|
shame on an IGA posted:My governor Nikki Haley this morning on national television:  Yep. It's a shame, it isn't President Obama's fault, but he broke something deep. It seems this is something that isn't going to conveniently dissipate after Nov. 7.
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 08:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
As someone who has studied finkism, I think we should have a "battle royale" to decide who gets to live incisions in the room of light.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 08:25
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:You not wanting to live a life of abject misery isn't the problem, it's that you actively want brown people to live in abject misery when neither of you has to. But how could you feel good about yourself if you don't have someone to look down upon? There are way more people in the world who want a middle class American job than there are jobs available. If you open up those jobs to anyone in the world who wants them the standard of living for the average American would go way down.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 13:36
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:My governor Nikki Haley this morning on national television: I honestly don't get why minorities like Haley and Jindal are in the GOP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 13:45
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:There are way more people in the world who want a middle class American job than there are jobs available. If you open up those jobs to anyone in the world who wants them the standard of living for the average American would go way down. Good job mate, fight Malaysian factory workers for the scraps from the rich man's table
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
Kinda surprised that so many purported progressives itt become neoliberal free traders when it comes to labor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 13:53
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:I honestly don't get why minorities like Haley and Jindal are in the GOP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Good job mate, fight Malaysian factory workers for the scraps from the rich man's table Or just give up your jobs while you wait for the glorious revolution? Protectionism works and it ensures jobs in this country, to expect American workers to suddenly be ok with playing wage arbitrage with billions of people making a dollar a day is stupid as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:06
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:There are way more people in the world who want a middle class American job than there are jobs available. If you open up those jobs to anyone in the world who wants them the standard of living for the average white person would go way down. Let's not mince words here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:06
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Let's not mince words here. There's about 180 million people in Japan Taiwan and South Korea who would be on board with what he said too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Let's not mince words here. White people (the good white people, not trash prole whites) don't have to compete with foreigners, because they are educated and their jobs require knowledge of english and cultural nuances. Black and hispanic groups are underserved by education and more likely to work jobs that can be done by anyone with a pulse, such as illegal immigrants. Well-off whites are some of the biggest beneficiaries of illegal immigration. They don't have to live in immigrant neighborhoods, but still get to take advantage of delicious ethnic foods and cheap day labor when building a deck or hiring a maid.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:17
|
|
|
Honestly, I'm not even sure what a Trump presidency does on the conversation with race. I feel pretty confident how other actors are going to play it - the KKK has been doing robocalls from Trump, if they feel they 'win' something, they're going to grow in numbers and power, which is bad. And we'll get some more Dylann Roofs coming out of the woodwork, which is also bad. BLM and similar groups are going to do their thing, for however long that works. But just wtf is Trump himself going to do? What is social media going to do? Talk of camps or whatever are way overblown, but I just don't see how it's actually going to play out. Hell, I don't even think Trump knows how it's going to play out. Everything I've seen of him so far suggest he's playing it all by ear, the wall was just kind of something he threw out that got SUPER loving popular. So he kept repeating it. All his talks, he's been changing his policies depending on which gets a good response. What happens when that person becomes president? How does he wing it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
menino posted:There's about 180 million people in Japan Taiwan and South Korea who would be on board with what he said too. And he doesn't give a poo poo about a single one of those people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:21
|
|
|
You missed the point, it's that those countries basically do exactly what was suggested, already. Worldwide, it's rather typical, sad as that is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
menino posted:Or just give up your jobs while you wait for the glorious revolution? Protectionism works and it ensures jobs in this country, to expect American workers to suddenly be ok with playing wage arbitrage with billions of people making a dollar a day is stupid as poo poo. If you think Republicans are actually going to implement protectionism then you're stupid as poo poo buddy. If Republicans were interested in protecting jobs rather than creating a permanent illegal underclass that has no legal recourse against abusive employers then they'd be talking about prosecuting businesses who hire illegals, not building a ridiculous wall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:If Republicans were interested in protecting jobs rather than creating a permanent illegal underclass that has no legal recourse against abusive employers then they'd be talking about prosecuting businesses who hire illegals, not building a ridiculous wall. I'm sure that Trump understands he has much more latitude with executive orders and administration to end illegal immigration than building a wall. A wall would require congress to act, but a series of rules to clamp down on the financial system to smoke out illegal immigrants is a simple pen stroke away. Also Trump can pull an Obama and flat out refuse to enforce laws that he is opposed to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
on the left posted:I'm sure that Trump understands he has much more latitude with executive orders and administration to end illegal immigration than building a wall. A wall would require congress to act, but a series of rules to clamp down on the financial system to smoke out illegal immigrants is a simple pen stroke away. Also Trump can pull an Obama and flat out refuse to enforce laws that he is opposed to. You're high as poo poo if you think Trump is going to do anything that could be potentially perceived as regulating businesses.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:34
|
|
|
Trump doesn't want to protect American jobs any more than he gives a poo poo about overturning Obergefell and Roe v Wade. This is the Trump phenomenon, people seeing a bombastic liar and convincing themselves that he's only telling those other people what they want to hear but when he's talking to me it's because he cares and wants to help me. Protecting jobs and wages means being pro-union and it means coming down hard on businesses for hiring illegally, not coming down on illegal immigrants and making it impossible for them to report unlawful employment practices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Protecting jobs and wages means being pro-union and it means coming down hard on businesses for hiring illegally, not coming down on illegal immigrants and making it impossible for them to report unlawful employment practices. Why not encourage self-deportation by making employment virtually impossible, while also actively seeking out illegal immigrants who will be resistant to this strategy, such as informal sector workers and those who rely on crime to make a living? Illegal immigrants operate with impunity in the country, and it only takes a few small changes in the financial sector and provision of public services to root them out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
on the left posted:Illegal immigrants operate with impunity in the country, Literally the opposite of reality.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:I honestly don't get why minorities like Haley and Jindal are in the GOP. The so-called Reagan Democrats are Republican nowadays, too. You need to update your stereotypes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
on the left posted:Why not encourage self-deportation by making employment virtually impossible, while also actively seeking out illegal immigrants who will be resistant to this strategy, such as informal sector workers and those who rely on crime to make a living? Because there will always be a supply of low wage workers if businesses are undeterred from unlawfully hiring them. Because there are fewer business owners than illegals, the owners are well-documented and easy to find, and once you start fining them and/or throwing them in jail the marginal benefit of hiring illegal workers is outweighed by the risk, and all of that's much easier and cheaper than tracking down a million undocumented people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:51
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Because there will always be a supply of low wage workers if businesses are undeterred from unlawfully hiring them. Because there are fewer business owners than illegals, the owners are well-documented and easy to find, and once you start fining them and/or throwing them in jail the marginal benefit of hiring illegal workers is outweighed by the risk, and all of that's much easier and cheaper than tracking down a million undocumented people. As I mentioned, this would leave the workers in the informal and criminal sectors untouched. We need to catch these people when they are picked up by police or try to use the financial system. The ultimate problem is that you don't actually want to do anything about illegal immigration, so you are suggesting softball solutions that won't meaningfully affect illegal immigrant numbers. Trump is doing well precisely because he is ignoring these types of unhelpful concern trolling suggestions from people who would never vote for him in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 14:59
|
|
|
Amazing how the ostensibly pro-worker rhetoric changes when I suggest businesses face consequences for breaking the law. Now it's not about ensuring workers get good wages at all, it's about um stopping violent crime!
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Amazing how the ostensibly pro-worker rhetoric changes when I suggest businesses face consequences for breaking the law. Well duh, why would someone want to get rid of what basically amounts to slave labor?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:
he was black and left of Mussolini so he broke the bases brain. VitalSigns posted:Trump doesn't want to protect American jobs any more than he gives a poo poo about overturning Obergefell and Roe v Wade. This is the Trump phenomenon, people seeing a bombastic liar and convincing themselves that he's only telling those other people what they want to hear but when he's talking to me it's because he cares and wants to help me. this. if he got elected. he would probably build the wall(try too) or and deport a ton of people. that would act of enough of a placebo effect for the base.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:18
|
|
|
also. this just happend in russia. https://news.vice.com/article/woman-holding-decapitated-childs-head-arrested-outside-moscow-metro-station-1 expect trump to get a whole lot worse on the muslim front.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:24
|
|
|
This is why the right-wing approach to populism is doomed to fail to help workers. In reality, it's all about creating a hierarchy of labor based on nationalism, race, gender, etc. as a response to poor employment prospects. The large scale market machinery that destroys the middle class is mostly left to function without any real change. When things fail to significantly improve because the root causes of wealth inequality remain unaddressed, there's always another scapegoat to bring forward to explain why things suck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Amazing how the ostensibly pro-worker rhetoric changes when I suggest businesses face consequences for breaking the law. Businesses absolutely should face fines and jail time for hiring illegal immigrants. Notice how I said "while also". UV_Catastrophe posted:When things fail to significantly improve because the root causes of wealth inequality remain unaddressed, there's always another scapegoat to bring forward to explain why things suck. Illegal immigration imports income inequality into the nation (increasing the ratio of desperately poor people to the rich), another reason it should be stopped.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Trump doesn't want to protect American jobs any more than he gives a poo poo about overturning Obergefell and Roe v Wade. This is the Trump phenomenon, people seeing a bombastic liar and convincing themselves that he's only telling those other people what they want to hear but when he's talking to me it's because he cares and wants to help me. Oh, so Trump is the Ron Paul of this cycle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
Border control is by far the most realistic scenario for reducing immigration. Telling people to vote for politicians who are going to crack down on businesses who hire illegals is nonsense, no one on the right or left is going to after the thousands of small businesses that do the majority of hiring illegals even assuming the government had anything like the monitoring and enforcement capable of such a scale of oversight. Even for big businesses it would be quite difficult to prove legal culpability. The left (both in the sense of liberalism and actual leftists) really isn't concerned about mass immigration though. Either it's actually what they want to happen or it's an inevitable consequences of the implementation of their policies. All other consequences of mass immigration (demographic replacement, community transformation, multiculturalism, etc) are neutrals or positives in their eyes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Not to shift the topic much- but I do have a question for the free trade, open borders wing of the left. What is your opinion on scabs?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
The country must seriously be this bad off of if people are taking someone like Donald Trump seriously. That's not an inditement on those that support him, but rather how bad the political system in this country has failed to serve the lower and middle class. Aren't we about to head to another recession/financial crisis? The political elites in power from both sides caused this by ignoring the problems being faced by the middle class created by them helping the rich get richer. Trump is the monster that not only the right created? But the left as well. Nobody was pacified. Nothing was solved. How many times did people in power sign deals like NAFTA or other trade deals that cost millions of american's jobs? How many times did the government put off putting some form of Health Care reform? The middle class got destroyed in the process. Kids were saddled with a ridicolous amount of student loans, and their parents saw their home's fore closed on. Nobody did a single thing about it. All of this could have been avoided. That's what's frustrating about all of this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:The country must seriously be this bad off of if people are taking someone like Donald Trump seriously. This would have more merit if I hadn't heard it about literally every single GOP candidate in the past decade. Like, do you honestly believe Santorum is a better candidate than Trump? Huckabee?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:16
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:Aren't we about to head to another recession/financial crisis? It if pops before the election, Trump will win. If it pops after and HRC wins, it will sink the dems, as they will get linked to it in voter's minds.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
Whitecloak posted:Not to shift the topic much- but I do have a question for the free trade, open borders wing of the left. What is your opinion on scabs?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
TheNakedFantastic posted:Border control is by far the most realistic scenario for reducing immigration. Telling people to vote for politicians who are going to crack down on businesses who hire illegals is nonsense, no one on the right or left is going to after the thousands of small businesses that do the majority of hiring illegals even assuming the government had anything like the monitoring and enforcement capable of such a scale of oversight. Even for big businesses it would be quite difficult to prove legal culpability. It takes less monitoring and oversight to enforce employment laws than to track down millions of undocumented people. The reason the right isn't going after businesses is they want an underclass of undocumented immigrants bidding down wages while they placate workers with theatre about walls. TheNakedFantastic posted:The left (both in the sense of liberalism and actual leftists) really isn't concerned about mass immigration though. Either it's actually what they want to happen or it's an inevitable consequences of the implementation of their policies. All other consequences of mass immigration (demographic replacement, community transformation, multiculturalism, etc) are neutrals or positives in their eyes. Having to see filthy nonwhites is not, actually, a detriment to anyone except ignorant racists hth
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:42
|
|
|
Whitecloak posted:Not to shift the topic much- but I do have a question for the free trade, open borders wing of the left. What is your opinion on scabs? Well the right is all about union-busting so good job voting for big business to destroy labor rights because they convinced you Mexicans stole your retirement plan
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Well the right is all about union-busting so good job voting for big business to destroy labor rights because they convinced you Mexicans stole your retirement plan Unless we're all taking a pledge to vote some socialist slate I don't see any real pro-union pols on either major party ticket. And there are plenty of Mexican-Americans who benefitted from unionization in America's better days. Labor is made valuable in scarcity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
nelson posted:Scabs are people too. So are banksters. Won't somebody please think of the poor Goldman Sachs associates?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:49
|
|