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Plan Z posted:Yeah, so? I've played it at a lot of different points, and I like the base game. There was just a bad update that made a change the majority of us didn't like. It's just funny that people post here and in the steam thread about a PERMANENTLY RUINED GAME when as OneThousandMonkeys pointed out, it's like 1 of 2 bosses that are broken right now and maybe a kinda skeezy cosmetic system. It's still very much a fun game you can pour hundreds of hours into. Away all Goats fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 21:37
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I'm not saying it's permanently ruined. I'm giving feedback. I'll never understand the Goon attitude of "poo poo sucks, and you're a nerd wasting your time if you try to post on shittier forums where the devs interact, or take that gay survey." If this thread was bustling full of people interested in the game, I'd avoid threadshitting, but we've seen that this thread can go a week without any posts, so that's gotta be saying something. And I don't mean this post as confrontational, either. I know it's annoying when you enjoy a game see nothing but people making GBS threads on it for reasons you disagree with. I'm just saying me and my group's interest as well as others in the threads, is sapped from the dice roll after playing through higher difficulties and having people insta-killed with no acknowledgement from the devs. And looking at the fact that 800k or something people bought into the EA and around 1,500 people play it at peak hours says many people feel the same way. e: and the only thing the devs talk about with any consistency are Nvidia Flex and the Workshop. Killing Floor 2: Fleshpounds will help you beat your own M.E.A.T. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 22:04
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Plan Z posted:I'm not saying it's permanently ruined. I'm giving feedback. I'll never understand the Goon attitude of "poo poo sucks, and you're a nerd wasting your time if you try to post on shittier forums where the devs interact, or take that gay survey." If this thread was bustling full of people interested in the game, I'd avoid threadshitting, but we've seen that this thread can go a week without any posts, so that's gotta be saying something. And I don't mean this post as confrontational, either. I know it's annoying when you enjoy a game see nothing but people making GBS threads on it for reasons you disagree with. Additionally, we were, you know, promised a finished product. I'd also argue that being part of the development process was strongly implied by the whole early-access thing. Now, I'm not saying we won't get a finished game, or that we haven't been involved at all, but there really ought not to be anything wrong with speaking up when you feel like you're not getting the product/experience you paid for. There seems to be this weird obsession with not criticizing the game creators, and to instead just accept whatever we get, lest they pick up and leave us with nothing. Or something like that. Oh wait, I forgot, talking about a game in the thread for said game is for idiots and nerds.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:22
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Seriously, I'd rather have discussion about how the game could be improved over lack of discussion about the game any day of the week. I will, however, take offense to saying there is no acknowledgement from the devs about the Hans boss fight when Yoshiro mentioned that the fight is in the process being revised about a week ago. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=116416 If that flew under the RADAR and everyone missed that announcement, cool. Now you know and I hope that it makes you happy to know people are working on it. If you just want to say that Tripwire hasn't acknowledged that the fight needs work because you're salty that it wasn't done fast enough then I'm going to roll my eyes like there's no tomorrow.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:37
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Questioner86 posted:Seriously, I'd rather have discussion about how the game could be improved over lack of discussion about the game any day of the week. I think a big thing is the obsession with each update having to be released completely polished and perfect. That's noble and commendable, but most people just want something new to play. Why not just release stuff into the wild and collect the feedback so you can tweak it as it comes along as opposed to just releasing something then having to go through months of revisions?
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Feb 26, 2016 22:46
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Devs forget to finish early access game, add microtransactions, and then flee. Gj tripwire. At least I made a nice profit in steam credit from the hat update.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:48
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Away all Goats posted:It's just funny that people post here and in the steam thread about a PERMANENTLY RUINED GAME when as OneThousandMonkeys pointed out, it's like 1 of 2 bosses that are broken right now and maybe a kinda skeezy cosmetic system. It's still very much a fun game you can pour hundreds of hours into. While I think you're being pretty stupid by complaining about the complainers, I think its largely due to the lack of communication and when we do get anything its either not very clear what the intention is or "we're looking into it." And I personally still don't trust trip for poo poo when it comes to balancing, they had an entire game to get it right with KF1 and consistently hosed it up at every single step and so far a chunk of the changes done to KF2 have been equally as stupid like the ammo cuts to commando and the medic nerf(not the nade one that's fine) and of course the Hans buff that has been the primary point of complaints for many people, I mean if you can hotfix all the poo poo we've seen you hotfix hans a bit till you can work on something more permanent and no monkeys, killing yourself on the boss is not a loving solution. I would also imagine people are so vocal because of the early access thing as well, some might consider we're sitting on an unfinished product and the lack of communication might worry some people, not that I expect trip to abandon the game but I can see where some folks are coming from and why they would worry.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:58
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Sykic posted:I guess it's too much to hope that they use that beta state to actually test poo poo. Push out an update, see what people like and don't like. Something didn't work out? Roll it back, try something else. Just do something instead of outright ignoring everyone and plugging their ears whenever someone says the words "Hans" and "Demo". I've been beta testing paladins. It's been refreshing, they roll out surveys with every patch asking for very specific feedback on feature changes and adjustments on a per-mechanic basis. I'm sure they're collecting player stats as well, but they've made some pretty dramatic changes to the game based on player feedback. A lot of the obvious issues I've submitted as problems have been addressed, which gives me the feeling that the game is being actively developed and that the beta process is being used appropriately. If tripwire could bridge the gap between their lackluster efforts and what a free to play developer is doing, I'd have a much easier time playing the game and recommending it to others. As it stands, I have a negative review for it on steam, talk about the games problems any opportunity I am given, and if steams refund policy allowed it, I'd get a refund.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:59
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Alteisen posted:While I think you're being pretty stupid by complaining about the complainers, I think its largely due to the lack of communication and when we do get anything its either not very clear what the intention is or "we're looking into it." Who's complaining? I enjoy this thread which is why I read it.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:10
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Questioner86 posted:Seriously, I'd rather have discussion about how the game could be improved over lack of discussion about the game any day of the week. I think everyone would agree it's fairly obvious that not addressing "discussion about how the game could be improved" given enough time will eventually lead directly to "lack of discussion about the game" . It seems the question is how much time can you afford to let pass, and that Tripwire is still trying to find a balance here, between maybe internal testing time and content quality. Others have proposed some solutions to this, although I won't remark on their quality. That being said, I don't think it's wise to roll your eyes when a real amount of "salty" is presently leading to a lack of discussion about your game,. You seem to want to understand why people didn't hear Yoshiro. Without assigning blame, I must say that's a legitimate problem; it may be communication issues, or just that people aren't listening anymore. I think they will have to *see* something before the salt ends. This also may be symptomatic of a larger trust issue between the community and the devs, which I believe is a serious issue. Of course this is all pure speculation and may be entirely incorrect, in which case I apologize and thank you for your time :V
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Feb 26, 2016 23:16
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The main reason I am not playing right now is that I've played it a lot since release (I mean, I have like 86 hours in it, which is a lot of time for me and puts it amongst my top ten games on Steam), so I only boot it up to check out new content when it comes up. I still see it as an awesome game and I am following development. Also a lot of my usual gaming buddies are waiting for the full release to buy in. I imagine a lot of the playerbase is in a similar place as me.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:27
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Skoll posted:I think a big thing is the obsession with each update having to be released completely polished and perfect. That's noble and commendable, but most people just want something new to play. Why not just release stuff into the wild and collect the feedback so you can tweak it as it comes along as opposed to just releasing something then having to go through months of revisions? I know that's a really sore point for you in particular so I'll see if I can break it down for you. I don't care if you agree 100% with the reasoning but I'm going on the assumption that you're interested in the thought process behind it. Personally, I think of our approach as less striving for "perfect" content and more striving for "not pushing out content that we already know is lovely". 1) Early access doesn't mean your content won't be called buggy. If you release buggy content people will slam you for it on the internet (even if you don't have a meta-critic score yet because your game isn't "out" yet). This can do a lot of damage to how people perceive the quality of the game and can impact sales. I don't know if you're familiar with Red Orchestra 2 but that game was buggy as hell when it came out and part of my job immediately when I got hired at TWI was un-loving that game and releasing the Game of the Year patch. That buggy release tarnished TWI's reputation quite a bit and the owners have ZERO interest confirming people's prejudices that TWI is "the studio that releases buggy games". The laurels KF2 got as being a highly optimized and polished experience upon early access release are something we're really proud of because it helps dig us out of that hole RO2 left us in by showing that we're interested in doing better. 2) Releasing content you know is poo poo diminishes the quality of feedback. While every so often you get some really insightful users giving well researched feedback the majority of people playing in a beta or early access release play until they hit their first major issue and immediately share that experience on the steam forums, community sites, youtube, whatever. That makes a ton of sense, you were having fun playing the game and something sucked so bad that it took you out of the game and you want the developers to know it sucked. That's really useful when it points out something we don't know about the game. When people are just telling us "Hey, this weapon that is only half finished sucks!" it didn't tell us anything. We know it sucks. It's not done yet. It's also harder to identify other problems if the forums are full of people complaining about a feature you already know is incomplete. 3) Every update adds to the overall time to finish the game. Software development workflows are complicated and frustrating. We're working in multiple branches across the project to make sure we don't destabilize the game as we add things to it or accidentally leak something early. I'm not saying that if we released more frequent CONTENT updates it would add ten years until the game is done (we're already tinkering our workflow so that we can release more frequent bug fix patches and balance tuning, we've done an update every 2 weeks in 2016) but every time we have to make a content update and "just release stuff into the wild" it pushes back the release date of the completed game or the feature you're hoping to get. It can add up. Sure, you might get 1 new weapon of the exciting new Booger Eater perk early but the perk as a whole ends up being delayed a full month later than it would have been released because we broke it up into smaller parts. Approximately quarterly updates worked great for KF1 and we knew how to do those without going crazy so our initial approach was that. People obviously feel really strongly that they want updates all the time so we've had to make changes to get updates out more frequently without totally boning our productivity. It's been a challenge. It remains a challenge.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:33
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When you say you are quitting the game, no one (1) cares; (2) is impressed that it took you 200 hours to decide the game was irrevocably poo poo and that the devs drink your tears at meetings; (3) believes you won't be back the moment there is a substantive update. We all know the game is being updated fairly slowly, has limited content, and balance issues up and down the board, some minor, some extremely irritating, some bizarre (we're all playing a game series that is historically about huge maps that you play 5% of). It's totally OK if you stop dropping 10+ hours a week on Killing Floor 2. No one is dying. If you don't want to play games with a completion time table of [Whenever/Never], don't buy early access stuff.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:40
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As I've said before doing Early Access was a mistake, it's pretty much killed any hype the game had for both PC version(due to all the mishandling of balance and perceived lack of listening to their customers) and the PS4 version(since those of us who will be playing there are probably going to have to wait at least another year or even two or three before it comes out due to them putting priority on the PC version, if it is even still going to happen at all)
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Feb 26, 2016 23:42
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Questioner86 posted:I know that's a really sore point for you in particular so I'll see if I can break it down for you. I don't care if you agree 100% with the reasoning but I'm going on the assumption that you're interested in the thought process behind it. Personally, I think of our approach as less striving for "perfect" content and more striving for "not pushing out content that we already know is lovely". I don't know poo poo about game dev or whatnot so I won't suffer the pretense of trying to tell you your job. Yea, it helps to know the thought processes behind your reasoning because someone ( like myself in particular ) won't be able to see it from that angle due to not really knowing how it works. I do understand completely what you mean about RO 2, as I ordered the deluxe editions of that AND Rising Storm ( and looking forward to RO 2 Vietnam ). You've explained this reasoning to me and I respect that. I doublechecked and I have 220 hours in KF 2. I don't mind waiting for you guys to finish poo poo because I have other stuff to play, but does the community at large know the reasoning behind things besides, "we just want to strive to put out the best product possible."? I know Yoshiro does those bi-weekly updates and they help, plus it's a nice little inside look at the studio, but we both know how entitled manbaby gamers ( read: goons ) are. Have you guys considered doing the current in thing and putting up a trello board of what you're working on?
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Feb 26, 2016 23:54
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Questioner86 posted:Seriously, I'd rather have discussion about how the game could be improved over lack of discussion about the game any day of the week. I think your team has done some great stuff (like I said, the base game experience is tight and satisfying, and a lot features are well done and make me passionate about it), and I like to see how on it they are with bug reports on the Reddit. I saw Yoshiro's post and even mentioned their look at a long-term fix for Hans in one of my posts, but it's the only time it's been mentioned while this thread goes dead for days/weeks then everyone asks if Hans is fixed when they see a new patch out. And your larger post after this which I won't quote to create a larger wordpile is a lot more persuasive than accusing some of us of just being "salty." I never said Hans needs this great re-tooling of AI and features which I presume is months of work and expect the team to have it out as a quick update, but we had an update where he went from an okay boss to a "remove player" AI routine because level 0 gunslingers start joining on round 9. If I could be more specific, a damage modifier of .5 when previous increments were in the .01 to .05 ranges (last I checked spreadsheets) depending on player count is a little ridiculous. It doesn't feel like it makes him more of a challenge for a large group, but more of a boss that either wipes everyone out instantaneously, or best-case scenario ends in a twenty minute kiting. Hopefully that's more specific and supports why I think that it could be a much easier micro-tweak. Maybe I'm wrong, and this is very unreasonable, but I'm failing to see the grand problem behind my reasoning. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 00:47
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Questioner86 posted:I know that's a really sore point for you in particular so I'll see if I can break it down for you. I don't care if you agree 100% with the reasoning but I'm going on the assumption that you're interested in the thought process behind it. Personally, I think of our approach as less striving for "perfect" content and more striving for "not pushing out content that we already know is lovely". It is difficult for people to accept your position when they can see other developers release more content and address balance / bug issues more frequently. In my particular example from above, a cursory google search informs me that Hi-Rez employs 4 times as many staff as Tripwire does. So maybe it's wrong to expect a similar level of productivity, but that isn't going to stop others from wondering what takes Tripwire so long. Tripwires dev cycle is frustrating when it comes to matters that the playerbase feels could be addressed with pushing simple numerical changes out that don't require the development of new art assets, or programming of new AI. For something like Hans in particular, a simple gesture like "hey, we know this boss kind of sucks and is a blight on an otherwise good game, have this balance patch that changes his melee damage while we internally revisit his design" could go a long way.
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Feb 27, 2016 03:58
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How are those adjustments to Demo coming?
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Feb 27, 2016 04:54
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Speaking of, is the explosives sputtering out on gibs a client-side issue? I have max FleX gibs enabled so there's always a torso hanging off a doorway that appears to blocks off shots. I swear, between that and the bug where launcher-type weapons won't fire during ZED time, it seems like an annoying amount of my shots as demo end up doing nothing.
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Feb 27, 2016 05:02
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moot the hopple posted:Speaking of, is the explosives sputtering out on gibs a client-side issue? I have max FleX gibs enabled so there's always a torso hanging off a doorway that appears to blocks off shots. Pretty sure that corpse positions are handled client-side. I don't think Flex affects bodies, either. They're just there until they despawn, so a higher corpse count makes it more likely that body will get bugged into geometry and block shots.
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Feb 27, 2016 05:12
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moot the hopple posted:Speaking of, is the explosives sputtering out on gibs a client-side issue? I have max FleX gibs enabled so there's always a torso hanging off a doorway that appears to blocks off shots. I don't have FLEX on and very frequently I find myself shooting at Bloat corpses instead of Crawlers, cause they can go through them and my bullets can't. And Gibs are client-side, as I verified a few times screaming like a madman "HOLY poo poo DID YOU SEE THAT SCRAKE'S HAND FLYING OFF" and my friends are like "uh no, his LEG fell off". Also my grenade has been blocked more then one time by a flying gib, so there's that. I kinda like when it happens, it's not as frustrating (and makes more sense) as the poo poo I had to deal with grenades in Payday 2  The game is still fun in the current state and it seems, with a bit under the 2 months to go, we might get the KF1 classes in the game within a year of KF2 being in Early Access. Yay. And then it's off to new and exciting, yet unseen content and new gimmicky classes. Can't wait for the martial artist and the inevitable One Punch Man character skin for that.
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Feb 27, 2016 10:45
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Oh yeah: does anyone else get the thing where for some reason Steam downloads "Killing Floor 2 Workshop Content" even though they are not subscribed to anything?
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Feb 27, 2016 11:50
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Plan Z posted:The loving Hotline Miami 2 thread summed up.
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Feb 27, 2016 23:38
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This game is literally unplayable for me because it bug splats every single round. I have no idea why and there doesn't seem to be any fix. 
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Feb 27, 2016 23:57
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Shumagorath posted:What was the deal with HLM2? I never finished it because the level set to Roller Mobster was too hard. Too many offscreen enemies with guns at windows and long levels compared to the first game was my problem with it.
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Feb 28, 2016 01:19
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Shumagorath posted:What was the deal with HLM2? I never finished it because the level set to Roller Mobster was too hard. The level design and weapon placement was really bad, and didn't make up for limitations of AI and the engine. Most action was shooting off-screen or madly mowing down swarms of enemies as their AI broke down going around corners. My comment was about posting in the thread. Any time someone mentioned the level design, either A Certain Specific Poster threw a psychotic fit, or other Goons told them to "git gud." Tell them you'd gotten like all A or S ranks, then "  Doesn't sound like you hate the game if you played it so much."
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Feb 28, 2016 01:54
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I've quite enjoyed my 100+ hours in this game, and look forward to drunkenly blasting zeds in the future with some friends. As it stands now however, I'm not having fun with a lot of the gameplay choices available. I can either play zerk, firebug, or support. Then if hans shows up I just chalk it up to a loss. I plan on coming back eventually but I've been tempted to uninstall a few times for HDD space as I can't see myself playing at the moment. If and when they put out some fixes I'll be back on board, but until then I'm giving it a break. Questioner I give you a lot of credit for dealing with all this poo poo. You guys at TW got a big hill to climb. I look forward to seeing what happens in the future. ps theta zero is a straight up busta
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Feb 28, 2016 06:57
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Plan Z posted:The level design and weapon placement was really bad, and didn't make up for limitations of AI and the engine. Most action was shooting off-screen or madly mowing down swarms of enemies as their AI broke down going around corners. tbh sounds like you need to get good. HLM2 was not HLM1, things change. getting wrecked never changes
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Mar 1, 2016 18:07
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MadBimber posted:tbh sounds like you need to get good. HLM2 was not HLM1, things change. getting wrecked never changes This is a joke, right? People don't actually say 'get good' do they?
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Mar 2, 2016 00:23
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CJacobs posted:This is a joke, right? People don't actually say 'get good' do they? Sounds like we've got someone who needs to... get good 
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Mar 2, 2016 00:31
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CJacobs posted:This is a joke, right? People don't actually say 'get good' do they? they did in the hlm2 thread like a lot the game was not good but the response to basically all criticism was 'git gud' it was peak goon is what i'm saying
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Mar 2, 2016 00:32
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CJacobs posted:This is a joke, right? People don't actually say 'get good' do they? I've been told to get good in this very thread 
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Mar 2, 2016 01:07
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CJacobs posted:This is a joke, right? People don't actually say 'get good' do they? u mad cuz u bad
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Mar 2, 2016 01:08
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Colosmicon posted:I've been told to get good in this very thread Oh. That's a shame.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:09
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I was bad at HLM2 (and even worse at the Hardcore difficulty) and i am bad at KF2 but i had more fun with the former because it had better music. And less frustrating bosses. Anyway, the HLM2 OST works great with SUPER HOT so i'm set anyway.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:19
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Coolguye posted:they did in the hlm2 thread
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Mar 2, 2016 01:24
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Coolguye posted:the game was not good I came to like 2's music more than 1 after a while, poo poo was good.
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Mar 2, 2016 02:21
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Hotline Miami 2 is an astoundingly good game with divisive level design and a slew of technical problems carried forward from the first game that should have been fixed during development. It could've used a few more months in the oven. Pee pee doo doo, your enjoyment of the game depends on how much the above bothers you. Kind of like Killing Floor 2!
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Mar 2, 2016 03:56
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Personally I thought Hotline Miami's music was annoying, but not as annoying as the game Well that's my hot take, peace out thread
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Mar 2, 2016 07:46
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I sometimes switch out KF2 music for Hotline Miami 2 music. It is great, specially when you get one of the Carpenter Brut songs like Le Perv.
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Mar 2, 2016 12:16
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