?) and then Q4 will be either Murkmire or Clockwork City, probably Murkmire with Clockwork City coming out in 2017.

IF they do housing in Q3 I hope that it involves redoing at least some of the faction capitols because jesus, after Orsinium and what I've seen of Abah's Landing on the PTS the dev team is much better at making really weighty feeling towns than when the game launched.

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday
Yeah. No big loss if they don't, though. The base towns are still decent, but I agree there's a noticeable difference in design.

valuum
Sep 3, 2003
ø
1/377

You guys are the worst :mad:

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday

valuum posted:

1/377

You guys are the worst :mad:

That's why I dumped the goon guilds. No one here actually plays anymore.

Raruna
Mar 30, 2010
So... the game started not letting me log in randomly, claiming an error 200/180 or something. Forwarded all the specified ports and nothing :saddowns:

This seems to only happen with foreigners, from what I read, which is a huge downer.

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011

JackBadass posted:

That's why I dumped the goon guilds. No one here actually plays anymore.

i don't really do anything besides cyrodiil but i'm usually on for a few hours a night.

LastGoodBoy
Sep 7, 2014

Keep your mind be open window everyday

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

i don't really do anything besides cyrodiil but i'm usually on for a few hours a night.

If I'm not just trading in Riften, I'm either in Wrothgar or the Imperial Sewers. I typically play between 12AM - 4 or 5AM EST during the week. Weekends I'm probably on most of the day.

LastGoodBoy fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Feb 28, 2016

titties
May 10, 2012

They're like two suicide notes stuffed into a glitter bra

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

i don't really do anything besides cyrodiil but i'm usually on for a few hours a night.

ARE YOU ON PS4 I'M A GIRL GIVE ME GOLD PLS

Raruna
Mar 30, 2010
So I went to check integrity of the cache for ESO and it said 752 files failed to verify and then made me re-download and re-install the entire game :catstare:

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

Raruna posted:

So I went to check integrity of the cache for ESO and it said 752 files failed to verify and then made me re-download and re-install the entire game :catstare:

Never, ever do verify cache on ESO through Steam. Always do it from the Repair function of the launcher itself.

Also I'm probably gonna start posting PvP builds here.

Mr. Carrier Pigeon
Aug 22, 2013

Those birds certainly know what they're doin'!

Raruna posted:

So... the game started not letting me log in randomly, claiming an error 200/180 or something. Forwarded all the specified ports and nothing :saddowns:

This seems to only happen with foreigners, from what I read, which is a huge downer.

So I went to check integrity of the cache for ESO and it said 752 files failed to verify and then made me re-download and re-install the entire game :catstare:

I've heard a lot of people complaining about issues with launching through Steam. Have you tried launching through the basic launcher to see what happens?

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tgidieday
May 7, 2007
You can't kill me, I quit!

Scyantific posted:

Also I'm probably gonna start posting PvP builds here.

Yay build chat! :hfive:

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