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To be fair, Starcraft is a 40K ripoff but I think the bigger issue is that he is blatantly copying the design but he's honestly using their IP to market his knockoff. I'm pretty sure that if you say something is "based on" something else that means you need to give them money. Like if I say I'm making a movie based on a book, I would most certainly need the author's permission or I could get sued for copyright infringement. I think he might technically be ok if he made the designs less obvious and said it was "inspired by" Starcraft and so forth.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:31
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I should have added "I really want this game to be good now so I can see the legal clusterfuck it may or may not generate" 
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Mar 1, 2016 18:22
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PaybackJack posted:To be fair, Starcraft is a 40K ripoff but I think the bigger issue is that he is blatantly copying the design but he's honestly using their IP to market his knockoff. I'm pretty sure that if you say something is "based on" something else that means you need to give them money. Like if I say I'm making a movie based on a book, I would most certainly need the author's permission or I could get sued for copyright infringement. I think he might technically be ok if he made the designs less obvious and said it was "inspired by" Starcraft and so forth. Starcraft is a 40k ripoff in the "similar but legally distinct" variety. Codex is a starcraft ripoff in the "you directly copied everything and this isn't legal at all" variety. Big difference. Starcraft's marines look significantly different from 40k marines, the Eldar are now called Protoss, the Tyranids are called Zerg, and all look a bit different even if the themes are the same. Codex has a literal Reaver called a Reaver that looks like a Reaver.
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Mar 1, 2016 18:27
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Zephro posted:Does Codex actually have a theme or is it just a mish-mash of (pop) culture references? The theme is "lighthearted vaguely fantasy real time strategy". Having a bunch of Starcraft and Warcraft III references is sort of the point, I think - and it's clear from flavor text and the like that these are references. Starcraft is a giant ripoff of Warhammer 40k. For that matter, Warcraft is a giant ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy. Both of those universes have grown a lot less so over time, but in my book that type of aesthetic ripoff is actually worse because it's not clearly a reference, whereas when you have a unit that looks like a Starcraft unit and has flavor text that refers to Starcraft nobody in the know is going to think that that's an original idea you 100% had yoursellf - it's overtly a reference/inside joke. I don't think anyone will look at Codex and think "wow, what an original setting" - it's clearly the somewhat generic "fantasy martial arts tournament" thing Sirlin has had going previously + references to classic RTS games (well, really just WC3 and Starcraft, but yeah). There seems to be a double standard where some people are extremely critical of David Sirlin for doing things that all other game designers do. For instance, X-Wing is clearly a knockoff of Wings of War - and FFG's behavior towards the Wings of War designers was shady to the point of legal controversy - but you don't get people coming into X-Wing threads and screaming "RIPOFF RIPOFF RIPOFF, DON'T GIVE FANTASY FLIGHT MONEY". There are probably 200+ games that are direct Dominion clones, but again people don't freak out every time a game uses those deckbuilding mechanics. I'm not sure why Sirlin has so many haters, but it seems well out of proportion with anything he's actually doing.
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Mar 1, 2016 18:39
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Reminder that David Sirlin is a loving hack of a designer. Here's the chip design someone made on BGG for Dominion well before Puzzle Strike was made, he just literally ripped the layout and design 100%. This was uploaded in 2008.
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Mar 1, 2016 18:50
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Holy poo poo, I wasn't aware of that.
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Mar 1, 2016 19:01
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Bottom Liner posted:Reminder that David Sirlin is a loving hack of a designer. Here's the chip design someone made on BGG for Dominion well before Puzzle Strike was made, he just literally ripped the layout and design 100%. This was uploaded in 2008. I don't think the concept of "use chips instead of cards so you can shuffle more quickly" is holy and unique. I do think the graphic design there is very similar and it would have been good for Sirlin to differentiate himself more or acknowledge the original creator (which I think he was most likely inspired by, consciously or not), but I don't think it makes him a "loving hack", especially given the track record there. (Sirlin credited Reiner Knizia in the Flash Duel rulebook for having come up with the original En Garde design, and Knizia used this as a basis for making spurious legal threats - something which maybe should have been expected given Knizia's history.) When you get right down to it Sirlin's designs are innovative and competitively deep. He's not some random guy trying to swipe other concepts and jam them all together in order to fool people - he's an experienced designer with a track record of making good and well-balanced games. Fetterkey fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 19:06
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Fetterkey posted:
wrongest loving thing i've ever heard. he literally just repackages other people's rules/mechanics/art/text and then calls it 'special thanks to' don't give david sirlin money
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Mar 1, 2016 19:15
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Sirlin's designs are all versions of other games with more layers of complexity added onto someone else's design. That's not in and of itself a bad thing but I wouldn't call his designs innovative. I know what you're saying as his games don't just add more layers for the sake of adding more layers, they are cleverly designed and generally pretty smooth. The additional layers of complexity are well done and do genuinely add to the core game, but his core game is derivative of something else. This isn't really a huge crime in the industry as it happens quite a bit for a variety of reasons but he definitely shouldn't be copying IP as blatantly as he's doing with Codex.
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Mar 1, 2016 19:20
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I will never forgive Sirlin for what he did to Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo
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Mar 1, 2016 19:23
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David Sirlin is a shitlord. He is the Donald Trump of boardgame designers. Truth.
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Mar 1, 2016 19:44
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Deviant posted:wrongest loving thing i've ever heard. he literally just repackages other people's rules/mechanics/art/text and then calls it 'special thanks to' PaybackJack posted:Sirlin's designs are all versions of other games with more layers of complexity added onto someone else's design. That's not in and of itself a bad thing but I wouldn't call his designs innovative. I know what you're saying as his games don't just add more layers for the sake of adding more layers, they are cleverly designed and generally pretty smooth. The additional layers of complexity are well done and do genuinely add to the core game, but his core game is derivative of something else. Sirlin's best-known game, Yomi, is original (and really loving good). As for other games, Flash Duel is an updated (and much better) version of En Garde, and Puzzle Strike uses Dominion-style mechanics but is more of a Puzzle Fighter (the video game) implementation than anything else. I think he made a poker variant but I haven't played that one - in any case all of those go well beyond "repackagings" and into something much improved on the former. I think that making some good new designs and some strong improvements on past games well qualifies someone as an innovative designer. In particular, I consider Codex to be substantially innovative and overall one of the coolest games I've played in a while. I have not seen another game implement anything like the patrol zone or the core "codex" mechanic, which allows for really interesting and dynamic deckbuilding. As for the IP stuff, I think it's clearly in the realm of "inside joke/winking reference" and not "ripoff" - Starcraft came out almost 20 years ago, and these are references to well-established concepts at this point!
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Mar 1, 2016 19:51
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Fetterkey posted:Sirlin's best-known game, Yomi, is original (and really loving good). Yomi is literally Rock-Paper-Scissors with layers of poo poo on top. It's a terrible game but I give him credit for the added design elements. The Codex mechanic is Mage Wars streamlined. The patrol zone is basically "guarding" in Mage Wars distilled. They're different enough that I find the simplification and added depth interesting but the design is clearly based on Sirlin taking the Mage Wars concepts and putting them into a quicker mechanic without the grid and quasi-miniatures element of the game. I'm giving the dude credit because his designs are really good, but come on man, you can't say his games are all completely unique and original. There's absolutely a place for designers who take concepts and make them better by smoothing out their edges or adding more complexity on to them, and Sirlin is absolutely one of those guys. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 20:18
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I actually doubt that Sirlin is one of the 13 people on planet earth who has played a game of Mage Wars
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Mar 1, 2016 20:40
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PaybackJack posted:Yomi is literally Rock-Paper-Scissors with layers of poo poo on top. It's a terrible game but I give him credit for the added design elements. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on Yomi. PaybackJack posted:The Codex mechanic is Mage Wars streamlined. The patrol zone is basically "guarding" in Mage Wars distilled. They're different enough that I find the simplification and added depth interesting but the design is clearly based on Sirlin taking the Mage Wars concepts and putting them into a quicker mechanic without the grid and quasi-miniatures element of the game. Good points. I think Sirlin is innovative on the level of mechanics, but not on overall designs (Yomi aside?) - even Codex has a lot of concepts ported over from Magic, Dominion, and (interestingly enough) Warcraft III. However, I still give him credit since the final designs turn out so good, and I think he integrates many intriguing new mechanics into those games. I somewhat suspect that Codex itself will wind up being copied in the future by other designers!
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Mar 1, 2016 20:42
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It's really funny watching people attack David Sirlin. I mean, seriously, it's like he kicked their loving dog or something. Here are the arguments: He steals people's ideas. Well sure, in the sense that every FPS has copied Doom, or jRPGs copied Dragon Quest, or 'Uncharted is a Tomb Raider clone. Give me a break. You see what happens? Someone has a good idea and people make changes to it to suit their tastes, and a thing called 'GENRE' emerges. The FPS, the RPG, The Adventure Game, as mentioned above: The Deckbuilder. No one bashes these new games, but when someone makes a better one it is celebrated. I swear if you guys were around when the plow was invented, you'd still be working your field by hand because of the giant, inflated, morally-superior chip on your shoulder. I also cant get why the gently caress you guys are getting offended on behalf of huge companies that you aren't a part of who aren't taking any legal action. It's ridiculous. He ruined Street Fighter 2 Super Turbo. Well no. You don't like it. That's fine. But when he has released data that shows that the changes he made to the game actually balanced it and provided better matchups, you're just wrong. Unless you value imbalance in competitive games in which case I don't know what to tell you. He released an updated version of his game and now my game is ruined. That does suck. Eventually this process should happen but putting out an incomplete game and then fixing it and selling it back at full price is a lovely thing to do. He really should offer a cheaper way to upgrade his existing games. He's trying to make money though so I guess I get it. It doesn't excuse it. If you're gonna be mad, be mad at this. He's not even making the loving PNP version of Codex available to Deluxe set backers. He's telling them to buy it on his store. What a dick. He's a hack of a game designer. No, he makes competitive games that a lot of people think are fun and are objectively well-balanced. Again, if you don't like these things, I don't know what to tell you. He's a real rear end in a top hat. Sure. Does he make good games? Do you like them? That's really all that matters. I don't get why you would evaluate a game based on anything else. Just because some online community that you don't know has a titanium hate-boner for a designer is no reason not to buy a game that you like. If you don't like the game, don't buy it, but don't let someone else's ridiculous personal vendetta stop you from buying something you like.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:20
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Are you David Sirlin
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Mar 1, 2016 22:27
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I don't know anything about that dude, but that Street fighter chart is LOL for data. "Uhh we polled people as to who was the best dude" seems pretty objective to me!
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Mar 1, 2016 22:34
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Fetterkey posted:The theme is "lighthearted vaguely fantasy real time strategy". Having a bunch of Starcraft and Warcraft III references is sort of the point, I think - and it's clear from flavor text and the like that these are references. Sorry dude but one of these is legal and the other is illegal, and the one that you think is "actually worse" is the legal one. And nobody "in the know" isn't aware that warcraft is based on warhammer. You don't need the exact name for people to get that its a reference. That isn't a reference. That's stealing. If they named zerg units "GENESTEALER WINK WINK  " they'd have gotten sued to oblivion.
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 22:36
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Vel posted:He steals people's ideas. Well sure, in the sense that every FPS has copied Doom, or jRPGs copied Dragon Quest, or 'Uncharted is a Tomb Raider clone. Give me a break. You see what happens? Someone has a good idea and people make changes to it to suit their tastes, and a thing called 'GENRE' emerges. The FPS, the RPG, The Adventure Game, as mentioned above: The Deckbuilder. No one bashes these new games, but when someone makes a better one it is celebrated. I swear if you guys were around when the plow was invented, you'd still be working your field by hand because of the giant, inflated, morally-superior chip on your shoulder. I also cant get why the gently caress you guys are getting offended on behalf of huge companies that you aren't a part of who aren't taking any legal action. It's ridiculous. This one for me depends on the level to which he gives past credit in this regard. The board game community is a lot more tight knit than the video game genre and as noted earlier he not only took the idea of poker chips but the actual look of the design from a guy online. Did that guy have a patent, or copyright? Huh? Huh? Okay, no he didn't but it's still a loving lovely thing to do. I'm not sour on him copying on the other games, with possible exception to Flash Duel because that seemed more like 2 egos colliding than anything else. To answer the bolded part of the quote it's pretty simple that Blizzard despite being a massive corporation that's out for greed, and the blood of your children and whatever was at one point a small developer that want to see their favorite table top games come to a video game format, and those games were so beloved that they've engendered good will and memories at a large point in many of the lives of people that post here. When a company makes something you like even when that thing still retains a personal connection to you, and you feel a personal connection to that product even when it's not owned or controlled by you. You personal investment comes from the time you spent playing in a game. Clearly Sirlin feels the same way as he's trying to recapture those same nostalgia and fun times he had playing these games in a new card game. As with any third party handling a major IP it's looked with a lot of skepticism and since he's not the best PR guy you are essentially not talking about the game anymore you're talking about "This rear end in a top hat wants to take something we love and make a game out of it, and that's good except that he's not paying the IP holders their proper share and he doesn't have permission to do so." It's almost the opposite of the Star Trek crowdfunding movie situation where "These beloved Star Trekkies are trying to make more of a product that isn't around anymore and doing it just to put it online for free, but the big rear end in a top hat IP holders are saying they're not allowed to anymore even though it's happened for years and now the studio is shutting them down so they can try and put out another garbage tv series that will be as bad as the garbage movies."
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Mar 1, 2016 22:45
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PaybackJack posted:Did that guy have a patent, or copyright? Huh? Huh? Okay, no he didn't Pretty sure that the graphic design would be considered copyrighted. It might be in a legal gray area though, because it was done as part of a mod to an existing game, but other than that snag it's (in theory) copyrighted. Art of all kinds is considered copyrighted automatically. I don't know about Blizzard, but pretty sure the only reason the person who did the chip designs hasn't sued is because they're probably a poor college student or something like that and can't afford a lawyer. Either that or they dropped out of the boardgames hobby before finding out about Puzzle Strike and have been completely unaware all this time.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:54
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DontMockMySmock posted:Pretty sure that the graphic design would be considered copyrighted. It might be in a legal gray area though, because it was done as part of a mod to an existing game, but other than that snag it's (in theory) copyrighted. Art of all kinds is considered copyrighted automatically. Nope: Post #1. Posts 2+.
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Mar 1, 2016 22:57
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Zaphod42 posted:Sorry dude but one of these is legal and the other is illegal, and the one that you think is "actually worse" is the legal one. I think there is basically no chance that Blizzard will sue David Sirlin, and even less of a chance that they will sue him and actually win. In general suing people that make homages to your content is probably a stupid idea, and in any case his stuff is clearly protected by the same sort of "ha ha, totally not X" shield that allows companies like Mantic to make their entire living off GW knockoffs (noting that GW is extremely lawsuit-happy). (Incidentally, "Did Blizzard rip off Warhammer" is a raging debate on web forums everywhere, even though I agree that it's obvious they did.) DontMockMySmock posted:I don't know about Blizzard, but pretty sure the only reason the person who did the chip designs hasn't sued is because they're probably a poor college student or something like that and can't afford a lawyer. Either that or they dropped out of the boardgames hobby before finding out about Puzzle Strike and have been completely unaware all this time. The person who did the chip designs is aware (and IIRC was annoyed by it), but it's not as if you can copyright the concept of a circle with a scroll on it. Fetterkey fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 22:58
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Fetterkey posted:I think there is basically no chance that Blizzard will sue David Sirlin, and even less of a chance that they will sue him and actually win. In general suing people that make homages to your content is probably a stupid idea, and in any case his stuff is clearly protected by the "ha ha, totally not X" shield that allows companies like Mantic to make their entire living off GW knockoffs (noting that GW is extremely lawsuit-happy). But its not an homage. That's the whole loving point. How do you not get this? You can't use the exact name, likeness and more and call it an homage. I can't write a story called Harry Potter and call it an homage. That doesn't hold up at all. Now, I could write a story called Bill Planter about a wizard who goes to wizard's school, that's okay. And that's the whole distinction you seem to be completely missing. The name is the exact same. The best legal defense in that case is parody, but even then in this case you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Its a competing work. There are starcraft board games even. Dude, you clearly don't know the first thing about US copyright law. There is no such loving thing as a "haha, totally not X" shield. Does not exist. You're making that up. Fair use has very clear limitations in US law and they've been eroded over the last several years for better or worse. But "haha totally not X" was NEVER one of them. Mantic's dwarves have a distinct look from GW's, and have unique names. They do not directly use any copyrighted images or names or if they did GW would absolutely sue them. And the whole "did blizzard rip off warhammer" is a raging debate among NERDS. Among lawyers there is no debate, the answer is NO. This poo poo isn't about nerd arguments dude, its about the law. Arguing whether blizzard's similarities to warhammer 40k amounts to "copying" isn't what I'm discussing. What we're saying is that Sirlin broke the law. blizzard did not break the law when they copied 40k's elements. Sirlin did break the law when he copied blizzard's names. Its not hard. Blizzard may never sue Sirlin because it may not be worth their time, there's a dozen lovely facebook games that steal blizzard assets that are acting illegally, although sometimes blizzard does sue them and does win. Its highly illegal. Just because Blizzard doesn't want to spend money on a lawsuit doesn't make it legal, and just because they haven't sued yet doesn't mean they won't or can't. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 23:08
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Anyone have experience with storing sleeved cards in binder pages? The Ultra Pro binder pages have good reviews but I can't tell if they'll hold cards in FFG sleeves. I'm getting unhappy with using a Core insert as a solution as I pick up more LOTR cards, but if you can't hold at least 3 sleeved cards per pocket I'm not sure binders are any better.
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Mar 1, 2016 23:38
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Zaphod42 posted:But its not an homage. That's the whole loving point. How do you not get this? You can't use the exact name, likeness and more and call it an homage. It's not the exact same name or likeness, that's the thing. Starcraft has Protoss with Carriers and Arbiters, while Codex has "Vortoss" with "Hives" and "Nebulas" that look a lot like their Protoss counterparts (though not exactly the same). That's what I mean by the "totally not X" shield (obviously that's not a legal term, lol) - everyone knows what it's supposed to be, but Sirlin isn't actually saying "Protoss are in my game and you can play as Tassadar and build Dark Templars" or whatever (which would of course be illegal). Incidentally, I think using the actual names for most of these units would probably be fine too, since they're generic words. This is why even GW (infamous for trying to sue people for using the term "Space Marine") realized they had to change the names of their paints and even some of their factions (Sisters of Battle -> Adepta Sororitas, Imperial Guard -> Astra Militarum) - they knew they had no real case against third parties who were selling "Imperial Guard Storm Troopers" since those are such generic terms, but that they would be able to take action against someone selling "Astra Militarum Tempestus Scions" or whatever. Zaphod42 posted:And the whole "did blizzard rip off warhammer" is a raging debate among NERDS. Among lawyers there is no debate, the answer is NO. This is absolutely about nerd arguments, lol? If you're a betting man,  says there is never any serious legal challenge to this game from Blizzard. (edit: in the next 5 years or something, gotta have a time when I could collect my winnings)
Fetterkey fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 23:44
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Mr. Met posted:Anyone have experience with storing sleeved cards in binder pages? The Ultra Pro binder pages have good reviews but I can't tell if they'll hold cards in FFG sleeves. I'm getting unhappy with using a Core insert as a solution as I pick up more LOTR cards, but if you can't hold at least 3 sleeved cards per pocket I'm not sure binders are any better. 3 is cozy when unsleeved. I store unsleeved in binders and pop them into dragon shields once I build with them.
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Mar 1, 2016 23:45
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Fetterkey posted:It's not the exact same name or likeness, that's the thing. Starcraft has Protoss with Carriers and Arbiters, while Codex has "Vortoss" with "Hives" and "Nebulas" that look a lot like their Protoss counterparts (though not exactly the same). That's what I mean by the "totally not X" shield (obviously that's not a legal term, lol) - everyone knows what it's supposed to be, but Sirlin isn't actually saying "Protoss are in my game and you can play as Tassadar and build Dark Templars" or whatever (which would of course be illegal). You missed things like the Reaver looking like a Reaver and being called a Reaver, which we posted in this thread multiple times. Wake up.If the reaver looked kinda like a reaver but somewhat different and was called a "scavenger" instead, I'd have no complaints. Fetterkey posted:Incidentally, I think using the actual names for most of these units would probably be fine too, since they're generic words. This is why even GW (infamous for trying to sue people for using the term "Space Marine") realized they had to change the names of their paints and even some of their factions (Sisters of Battle -> Adepta Sororitas, Imperial Guard -> Astra Militarum) - they knew they had no real case against third parties who were selling "Imperial Guard Storm Troopers" since those are such generic terms, but that they would be able to take action against someone selling "Astra Militarum Tempestus Scions" or whatever. If it was just the name you'd be fine. You could totally have a "reaver" card in codex and that'd be 100% legal, as its a common word. But having it be named "reaver" while also looking exactly like a starcraft reaver? That's clear and blatant copyright infringement. It doesn't get any cleaner than that. For me though more than just being illegal, its just really tacky. How long does it take to look through a thesaurus for a new word? And names like "jaina stormborne" being a mix of Jaina Proudmoore and Daenerys Stormborne just makes codex sound like somebody's fanfiction. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 23:59
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Zaphod42 posted:makes codex sound like somebody's fanfiction. That's the best description of David Sirlin games I've ever read. quote:It's really funny watching people attack David Sirlin. I mean, seriously, it's like he kicked their loving dog or something. Here are the arguments:
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Mar 2, 2016 00:23
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Zaphod42 posted:You missed things like the Reaver looking like a Reaver and being called a Reaver, which we posted in this thread multiple times. I think you'll find that the "Vortoss Reaver" is purple and silver, while this "Protoss Reaver" is gold and turquoise. Totally different guys, I swear! Let me know if you accept my bet!
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Mar 2, 2016 00:26
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The ripoff/homage stuff doesn't bother me as much as clearly lazy stuff like Doubling Guy or whatever. If you're going to make fluff at least be consistent, if you're going to be Spike Competitive Guy Who Needs No Flavor then just be that and call your cards Ice Mage Lady or Guy What Taps Your poo poo.
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Mar 2, 2016 00:27
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Runnin out of game companies its okay to give money to. Please dont betray us ffg youre all I have left
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Mar 2, 2016 01:08
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Bottom Liner posted:That's the best description of David Sirlin games I've ever read. It's equally funny to watch people throw out the laziest and least interesting criticisms of him rather than accepting that other people like different games than you.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:08
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canyoneer posted:3 is cozy when unsleeved. I store unsleeved in binders and pop them into dragon shields once I build with them. Sounds cumbersome, but probably better for deck building than pulling a fat stack of sleeved cards out of the core with an insert or a long card box. I'll give it a shot.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:19
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TheHoosier posted:Runnin out of game companies its okay to give money to. Please dont betray us ffg youre all I have left FFG offered to license the Wings of War system and bring its designers onto the project when they were making X-Wing. The Wings of War guys said yes, and in response FFG stalled with a bunch of bureaucratic stuff, secretly developed the game in-house (using all the mechanics they said they were going to license), and then withdrew their offer and released the game without compensating the original designers. IMO this is significantly worse than any of the attacks on Sirlin, but I still buy things from FFG because they make good games anyway, regardless of what I think about their business practices (or the very bad reviews of them as an employer on Glassdoor, etc. etc.).
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Mar 2, 2016 01:52
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Shut up about games that aren't out yet and discuss new Conquest mechanics, you dumb sperglords.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:53
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Bottom Liner posted:It's really funny to watch people write long winded defenses of the man like he's your own flesh and blood when we point out that he's as original and creative as any number of f2p mobile games that shamelessly rip off content, and about as consumer friendly as well. It's really funny to watch people tell someone not to buy a game they've never played because of beef they have with a man they've never met.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:00
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I've played the pnp Codex set. It is basically streamlined Mage Wars and if done by any other company and it didn't cost $200 dollars it would be alright. But since I've never shook the mans hand I guess I have no room to criticize his laziness or lovely business practices right?
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Mar 2, 2016 02:08
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Deep Strike, huh. Sounds interesting, I was wondering if they'd use that a keyword or if that was just implicit in Ambush or something. I'd love to see another Necron spoiler though.Vel posted:It's really funny to watch people tell someone not to buy a game they've never played because of beef they have with a man they've never met. I never met Hitler  ()
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Mar 2, 2016 02:09
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Bottom Liner posted:I've played the pnp Codex set. It is basically streamlined Mage Wars and if done by any other company and it didn't cost $200 dollars it would be alright. But since I've never shook the mans hand I guess I have no room to criticize his laziness or lovely business practices right? You're not really criticizing anything. Critique takes thought. You're just throwing out insults.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:10
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