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i've said it before and i'll keep saying it. i'd just like for the game to play more like it did during the closed beta days before the introduction of DHS. it literally was a game of attrition and heat management and it was absolutely loving awesome. easily one of the best games ever and if the new mechanic brings it closer to those days, i'm all for it. at this point, i want pgi to try something fresh because new quirks and game modes alone won't bring me back full-time when the core game has remained the same for nearly three years. i've really grown tired of the alpha-twist-alpha gameplay. A Curvy Goonette posted:Definitely what I want in a first-person shooter. that's part of my problem with the game, it's plays more like a fps than a simulator
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Mar 2, 2016 18:50
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teepo posted:nobody (me) is arguing that? but since you can't infer for poo poo, let me explain it better When to torso twist now: right after alpha strike. When to torso twist in Ghost Heat 2: the reckoning: right after fire control finishes streaming out your alpha strike. Maybe a difference of a second between those two. Yeah, huge tactical change.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:51
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Great Beer posted:When to torso twist now: right after alpha strike. When to torso twist in Ghost Heat 2: the reckoning: right after fire control finishes streaming out your alpha strike. Maybe a difference of a second between those two. Yeah, huge tactical change. the new system is being designed so you'd never fire more than one alpha a match smart guy
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Mar 2, 2016 18:52
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teepo posted:
because it is an fps. this is not a simulation game and never will be. it's a simple team deathmatch fps and nothing short of a complete overhaul will change that.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:55
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A Curvy Goonette posted:because it is an fps. this is not a simulation game and never will be. oh ok
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Mar 2, 2016 18:55
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try to play it as a sim with a joystick and foot pedals and tell me how that works out for you some time
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Mar 2, 2016 18:56
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I, too, wish it were a true mech sim.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:56
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Oh Snapple! posted:The end-goal was already explained: a game where you Alpha maybe once per match, if even that, and all battles are ones of slow attrition Not really. My king crab almost never alphas. I just use firecontrol and poo poo out damage with my 4ac5 and hit the mediums if I have the heat to handle it. This mech really is all about finding a good place to post up where you aren't being primaried.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:57
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A Curvy Goonette posted:try to play it as a sim with a joystick and foot pedals and tell me how that works out for you some time will prob will still be better than you
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Mar 2, 2016 18:58
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Now, now, let's all put our utilikilts on, bust out our Steel Battalion controllers, and settle this like real Gamers.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:01
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teepo posted:will prob will still be better than you turn on your monitor idiot. lmao, see you in the funny papers.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:01
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Honestly, I wonder if the game wouldn't play better if they doubled the cooldown on every weapon and proportionally slowed down all the mechs by some amount. I have no loving clue how long a 'combat round' was supposed to last in the old tabletop game, but the time to think was a key factor in making it seem slow and deliberate and therefore not very FPS-like. You were lucky to kill an enemy mech inside of 30 minutes of careful judging and maneuvering.teepo posted:the new system is being designed so you'd never fire more than one alpha a match smart guy I sort of understand why you are repeatedly hammering away at this, uh, statement or assumption or whatever. I am acknowledging your need to have us believe it, okay? Like they said in that cartoon movie about the blue cat indians, "I see you." However, I think there's a slight chance that people will build mechs that can or will alpha more than once per match no matter what the sam gently caress the devs do. Like, okay they heat you the gently caress up a bunch, right? So you alpha. Then you wait a while. But, you know, by the time four or five minutes go by, you probably cooled back down, right? So I apologize for not agreeing with your commitment here although I will understand if you need to repeat it four or five more times, verbatim. I see you
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Mar 2, 2016 19:02
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Safety Factor posted:Now, now, let's all put our utilikilts on, bust out our Steel Battalion controllers, and settle this like real Gamers. You provide the steel battalion controller and I'll pony up for a utilikilt. Tujague posted:Honestly, I wonder if the game wouldn't play better if they doubled the cooldown on every weapon and proportionally slowed down all the mechs by some amount. I have no loving clue how long a 'combat round' was supposed to last in the old tabletop game, but the time to think was a key factor in making it seem slow and deliberate and therefore not very FPS-like. You were lucky to kill an enemy mech inside of 30 minutes of careful judging and maneuvering. Battletech turns are supposed to represent 10 seconds of real time, so while TT is faster thanwhat you suggest, the rates of fire in MWO are much, much higher than in the original game, even when taking Solaris 7 rules into account. TL;DR I agree that rates of fire for most guns is too high. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 19:03
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teepo posted:the new system is being designed so you'd never fire more than one alpha a match smart guy Fire control is an AHK frontend that gives you improved chainfire by letting you determine the ROF and which weapon groups are fired. That means you're never actually alpha striking. And if a system is so easily circumvented by an AHK macro, why bother having it at all?
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Mar 2, 2016 19:10
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Great Beer posted:Fire control is an AHK frontend that gives you improved chainfire by letting you determine the ROF and which weapon groups are fired. That means you're never actually alpha striking. And if a system is so easily circumvented by an AHK macro, why bother having it at all? Because Paul and Russ are retards? Er sorry, that brings shame to actual people with mental handicaps.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:19
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Great Beer posted:Fire control is an AHK frontend that gives you improved chainfire by letting you determine the ROF and which weapon groups are fired. That means you're never actually alpha striking. And if a system is so easily circumvented by an AHK macro, why bother having it at all? we only know the designers intent at this juncture and literally nothing else so i'm failing to see your point
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Mar 2, 2016 19:25
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teepo posted:i've said it before and i'll keep saying it. i'd just like for the game to play more like it did during the closed beta days before the introduction of DHS. it literally was a game of attrition and heat management and it was absolutely loving awesome. easily one of the best games ever and if the new mechanic brings it closer to those days, i'm all for it. What the gently caress are you talking about the closed beta days? What I remember was dropping an 400XL in a Hunchback with 9 Small Lasers and running down Jenners and Commandos, or dropping the same engine in an Awesome that had 6 SRM6's or like 8 MPL's and brawling the absolute poo poo out of people. The Atlas builds were identical as well except you replaced the AC/20 with a Gauss rifle. Large Lasers/LPL were worthless gently caress if anything the pace has slowed significantly from those days, in large part due to the engagement ranges no longer being point blank and the IS XL engines being less common
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Mar 2, 2016 19:27
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Tabletop was deliberately designed to avoid 'aim' as part of gameplay, with primary system of dice rolls to control hit location, and a whole slew of sub-systems (criticals, speed modifiers, etc) to force players to rely on composition and positioning as their keys to victory. : Lets take this game, and introduce perfect pinpoint damage, and also increase the rate of fire and heat cap. : Hey, everybody just aims for a mechs CT and we all die really fast because all damage can be concentrated there by weapons that fire too quickly and are 100% accurate. : We must adhere to tabletop rules for everything... except this so perfect pinpoint damage is never going away. Instead where going to mess with amount of heat you generate, but you'll still have the higher heat cap. : That hasn't really fixed anything... People are still complaining about being cored by pinpoint weapons. Let's change how heat works some more, because *farting noises*...No matter how much they fool around with heat, they will never solve the fundamental pinpoint issue they introduced into their game.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:29
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Great Beer posted:Fire control is an AHK frontend that gives you improved chainfire by letting you determine the ROF and which weapon groups are fired. That means you're never actually alpha striking. And if a system is so easily circumvented by an AHK macro, why bother having it at all? It's actually a lot worse than that because it hurts people that don't go out of their way to get the Fire Control/AHK and set it up properly.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:31
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If they really wanted to fix that they should just institute a cone of fire for the weapons, which would actually give a somewhat reasonable way to balance things a bit. It makes sense that an LPL would be spitting poo poo all over the place, while a gauss rifle would be fairly pinpoint. If nothing else it would be worth it to hear the wailing from the sniper crew. Hitting targets at your weapon's max range might actually be more difficult than point and click, which would absolutely follow the TT. The more I think about it the more the hit modifiers in TT would almost have to be due to the inherent inaccuracy of the weapons. A society that can build 100 ton robots powered by fusion engines and which has mastered intersteller travel can probably figure out how to stabilize a weapons system. The only real way you have range modifiers make sense is if the guns are just inherently not all that accurate, which actually makes the different ranges of them start to fit as well.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:34
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It sounds exactly like the current system except without the hidden numbers, and an actual UI element. It'll probably still be obfuscated as hell though. "Can I see how much power this consumes outside of firing it in a match?" "UI3.0 will be able to show you that. Look forward to it." Also quit trying to justify poo poo via "realistic" or lore reasons, leave that to the clanner RP spergs.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:38
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If they do anything but take the ghost heat away that we have now, I'm quitting. Done, gently caress PGI.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:41
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Cyrano4747 posted:If they really wanted to fix that they should just institute a cone of fire for the weapons, which would actually give a somewhat reasonable way to balance things a bit. It makes sense that an LPL would be spitting poo poo all over the place, while a gauss rifle would be fairly pinpoint. Oh man targetting computers could be useful
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Mar 2, 2016 19:45
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Kazvall posted:If they do anything but take the ghost heat away that we have now, I'm quitting. Done, gently caress PGI.  ?
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Mar 2, 2016 19:45
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Yeah, they took too long on that.
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Mar 2, 2016 19:48
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Bolow posted:What the gently caress are you talking about the closed beta days? What I remember was dropping an 400XL in a Hunchback with 9 Small Lasers and running down Jenners and Commandos, or dropping the same engine in an Awesome that had 6 SRM6's or like 8 MPL's and brawling the absolute poo poo out of people. The Atlas builds were identical as well except you replaced the AC/20 with a Gauss rifle. Large Lasers/LPL were worthless i'm specifically referring to the period of time when the closed beta played like a game straight out of the 3025 timeline, before the arrival of DHS where it was detrimental to alpha anything that wasn't a small laser and even then, you'd still had trouble managing your heat. so basically between april through october? the game was also significantly slower since it required hundreds of hours to unlock just a few of the skills from the pilot skill tree and there was absolutely no quirks. not to mention nobody was deathballing, builds were subpar, the netcode heavily favored north americans on the east coast and there were 4 less mechs to focus you down within seconds. it wasn't perfect, but it was amazingly fun and felt like a sim. DHS just made everybody die that much faster, naturally teepo fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 19:56
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I like the game when it was worse
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Mar 2, 2016 20:00
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Honestly that was a problem in TT as well. Anything IS using 3050 tech is better than its equivalent weight in 3025 tech, flat out, and anything Clan is better than IS 3050. I've said it a thousand times before, but in TT that was somewhat useful for creating actual challenges for the players in a GM'd campaign. If you just wanted to gently caress around and play a one off match you either stuck to the same tech for both sides or handicapped one side's tonnage. See also why the new BT game is being put in the 3025 era. It's just so much less of a headache.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:00
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A Curvy Goonette posted:turn on your monitor idiot. lmao, see you in the funny papers. This is probably the most man-childish come-back I have ever seen on the internet. Short of a twelve-year-old claiming to have hosed my mom, of course.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:17
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Anita Dickinme posted:This is probably the most man-childish come-back I have ever seen on the internet. Your mom had a come-back last night
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Mar 2, 2016 20:20
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Whelp, I quit playing when ghost heat first came in. Came back to kill time before The Division came out. Guess I'll see you guys in another 3 years.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:28
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Goodbye, whomever you are.
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Mar 2, 2016 20:32
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I mean PGI is pretty bad but there is a non-zero chance they won't mess this up and there's not much information on how it'll work yet so idk the last major thing they did was bring brawling back and that worked out OK?
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Mar 2, 2016 20:38
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All we really have to go by is Russ's apparent vision for how he wants it to work out, and I think it's fine for folks to go "no thanks" at that
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Mar 2, 2016 20:41
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EoRaptor posted:Tabletop was deliberately designed to avoid 'aim' as part of gameplay, with primary system of dice rolls to control hit location, and a whole slew of sub-systems (criticals, speed modifiers, etc) to force players to rely on composition and positioning as their keys to victory. Game should have had aim bloom from the beginning, fire more weapons = more aim bloom and different weapons could do more or less bloom so brawling range weapons would have almost none and sniping weapons could have more, it even fits with the lore and everything. But paul/russ have already said "no aim bloom ever!". Personally I've been taking a break waiting for 4v4 to come out. I've bought all the mechs I want and have like 6 seismic and 2 target dep so I don't really need much unless some new mech becomes available for cbills so just time to wait and see how this all pans out. I have very little hope though based off all the lying surrounding the helios debacle. Washout fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 20:55
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Anita Dickinme posted:This is probably the most man-childish come-back I have ever seen on the internet. wow good for you, you want an award?
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Mar 2, 2016 21:21
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A Curvy Goonette posted:wow good for you, you want an award? I bet his mom wants an award. I wish they would provide a better roadmap view of what is coming. I have a hard time deciphering Russ's 'vision for the future' against what is actually going to be delivered. It's like some hand waving ahead of the diagnosis of terminal cancer and you have months to live.
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Mar 2, 2016 21:30
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Pattonesque posted:I mean PGI is pretty bad but there is a non-zero chance they won't mess this up and there's not much information on how it'll work yet so idk They also gave us Polar Highlands, which is even less brawl-friendly than Alpine Peaks. Oh Snapple! posted:All we really have to go by is Russ's apparent vision for how he wants it to work out, and I think it's fine for folks to go "no thanks" at that PGI hasn't earned much in the way of trust, and are traditionally very close-mouthed about fundamental gameplay changes until the very last moment. I wouldn't be surprised if we get no more details about the new system beyond what Russ has already mentioned, nor would I be surprised if the new system ends up being something completely different entirely and this talk about energy limits never actually appears as a system in the game. Besides, it's one thing for Russ to say "Hey, I want to increase time to kill and reduce the focus on big alpha strikes (and, by extrapolation, peek and poke gameplay)". The problem is that Ghost Heat 2.0, based on the bits that we're hearing about it, isn't going to be any more effective than Ghost Heat 1.0 was, because fundamentally it's simply doubling down on Ghost Heat which itself didn't really work. Having an "energy meter" that all weapons contribute to is actually worse; it means there aren't separate heat groups and potentially every weapon, including those that don't actually have ghost heat right now, contributes equally. It'll just be another arbitrary limitation on the maximum number of weapons that can be fired at once that we'll have to track, making it no different in practice than Ghost Heat 1.0. We're also assuming, by the way, that the "energy meter" being discussed is an upper limit on fired weapons, instead of a resource that needs to recharge. If we assume that Russ actually wants people to run bracket builds, a recharging resource seems a lot more likely and would gently caress over brawling builds at least as much, if not more, than the peek and poke laser alpha.
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Mar 2, 2016 21:48
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Who in the gently caress cares what some people who are TERRIBLE at their own game, think that they should do? gently caress, they do. gently caress.
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Mar 2, 2016 21:52
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teepo posted:i'm specifically referring to the period of time when the closed beta played like a game straight out of the 3025 timeline, before the arrival of DHS where it was detrimental to alpha anything that wasn't a small laser and even then, you'd still had trouble managing your heat. so basically between april through october? Uh everyone deathballed with Brawesomes and Lunchbacks almost throughout the entirety of the closed beta, Alpha strikes were absolutely king. DHS weren't even around when that was a thing. You're longing for the halcyon days of something that never existed except maybe the first tentative weeks of the closed beta when no one had a goddamn clue
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Mar 2, 2016 22:03
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