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FuriousAngle posted:So what I'm trying to figure out is how the tension comes into play. I'm not saying I want to TPK every time, but if nothing is a problem then where does the excitement come from? Does the challenge come from throwing bigger and bigger hordes at them? Or are the rules for nemesis characters powerful enough so that they get taken down before they even get a chance to act? The tension, from what I've run so far and observed in other people, isn't so much in everyone getting shot to pieces, it's whatever the GM and players come up with when those threat symbols start piling up, or the oh poo poo of seeing a despair in the mix. Darth Vader doesn't take Luke to 0hp. He rolls high on the crit you take at half HP and lops his hand off and then Lukes player makes a leap into the abyss because it's a cool way to end the fight. (Note - never up the difficulty of a check to red unless you have a cool idea of what to use for the despair result if it comes up.)
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Mar 1, 2016 00:56
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ShineDog posted:(Note - never up the difficulty of a check to red unless you have a cool idea of what to use for the despair result if it comes up.) This is actually a pretty good tip, any time you've got an enemy who is regularly going to creating a red dice rolls. Make sure you've got one or two things to flip that despair on. Sure you can always use the fallback 'you're gun fails' but if its a Nemesis or dramatic moment it's really handy to have something dramatic up you're sleeve.
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Mar 1, 2016 01:00
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See, that's something I like about combat in this system: it's a lot less about mechanical grinding and power levels (so far that I've seen) and a lot more about preparation and risk management. When people start shooting, all it takes is one nasty result and poo poo has gotten extremely real. If your players are acting like it's D&D, it sounds to me like they need an example of what happens when the dice are not their friend. Aside from one early combat in which I got shot and the party almost got wiped if not for some creative maneuvers, the IRL group I'm playing with has only gotten into a few minor scuffles - the equivalent of bar-room brawls. Mostly we've consciously tried to avoid escalating anything to a lethal firefight, and have felt compelled to run the gently caress away from anything that we know is dangerous but don't fully understand (which is a great way to use lurking adversaries, by the way).
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Mar 1, 2016 01:19
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homullus posted:If the PCs in Edge of the Empire are not regularly being double-crossed and cheated, you might ask yourself why you're playing that setting at all. The challenge is not necessarily the threat of character death, but the threat of losing the tiny amount of distance they may have put between themselves and Rock Bottom. Hopefully! Eventually they're going to run into someone they can't blast through and have their poo poo stolen and find themselves stranded on a planet worse than Tatooine. Then we'll see who's laughing. kingcom posted:Nemesis... drat good advice. The Adversary rule makes me a lot more hopeful that there will be a decent challenge to be had using the rules as they're written. I need someone to out-rear end in a top hat my players. Someone that will make the audience (me, really) root for the players over them. ShineDog posted:The tension, from what I've run so far and observed in other people, isn't so much in everyone getting shot to pieces, it's whatever the GM and players come up with when those threat symbols start piling up, or the oh poo poo of seeing a despair in the mix. Darth Vader doesn't take Luke to 0hp. He rolls high on the crit you take at half HP and lops his hand off and then Lukes player makes a leap into the abyss because it's a cool way to end the fight. I'm going to remember the hell out of a lot of advice here, but this part in particular seems critical. Corbeau posted:When people start shooting, all it takes is one nasty result and poo poo has gotten extremely real. If your players are acting like it's D&D, it sounds to me like they need an example of what happens when the dice are not their friend. This is what I'm hoping for. I need there to be one situation where they realize "Oh drat, this isn't a system we can go blasting our way through the very instant our diplomacy check fails." It just needs to happen soon before things get too far out of hand and I just decide to give up on them. FuriousAngle fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 03:11
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FuriousAngle posted:drat good advice. The Adversary rule makes me a lot more hopeful that there will be a decent challenge to be had using the rules as they're written. I need someone to out-rear end in a top hat my players. Someone that will make the audience (me, really) root for the players over them. Might I suggest the friendly agents of the Imperial Inquisition? Tough, hateable, and unlikely to be cowed by mere blasters. Also lightsabers. And Force powers.
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Mar 1, 2016 04:52
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Once I wrap up my F&D campaign, I'm looking at running two parallel AoR campaigns about fighter squadrons - one Imperial, one Rebel. Do the standard starfighter rules stand up to that as a concept, or should I look into playing around with them a bit?
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Mar 1, 2016 05:02
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It should work just fine as long as you take the time to make sure everyone knows the space combat rules pretty well. It can be the weakest part of the system even though everyone having their own ship alleviates that a bit.
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Mar 1, 2016 05:11
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Didn't AoR at some point (with the GM screen maybe? I forget) also include advanced rules for squadron-based fighter combat? How are those? The idea of a Wraith Squadron type campaign is just so good and I've been thinking about doing it for awhile.
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Mar 1, 2016 07:38
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Wraith Squadron is pretty much an RPG campaign in book form.
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Mar 1, 2016 07:51
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Drone posted:The idea of a Wraith Squadron type campaign is just so good and I've been thinking about doing it for awhile. We had a PbP game in this vein going a while back, but it fizzled out.  Somewhat unrelated, but if my new boss can nail down my schedule for the week with any consistency, I might try to run a PbP or Roll20 game in a similar fashion.
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Mar 1, 2016 07:54
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Drone posted:Didn't AoR at some point (with the GM screen maybe? I forget) also include advanced rules for squadron-based fighter combat? How are those? The AoR GM Kit and Stay On Target (and, to a much lesser extent, Fly Casual) have some advanced flying rules in them. They seem alright. Not huge, but a few new actions and Leadership formations to spice things up and a lot more terrain effects for Asteroids, Nebulas, etc to make space seem less empty. If there's interest in a dog fighting-heavy game, I've actually been tweaking around with a campaign that could run as a Roll20. "Star Wars RPG: Tales of Vandal Squadron," a semi-autonomous crew of elite Rebel Fighter Pilots running secret missions deep in enemy territory. I was thinking of running it Sunday mornings (PST) every couple weeks to catch as wide a crew of players as possible. There enough interest in this for me to start up a thread?
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Mar 1, 2016 09:34
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Drone posted:Didn't AoR at some point (with the GM screen maybe? I forget) also include advanced rules for squadron-based fighter combat? How are those? The Squadron based stuff basically just gives the PC extra health. It's really underdeveloped.
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Mar 1, 2016 14:30
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cptn_dr posted:Once I wrap up my F&D campaign, I'm looking at running two parallel AoR campaigns about fighter squadrons - one Imperial, one Rebel. You should consider playing around with them a little. Threat and Despair in terrestrial environments have farrrrrrrrr more flexibility than they do in the vacuum of space. And while starfighter-level gets rid of the transport-level issues (Pilot gets the most, and most interesting decisions, other people maybe roll a Mechanics check when you tell them to), it also means you don't have access to even those uses for Threat and Despair. Like, you won't often have to repel boarders on your X-wing.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:07
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homullus posted:Like, you won't often have to repel boarders on your X-wing.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:12
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homullus posted:And while starfighter-level gets rid of the transport-level issues (Pilot gets the most, and most interesting decisions, other people maybe roll a Mechanics check when you tell them to)
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Mar 1, 2016 16:29
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nelson posted:The most important thing is making sure everyone has something to do. In most player group ships (but not starfighters) you can have a Pilot, gunner, 2nd gunner (optional), navigator/astrogation, perception for radar, computers for electronic warfare, mechanic for repair, medic in case someone gets injured. And there can be overlap. The mechanic can take a gunner seat unless the ship is badly damaged for instance. Right. Even so, this is still "Pilot makes decisions, everyone else maybe makes a roll." Siivola posted:That's why you set it during the Clone Wars. Buzz droids everywhere, aaaah! Yeah, I was thinking of them specifically when I said "often." But since you don't actually get out of your ship to fight them, I don't see how buzz droids would actually be interesting as a regular threat. YMMV. I guess I really don't find space combat interesting without actual positioning and maneuver.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:47
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homullus posted:Right. Even so, this is still "Pilot makes decisions, everyone else just rolls. The pilot is just the driver. It's up to the group to make decisions such as stay and fight, try to escape, where to go to, etc... I think you're unecessarily overvaluing pilots in relation to everyone else.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:49
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susan posted:The AoR GM Kit and Stay On Target (and, to a much lesser extent, Fly Casual) have some advanced flying rules in them. They seem alright. Not huge, but a few new actions and Leadership formations to spice things up and a lot more terrain effects for Asteroids, Nebulas, etc to make space seem less empty. I missed the boat on the other weekend game, so yes, yes I would.
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Mar 1, 2016 18:25
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nelson posted:The pilot is just the driver. It's up to the group to make decisions such as stay and fight, try to escape, where to go to, etc... I think you're unecessarily overvaluing pilots in relation to everyone else. I think maybe there is a misunderstanding. Perhaps this will shed some light. PCs roll into Mos Eisley and spot an Imperial checkpoint. Even if they're on a speeder, PCs can hop off, regardless of what the driver decides he wants to do. The squishier PCs can look for cover. The sniper can find high ground, maybe a nice roof somewhere. If a given PC wants to target a specific enemy, that PC can do so, leaving the main area of conflict. The marauder can close to melee range and use her strengths in combat. All of these activities are based on their own individual skills and decisions. PCs in a transport-level campaign come out of hyperspace and spot an Imperial checkpoint. Since they are on a ship in the vacuum of space, PCs cannot hop off, and are at the mercy of what the pilot decides to do, and what the pilot's actual skill roll is, rather than their own.. Since they are in the vacuum of space, there is rarely cover, and no individual maneuver, except what the pilot chooses to do. Hopefully somebody has Gunnery, because ship guns are a completely different skill. Unless the PC has a 360-degree fire arc, the PC does not even have full control over which enemy gets shot at. The PC in the turret has the exciting choices of 1) shoot, or 2) not shoot. Once all guns are occupied (and they should be), what do the other PCs do? Maybe one PC is good with computers, and can jam comms or slice! That PC gets to roll Computers . . . and on the next turn, roll Computers . . . and on the next turn, roll Computers. Oh, but there's a shower of sparks! Now the PC has the exciting choice of 1) roll Computers again, or 2) go roll Mechanics. Like, yes, a good player running a Pilot will solicit input from the other players, but the final decision is always theirs, the roll always based on their skill, and the Pilot takes everyone else with them, in a scenario where literally every other player's choices are severely restricted. I know you can have fun space sessions and that you can make them frantic; I don't think space combat in FFG Star Wars RPGs has enough to base an entire campaign around it.
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Mar 1, 2016 18:46
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homullus posted:I don't think space combat in FFG Star Wars RPGs has enough to base an entire campaign around it.
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Mar 1, 2016 21:09
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nelson posted:The pilot is just the driver. It's up to the group to make decisions such as stay and fight, try to escape, where to go to, etc... I think you're unecessarily overvaluing pilots in relation to everyone else. I think you're half right, myself. I do agree with what homullus says though - the pilot is able to make more calls about where you're going, what you're doing, etc. in fights and when navigating around a planet/whatever, because they're the driver. Some players just jump to conclusions about what they should do without consulting the group (like deciding to fly after/engage a particular target, land in a dubious location, or what have you) and they have the power to do so, as they're the one at the helm. This isn't necessarily due to a lack of consideration; it can also just be from adrenaline/the rush of being in a more fast-paced part of the session such as space combat, however it still happens. (In my experience as a fellow player, at least. Doesn't help when the pilot is loud and tends to interrupt during normal conversation, while the rest of the group is fairly polite, heh)
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Mar 2, 2016 02:09
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In the game I play in we're all equally lousy pilots, which just gives us the excuse that whenever we dislike the direction a particular person is taking while flying / landing / maneuvering, we just shove them out of their seat or lean over their shoulder to grab the controls. It's probably for the best we don't get in many space battles.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:16
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Also, while I'm in here, I'm thinking about GMing my first game with a small group (just myself and three others - our main group is larger, but us four are the only ones who are consistently able to turn up) I've been playing various P&P RPGs with over the last few years, however I'm not sure what kind of equipment I'll need to buy. I mean, I've played EotE/AoR/etc. with some other friends a while back with their gear so I know I need to get the special dice for it, however is it like X-Wing where you'll really want to have at least twice the amount of dice that they sell per pack (or in a 'starter kit' if applicable), or can you easily make do with however many an individual pack contains? Same goes for any other gear (not necessarily specific to EotE itself, but can also include other stuff like notepads or what-have-you), since I really am new to GMing, so I want to make sure I've got my bases covered. Speaking of the new campaign, I've been thinking about diving in head-first with a custom campaign rather than one of the 'stock' ones in the handbook (since for one thing, I'm pretty sure at least one friend has been through some, seeing as they're also in the other group I mentioned who has played EotE in the past), and my two main ideas for the PCs are that they are: 1) A rebel strike team operating from a mobile base*, set pre-ANH or possibly post-battle of Hoth (just when the rebels have been beaten to near-death sort of thing, and they're relying more on hit-and-run attacks than before) 2) An Imperial team of infiltrators working within a rebel cell, working for them (although obviously not trying to deliver hard blows against the Empire), but feeding information and the like to their Imperial handlers. Likely set during/just before RotJ, so that after they've been doing that for a little while we can potentially shake things up by having the Empire fragment into groups controlled by various Moffs/warlords etc, and them being recalled and needing to either side with their handlers, or side with the loyalists (Isaard was in charge of them, right? Can't remember - I don't have that much EU knowledge), or potentially defect to the New Republic Still working on mission/quest ideas for both 'starts', but yeah, getting there. Has anyone had experience running games in scenarios like either of the two I'm proposing? Since I can definitely use suggestions, if there's something you'd advise me to do differently to how I have planned, or if there are any other issues. Thanks for any and all information - I'm trying to soak in as much as I can like a sponge, so hopefully it'll all pay off, come the first session! * Here's another problem; I'm not sure what ship to use, for them to dock in and operate out of. Obviously they'll have a ship of their own, but I was thinking of having a corvette-/frigate-sized ship (like a CR90 for example) to use, although it'll of course require a small hanger for their ship to dock in, for mission briefings and to rearm, etc. between missions and the like.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:59
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As far as dice go, you're going to be sharing and passing around dice no matter how many packs you get, so I guess it just really depends on your tolerance for that. Heck, even with two sets of dice (beginner's box plus dice pack) we still don't actually have enough of the yellows to cover one of my monster 5 Brawn/5 Rank Brawl checks without rolling one of them twice, so maybe you'll want to get a minimum of three sets to really cover all the bases! For a frigate, if you really like the R90 there is precedent in the expanded universe for one of those to be fitted with an expanded cargo bay that's juuust big enough that you could fit a small freighter or a couple of fighters into; I had one in my game recently just because it was one of the few ships of that size that I found a cool deck plan already premade. Otherwise if you're looking for something iconic you can't really go wrong with a Nebulon B Frigate or one of those Mon Cal cruisers. Or maybe something weird like an old salvaged clone wars era ship, or half a Star Destroyer. You probably won't even really need stats for it right away, just eventually when the players decide they want to try taking it for a spin. Because of course they will.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:14
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Major Isoor posted:Also, while I'm in here, I'm thinking about GMing my first game with a small group (just myself and three others - our main group is larger, but us four are the only ones who are consistently able to turn up) I've been playing various P&P RPGs with over the last few years, however I'm not sure what kind of equipment I'll need to buy. I mean, I've played EotE/AoR/etc. with some other friends a while back with their gear so I know I need to get the special dice for it, however is it like X-Wing where you'll really want to have at least twice the amount of dice that they sell per pack (or in a 'starter kit' if applicable), or can you easily make do with however many an individual pack contains? Same goes for any other gear (not necessarily specific to EotE itself, but can also include other stuff like notepads or what-have-you), since I really am new to GMing, so I want to make sure I've got my bases covered. As far as other things, you don't really need much. I would bring at least a notebook to write notes on and help you remember what happened from session to session. You could play the whole game with verbal description only, however, having something drawn out is a lot easier to visualize when combat ensues and players are trying to think tactically. I would bring something to draw on. Our gm uses a small dry erase board but your notebook would also work. Consider tokens of some kind of 2 colors (one color for PCs and their allies, the other color for enemies). Use some to keep track of initiative and others to represent character positioning on your hand drawn maps. Other than that, just be prepared with standard RPG preparedness (maybe some index cards of NPCs you're using or whatever).
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Mar 2, 2016 03:34
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The beginner's box is a pretty good value in general, you get a set of dice, a small premade adventure, and a whole pile of little tokens for destiny points, pc's and enemies. Even if you don't specifically use a map all the time, having some little markers just to represent relative positioning can be pretty nice. Because I'm an Old, I personally use little Star Wars Micro Machine figures and vehicles. I usually use a whiteboard to sketch up quick maps, and it lets me encourage the players to add in their own details or terrain quirks when setting up the scene or as a result of Advantage and Triumph. Seconding index cards as something that has been coming in handy for me lately, I've taken to writing down the more interesting items and equipment the players find in their travels with the stats on one side and a brief description and some flavor text or a sketch on the other and handing those out, along with little dossier cards for recurring NPC's. They seem to remember that they have those items a lot more readily than when it's just written on their character sheet.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:56
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Major Isoor posted:
You can always use the Corvette Command Ship from Rebels:  Doesn't really have any extra firepower but has a big crew compartment and hanger for small one man fighters. Its pretty fragile and has a long history of getting blown up but good for the kind of ship that hides out somewhere to wait for a guerilla run to finish before picking people up and running.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:15
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Thanks for the info, guys! I wasn't aware the Nebulon B had a hanger - I'll have to look into it and the CCS mentioned by kingcom a bit further, to see which one will suit what I have planned for the group best. And yeah, I think I might have to get the beginner kit plus one or two dice packs, as you say. I actually hadn't even thought about using a whiteboard though, so I may need to get one to draw maps on, as you say!
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Mar 2, 2016 05:46
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I went all out and got six or seven sets of die. Since this isn't a game that lives and dies by a gridded map in the center table, we keep our pile of dice there, and people can just grab what they need when they need it. People end up holding onto a pool for an action they do frequently but there's always plenty to go around.
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Mar 2, 2016 05:52
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kingcom posted:You can always use the Corvette Command Ship from Rebels: If you're not using the FarStar you're doing it wrong: 
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Mar 2, 2016 06:13
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Eh, a Correllian Corvette is all you need. You can modify it to fit like 12 X-wings, and then strap a couple extra Ties on the sides for good measure. Or, for even more of a low profile, get a bulk freighter like the Action IV and put a hanger in it.
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Mar 2, 2016 06:32
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New Roll20 game recruitment thread up if anyone's interested: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3766545
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Mar 2, 2016 10:14
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I've been considering giving this game a try with my group. I love the Star Wars universe (more than the movies themselves actually) and I think the structured "talent tree" system that I understand it can be pretty interesting to my players, since a couple of them like involved character progression and lots of options... am I right thinking this game supports that kind of play? Also, what would you guys say this game does right and wrong? Is there any plan to release an old republic sourcebook? I feel like setting the game in the rebellion era isn't the most interesting option.
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Mar 2, 2016 12:55
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Hugoon Chavez posted:I've been considering giving this game a try with my group. The game is much more freeform than, say, games like D&D or Pathfinder. The penalties for having multiple specializations on your character are honestly not debilitating, and you aren't required to fill in your career's skill tree completely. What I think the game does right: narrative/cinematic feel. It captures that seat-of-your-pants, sci-fi/western feel of Star Wars very well, and the Advantage/Triumph system opens up a lot of paths for really ingenious/hilarious roleplaying, further contributing to the Hollywood feel of it. What I think the game does wrong: nothing really. Space combat isn't really "wrong", it's just not really "good". And as far as I know there are no plans to release any sourcebooks for anything outside the original trilogy (or, at least, outside of OT + New Trilogy). They have included some limited content from Rebels, but that sorta belongs to the OT time period anyway. An Old Republic-era sourcebook would be cool, but I don't really see it happening.
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Mar 2, 2016 14:08
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Also, what would you guys say this game does right and wrong? It's a hit!: There is a core "career" that represents your character. He or she or it may dabble in any number of other things, even invest the majority of their energy elsewhere, but there is still an unchanging center; it is from this core that you get your Signature Abilities. It's a hit!: It's always possible to have the Force turn out to be with you against terrible odds, and it's always possible for something ordinary to really not go well. Very Star Wars. It's a hit!: Rate and sheer variety of advancement. It's a hit!: Edge of the Empire in general. Great setting/take on Star Wars. It's a hit!: In general, I think the supplements are Quite Good, but I am biased. Every Edge of the Empire career sourcebook made me want to run campaigns for that and create characters in that career. I really enjoyed the Jewel of Yavin and Mask of the Pirate Queen adventures. Negative, it didn't go in: The game is descended from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying 3rd edition, though, and carries over a lethality that I don't think matches Star Wars as we know it from the movies. Negative, it didn't go in: Space combat. Use sparingly and only when something else other than the fighting is also happening. Negative, it didn't go in: As lethal as the game is at low levels, at very high levels the PCs will have ridiculous Soak, Wounds, and Strain, and so it becomes very hard to challenge them. This is lots of RPGs, of course, so . . . yeah. Negative, it didn't go in: Some of the Force powers are much better than the others. As for plans for an Old Republic sourcebook or an Imperial sourcebook, in my limited experience, FFG only announces products that are pretty close to done, rather than things they hope to make, plan to make, or are in the process of developing. Your best bet is to check the site regularly for news and previews.
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Mar 2, 2016 15:35
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A shame about space combat, but everything else sounds interesting enough to give it a try, I think. I'll probably try to hunt down a beginner's box in English, I'm guessing it's a good introduction to the game still. Thanks goons!
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Mar 2, 2016 16:05
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It also says something about the quality of the game (or maybe just supply-chain issues) that the game generally has a hard time staying in stock, especially the beginner boxes.
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Mar 2, 2016 17:16
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^^^ As an X-Wing player, FF has some very slow supply lines. If there's a Fantasy Flight product you're interested in, you might as well buy it the moment it's on the shelf because it could be months before reprints come in. Hugoon Chavez posted:Also, what would you guys say this game does right and wrong? It can take some time to get used to the mechanics if your group (like mine) are D&D veterans. Dice rolls have more to interpret which is great for storytelling opportunities but it can be much more complex to try to figure out what a failed roll with advantage looks like if you're used to just rolling pass/fail. While ground combat is pretty straightforward, space combat is inelegant. There are a ton of community created tools to keep it organized. Highly recommended to use OggDude's Character creation tool (this also has tools to roll up enemy characters and ships easily) to get the party created. There are a lot of story things to keep track of with each character's motivation This definitely feels like a game where ranged combat is the best approach due to the general deadliness of combat. My one melee player hasn't had much success at all in trying to run up and stab people instead of blasting from behind cover. My group loved the Edge of the Empire beginner adventure, but the downloadable continuation to that wasn't a lot of fun. The dialog in some of the pre-made adventures can be a bit clunky. These are good mechanical guides to how you can run a session. All in all it's been a lot of fun to play and learn the game. There's a lot of good splatbooks and material online to add more to the universe and it wholeheartedly embraces the EU. If you're looking for an Old Republic experience, I think the Force and Destiny books could fill that role. The nice thing about the Star Wars universe is that the technology and character archetypes haven't really changed all that much between the Rebellion era and the time of the Jedi.
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Mar 2, 2016 17:49
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:This definitely feels like a game where ranged combat is the best approach due to the general deadliness of combat. My one melee player hasn't had much success at all in trying to run up and stab people instead of blasting from behind cover. With that being said, playing a melee Wookiee in the middle of a battle royale is ridiculously more fun than sitting behind cover and taking shots from a distance. nelson fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 18:28
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:If you're looking for an Old Republic experience, I think the Force and Destiny books could fill that role. The nice thing about the Star Wars universe is that the technology and character archetypes haven't really changed all that much between the Rebellion era and the time of the Jedi. About the only technological difference that I can really think of off the top of my head is that vibroblades are slightly more commonplace/viable than ranged weapons. Aside from that, there's really nothing stopping someone from reskinning a Stormtrooper as a Sith Empire Trooper or whatever.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:32
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