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Baronjutter posted:Any debate or derail on "atheism" is always stupid, but I've always thought if you don't believe in god(s) you're an atheist and there's nothing more to it, even if some other people who fit that same label are really really loving stupid. I don't see how anyone in this thread could possibly label them selves as leftist or progressive or even socialist after some of the incredibly stupid things people who also label them selves those things have said or done. drat, my campus socialist group said something really dumb and wrong about corporate GMO's, and a socialist on reddit mentioned the friend zone, guess I gotta stop calling my self a socialist. I mean I'm fine with people calling them selves what ever what ever they want, I just think it's silly some silly old racist scientists and some people on reddit is enough to shame people out of using a fairly neutral and accurate term. That's fair, but expecting a certain amount of rigor behind people's beliefs is kind of central to the idea of skepticism, which (supposedly) informs athiesm; abandoning that aspect of it for gut feeling and anti-establishment tendency due to whatever externalities is what informs a lot of the reddit type athiests - and I can understand an unwillingness to associate with the behavior or pronouncements of those kind of groups - even if you happen to share some common tenets.
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Mar 3, 2016 06:07
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Frosted Flake posted:This is the same kind of thinking that lead to two girls dying of cancer because their parents felt their culture wasn't being respected. At some point you have to put your health, and that of your relatives first. Oh my god it's not. Please stop.
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Mar 3, 2016 06:25
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This derail is worse than anything swagger, CI or PT6A have ever done please make it stop. 
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Mar 3, 2016 06:56
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I'm kinda entertained tbqh
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Mar 3, 2016 06:59
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Cultural Imperial posted:I'm kinda entertained tbqh I see you have finally given in on the weed debate because you clearly are high.
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Mar 3, 2016 07:07
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My understanding of integrating Native spirituality into hospital care is that it helps in allowing First Nations people to feel supported, comfortable, and able to heal. It is not intended to replace or supplant actual, factual medical care, but to provide emotional and spiritual support so that they can better access and accept said care. And we should pay for it, if for no other reason than it's much cheaper to treat a patient before their condition deteriorates because they've been refusing to have it treated. I started out thinking that all alternative medicine was completely useless and should be wiped off the Earth; I was an evidence-based nazi for quite some time. Experience has taught me, however, that the most effective treatment is one that the patient will actually accept. It doesn't make a drat bit of difference if a certain medication has excellent RCTs or if a new procedure is the subject of a glowing editorial in CMAJ; it is functionally useless if a patient does not trust in their providers enough to take their advice. There isn't any evidence I've seen that traditional Aboriginal healing practices have any positive effect on outcomes by themselves, but I could certainly believe that you'd see overall better outcomes in a centre which provided for its patients' beliefs in combination with the best in evidence-based medicine. Incidentally, I still find homeopathy and naturopathy and chiropractic risible and would never recommend them to anyone (although there is some evidence for mild benefit in low back pain for chiropractic but STAY AWAY FROM THE NECK gently caress NO) - I'm not sure why I'm still so much more opposed to them than Native healing practices. Maybe because Treaty 6 land wasn't stolen from European quacks. Edit: sorry for continuing the derail but I was busy at work convincing people to accept Western medicine :P
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Mar 3, 2016 07:19
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Holy poo poo man, words like risible and evidence based I guess that worked out real well for makayla sault
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Mar 3, 2016 07:41
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PT6A posted:Well... yes, partially. I went to McGill. We were allowed to write exams in French if we chose. It's a loving retarded policy. That's exactly what I was talking about. Is it? Plenty of francophone unis let students write exams in English.
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Mar 3, 2016 08:11
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Albino Squirrel posted:My understanding of integrating Native spirituality into hospital care is that it helps in allowing First Nations people to feel supported, comfortable, and able to heal. It is not intended to replace or supplant actual, factual medical care, but to provide emotional and spiritual support so that they can better access and accept said care. And we should pay for it, if for no other reason than it's much cheaper to treat a patient before their condition deteriorates because they've been refusing to have it treated. I disagree because *throws a dead child on the table*
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Mar 3, 2016 08:37
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Nobody likes the guy who comes in and says, matter of fact, "hahha, wooooooow, this is SO STUPID, I mean, could you believe this?" when they, themselves, immediately have no knowledge of this thing they've decided to throw on the table. Left or right.
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Mar 3, 2016 10:56
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CanPol Megathread: I hate to say it but your views on Roman Gaul are hilariously revisionist
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Mar 3, 2016 12:24
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Tighclops posted:CanPol Megathread: I hate to say it but your views on Roman Gaul are hilariously revisionist I wasn't wrong, give it 500 years and you could paint Nazi Germany, Maoist China and Stalinst USSR with the exact same loving brushes. Little hard to do now when there are still people with serial numbers tattoo'd on their arms.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:49
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Pinterest Mom posted:Is it? Plenty of francophone unis let students write exams in English. Oh, okay. Well, that's retarded too.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:52
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Why? The purpose of an exam is to test your mastery of the subject matter, not the language in which the course is being taught. People learning in a second language are already disadvantaged and having to work harder during the learning process. We should make the examination process as straightforward as possible. The truth is that in Quebec some program are only going to be offered in one or the other language. I wish schools could offer exams in all kinds of different languages.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:48
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Furnaceface posted:I see you have finally given in on the weed debate because you clearly are high. CanPol Megathread: Weed takes the pain away. Albino Squirrel, you'll love this: last week the local CBC noon show had a neonatal care phone-in question show. The "expert" they had on? A naturopath. No mention of nosodes or other anti-vaxxer child-killing practices, but I was still in a bad mood for the rest of the afternoon. gently caress traditional white person healing.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:51
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PT6A posted:Oh, okay. Well, that's retarded too. I did my graduate degree at McGill and marked a lot of exams in French. Students who wanted to try to bluff their way out of not knowing the answer by answering in French were caught and failed, as appropriate. Most had the same mediocre answers that support most Bs and Cs, some were outstanding. Just like all other students. (I now evaluate scholarship applications in both languages FWIW.) Since this is a bilingual country and students will be able to conduct their lives in whatever language suits them (as long as it is either French or English), why not let them answer in the language they are most comfortable in?
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Mar 3, 2016 16:55
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Jordan7hm posted:Why? If the course is given in a certain language, then the exam should be written in that language out of fairness. Otherwise, in the absence of a perfectly bilingual exam marker, you're introducing a whole other source of unfairness since there could be an issue with translations. Universities should be allowed to offer courses in whatever language(s) they choose, but once in a course, students should not have an option as to what language to do the work in.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:56
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Tighclops posted:CanPol Megathread: I hate to say it but your views on Roman Gaul are hilariously revisionist I'll own that. I study Late Antiquity - my views on Vandalic Africa are surprisingly nuanced.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:58
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Bilirubin posted:Since this is a bilingual country and students will be able to conduct their lives in whatever language suits them (as long as it is either French or English), why not let them answer in the language they are most comfortable in? If they are more comfortable in French, and wish to do coursework and exams in French, why wouldn't they go to a French university? If I made the decision to enrol at a French university, why should I be allowed to write exams in English? I made my choice to do coursework in French by enrolling at a French-language university.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:58
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PT6A posted:Otherwise, in the absence of a perfectly bilingual exam marker, OK I found the problem with your assumptions on this matter.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:58
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Jordan7hm posted:Why? For non-multiple choice exams, don't forget someone's got to mark all those exams who's reasonably fluent in said language/is also reasonably familiar with the course material. I mean for French/Engish this might be feasible, especially in Quebec. But like outside of there? I doubt it. Unless you're thinking like, have a big batch of translators translate exams into the language of the person marking it first then still having the same person mark all of them? Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 16:58
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Bilirubin posted:OK I found the problem with your assumptions on this matter. So, all the markers are fully bilingual? In a case where all markers are fully bilingual, to avoid any difference in treatment between students, I find it more acceptable. I highly doubt this is always the case, though, considering a lot of the TAs I ran across in university barely had a good grip on one official language, much less both of them.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:02
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PT6A posted:If they are more comfortable in French, and wish to do coursework and exams in French, why wouldn't they go to a French university? If I made the decision to enrol at a French university, why should I be allowed to write exams in English? I made my choice to do coursework in French by enrolling at a French-language university. Because McGill is higher ranked than any Francophone university, and practical reality is that professional life in North America requires working knowledge of English. :dunno:
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Mar 3, 2016 17:02
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CanPol: [ 0 ] days since last derail Onto more important news quote:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-ezra-levant-law-society-hearing-1.3472199?cmp=rss
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Mar 3, 2016 17:04
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Bilirubin posted:Because McGill is higher ranked than any Francophone university, and practical reality is that professional life in North America requires working knowledge of English. :dunno: Oh? So having a degree from a university that teaches in a certain language demonstrates a certain level of proficiency in that language... Well then: there's yet another reason why exams should be written only in the language of the course itself.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:06
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PT6A posted:So, all the markers are fully bilingual? In a case where all markers are fully bilingual, to avoid any difference in treatment between students, I find it more acceptable. I highly doubt this is always the case, though, considering a lot of the TAs I ran across in university barely had a good grip on one official language, much less both of them. Jesus Christ if none of the TAs were able to mark them they would get kicked to the Prof, and there are plentiful translational services on campus starting with every receptionist on campus who HAS to be bilingual. Fairness is utmost, hell its why students are allowed to answer in French in the first place. But that never happened in my experience because in the current generation every anglo kid I met from Quebec, who make up a large percentage of the student body, was perfectly fluent in French. Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 17:09
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The incoming head of Ottawa U has made statements to the effect of wishing it was a French university. 
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Mar 3, 2016 17:09
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PT6A posted:Oh? So having a degree from a university that teaches in a certain language demonstrates a certain level of proficiency in that language... I agree, if we are talking about a language certification program. Most Francophone students I know went there because McGill's research is more globally focused, or there was a researcher there they wanted to work with, wanted the career boost of the prestige, and also wanted to get better at English.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:11
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Bilirubin posted:Jesus Christ if none of the TAs were able to mark them they would get kicked to the Prof, and there are plentiful translational services on campus starting with every receptionist on campus who HAS to be bilingual. Fairness is utmost, hell its why students are allowed to answer in French in the first place. It's not fair to let students answer in French. It would not be fair for me to go to a French, or Spanish, or Chinese university and demand to be allowed to do coursework in English. That's insane and stupid. Do you think that third-party translation by people who are fluent in both languages but have no particular experience in translation, or possibly the specialized subject at hand, is going to be completely fair? How do subtle mistakes in one language get translated, especially in cases where ambiguity exists?
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Mar 3, 2016 17:13
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It's hilarious how angry you are about the tiniest most stupid language thing. Quebec universities have been allowing people to answer exams in both languages for decades. Because most of the people there speak both languages. Nobody there gives a poo poo about it. Sorry for your lesser cultured, uni-lingual university experiences I guess.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:18
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PT6A, nothing you say leads me to believe you've ever worked in the back end of a university. Something like bilingual marking/language assistance happens at all (decent) universities. In Western Canada most universities this falls under disability assistance. Umanitoba cross-lists some courses with Universite St. Boniface, URegina has a College Francais and so on. It's especially important now that we have lots of international students from the Francophonie countries and that's a group where Canada can actually make a difference. How the gently caress can we be from a similar background yet you've not developed an ounce of empathy for anyone unlike yourself?
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Mar 3, 2016 17:26
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Frosted Flake posted:The incoming head of Ottawa U has made statements to the effect of wishing it was a French university. That's not a new opinion, even when I was there in 2006/2007 they already wanted it to be a fully French university.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:29
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Yes, insisting that people write exams in the language of the course itself is "[having] not developed an ounce of empathy."  I am bilingual, and if I attended a university in my second language, I would not expect to be allowed to use English for anything. It's not a matter of empathy, it's a matter of reality. Should universities help students who are studying in a second language? OF COURSE! I just think it should stop well short of being able to do coursework in their first language. I do agree, based on available evidence, that being a Francophone is worthy of classification as a disability 
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Mar 3, 2016 17:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGgaI-BcI4 Swap PT6A for Daniel Stern and bilingualism for VCR programming.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:50
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What does the ridiculously low audio bitrate represent?
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Mar 3, 2016 17:52
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jm20 posted:CanPol: [ 0 ] days since last derail If the alternative was to let him stay a lawyer and read his "journalism" every time someone called him what he was, I'd let him out too.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:54
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sliderule posted:What does the ridiculously low audio bitrate represent? They are talking about VCRs after all. The 1990s were a simpler time. A better time.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:54
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Can we at least derail on something more interesting than the arcane details of university test administration? Maybe CI can air his opinions on Kurdish Trannies or something?
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Mar 3, 2016 17:58
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There's no harm in allowing people to be tested in an official language. Yes, Quebec has traditional Anglo universities that now allow testing in French, but they also allow testing in English. It's not much different than official forms being allowed in both languages.
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Mar 3, 2016 18:07
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Thought this was a nice quote from Kasparov Kasparov posted:"I'm enjoying the irony of American Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism and what it really means! Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there. In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism. Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely. But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd."
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Mar 3, 2016 18:09
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