The Android Thread - He;pl - The Something Awful Forums

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ClassActionFursuit: Mar 15, 2006

Daily Forecast posted:

Quick toggles as they exist now are certainly not 'fringe use cases' and if you think so well then here I found you a better thread.

You should never disable Bluetooth, NFC, or GPS. Wifi maybe if you have some weird network topography you're exposed to like a lovely AP at work that you sometimes need to connect to but doesn't cover your area well but on the whole you should never disable that either. If you have working autobrightness then you don't need to adjust it and if you find you need to adjust it then you don't have working autobrightness.

As Grumpwagon accurately said, the fact that the toggles are there at all is encouragement to use them and the fact is you shouldn't be using them.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 19:53

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:51

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

This thread continues to amaze me.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:09

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

LastInLine posted:

You should never disable Bluetooth, NFC, or GPS. Wifi maybe if you have some weird network topography you're exposed to like a lovely AP at work that you sometimes need to connect to but doesn't cover your area well but on the whole you should never disable that either. If you have working autobrightness then you don't need to adjust it and if you find you need to adjust it then you don't have working autobrightness.

As Grumpwagon accurately said, the fact that the toggles are there at all is encouragement to use them and the fact is you shouldn't be using them.

Epic thissery.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:10

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

*gets huge bullhorn out of back of pickup truck in best buy parking lot* PEOPLE OF ANDROID! STOP JANITORING YOUR PHONE! STOP TOLERATING OUTDATED AND BUGGY SOFTWARE! MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE AND DUMP THOSE WORTHLESS PILES OF SILICON INTO THE PURGING FIRES OF INDIAS RARE EARTH METAL RECLAMATION JUNK YARDS AND GET A PHONE THAT FOLLOWS OUR LORD SUNDAR'S VISION! HE KNOWS BEST! HE'S SMARTER, LEANER, AND BALDER THAN YOU! TRUST IN SUNDAR!
:worship:

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:14

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Daily Forecast posted:

No, I don't understand his point,

You got this part right.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:16

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Grumpwagon posted:

I want to acknowledge that at least for me this is mostly true. The differences between, say, that picture of the G2's out of box notification screen is way different than say, this:

That's a big improvement, but as for "So what is there, really, to complain about in TouchWiz?" I think I mentioned in my first post at least 2 reasons.

1) Having Quick Toggles visible on the second most important screen of Android suggests to a user that they should be used. This is what leads people to toggle WiFi, NFC and Bluetooth. One of the most important principles of design is that you should subtly suggest to a user how a device should be used. Toggling stuff like that on and off is very much a thing normal Android users have been trained to do by having the settings so readily available (I'm basing this on people coming in to the thread who aren't regulars, and the user testing I've done at work). The notification screen space is among the most valuable resources on the phone now since you can perform actions on notifications. Having 1/4 of that taken up rather than 1/2 is a huge step forward, but less is still better.

My only point about all this is, after a long time of being in the woods on this, I believe Android finally understands good design. I think every change that Samsung makes to go away from good design (I'm sure there are changes they make that are just as well designed or better, I just can't think of any at the moment) are bad on their face, and they make it harder to update.

Which brings us to:

2) With monthly security updates being a thing now, updates should matter, even to normal users. I'm not suggesting normal users should know about and demand their monthly security updates, I'm suggesting vendors should care about user data and experience enough to make that a priority. Samsung clearly doesn't. You could argue that Google doesn't either, since they hoover in as much user data as possible, but I'd suggest that is wrong. They jealously secure their user data, since that's their real purpose behind the Android project.

I know that these two things are likely never coming up when normal people use Android. I completely acknowledge that noticing and valuing these things makes people in this thread spergy or turbo nerds or whatever. I reject on it's face the suggestion that these things don't matter to normal users, even if they don't consciously think about them ever. Security and good design are important on a device people use constantly and where they store their life, and should be called out when deficient.

Does this mean everyone who buys a Samsung device is a moron like some people in the thread say? No, life is full of tradeoffs. After writing two huge effort posts about this, I should disclose that my daily driver is an LG G2, and I like it. I bought it knowing the downsides (I won't go back into that whole decision, read back my history in this thread if you really care about it for some reason). However, does this mean that everyone who brings up problems with TouchWiz is a moron? No, of course not, for the reasons discussed above and others.

Pretty drat diplomatic but if I had my way I'd just post :thurman:

or:

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:18

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Thermopyle posted:

You got this part right.

His point is that Android should be designed such... that you don't know how to use your phone?

Anyone who says that quick toggles and autobrightness controls never have a use, ever, clearly never leave their basement.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:19

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

His point is that Android should be designed such... that you don't know how to use your phone?

Anyone who says that quick toggles and autobrightness controls never have a use, ever, clearly never leave their basement.

The OS handles all of this for you. I work in theatre so I turn down the brightness when I'm backstage or in the booth, and use the slider - does that mean I want the slider clogging up 20% of the most valuable real estate on the phone 24/7? Of course not.

I don't janitor WiFi, location, BT, or any of that ever - Instead I trust on my (most up-to-date, fully patched) OS to manage that for me, and it does.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:21

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Daily Forecast posted:

His point is that Android should be designed such... that you don't know how to use your phone?

Anyone who says that quick toggles and autobrightness controls never have a use, ever, clearly never leave their basement.

I just don't know what to say to this.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:22

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

When I'm in bed at night and reading my phone, I turn my brightness (and thus, adaptive brightness tolerance) down. When I'm in direct sunlight, I turn it up so I can see it better. If I'm out somewhere where I keep getting bombarded with lovely "connect to wifi :downs:

" notifications when I will turn it off until I'm back home. If I'm not using NFC I'll turn NFC off because obviously. Quick toggles also contain the torch function, which is... like, useful and stuff to turn on and off? And you'd want to turn airplane mode on or off?

"Never use quick toggles" is so stupid to me it boggles my loving mind

Smythe posted:

*gets huge bullhorn out (snip)

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

Daily Forecast fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 28, 2016

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:23

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

When I'm in bed at night and reading my phone, I turn my brightness (and thus, adaptive brightness tolerance) down. When I'm in direct sunlight, I turn it up so I can see it better. If I'm out somewhere where I keep getting bombarded with lovely "connect to wifi " notifications when I will turn it off until I'm back home. If I'm not using NFC I'll turn NFC off because obviously. Quick toggles also contain the torch function, which is... like, useful and stuff to turn on and off? And you'd want to turn airplane mode on or off?

"Never use quick toggles" is so stupid to me it boggles my loving mind

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

The OS will manage all those quick toggles for you, you don't need to manage them all day. This is literally what the phone OS is for.

Regarding your in-bed use - it takes literally .5 seconds to tab over to the deeper menu to get to the brightness slider. You're trading in like 20% of the notification pane for a slider that you use once per day, and is "buried" under a single tap. That's not a good trade.

Not a single word of my post was ironic or "shitposting." Sundar and the Android team have a vision for how their OS is to be used, and they literally know better than you about it. If you use the device as intended you will be cared for and your experience will be improved. Stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find happiness in your life.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:28

Lowen SoDium: Jun 5, 2003; Highen Fiber; Clapping Larry

Daily Forecast posted:

Quick toggles as they exist now are certainly not 'fringe use cases' and if you think so well then here I found you a better thread.

Last in Line beat me too it, but quick toggles for things like GPS, Bluetooth, and NFC most certainly are fringe cases and the use of them shouldn't be promoted by phone makers.

The problem is not giving users the option to make quick toggles for any function of the phone. The problem is making the default a bunch of stuff that users shouldn't encouraged to changing.

But if you are so inclined to micro manage every single sub system of your phone, maybe I should suggest a phone OS for you.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:33

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Smythe posted:

The OS will manage all those quick toggles for you, you don't need to manage them all day. This is literally what the phone OS is for.

The phone magically knows when I want the flashlight or airplane mode on or off? Cool beans. How is it, living in the year 2050 with sentient AI on your telephone?

Smythe posted:

Regarding your in-bed use - it takes literally .5 seconds to tab over to the deeper menu to get to the brightness slider.

Two finger scroll down > gear icon > scroll to display > brightness level > keep doing this if I decide "eh, could be a little brighter/darker" up to five times or so

Oh gosh you're right how convenient that is! Except no, that's terrible, and I will gladly give up a tiny bit of screen real estate for the convenience of "two fingers, there it is". It's almost like people are different and like their phones to do different things but nah this is the Android thread and that's crazy.

Christ, why don't you all have iPhones?

Smythe posted:

have a vision for how their OS is to be used, and they literally know better than you about it

hahaha holy poo poo

Lowen SoDium posted:

But if you are so inclined to micro manage every single sub system of your phone, maybe I should suggest a phone OS for you.

"Tap icon to turn off GPS when I don't need it" is not "micromanaging every single sub system".

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:39

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

Daily Forecast posted:

"Tap icon to turn off GPS when I don't need it" is not "micromanaging every single sub system".

That is exactly what it is? Its really odd you cant see that

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:41

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

It's really odd to me that you consider it such a sisyphean task to press a toggle button.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:44

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

I leave my NFC turned off because I literally don't use it for anything ever right now, and once Samsung Pay is available here in Canada I still won't use NFC because it uses MST. I would be very happy if I could disable displaying the brightness slider on Touchwiz in the tray, but it's not a big deal.

Yall are making mountains out of molehills.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:46

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

CLAM DOWN posted:

I leave my NFC turned off because I literally don't use it for anything ever right now,

NFC is a worthless feature because it's literally allowed nobody ever to not carry a wallet (and thus all of their credit cards) anyway.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:48

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

The phone magically knows when I want the flashlight or airplane mode on or off? Cool beans. How is it, living in the year 2050 with sentient AI on your telephone?

I don't turn airplane mode on unless I'm on an airplane. Which isn't every day.

quote:

Two finger scroll down > gear icon > scroll to display > brightness level > keep doing this if I decide "eh, could be a little brighter/darker" up to five times or so

On a Nexus phone, the pane with the toggles is just a farther pull, or double-pull down on the shade. No clicking gears or whatever you need to do on whatever broken OEM skin you're accustomed to.

quote:

Oh gosh you're right how convenient that is! Except no, that's terrible, and I will gladly give up a tiny bit of screen real estate for the convenience of "two fingers, there it is". It's almost like people are different and like their phones to do different things but nah this is the Android thread and that's crazy.

Christ, why don't you all have iPhones?

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I have an Android phone because it's the best mobile operating system and I use all their web apps at home and at work.

quote:

"Tap icon to turn off GPS when I don't need it" is not "micromanaging every single sub system".

it is.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:51

WattsvilleBlues: Jan 25, 2005; Every demon wants his pound of flesh

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Ordered an S7 from Vodafone UK, got a deal I couldn't pass up. I've never had a Samsung phone before and I'm a bit nervous about UX jank coming from my Xperia Z3 Compact with the Concept ROM.

Anyway, was wondering if there are any recommendations for a wireless charging pad for the S7, preferably one with the faster charging. Also, will my regular Anker micro-USB cables support fast charging?

Some of us have actual things to ask here, people.

Anyone? Bueller?

# ? Feb 28, 2016 20:57

boz: Oct 16, 2005

I don't see what the big deal is with toggles taking up a little bit of notification space. Do you people walk around with 4 or more notifications up constantly?

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:04

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

LastInLine posted:

You should never disable Bluetooth, NFC, or GPS. Wifi maybe if you have some weird network topography you're exposed to like a lovely AP at work that you sometimes need to connect to but doesn't cover your area well but on the whole you should never disable that either. If you have working autobrightness then you don't need to adjust it and if you find you need to adjust it then you don't have working autobrightness.

As Grumpwagon accurately said, the fact that the toggles are there at all is encouragement to use them and the fact is you shouldn't be using them.

Also, there are apps like llama or probably tasker that can control your wireless for you, like automatically disabling it when you leave certain networks and enabling it when you get back. Seems much simpler than loving around with the WiFi toggle everyday.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:07

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Smythe posted:

On a Nexus phone, the pane with the toggles is just a farther pull, or double-pull down on the shade. No clicking gears or whatever you need to do on whatever broken OEM skin you're accustomed to.

Nexus phones have a gear icon and quick toggles as well.

Smythe posted:

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I have an Android phone because it's the best mobile operating system and I use all their web apps at home and at work.

Might as well, you clearly just want something that just werks instead of an actual useful tool that you can customize to your individual needs. "Our Lord Sundar's vision"? loving really?

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:08

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Some of us have actual things to ask here, people.

Anyone? Bueller?

My first thought when I saw your post was 'holy poo poo you consider �44 a month for your phone a great deal??'

Have you done the maths on how much you'd be paying for that s7 over the 2 years?

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:09

Lowen SoDium: Jun 5, 2003; Highen Fiber; Clapping Larry

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Some of us have actual things to ask here, people.

Anyone? Bueller?

TYLT has been the recommended wireless charger around here, but I don't think it does the fast wireless charging.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:11

nocal: Mar 7, 2007

Zom Aur posted:

Also, there are apps like llama or probably tasker that can control your wireless for you, like automatically disabling it when you leave certain networks and enabling it when you get back. Seems much simpler than loving around with the WiFi toggle everyday.

Don't turn stuff on and off because it can actually decrease battery life. There are edge cases, like where your phone connects/drops a weak WiFi signal over and over, but otherwise don't bother.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:15

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

nocal posted:

Don't turn stuff on and off because it can actually decrease battery life. There are edge cases, like where your phone connects/drops a weak WiFi signal over and over, but otherwise don't bother.

I know.

People are arguing about how useful the quick toggles are, and my point is that if they use them so much that they need it on the first screen of the notifications, then maybe they should spend 5 minutes to make it more automatic instead.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:25

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

When I'm in bed at night and reading my phone, I turn my brightness (and thus, adaptive brightness tolerance) down. When I'm in direct sunlight, I turn it up so I can see it better. If I'm out somewhere where I keep getting bombarded with lovely "connect to wifi " notifications when I will turn it off until I'm back home. If I'm not using NFC I'll turn NFC off because obviously. Quick toggles also contain the torch function, which is... like, useful and stuff to turn on and off? And you'd want to turn airplane mode on or off?

"Never use quick toggles" is so stupid to me it boggles my loving mind

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

Like LastInLine said, if you have working autobrightness, it will do this for you. If it doesn't, you don't have working autobrightness. *Maybe* you need to manually adjust when you first get the phone to train it to where you like it in different light levels.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:25

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

Nexus phones have a gear icon and quick toggles as well.

quote:

Might as well, you clearly just want something that just werks instead of an actual useful tool that you can customize to your individual needs. "Our Lord Sundar's vision"? loving really?

Yes, it's good to have things that work. Especially something I literally rely on.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:25

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Smythe posted:

<image showing the gear icon and quick toggles>

I use a Moto G, which is the same stock Android. I know what I'm talking about.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:30

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

I use a Moto G, which is the same stock Android. I know what I'm talking about.

You don't need to menu dive to get to the brightness slider. It's on a second pull down. The quick toggles are also there. I have no idea what you're getting at when you insinuate that it's an inconvenience to get to them. Certainly not buried so deep that it's preferable to clog up the main pane with "quick toggles" that are marginally (seriously marginally) "quicker" than just pulling it down twice.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:34

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

Smythe posted:

You don't need to menu dive to get to the brightness slider. It's on a second pull down. The quick toggles are also there. I have no idea what you're getting at when you insinuate that it's an inconvenience to get to them. Certainly not buried so deep that it's preferable to clog up the main pane with "quick toggles" that are marginally (seriously marginally) "quicker" than just pulling it down twice.

Smythe did you consider that maybe he has a physical issue making downward swipes extremely difficult so removing a second one is a great convenience? Please be kind to the handicapped.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:36

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Smythe posted:

You don't need to menu dive to get to the brightness slider. It's on a second pull down. The quick toggles are also there. I have no idea what you're getting at when you insinuate that it's an inconvenience to get to them. Certainly not buried so deep that it's preferable to clog up the main pane with "quick toggles" that are marginally (seriously marginally) "quicker" than just pulling it down twice.

I'm saying it doesn't loving matter and that guy (and you, apparently) was all for removing them entirely, which is patently ridiculous.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:37

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

I'm saying it doesn't loving matter and that guy (and you, apparently) was all for removing them entirely, which is patently ridiculous.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:38

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Lowen SoDium posted:

quick toggles for things like GPS, Bluetooth, and NFC most certainly are fringe cases and the use of them shouldn't be promoted by phone makers.

LastInLine posted:

You should never disable Bluetooth, NFC, or GPS.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:41

hooah: Feb 6, 2006; WTF?

Daily Forecast posted:

Nexus phones have a gear icon and quick toggles as well.

Yes, but the brightness slider that you use so much is right at the top of the quick settings panel. You don't have to dig around in the regular settings, just swipe twice/two-finger swipe and there it is.

Edit: beaten like gently caress.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:42

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

You're confused. I'm saying that notification panes that have this horse poo poo on them:

CLAM DOWN posted:

BeastOfExmoor posted:

is bad. It's useless, points users towards bad behavior, and is ugly.

There is no case for when what I posted above is better than bog-standard stock Android. The OEM adding this software makes the phone worse.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:43

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

You're confused again. There are 2 matters you're confused about :

1) Those toggles are behind a single swipe. Not "buried" or behind a "gear" or anything. A single swipe.

2) You should rarely be interacting with these in the first place. The OS will turn them on and off as needed without your intervention, and the phone will work better as a result.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:45

Daily Forecast: Dec 25, 2008; by R. Guyovich

^ and my point is that that's what you'd have to do to change screen brightness if you had no quick toggles at all.

Smythe posted:

is bad. It's useless, points users towards bad behavior, and is ugly.

Looks fine to me. How does requiring another swipe (something very natural to do) "point users towards bad behavior" any less?

And I still say that it's certainly not 'bad behavior' to toggle poo poo you do and don't want. It's part of what makes Android so powerful and such a great mobile OS! The ability to customize and tell the phone to do what you want it to do, instead of having Steve Jobs tell you how to use your phone from beyond the grave! If somebody wants to turn off NFC or GPS, why do you care? Why is that bad?

It's not worse, or better, just different. It takes up no real extra screen estate, too, and if that quarter inch actually impacts you in a meaningful way then you have too many notifications. Clear those fuckers out.

edit: If Google said "we decided that you shouldn't be able to turn GPS off so we disabled that feature" I'd be loving pissed and I'd probably switch to WP10.

Daily Forecast fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 28, 2016

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:48

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

So, I'm glad to see some of you missed the point Grumpwagon's posts and everyone immediately jumped to the two extreme ends of the discussion.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:54

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:51

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Ordered an S7 from Vodafone UK, got a deal I couldn't pass up. I've never had a Samsung phone before and I'm a bit nervous about UX jank coming from my Xperia Z3 Compact with the Concept ROM.

Anyway, was wondering if there are any recommendations for a wireless charging pad for the S7, preferably one with the faster charging. Also, will my regular Anker micro-USB cables support fast charging?

The official Samsung wireless charging pad may be the best choice, now that they have an angled one.

Your regular micro-USB cables should be fine for fast charging.

# ? Feb 28, 2016 21:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > The Android Thread - He;pl

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