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I installed a new ceiling fan last night, went great. Looks a lot better than the old one. Only thing I don't like is that it has a remote module that goes in the base and provides control for the light/fan. It expects just normal two-wire AC coming in, and provides the expected three wires (neutral, fan, light) as output. But my old fan was wired on two separately-switched circuits, instead of the one circuit the new fan expects. Anyhow, long story short, I said screw that, I don't want a stupid remote lying around and a couple unused switches on the wall (or a blank 2-gang plate) so I just wired it up without the remote. Works absolutely great, and I got a free 2-channel 120VAC remote dimmer for some future project, who knows what. So long story short, the only downside here is that I don't have speed control over the fan, because it's either full-on or full-off. I'd like to just install a fan dimmer in the wall switch. Is there anything special I need for that? I guess maybe a dimmer for the light would be cool too, since I'm gonna be in that receptacle replacing things, so that'll need to be an LED dimmer. Should the same sort of dimmer work for the fan speed as well? I just don't know if fans need a special dimmer, is all. tldr: Do ceiling fans need a special sort of dimmer for speed control? Thanks!
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Feb 14, 2016 15:19
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Yes. You need to get a ceiling fan speed control switch. Usually has three speeds.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:09
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Cool, thanks. Would have asked the same question of the guys at Home Depot, but I generally consider their opinion a backup at best. 
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Feb 14, 2016 16:14
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Bad Munki posted:I installed a new ceiling fan last night, went great. Looks a lot better than the old one. Only thing I don't like is that it has a remote module that goes in the base and provides control for the light/fan. It expects just normal two-wire AC coming in, and provides the expected three wires (neutral, fan, light) as output. But my old fan was wired on two separately-switched circuits, instead of the one circuit the new fan expects. Anyhow, long story short, I said screw that, I don't want a stupid remote lying around and a couple unused switches on the wall (or a blank 2-gang plate) so I just wired it up without the remote. Works absolutely great, and I got a free 2-channel 120VAC remote dimmer for some future project, who knows what. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that most fan switches require the controller.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:16
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that most fan switches require the controller. Not if they are standard 3-speed switches and the fan has separate motor/light power like op.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:21
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that most fan switches require the controller. Aaaaaaanyhow, I had already tried it all out before even posting here and everything worked fine: the light turns on and off without trouble from the switch, and the fan does the same, albeit only at full speed. I'm pretty confident that the remote module in this case just does what Zhentar's suggested fan speed control switch does, except with a dumb remote control that looks ugly in its wall mount clip, or gets lost, or is never where it needs to be. gently caress remotes.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:24
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Here, just for kicks, have a couple pics. The old horrible brass fan with the original wiring:  The new fan has the same exact wiring coming from the actual fixture, except the remote receiver module can go in there between the house and the fan wiring. The remote receiver module that goes in the ceiling with the fan (left side is input, right side is output):  And as you can see, 120VAC in, 120VAC out: 
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Feb 14, 2016 16:36
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Qwijib0 posted:Not if they are standard 3-speed switches and the fan has separate motor/light power like op. Oh I didn't catch that they were on separate circuits. Should've paid more attention.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:53
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That's okay, I get all wordy-train-of-thought and generally focus on the wrong details when writing, deciphering my ramblings can be a chore. 
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Feb 14, 2016 16:59
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kid sinister posted:It's not required, and could possibly trip the GFCI with false positives if it's an older disposal. Only outlets serving the countertops need to be GFCI protected. Plus, GFCI outlets can't be split like a regular receptacle can, where one could be always on and the other one being switched. That sometimes happens with outlets under the kitchen sink, where one is switched for the disposal and the other is always on for the dishwasher next to that cabinet. the 2014 code now requires anything within 6' of a sink to be GFCI protected..unless i missed it i don't believe there's an exception for the disposal or dishwasher (or fridge, microwave, trash compactor receptacle...etc.) they are also required to be arc fault protected. in new installations i've just been installing the dual function AFCI/GFCI breakers but unfortunately no one is making a 2-pole AFCI/GFCI breaker yet (if this is indeed on a 3-wire circuit). the new code ends up being a serious pain in the rear end for doing remodel stuff in kitchens built during the era of pulling 12-3/14-3 to everything (the last oh...30 years) since the breaker technology hasn't quite caught up to real life applications.
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Feb 16, 2016 03:01
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crocodile posted:the 2014 code now requires anything within 6' of a sink to be GFCI protected..unless i missed it i don't believe there's an exception for the disposal or dishwasher (or fridge, microwave, trash compactor receptacle...etc.) they are also required to be arc fault protected. in new installations i've just been installing the dual function AFCI/GFCI breakers but unfortunately no one is making a 2-pole AFCI/GFCI breaker yet (if this is indeed on a 3-wire circuit). the new code ends up being a serious pain in the rear end for doing remodel stuff in kitchens built during the era of pulling 12-3/14-3 to everything (the last oh...30 years) since the breaker technology hasn't quite caught up to real life applications. See, that's kind of where 210.8(A)(6) and (7) kind of collide. (6) says kitchen countertop outlets need GFCI protection, while (7) says within 6' of a sink edge. Isn't that 6' horizontally? Also, 210.8(D) new in 2014 says that dishwashers specifically must be GFCI protected. I imagine that their outlets would fall under the "readily accessible" rule, so they would either need a GFCI breaker, or a GFCI outlet in the next cabinet over. There are no exceptions for certain appliances anymore, just outlets where the rules wouldn't apply, like the outlet for a fridge that is farther than 6' from the sink and not a countertop outlet. You're right about the headaches of bringing that old stuff up to code with the new GFCI and AFCI requirements when there are shared neutrals.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:22
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Per this post in the home brewing thread, I made what appears to be a big uh-oh when buying parts for my electric brew kettle build: purchased a 5500W water heater element from America thinking 240 proud Australian volts would have no problems with it, only to realise the standard outlet here is 10A, maybe 15A for something beefier, and this thing will draw ~24  My plan was to have it be controlled by an STC-1000 + SSR, if that makes any difference.Am I pretty much SOL? The main issue is that I rent and would like something that will work anywhere with no dramas, so I have a feeling I just need to bite the bullet and buy a 2300W element. edit: the closest one they sell is 2500, which is a bit over 10A at 240V, hmm. Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 10:49
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Ethics_Gradient posted:Per this post in the home brewing thread, I made what appears to be a big uh-oh when buying parts for my electric brew kettle build: purchased a 5500W water heater element from America thinking 240 proud Australian volts would have no problems with it, only to realise the standard outlet here is 10A, maybe 15A for something beefier, and this thing will draw ~24 If you rent, but have in-unit electric laundry you could temporarily unplug the dryer and use that, as it will certainly be 220-240V at greater than 30A. I read that all wrong, you are in aus and need more amps. Dryer circuit may still solve your problem. Qwijib0 fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 21:26
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crocodile posted:the 2014 code now requires anything within 6' of a sink to be GFCI protected..unless i missed it i don't believe there's an exception for the disposal or dishwasher (or fridge, microwave, trash compactor receptacle...etc.) they are also required to be arc fault protected. in new installations i've just been installing the dual function AFCI/GFCI breakers but unfortunately no one is making a 2-pole AFCI/GFCI breaker yet (if this is indeed on a 3-wire circuit). the new code ends up being a serious pain in the rear end for doing remodel stuff in kitchens built during the era of pulling 12-3/14-3 to everything (the last oh...30 years) since the breaker technology hasn't quite caught up to real life applications. Is this just outlets? What about my light switch 2' from the sink?
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Feb 17, 2016 21:34
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Qwijib0 posted:
Yeah, the catch is that driers are not all that common here (relative to the US, where they're basically a human right), at least at all the properties I've been looking at, so I reckon I'm going to need to replace it.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:46
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Ethics_Gradient posted:Per this post in the home brewing thread, I made what appears to be a big uh-oh when buying parts for my electric brew kettle build: purchased a 5500W water heater element from America thinking 240 proud Australian volts would have no problems with it, only to realise the standard outlet here is 10A, maybe 15A for something beefier, and this thing will draw ~24 10 A at 240V requires about 24 ohms resistance. Your 5500 watt element has about 10 ohms. So you just need to wire it in series with another 15 ohms or so of resistance! Your 15 ohm resistor needs to be able to dissipate at least 1500 watts, but fortunately, water cooled 16 ohm resistors are widely available.
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Feb 18, 2016 00:31
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Zhentar posted:10 A at 240V requires about 24 ohms resistance. Your 5500 watt element has about 10 ohms. So you just need to wire it in series with another 15 ohms or so of resistance! Your 15 ohm resistor needs to be able to dissipate at least 1500 watts, but fortunately, water cooled 16 ohm resistors are widely available. That is, buy a second element identical to the first, then wire the two in series. Or just buy an element of the correct wattage for your country.
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Feb 18, 2016 02:01
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FogHelmut posted:Is this just outlets? What about my light switch 2' from the sink? Yep. Lights aren't required to be GFCI protected. Well, maybe those ceramic pull string ceiling lights that have outlets built into their bases depending on where they're installed. Honestly, fixtures with outlets are kind of a gray area.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:06
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kid sinister posted:Yep. Lights aren't required to be GFCI protected. Well, maybe those ceramic pull string ceiling lights that have outlets built into their bases depending on where they're installed. Honestly, fixtures with outlets are kind of a gray area. I'm just thinking, I'm washing the dishes, my hands are wet, I hit the switch for the garbage disposal, or the light above the sink. Also I opened up those switches when I was doing the outlets and they were not grounded, so I grounded them. Should they have not been grounded?
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Feb 18, 2016 03:38
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FogHelmut posted:I'm just thinking, I'm washing the dishes, my hands are wet, I hit the switch for the garbage disposal, or the light above the sink. Are you turning off a switch while holding a garden hose at full blast in that hand? Were they in metal boxes? It's legal to ground the box and use self grounding devices.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:42
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FogHelmut posted:Also I opened up those switches when I was doing the outlets and they were not grounded, so I grounded them. Should they have not been grounded? I can't think of any way connecting the grounds could be a bad thing.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:46
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magic mountain posted:I can't think of any way connecting the grounds could be a bad thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)
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Feb 18, 2016 05:27
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Ah, yes, the fabled switch box ground loop. How silly of me. FogHelmet if the speakers in your garbage disposal suddenly start humming you should probably undo that. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 05:30
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magic mountain posted:Ah, yes, the fabled switch box ground loop. How silly of me. Hey, you said "any".
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Feb 18, 2016 19:12
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kid sinister posted:Hey, you said "any". I'll loop your grounds, buster.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:34
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Ethics_Gradient posted:Yeah, the catch is that driers are not all that common here (relative to the US, where they're basically a human right), at least at all the properties I've been looking at, so I reckon I'm going to need to replace it. The wiring thread: Dryers are a human right in the USA
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Feb 19, 2016 06:00
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slap me silly posted:The wiring thread: Dryers are a human right in the USA You could apply the same subtitle to the plumbing thread, my dryer runs on natural gas and electricity.
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Feb 19, 2016 06:19
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Qwijib0 posted:
My dryer plugs into the same outlet that the washer does. Just a regular 16A circuit, I have no problems running both at the same time.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:51
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kid sinister posted:See, that's kind of where 210.8(A)(6) and (7) kind of collide. (6) says kitchen countertop outlets need GFCI protection, while (7) says within 6' of a sink edge. Isn't that 6' horizontally? Also, 210.8(D) new in 2014 says that dishwashers specifically must be GFCI protected. I imagine that their outlets would fall under the "readily accessible" rule, so they would either need a GFCI breaker, or a GFCI outlet in the next cabinet over. There are no exceptions for certain appliances anymore, just outlets where the rules wouldn't apply, like the outlet for a fridge that is farther than 6' from the sink and not a countertop outlet. the inspectors where i'm located (western washington, puget sound area) are interpreting it as 6' no matter which direction. they also do not consider a GFCI recep. under the sink to be readily accessible in most cases so we're pigeonholed into the new dual function GFCI/AFCI breakers as the best option. which i don't mind really, slap them in and you're done. the greatest feeling is putting a newer 2-pole AFCI breaker on two existing circuits with a shared neutral....holding your breath and praying.....and the elation when it holds when you turn it on saving you possibly hours and hours of work, lol. i still get giddy every time.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:13
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crocodile posted:the inspectors where i'm located (western washington, puget sound area) are interpreting it as 6' no matter which direction. they also do not consider a GFCI recep. under the sink to be readily accessible in most cases so we're pigeonholed into the new dual function GFCI/AFCI breakers as the best option. You obviously need a 12-gang surface mount box mounted next to the panel to hold all your GFCI-only devices while using AFCI-only breakers. I am familiar with praying to pagan gods from my Sys Admin days. You make an offering to the silicon idol before leaving on a 3 day weekend.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:41
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Deedle posted:If Australia is anything like it is here, a dryer will just plug in on a regular circuit. Your dryer is either natural gas/propane heated or microscopically small. Normal sized residential electric dryers in the US require a 240v circuit at 20 or 30 amps.
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Feb 21, 2016 17:38
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It's most likely a ventless heat pump dryer. A lot more efficient than a standard electric dryer, so it doesn't need to draw as much current. (It is still slower than a typical electric or gas dryer, though)
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Feb 21, 2016 19:00
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Motronic posted:Your dryer is either natural gas/propane heated or microscopically small. Normal sized residential electric dryers in the US require a 240v circuit at 20 or 30 amps. As for tiny, it takes 7kg of laundry, which is more than the washer does. So tiny is relative in that regard. It's a normal sized heat pump unit, rated at 9A by Whirlpool. It's the kind of the standard type of dryer for my neck of Europe. I really don't see any reason why a dryer needs to use almost all the available capacity you get for a single phase hook-up. A normal size residential power hook-up is 25A, single phase. I have a 25A per phase 3 phase hook-up. The next step up would be 40A, and beyond that 65A is considered an industrial hook-up with all the bullshit that comes with getting that installed. Generally speaking appliances that need more than 2.5kW to run tend to be 3 phase. Why gently caress around with 240V 20A when you can do the same with 400V 12A? If I'm not mistaken (I might be, I'm not an electrician) using 3 phase to power a 4.8kW appliance means only drawing 4A per phase. Which seems safer to me, and cheaper because 4A doesn't need anything other than regular 2.5mm^2 cable. 20A would probably require a 4 or 6mm^2 cable, which means specialist connectors and a whole lot of crap that's much more expensive than just running 3x2.5^2 even if that means you need 3 of everything.
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Feb 25, 2016 13:02
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New residential construction in the US typically gets 200 amp service (120V 2 leg, so you can get 240V if you wire across the legs). The house I'm in now was built in late 1994, and has 100 amp service. I think the breaker for our dryer is 30 amps @ 240V. It's basically a motor for the drum, a timer, and a heating element. Fairly sure the motor is 120V, and the timer is definitely 120V.
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Feb 26, 2016 07:01
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some texas redneck posted:I think the breaker for our dryer is 30 amps @ 240V. It's basically a motor for the drum, a timer, and a heating element. Fairly sure the motor is 120V, and the timer is definitely 120V. That's typically what they do, and why you usually need a neutral for dryer outlets. Same deal with electric ranges/ovens. Not all of them need it, but enough do that you may as well put it in the outlet. Deedle posted:It's a normal sized heat pump unit, rated at 9A by Whirlpool. It's the kind of the standard type of dryer for my neck of Europe. Ahhh, heat pump. Makes a lot of sense but that's not something you find near me where gas is cheap and not considered an issue in regards to insurance.
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Feb 26, 2016 17:25
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I can't say I've ever seen a heat pump dryer in the US. I'm sure they exist, but they're Not A Thing where I live. Sounds like they may be cheaper to run than your typical US resistive heating element dryer, though they'd also probably take a lot longer.Motronic posted:That's typically what they do, and why you usually need a neutral for dryer outlets. Same deal with electric ranges/ovens. Not all of them need it, but enough do that you may as well put it in the outlet. Yup. The only electric ranges I've ever seen that didn't have at least some kind of 120V stuff inside have been the most bare-bones ones without a clock or oven light. And even then, they tend to bond the chassis to either neutral or ground (depending on if it's 3 or 4 wire). Now that I think about it, the neon indicator lights probably run on 120, don't they? I don't think I've ever seen a range that didn't at least have those, even the lovely narrow one from the
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Feb 28, 2016 09:11
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some texas redneck posted:Now that I think about it, the neon indicator lights probably run on 120, don't they? I don't think I've ever seen a range that didn't at least have those, even the lovely narrow one from the Nahh. You can get neon peanut lights to work at any voltage you want. I've got a can somewhere full of neon indicator lights, some 12VAC, some 24VAC, some 4kVAC, and everything in between. All comforting red or orange. Some are cleverly designed so they indicate "some kind of power" only; I've got a Wiggy Solenoid Voltage Tester that has a single neon light at the top; it lights up at full brightness starting at 15VAC, and runs just fine up to 466VAC (the highest I've tested it on). Something about increased resistance as current goes up means the I/V curve is nonlinear and the device is inherently self-limiting within a pretty wide range. Pretty much the converse of an LED.
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Feb 28, 2016 14:01
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some texas redneck posted:I can't say I've ever seen a heat pump dryer in the US. I'm sure they exist, but they're Not A Thing where I live. Sounds like they may be cheaper to run than your typical US resistive heating element dryer, though they'd also probably take a lot longer. Home Depot lists at least one Whirlpool heat pump dryer, but based on the reviews it seems to mostly be a thing for people with lovely / impossible dryer vent situations. It apparently doesn't require any outside venting.
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Feb 28, 2016 15:55
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some texas redneck posted:I can't say I've ever seen a heat pump dryer in the US. I'm sure they exist, but they're Not A Thing where I live. Sounds like they may be cheaper to run than your typical US resistive heating element dryer, though they'd also probably take a lot longer. They are common in high rise condo/apartment structures where people have in-condo washer/dryers. For example, this horrible website doesn't say it's heat pump, but dollars to donuts it is: http://www.christophechoo.com/idx/mls-15953479-10580_wilshire_boulevard_unit_16ne_los_angeles_ca_90024
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Feb 28, 2016 17:46
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H110Hawk posted:They are common in high rise condo/apartment structures where people have in-condo washer/dryers. For example, this horrible website doesn't say it's heat pump, but dollars to donuts it is: http://www.christophechoo.com/idx/mls-15953479-10580_wilshire_boulevard_unit_16ne_los_angeles_ca_90024 They do take forever. I have an LG combo washer / dryer that takes 3.5 hours per load and even then can't handle a large or towel-filled load.
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Feb 28, 2016 18:54
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