League of Legends S6: Time + Money - Items = Game!

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rabidsquid: Oct 11, 2004; LOVES THE KOG

Help thread I can't decide between buying Lucian and Draven

# ? Mar 1, 2016 05:40

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# ? May 13, 2024 22:25

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

Lucian is waaaaaaay better right now. Also less finicky to learn imo

# ? Mar 1, 2016 05:43

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

I watched the Naut loss and tried to record commentary, but my mic was off the whole time :|

You're in bronze because you don't understand the basics of how bot lane works.

hit level two first
kill them
you've won the lane, that's it

So the way to play a melee support at level one is very clear-cut. You use a charge on the first minion, then back off the wave. You go up to the second wave (melees), and auto them constantly until they're all dead. As the last one dies, you move up to the opponents and throw out your engage the split-second you hit 2. Instead, here's what you did:

use charges on first wave (I think?)
stand around taking Cait autos and Malph Q's
run away from them because you're at half HP even while chugging pots
hit level two after them
lose an all-in because you had half their combined HP

And the lane is basically over from there. There were other mistakes, but for now, the step-one-subsection-one of being a decent support is achieving and winning the level two all-in.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 05:43

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

rabidsquid posted:

Help thread I can't decide between buying Lucian and Draven

Lucian

# ? Mar 1, 2016 05:44

Yorkshire Pudding: Nov 24, 2006

Talk all the poo poo you want on Mister Yi, he's still one of the best junglers in the game.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 05:52

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

Ok so I'm apperntly a retard because I always use my first 2 shield charges as melee support on the first wave.

Why do you use one then back off? I'm sure you recover one in time to use it on the cannon on wave 3.

Is it because it causes you to push the wave and make the level 2 all in harder?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:06

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

Gridlocked posted:

Ok so I'm apperntly a retard because I always use my first 2 shield charges as melee support on the first wave.

Why do you use one then back off? I'm sure you recover one in time to use it on the cannon on wave 3.

Is it because it causes you to push the wave and make the level 2 all in harder?

The reason you use the first one immediately is so that it recharges for the cannon.

The reason you save it for the second wave is exactly what you said, it speeds up the push for level 2 by a few autoattacks worth of time.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:07

Stefan Prodan: Jan 7, 2002; I deeply respect you as a human being... Some day I'm gonna make you *Mrs* Buck Turgidson!; Grimey Drawer

You don't want the wave to push TOO hard, like if Caitlyn runs up and does her thing on the wave she can guarantee a level 2 first but your opponents will basically be under the tower at that point and it won't mean anything other than that you won't die. If you save your charges you can kill the wave in such a way that the wave is still towards the middle and then now you push it hard instead of pushing the first wave

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:12

Coca Koala: Nov 28, 2005; ongoing nowhere; College Slice

foutre posted:

Also, Eye of the Equinox is pretty much always better than FotM, so you should have 4 wards! And that gives you an extra slot for pinks late.

Yo, for real?

I've still been going for FQC when I get the blue item, because having ghosts to do stuff like scout the jungle or dragon or baron when I don't have vision of the area is super useful, even if the CD and ghost slowdown got nerfed a bit. But I've never been sure whether the actives on the fully upgraded shield/coin are worth the inventory slots on supports like Braum and Soraka.

What are the situations where FotM is better than Eye? Is the fully upgraded coin (orb of ascension or whatever?) worth it for the quick movespeed buff, or should I be going for eye on that one too?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:31

Libertine: Jun 21, 2004; When I die, I hope they say I made the eSports industry a better place than I made millions of dollars.

I've been using the Sightstone/Item hybrid pairs more often lately because aside from the shield one, you can combine CDR and combat stats into what previously was only a ball of HP and upgrading it early gives you more wards.

I like that flexibility for my later item paths and I like having the extra wards early. I can tell sometimes it is greedy though and I've definitely thought more than once that lacking the active had hurt me in a fight.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:36

Voxx: Jul 28, 2009; I'll give 'em a hold
and a break to breathe
And if they can't play nice
I won't play with 'em at all

Lady Naga posted:

Holy poo poo there are so many Yis at this ELO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZ1OZvjnm8

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:44

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

I very rarely build Eye over FotM on my SupportoNauto because against full AD teams (that still do appear in Silver/Normals fairly often) I sometimes skip Locket for more armour/Thornmail and I like having at least one active with effective HP on it for my ADC/dives.

I am starting to wonder if this is correct though and prehaps I should be building Locket all the time even if there is 0 AP outside of the support on the opposing team; which makes me think Eye's extra ward and the extra item slot for late game are better.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:44

Firebert: Aug 16, 2004

Very rarely would you go aegis vs. 4 AD. Exception would be if they had Corki (obv), Ezreal, Shyvana, Gangplank, Kogmaw, and maaaybe a couple others.

E: Jax and Aatrox if they are actually teamfighting

Firebert fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Mar 1, 2016

# ? Mar 1, 2016 06:54

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

Firebert posted:

Very rarely would you go aegis vs. 4 AD. Exception would be if they had Corki (obv), Ezreal, Shyvana, Gangplank, Kogmaw, and maaaybe a couple others.

Hybrid guys yeah. I mean if there is a Shyvana/Ez/Corki then I will build the Locket every time because its going to tank some of the damage even if the rest of their team is AD, plus I get the effective Health active.

I'm more lost on when its a better idea to grab Eye over Face.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 07:01

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

I'm just gonna keep playing Garen I think because apparently nobody knows how to deal with a competent toplaner in Normals.

I'm very much dreading the day they stick me against people that know their poo poo because I'll get horribly crushed and the game's a lot more fun when I'm killing Teemo/Garen lanes and getting yelled at for roaming.

Lady Naga fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Mar 1, 2016

# ? Mar 1, 2016 07:01

Arrgytehpirate: Oct 2, 2011; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

kingcobweb posted:

I watched the Naut loss and tried to record commentary, but my mic was off the whole time :|

You're in bronze because you don't understand the basics of how bot lane works.

hit level two first

kill them

you've won the lane, that's it

So the way to play a melee support at level one is very clear-cut. You use a charge on the first minion, then back off the wave. You go up to the second wave (melees), and auto them constantly until they're all dead. As the last one dies, you move up to the opponents and throw out your engage the split-second you hit 2. Instead, here's what you did:

use charges on first wave (I think?)

stand around taking Cait autos and Malph Q's

run away from them because you're at half HP even while chugging pots

hit level two after them

lose an all-in because you had half their combined HP
And the lane is basically over from there. There were other mistakes, but for now, the step-one-subsection-one of being a decent support is achieving and winning the level two all-in.

Thanks for the notes. I'll try to handle the early waves better.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 07:24

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

Radiantweasel posted:

Are people still buying frost queen's on AP mids like Morgana and Lux? And if so when/how do you fit it into builds?

KicksYouInHalf posted:

I build it on morg in high silver/low gold. It's the first item I complete then I go into sorc boots and zhonya's. It makes catching people stupid easy but the downside is you aren't nearly as durable pre-zhonya's as you would be with RoA. Fitting it into the build is just a matter of not getting RoA period.

I've tried it on lux and it feels alright but getting a 20% CDR item feels better to me.

But I'm bad so

A Saucy Bratwurst posted:

I played morg mid for the first time last night, vs a heimer I had like 9cs a minute at the end of laning, and ended with an 80 cs lead on the next closest person. When we killed their nexus, I had 6600 gold in my inventory with only half a build and was 1 shotting their mf with just q and w. Morg mid loving owns.

Also, that loving q damage

Yeah I like FCQ -> CDR boots -> RoA -> Abyssal (run 15% scaling CDR in runes) against AP midlaners on Morgana (get the negatron cloak after FCQ if necessary). I made a long post about this recently but all those items have insane gold efficiency. Morgana is still mostly freelo in mid.

I think FCQ is still a good buy on Lux but most people prefer the Luden's burst and MS over RoA.

How Rude posted:

nah it's very viable to rush the frost queen and immediately get RoA after. Morg's mana costs are huge so the extra huge mana pool is actually very nice with the minimal regen on frost queen and it works because all the extra gold you generate on first back from buying frostfang and proccing it with W on the enemy laner before clearing the wave makes it so you don't miss a whole lot of stacks.

I actually don't have that many mana problems with Morgana. I usually farm aggressively until 850g (usually running pretty low on mana near the end of that), TP back into lane with Frostfang, and then can stay in lane forever as long as I don't go too crazy with spells and my jungler gives me blues #2 and #3. Once you get RoA (even Catalyst, really) you can basically cast Q on cooldown for the rest of the game, which is pretty underrated given that getting hit by mid Morgana Q means death most of the time.

Her mana situation is also not awful if you're only putting 3 points in W (100 mana). With Doran's and FCQ you have around 37.5 MP5, so you're getting around 225 mana regenerated per wave. Last hitting all the minions means that you get another 24 mana from the Doran's passive. So you can spend about 250 mana per wave (2 Ws and a Q) and still break even, 175-200 with just Frostfang.

blah_blah fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Mar 1, 2016

# ? Mar 1, 2016 07:58

How Rude: Aug 13, 2012; FUCK THIS SHIT

blah_blah posted:

I actually don't have that many mana problems with Morgana. I usually farm aggressively until 850g (usually running pretty low on mana near the end of that), TP back into lane with Frostfang, and then can stay in lane forever as long as I don't go too crazy with spells and my jungler gives me blues #2 and #3. Once you get RoA (even Catalyst, really) you can basically cast Q on cooldown for the rest of the game, which is pretty underrated given that getting hit by mid Morgana Q means death most of the time.

oh yeah, i just meant that once you finish the RoA you can spam a lot of bindings and pools midgame when it really matters that you catch people out and shove waves quickly.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 08:01

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

How Rude posted:

oh yeah, i just meant that once you finish the RoA you can spam a lot of bindings and pools midgame when it really matters that you catch people out and shove waves quickly.

Building Zhonyas 2nd just never clicked with me for basically this reason.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 08:05

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

Two games in a row I had someone claim top before me and there's this guy who keeps trying to jungle kog'maw in broken english, I'm tilting pretty hard r/n.

League of Legends: GOT A MAMA BOOTH

# ? Mar 1, 2016 08:14

rabidsquid: Oct 11, 2004; LOVES THE KOG

Do you not own enough champs to play draft

# ? Mar 1, 2016 08:28

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

rabidsquid posted:

Do you not own enough champs to play draft

I'm level 17 and I tried waiting in Normal draft queue for like ten minutes multiple times before deciding that Blind was a better use of my time.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 08:35

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

rabidsquid posted:

Do you not own enough champs to play draft

Try playing on OCE.

Apparently we aren't important enough to have Draft outside of ranked

# ? Mar 1, 2016 09:04

NovemberMike: Dec 28, 2008

Tequila Sunrise posted:

Talk all the poo poo you want on Mister Yi, he's still one of the best junglers in the game.

Yeah, IIRC he's actually pretty good at low Elo. I'd have to check the stats to be sure. The problem is that people tend to go pure damage on him but he's got a really strong game if you go devourer > rageblade > tank (dead man's plate is good).

# ? Mar 1, 2016 09:15

KicksYouInHalf: Aug 6, 2007; National tragedy.

How Rude posted:

nah it's very viable to rush the frost queen and immediately get RoA after. Morg's mana costs are huge so the extra huge mana pool is actually very nice with the minimal regen on frost queen and it works because all the extra gold you generate on first back from buying frostfang and proccing it with W on the enemy laner before clearing the wave makes it so you don't miss a whole lot of stacks.

I just feel like I'm not doing enough damage if I do both frost queen and then into roa and additionally feel like the flash ults are super risky with just a roa at midgame. I haven't had any mama issues whatsoever either.

Idk I'm not a morg main or anything, she's just stupid easy to play and stupid good .

# ? Mar 1, 2016 09:39

Hashtag Yoloswag: Mar 24, 2013; ...I'm sorry. I can't seem to remember any of the rest.

yeah tbh fqc into roa feels like poo poo and gives up a lot of early pressure you could have by just rushing morello

# ? Mar 1, 2016 09:59

fatal oopsie-daisy: Jul 30, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Lady Naga posted:

I'm level 17 and I tried waiting in Normal draft queue for like ten minutes multiple times before deciding that Blind was a better use of my time.

I'm tellin' again ya man, it's like 10 bucks on eBay to get a level 30 account. It's worth it.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 10:19

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

AHH FUGH posted:

I'm tellin' again ya man, it's like 10 bucks on eBay to get a level 30 account. It's worth it.

Do you wanna pay my debts?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 10:19

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

Lady Naga posted:

Do you wanna pay my debts?

Just straighten out those parentheses into absolute value

# ? Mar 1, 2016 10:28

fatal oopsie-daisy: Jul 30, 2007; by R. Guyovich

You don't have like 20 bucks in change laying around that you can gather up and go to the store and get an eBay gift card? drat son how do you even eat

# ? Mar 1, 2016 10:38

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

kingcobweb posted:

Just straighten out those parentheses into absolute value

The absolute value of 147 is still 147 man.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 10:53

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

AHH FUGH posted:

You don't have like 20 bucks in change laying around that you can gather up and go to the store and get an eBay gift card? drat son how do you even eat

I mean I have money I just use it on things that are more important than videogames. Once I pay the bank back y'know it's all gravy.

Holy poo poo Japanese Nautilus is crazy.

Lady Naga fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Mar 1, 2016

# ? Mar 1, 2016 11:04

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

KicksYouInHalf posted:

I just feel like I'm not doing enough damage if I do both frost queen and then into roa and additionally feel like the flash ults are super risky with just a roa at midgame. I haven't had any mama issues whatsoever either.

Idk I'm not a morg main or anything, she's just stupid easy to play and stupid good .

Hashtag Yoloswag posted:

yeah tbh fqc into roa feels like poo poo and gives up a lot of early pressure you could have by just rushing morello

There's some degree of personal preference, but FWIW I've played ~100 games of Morgana mid with like a 70% winrate since the end of S5 and have tried basically every combination of FCQ/Athene's/Morello into RoA/Liandry's/Luden's/Zhonya's/Abyssal at some point. FCQ is so much better than Athene's/Morello that it isn't even funny, and while the RoA is a little bit more debatable it definitely provides much better stats for less money than any of the other items, if you can deal with the small midgame trough (and even so, Morgana's full combo has like a 400% AP ratio. If you land every part of it you can still kill the other laner, FCQ and RoA or not). I definitely have found it to be much stronger than any of the other builds I have tried.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 11:35

Hashtag Yoloswag: Mar 24, 2013; ...I'm sorry. I can't seem to remember any of the rest.

i personally have much better success rushing morello into zhonya (the extra AP and CDR are really nice) so it might just be a playstyle thing

# ? Mar 1, 2016 13:04

The Missing Link: Aug 13, 2008; Should do fine against cats.

RoA is a bad idea on Morgana. You really want that golden idol to get your ult off. FQC into Zhonya's is the best. Morellos is acceptable though.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 13:36

underage at the vape shop: May 11, 2011; by Cyrano4747

Roa is a really really good item especially the catalyst part, are you kidding me?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 13:37

The Missing Link: Aug 13, 2008; Should do fine against cats.

ROA is a good item. I'd rather have something else on morgana though. I'll give it a shot the next time I play her mid.

I guess I just think Zhonya's is all the defense I need to get in there and finish my ult.

# ? Mar 1, 2016 14:04

Sexpansion: Mar 22, 2003; DELETED

Bronze is amazing. I actually am really enjoying it, it's relaxing, even when I lose because when I lose, there was often almost no way for me to win.

Also, why is anyone still playing Illaoi?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 14:06

Bholder: Feb 26, 2013

Sexpansion posted:

Bronze is amazing. I actually am really enjoying it, it's relaxing, even when I lose because when I lose, there was often almost no way for me to win.

Also, why is anyone still playing Illaoi?

How is that relaxing rather than depressing?

# ? Mar 1, 2016 14:08

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# ? May 13, 2024 22:25

Lady Naga: Apr 25, 2008; Voyons Donc!

Aw is Illaoi bad? I played against her and while I had no idea what her kit did and she got stomped all over she seemed kinda fun :smith:

# ? Mar 1, 2016 14:12

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