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Without out of pockets maximums my family would be out $300000, of course that would involve bankruptcy. The total bill for the delivery of my son and associated costs for my wife was $88k. One night in NICU was $20k of that. The past to winters my son was admitted to the hospital with complications from RSV and HMPV both those 6 day stay were $100k each. We hope we are out of the woods on that now. Koirhor fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 11:36
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god bless america
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Mar 3, 2016 11:41
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Harik posted:To put it bluntly, you're the idiot here. If he gets sick and has healthcare, he may go bankrupt but at least he will get the care he needs first. A bank isn't going to give you a 6 figure loan to pay off hospital fees and if he can't pay the hospital will kick him out unless there's an urgent life-threatening condition. Also he'll get out of debt much sooner if he only owes 30% or so of that six-figure bill.
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Mar 3, 2016 12:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:I don't think they would do this because it effectively guarantees that they couldn't win the Presidency. Of course they would lose, but if they can give "true conservatives" an option, they can build for 2020. As they are now (tied to the gop), they have to say poo poo like Paul Ryan when he said Trump is terrible but Ryan would still support the nominee. Trump wants to be the leader of the party? Let him. He's been threatening a third party run? Beat him to it. The GOP is already a garbage fire. If they magically out-maneuver Trump and wrestle control away from him, congratulations they have their toxic party back and they'll be shut out of the White House for a long time. Anything else is a lovely half measure. Ooh, attack him on his taxes or his rhetoric or any of the hundred other things he's already swatted away. Ooh, let's burn another $100 million in ads, that have already shown to be thoroughly ineffective. Their only serious chance to take control and unify the #nevertrump people is to start a new party. I'll be interested to see what Romney says today, but if it's just another lecture from the GOPe, no fucks will be given, they'll look like children, and Trump will be the Republican standard bearer.
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Mar 3, 2016 12:32
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Harik posted:To put it bluntly, you're the idiot here. Isn't that the point of out of pocket maximums? You're aware those are a thing, right?
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Mar 3, 2016 13:04
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Scott Forstall posted:Of course they would lose, but if they can give "true conservatives" an option, they can build for 2020. As they are now (tied to the gop), they have to say poo poo like Paul Ryan when he said Trump is terrible but Ryan would still support the nominee. god i hope this happens.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:08
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Filthy Hans posted:If he gets sick and has healthcare, he may go bankrupt but at least he will get the care he needs first. A bank isn't going to give you a 6 figure loan to pay off hospital fees and if he can't pay the hospital will kick him out unless there's an urgent life-threatening condition. Also he'll get out of debt much sooner if he only owes 30% or so of that six-figure bill. loving 'Muricah. Land of the Eagle.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:17
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Scott Forstall posted:Of course they would lose, but if they can give "true conservatives" an option, they can build for 2020. As they are now (tied to the gop), they have to say poo poo like Paul Ryan when he said Trump is terrible but Ryan would still support the nominee. It'd be a stunning reversal if their desperation for the White House drove the GOP to accelerationism. Reverse accelerationism?
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Mar 3, 2016 13:30
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ohgodwhat posted:Isn't that the point of out of pocket maximums? You're aware those are a thing, right? Yes, even with very high co-insurance, out-of-pocket maximums remain positively tiny compared to the full cost of being seriously injured or sick in bronze plans.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:34
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Fojar38 posted:I am pretty sure we are at the point where there would be riots if Obamacare was repealed. There weren't riots after Flint and if there were anything that I would have put to "storming the governor's mansion to take out the bastard" I'd have bet poisoning an entire city for ideological reasons would be it
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Mar 3, 2016 13:41
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I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I think we've lost the old US History thread. What was Barry Goldwater's platform that was so ... extremist or purely ideological?
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Mar 3, 2016 13:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I think we've lost the old US History thread. States' rights once again being used to greenlight horrific racism.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:49
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'Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice' - Goldwater He wasn't wrong. Fried Chicken posted:There weren't riots after Flint and if there were anything that I would have put to "storming the governor's mansion to take out the bastard" I'd have bet poisoning an entire city for ideological reasons would be it Television is a helluva drug.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:50
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Boon posted:The word I've heard is that he needs to win both Ohio and Florida to destroy the best laid plans of mice and men Not exactly. He needs to lose Texas (check) Ohio, and Florida to be mathematically blocked from the nomination by convention. If he splits those he can still hit the total number needed, though it will be tougher. If he loses both then there is no clear winner and bring on the floor chaos Fun fact: HuffPo is reporting leaks from the Trump campaign that Donald doesn't understand the delegate system even after they've explained it a few times. So he just decided to win everything and let that sort it out, instead of chasing some "lane" theory and delegate strategy.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:52
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Fried Chicken posted:Not exactly. He needs to lose Texas (check) Ohio, and Florida to be mathematically blocked from the nomination by convention. If he splits those he can still hit the total number needed, though it will be tougher. If he loses both then there is no clear winner and bring on the floor chaos I don't see how he loses it now. He's so far ahead in Florida it would be incredible if he lost there. I can see losing Ohio to Kasich but, otherwise, he's going to do as well or better than he did on Super Tuesday everywhere else. The South was Cruz's one and only chance and he didn't get it done.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:57
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ohgodwhat posted:Isn't that the point of out of pocket maximums? You're aware those are a thing, right? Allow me introduce you to the assfucking tag-team of "out of network charges" and "balance billing". Example- you go to the ER and need emergency surgery. Turns out despite your hospital being in network the anesthesiologist and his assistant aren't (in some areas they almost never are) and they bill you for $95k. Your insurance says the plan allowable charge is $15k with 50% copayment but great news that exceeds your yearly max so you only owe $5k and they cut a $10k check to the anesthesiologist. He thanks you, cashes the insurance check and your $5k check, and then promptly demands you pay the remaining $80k.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:00
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radical meme posted:I don't see how he loses it now. He's so far ahead in Florida it would be incredible if he lost there. I can see losing Ohio to Kasich but, otherwise, he's going to do as well or better than he did on Super Tuesday everywhere else. The South was Cruz's one and only chance and he didn't get it done. There is something special about months of Rubio whining that everyone else needs to drop out and give him the nomination ("because I want it, give it to me") only to have him be the one guy who can't win his home state and blows the firewall to stop Trump. His "victory speech" in VA was basically him crying about how Kasich's voters should have gone to him and let him win the speech and it was Kasich's fault he lost; and weeks now of doing the same to Cruz; and he's going to be the one of the three who turns out to be the least useful. That stereotype of "participation trophies" and "entitlement generation" conservatives have about millennials is basically Rubio to a T
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Mar 3, 2016 14:03
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Chomp8645 posted:I'm the person the ACA relies on. I'm a healthy, 28 year old male in decent shape with no red flag family histories (and a liberal minded person at that), and I don't give flying gently caress if the ACA collapses because it's no use to me. Healthcare simply costs too much. Even the most basic option would cost about 10% of my raw income, before I've paid rent or anything, and it still sucks. If it was just that 10% and then I never had to worry, then yeah I guess I could find a way to budget it if I really had to. But its 10% and I'm still hosed if anything terrible happens because the coverage is atrocious. The copays are obscene, and I have to pay at least half on basically everything. I can't siphon 10% of my paycheck before any expenses whatsoever and then still fork over many thousands of dollars in an emergency. I haven't had any insurance since the ACA was passed and I won't this year either. The penalty is paltry by comparison. Original Medicare has no out of pocket limit, and 20% coinsurance, and copays. Lengthy hospitalizations can be ruinous, too.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:07
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Shifty Pony posted:Allow me introduce you to the assfucking tag-team of "out of network charges" and "balance billing". Yup! Went bankrupt to clear all the medical debt out. My out of pocket maximum is supposed to be $4500. I was receiving bills for an extra $45k. And that's with "good insurance" through work. Anyone who parrots the line about how young people don't get health coverage because they think they'll never need it has never actually had to use theirs.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:10
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Fried Chicken posted:There is something special about months of Rubio whining that everyone else needs to drop out and give him the nomination ("because I want it, give it to me") only to have him be the one guy who can't win his home state and blows the firewall to stop Trump. pretty much. while JEB!! expected an easy win, he at least didnt act like baby about it. rubio is just an angry kid.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:21
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Harik posted:Yup! Went bankrupt to clear all the medical debt out. My out of pocket maximum is supposed to be $4500. I was receiving bills for an extra $45k. How the gently caress is that legal. I thought the whole point of the ACA was to keep people from having the exact situation.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:pretty much. while JEB!! expected an easy win, he at least didnt act like baby about it. rubio is just an angry kid. Jeb had such a great attitude. He managed to mock himself constantly.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:34
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the moose posted:How the gently caress is that legal. I thought the whole point of the ACA was to keep people from having the exact situation. Because HAHAHAHAHAHA joke's on you if you think insurance companies are going to look out for you!
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Mar 3, 2016 14:41
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Can we get a CPAC thread? I'm a big circus fan
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Mar 3, 2016 14:47
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Harik posted:To put it bluntly, you're the idiot here. This is literally my job. I know what the coverage is, I deal with it on a daily basis. It's a goddamn nightmare in a lot of ways, but I do know what I'm talking about. And you're missing several critical points - for starters the out of pocket maximums (that others pointed out) are a pretty big deal. There's also that by simply having the insurance you're paying the carrier negotiated rate which is half to a tenth of what you get without coverage - it'll often be saving you that cost on its own, even if you don't hit the deductible. Even those massive numbers you're talking about are laughable compared to what an uninsured person would be paying in the same situation. I mean, Christ, my last drop-in at the doctor involved an x-ray to check for a broken bone - I paid $20 and the uninsured cost would have been $70. Didn't clear my deductible but I was drat happy to pay a quarter of what I would have otherwise. I'm sorry to see you got stung by poo poo coverage, and I'll be the first to admit that the overall health care system is really loving broken. But you're complaining to the guy in the rescue boat that the dam broke - and you're encouraging other people to get hosed worse than you were. But some people also insist the Earth is flat and that gravity's a conspiracy.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:48
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the moose posted:How the gently caress is that legal. I thought the whole point of the ACA was to keep people from having the exact situation. The whole point of the ACA is to make sure insurance companies still make insane profits.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:48
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the moose posted:How the gently caress is that legal. I thought the whole point of the ACA was to keep people from having the exact situation. Because the ACA, despite being better than what America had before, is still a system that relies heavily on private insurance companies, and private insurance companies never stopped being huge dickheads. Literally the only way to make America's healthcare system stop having these awful anecdotal stories about people being bankrupted is to stop making medical insurance a for-profit business and insure everyone under some kind of tax-funded universal healthcare system, and the only way to accomplish that would be by defeating the single largest lobbying campaign in the history of the country, which would be waged by health insurance companies trying to protect their insane profits.
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Mar 3, 2016 14:52
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No but how is it legal to bill someone for 6x what experts have determined is a reasonable maximum without them explicitly consenting to your rates? And in the case of an anaesthetist helping with emergency surgery, when do you secure that consent? Before the operation when they are clearly under duress and possibly delirious with pain? Or after, while they are under the influence of powerful opiates? Edit: like, I saw my dad's condition on drugs in the hospital before he had his major surgery and anyone who thinks that a person in that condition can consent to anything is either ignorant or a con artist. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 15:10
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Jimbozig posted:No but how is it legal to bill someone for 6x what experts have determined is a reasonable maximum without them explicitly consenting to your rates? Do note that a public option/single payer health care system would not intrinsically avoid these same issues. We know this to be true as well, since Medicare Part D is a thing. The problem regarding insurance in our current system is that insurers are not incentivized to minimize costs at the consumer level. For a lot of procedures, they do negotiate a lower price. For the really expensive ones, they just drop coverage. The problem with costs is the assholes at the hospitals, not the insurance companies specifically. computer parts fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 15:22
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Frankly the problem is that people are poor.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:29
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Frankly the problem is that people are poor. The ultimate economic disruption
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Mar 3, 2016 15:30
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Jimbozig posted:No but how is it legal to bill someone for 6x what experts have determined is a reasonable maximum without them explicitly consenting to your rates? And in the case of an anaesthetist helping with emergency surgery, when do you secure that consent? Before the operation when they are clearly under duress and possibly delirious with pain? Or after, while they are under the influence of powerful opiates? Because gently caress you that's why. Our profits are worth more than your sorry, pathetic, sick self.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:33
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The insane thing about Trump's health care plan is that it is far and away better than the rest of the GOP's by virtue of point 7 allowing foreign imports of drugs and cost negotiation; and his general opposition to the McCarran-Ferguson Act Once again it is the rare flash of truth amidst the giant pile of bullshit
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Mar 3, 2016 15:34
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Is there a TV IV thread for CPAC? I tuned in just in time to see Scott Walker exit to "Enter Sandman."
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Mar 3, 2016 15:38
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the moose posted:How the gently caress is that legal. I thought the whole point of the ACA was to keep people from having the exact situation. A solution integrating existing skullfuckers is not going to help anyone. At least Title 11 still works.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:39
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Frankly the problem is that people are poor. Not really, a bill for over $200,000 would humble even the upper-middle class pretty readily. I'm rather thankful for my fantastic insurance. (By the by, go with a not-for-profit company kids, they're better than the alternative) My son was an emergency 2 month premature C-Section 11 days before our Insurance effective date, so we had the joy of paying both deductibles of $2,000. That hurt. But it felt fan-goddamn-tastic when I saw the bill on my summary of benefits after his month and a half stay in the NICU. Instead of paying a good $80,000 for him, plus the surgery, plus the anesthesiologist, etc. We paid about $1,500 on top of the deductible in copays. Without that insurance, my son would likely not have survived.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:39
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https://twitter.com/jonathanhsinger/status/705398978787954688 It was dead even two weeks ago. Interested to see if this is just poll disagreement or if public opinion is actually shifting on this.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:43
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Kro-Bar posted:Is there a TV IV thread for CPAC? I tuned in just in time to see Scott Walker exit to "Enter Sandman." https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3766681&perpage=40 Edit: "ISIS is present in all 50 states" - Joni Ernst
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Mar 3, 2016 15:53
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Fried Chicken posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3766681&perpage=40 Thanks; I always forget to look in YCS.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:59
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Heh, the rats are fleeing the ship: Isn't this giving up the game a bit much? They pretend to just report the news, and we pretend to accept that fiction. Taken as an admission they were actively pushing Rubio, doesn't this all go kinda fucky or is that all OK post Citizens United?
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