|
fishmech posted:Look the fact is you keep moaning about how the base isn't being supported, despite the fact that the base is very supported. When's that going to get through your head? How are they supported? Do they actually see abortion rights expanded. Do they see action to protect voting rights? Do they see actions to reduce wealth inequality? The only thing they've seen is gay marriage which was largely through the actions of independent organizations. Likewise who makes changes on the wage gap? Once again largley independent organizations.
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:How are they supported? Do they actually see abortion rights expanded. Do they see action to protect voting rights? Do they see actions to reduce wealth inequality? The only thing they've seen is gay marriage which was largely through the actions of independent organizations. Likewise who makes changes on the wage gap? Once again largley independent organizations. Most people don't differentiate. Especially when there's clear and obvious reasons why bills aren't being passed. computer parts fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:How are they supported? Do they actually see abortion rights expanded. Do they see action to protect voting rights? Do they see actions to reduce wealth inequality? The only thing they've seen is gay marriage which was largely through the actions of independent organizations. Likewise who makes changes on the wage gap? Once again largley independent organizations. I'm not one to agree with fishmech, but can you name me a time in history when anything moved quickly in national politics? Bear in mind that every civil rights movement was preceded by decades of concerted effort.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Boon posted:Can you name me a time in history when anything moved quickly in national politics? Bear in mind that every civil rights movement was preceded by decades of concerted effort. TARP
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
Boon posted:I'm not one to agree with fishmech, but can you name me a time in history when anything moved quickly in national politics? Bear in mind that every civil rights movement was preceded by decades of concerted effort. USA PATRIOT Act
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
Allow me to clarify; systematic changes on the level that crowsbeak is talking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
site posted:USA PATRIOT Act Which is why some dumb people believe in Accelerationism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:55
|
|
|
I don't know why but there's been a big push to defend "IN GOD WE TRUST" being plastered all over everywhere like it wasn't just the unconstitutional muscle of the propaganda arm of McCarthyism or something Now I get all mad because E Pluribus Unum is a great loving motto and now nobody uses it and also what about those of us who praise the dark one?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
Boon posted:Allow me to clarify; systematic changes on the level that crowsbeak is talking. I think USA PATRIOT Act would almost count even then, except for the fact that provisions of that bill like expanded wiretap abilities, secret evidence, and indefinite detention date back to attempts to pass such a bill in 1995, The Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:02
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:How are they supported? Do they actually see abortion rights expanded. Do they see action to protect voting rights? Do they see actions to reduce wealth inequality? The only thing they've seen is gay marriage which was largely through the actions of independent organizations. Likewise who makes changes on the wage gap? Once again largley independent organizations. Yes all that stuff happens when possible. Sorry it's not magical dictator speed happening like the ignorant think is possible, but you might have noticed that that is impossible. Not like your maple savior would be able to do that either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:02
|
|
|
computer parts posted:So? Ron Paul speaks out against bills, fights to soften them, and then votes against them anyway. A Sanders/Paul Unity ticket would be a beautiful thing. But like George McGovern wearing a Grateful Dead tee and drinking a six pack on the beach it is an idea stillborn into this world.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:Catching up with this thread so this is late but WRT how black delegates were treated and one being set on fire  Source is The Loneliness of the Black Republican By Leah Wright Rigueur On Ike's niece being molested quote:In a hitherto undisclosed incident, Eisenhower said his own niece had been "molested" on the floor of the 1964 convention in San Franscisco's Cow Palace. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2002&dat=19650629&id=QPouAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mNsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1003,5733818&hl=en
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
Boon posted:I'm not one to agree with fishmech, but can you name me a time in history when anything moved quickly in national politics? Bear in mind that every civil rights movement was preceded by decades of concerted effort. Powell memo to Reagan was pretty fast, but then they were moving from a position of power to destroy and rollback other gains, rather than having to build a power base to enact change.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
It takes John Oliver for me to dread Trump even more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:21
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/704477860875083776
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:It takes John Oliver for me to dread Drumpf even more. Don't worry, I got ya covered on this one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:It takes John Oliver for me to dread Trump even more. I'm the trotskyist in the comment section with 200 upvotes arguing with the fascist with 200 upvotes
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:I'm the trotskyist in the comment section with 200 upvotes arguing with the fascist with 200 upvotes 164k upvotes vs 7k downvotes. I believe the people have spoken. Seriously, this is what a late night comedian came up with in probably just a couple days and it's caused a huge internet sensation. Can you imagine all the poo poo that the DNC and Hillary are going to have on Trump when the time comes? Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:42
|
|
|
What's troubling is some of that, like "kill the families of Jihadists," are the sort of things his base eats up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 02:57
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:What's troubling is some of that, like "kill the families of Jihadists," are the sort of things his base eats up. It still makes for some really bad optics. And that's not even what I'm thinking about. The Dems can bring up so much stuff about how Trump has failed in so many different business ventures, how middle class Americans paid the price for a ton of them, and how Trump is in fact a capital L Loser.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:01
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:It still makes for some really bad optics. If the man can bankrupt a casino, imagine what he can do to a country.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:What's troubling is some of that, like "kill the families of Jihadists," are the sort of things his base eats up. Yeah, but honestly how many americans are actually ok with a commander and chief that is blatantly in favor of committing war crimes? And I mean blatantly as in fully in favor of them, not like W where he just let Cheney handle the "wet work" stuff while he kicked back at his ranch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:15
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:Yeah, but honestly how many americans are actually ok with a commander and chief that is blatantly in favor of committing war crimes? And I mean blatantly as in fully in favor of them, not like W where he just let Cheney handle the "wet work" stuff while he kicked back at his ranch. More than is comfortable but not as many as they themselves think.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:16
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:Yeah, but honestly how many americans are actually ok with a commander and chief that is blatantly in favor of committing war crimes? And I mean blatantly as in fully in favor of them, not like W where he just let Cheney handle the "wet work" stuff while he kicked back at his ranch. As long as the president secures an existence for their people and a future for their children, it probably doesn't matter to a lot of whiteys.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:23
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:Yeah, but honestly how many americans are actually ok with a commander and chief that is blatantly in favor of committing war crimes? And I mean blatantly as in fully in favor of them, not like W where he just let Cheney handle the "wet work" stuff while he kicked back at his ranch. Plenty, as long as the brutal truth isn't on full display for them on a nightly basis. Think, how many were OK with the truth of Vietnam before TV God Walter Cronkite put it on full display.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:23
|
|
|
Boon posted:I'm not one to agree with fishmech, but can you name me a time in history when anything moved quickly in national politics? Bear in mind that every civil rights movement was preceded by decades of concerted effort. Can you name me any that were made with the help of incompetent fuckups who consistently lost elections, and couldn't take orders at the helm? Also Fischmech please tell us why a party should keep a incompetent fuckup and co around when they lose elections as head of their party. I know you are all wise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
Yeah, people are probably okay with "kill the families of terrorists!" in the abstract. What they wouldn't be okay with is seeing video of a bombed out house with women and children's corpses strewn about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Sure, 2006 and 2008 make Dean and Kaine(? I think he was the chair at that time but it may have still been Dean) look really good due to the late-term hatred for Bush and the 2008 Obama coattails, but the 50-state strategy really capitalized on the ability of the executive's popularity (or unpopularity re: Bush) to drive results at the polls. It also stretched the GOP thin as hell moneywise and ended up with pickups that were kind of improbable (Tester for example) because the GOP kept playing the "key seats" game while the Dems fielded people everywhere. That meant that the massive money flowing into a handful of seats meant a hell of a lot less because for every Missouri or North Carolina spot the GOP snatched up, the Dems grabbed seats in places like Montana and the Dakotas and whatnot where the GOP thought they were safe as hell. It resulted in some blue dogs, sure, but the end result was reliable majorities with a crunch time supermajority on occasion. The GOP has the outside money advantage, playing their shortlist game is loving dumb and it's a good part of why things hit so hard in 2010/12/14. The only thing that didn't make those years worse was that the GOP posted up some absolute nutjobs who scared the poo poo out of the electorate and saw the Dem win in the general. "They're just too crazy" is a bad strategy to rely on. Use it to your advantage while it's there but it sure as hell isn't going to last forever and you're basically ceding your destiny over to the hope that the other party just keeps loving up. I still don't understand how the 'Dean scream' sunk Howard Dean. It was a goofy scream and the microphone was accidentally set too loud, so what? A lot of other people have resisted far worse gaffes, why was that enough to ruin him politically? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:Can you name me any that were made with the help of incompetent fuckups who consistently lost elections, and couldn't take orders at the helm? So you mean like Howard Dean? Indeed, why should the Democrats keep you around? And again, why are you so down on Howard Dean?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
Kill the families sounds like a perfect recipe for 9-11 2025 or something. Juuuuust enough time for the hate to simmer and the chickens to come home to the roost.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:31
|
|
|
Litany Unheard posted:Yeah, people are probably okay with "kill the families of terrorists!" in the abstract. What they wouldn't be okay with is seeing video of a bombed out house with women and children's corpses strewn about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
fishmech posted:So you mean like Howard Dean? 2006, 2008. Were rather successful. Unlike your hero DWS in 2014. So explain to us why we need to keep her and her company Nintendo Kid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
Your Dunkle Sans posted:I still don't understand how the 'Dean scream' sunk Howard Dean. It was a goofy scream and the microphone was accidentally set too loud, so what? A lot of other people have resisted far worse gaffes, why was that enough to ruin him politically? If I recall correctly, it was a combination of the loss after which that speech was given, and the dorky-rear end scream at the end of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:38
|
|
|
Dont forget to harass family in friends in Super Tuesday states to GOTV. I Forgot that I had a whole contingent of people in MA to hit on the noggin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:39
|
|
|
Isn't Howard Dean a lobbyist for medical insurance now?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:2006, 2008. Were rather successful. Unlike your hero DWS in 2014. So explain to us why we need to keep her and her company Nintendo Kid. Howard Dean got a bunch of piece of poo poo blue dogs elected who held platforms only barely different from the Republicans. Because of them, we got the ACA rather than a public option, and they also held no appeal versus the tea party when 2010 et al came around. He was a terrible leader! In fact without him, the Tea Party wave probably wouldn't have been as bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
It sounds like the real crux of the issue is that the Democratic party itself just kinda sucks 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
Thump! posted:It sounds like the real crux of the issue is that the Democratic party itself just kinda sucks Lol if you were hoping for an argument on that
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:If I recall correctly, it was a combination of the loss after which that speech was given, and the dorky-rear end scream at the end of it. Watch the video of the scream. Now watch it for 24 hours straight, because that was the only thing the news networks played for days on end. Samurai Sanders posted:The trick to being a good human is to be able to have sympathy for people without needing to see video or whatever of them suffering and dying first. Yeah, but we're talking about Americans here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
Your Dunkle Sans posted:I still don't understand how the 'Dean scream' sunk Howard Dean. It was a goofy scream and the microphone was accidentally set too loud, so what? A lot of other people have resisted far worse gaffes, why was that enough to ruin him politically? Dean needed to win big in Iowa to meet expectations - that he didn't, combined with some missteps in the campaigning prior to that primary that ate away at his image of a non-traditional politician and non-traditional campaign, sank him. The Dean Scream is just a convenient point of inflection. To make a clumsy analogy, the Empire of Japan was always going to lose to the United States in WW2 over a number of structural, doctrinal, economic, political, industrial, and technological factors, but we still look at the Battle of Midway as a decisive, pivotal battle that turned the tide because it's much simpler to process that way. Also, I've heard that while the Dean Scream isn't all that bad in the vacuum of a single play of a youtube video, it was different if you were there at the time and heard it every 5 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2016 03:53
|
|
