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Sharzak posted:Split Up Lizardmen vs Skaven is boring, is what I'm saying. They need to find a way to link up Lustria and the old world or else they might as well be in their own game. There's nothing that says they have to do the world as one a single contiguous map. Instead they could just go the Empire route, and split it into several separate smaller maps that are linked through certain naval travel nodes. The way it worked there was that you just sent your ships to a certain spot at the edge of one map, and one turn later they'd pop up in the other map, usually reasonably close to the shore. So you could still have a full-sized lizardmen continent, without them having to spend 10+turns on the high seas to get anywhere else.
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Mar 3, 2016 08:08
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Sharzak posted:Split Up Lizardmen vs Skaven is boring, is what I'm saying. They need to find a way to link up Lustria and the old world or else they might as well be in their own game. If I remember correctly there are supposed to be High Elf outposts on the coast of Lustria, that Vampire pirate thing mentioned earlier, and Estalian colonies on Lustria. So it wouldn't be entirely Lizards vs Rats. And an expansion to include the New World should surely include Naggaroth and the Dark Elves as well as the Lizardmen. Washout posted:You shut your whore mouth, chaos dwarves are loving awesome and I will be jumping for joy if they get added to this game. Oh, and if I was CA I would be including this. When expanding out of the Old World just take whatever tiny excuse you can to add some variety to it, because the rest of the world isn't even close to as fleshed out as the Old World is, but you need some variety for a game. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 11:58
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Sharzak posted:I still am dying to know how they plan on incorporating the Lizardmen into the map. they'll either put Lustria really,c really close to the Old World leaving an awkwardly little amount of room for the Elves, or they won't bother making a whole continent for the Lizardmen and Skaven to fight over and will give them an outpost or something on the main continent. Most of the Warhammer world is essentially terra incognita as far as lore detail is concerned. My guess is that Ulthuan, Lustria and Naggaroth will be their own separate maps that ships can travel between. Khemri will be its own map to the south with land connections to the main map and the Dark Lands + Mountains of Morn will be their own map with connections also. We might even see an underground map linking up the Skaven Under Empire, Dwarf holds and Gobbo lairs though I doubt it. e: I'm pretty sure the Slaan can open up portals to go wherever they want so they don't even need ships.
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Mar 3, 2016 13:56
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Dwarfen campaign gameplay video just went up. I love the way they're making The Book work. 
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Mar 3, 2016 15:17
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Good video, I like the Book of Grudges mechanic, simple but effective way of generating missions based on your individual experiencies in the campaign rather than being scripted.
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Mar 3, 2016 15:41
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Wait, isn't that how everyone plays the game anyway? I mean, just because I invaded your land and conquered everywhere doesn't mean you need to sack some minor village of mine. That was rude, I will chase you down to the ends of the earth, through fire and snow!
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Mar 3, 2016 17:03
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Having Orcs pop up with no warning next to your undefended cities looks like it's going to be fun
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Mar 3, 2016 17:12
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Angry Lobster posted:Good video, I like the Book of Grudges mechanic, simple but effective way of generating missions based on your individual experiencies in the campaign rather than being scripted. Same here, and it's nice to have actual mechanical benefits to playing the game as one normally would, as Kaza pointed out 
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Mar 3, 2016 17:15
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Sharzak posted:Having Orcs pop up with no warning next to your undefended cities looks like it's going to be fun I don't think "no warning" is quite right. Underway travel is still visible on the map, you just have to treat mountains as imperfect barriers. If you have an orc stronghold on the other side of a mountain from a village, that village is on the front lines
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Mar 3, 2016 17:15
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Are they ever gonnna stop with boring as hell +5 armour tech upgrades 
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Mar 3, 2016 17:21
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hemale in pain posted:Are they ever gonnna stop with boring as hell +5 armour tech upgrades This is total war. The strategic layer is tacked on and nobody gives a gently caress about it BUT LOOK AT THE BATTLE ANIMATIONS GUYS! ARROW TRAILS!
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Mar 3, 2016 17:36
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Ok, so what is Trollhammer torpedo and what is its use on tabletop? I'm asking because the name sound awesome, and the idea of having massively armoured dwarfs wielding rocket launcher while the enemy dudes run around with sticks and swords sound rad. (Please tell me that Trollhammer torpedo is fantasy steampunk rocket launcher)
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Mar 3, 2016 17:43
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Lt. Lizard posted:(Please tell me that Trollhammer torpedo is fantasy steampunk rocket launcher) Yes 
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Mar 3, 2016 17:48
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....and the actual rocket is in shape of a fist.  Welp, that settles it. I'm playing dwarfs first.
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Mar 3, 2016 17:51
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Lt. Lizard posted:....and the actual rocket is in shape of a fist. It's actually a solid hunk of metal shaped like a fist. With a chain to reel it back in and fire again. Not quite a rocket launcher, more like a man-portable harpoon cannon. That's what the regular model is, too. Magni fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 17:58
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Hahahahahahaha what. That was definitely not in the dwarven army book when I played last. Dwarves
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Mar 3, 2016 17:59
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Sorry, looks like that's a custom modification, the standard GW model has a more standard looking harpoon attachment: Still, Irondrakes get to pick between carrying flamethrowers or literal cannons. E: and for the person asking how they're used in tabletop, you use them to delete units. Honest to God Ctrl+Alt+Del them from the battlefield. Use flamethrowers on infantry and cannons on monsters/heroes to make them go poof. Triskelli fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 17:59
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Oh my gosh, that is loving amazing. Can't wait to see those fuckers in action.
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Mar 3, 2016 18:04
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Goddamn that is awesome. Dwarves look like they'll be fun as hell, and really strong. I really cannot wait to see what they've done with Vampire Counts.
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Mar 3, 2016 18:08
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Magni posted:Dwarfen campaign gameplay video just went up. Goddamn does this game look good and the best use of the Warhammer license.
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Mar 3, 2016 18:15
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:Goddamn that is awesome. Dwarves look like they'll be fun as hell, and really strong. I really cannot wait to see what they've done with Vampire Counts. Just a reminder that Dwarfs completely ignore cavalry in their armies. As in, they have zero cavalry unless you count their gyros or miners ("beasts fer ridin'?! It'll never catch on!") and they have zero pikemen. It's not a problem for light cavalry as even Dwarf Crossbowmen can fight them in melee, but I wonder how they'll deal with some of the heavy and superheavy cavalry that's out there.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:07
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Triskelli posted:Just a reminder that Dwarfs completely ignore cavalry in their armies. As in, they have zero cavalry unless you count their gyros or miners ("beasts fer ridin'?! It'll never catch on!") and they have zero pikemen. It's not a problem for light cavalry as even Dwarf Crossbowmen can fight them in melee, but I wonder how they'll deal with some of the heavy and superheavy cavalry that's out there. They have the heaviest infantry, and tons of guns. I think they'll do fine.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:13
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Triskelli posted:Just a reminder that Dwarfs completely ignore cavalry in their armies. As in, they have zero cavalry unless you count their gyros or miners ("beasts fer ridin'?! It'll never catch on!") and they have zero pikemen. It's not a problem for light cavalry as even Dwarf Crossbowmen can fight them in melee, but I wonder how they'll deal with some of the heavy and superheavy cavalry that's out there.  > HorsesIf you watch the gameplay video from awhile back with Dwarves vs. a night goblin army, it shows the Irondrakes in action. Their range is painfully short compared to archers, but they're true to the tabletop "point at enemy unit, CTRL ALT DEL." Even minimal sustained fire was deleting swathes of goblins and routing units basically instantaneously. They're also fairly heavily armored, so they ate a charge from goblin light cav, and survived long enough for help to reach them. e: TBH dwarves should get a light cavalry option that is a ranger with a longrifle riding on the shoulders of a slayer. 2 SPOOKY fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 19:17
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2 SPOOKY posted:
Yeah I hope they make IronDrakes expensive as gently caress but super effective against literally everything since you are essentially importing Vietnam era flamers and giving everybody in a platoon one for volley fire purposes.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:21
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I thought I was gonna play greenskins first but dwarves have a really weird allure about them
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Mar 3, 2016 19:25
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Irondrakes seem like a logical way to counter cav too, as well as being Dwarven as gently caress. Conceptually, they'd be magnificent flank-defenders versus charges I figure.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:29
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Rakthar posted:People have pointed out that Warhammer factions have like 1/2 to 1/3 the units of Rome 2 / Attila factions. I have a feeling Unit Variety will be an issue pretty much from the getgo, let's see what happens. Unit count is less important than true variety and balance. People largely acknowledge that Shogun 2 had the best balance and therefore most interesting MP tactical battles, with less overall units available. R2 suffers badly from having several units that are functionally identical...you could cull Rome's roster by 30% and not feel the lack.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:34
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Ammanas posted:Unit count is less important than true variety and balance. People largely acknowledge that Shogun 2 had the best balance and therefore most interesting MP tactical battles, with less overall units available. R2 suffers badly from having several units that are functionally identical...you could cull Rome's roster by 30% and not feel the lack. Not an empty quote
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Mar 3, 2016 19:38
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Ammanas posted:Unit count is less important than true variety and balance. People largely acknowledge that Shogun 2 had the best balance and therefore most interesting MP tactical battles, with less overall units available. R2 suffers badly from having several units that are functionally identical...you could cull Rome's roster by 30% and not feel the lack. Nonsense! My Praetorian, First Cohort, Veteran Legionaire and Legionaire all fulfill distinct and unique roles!
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Mar 3, 2016 19:38
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All I want is a unit of warrior priests that smite enemies
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Mar 3, 2016 19:43
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Ammanas posted:Unit count is less important than true variety and balance. People largely acknowledge that Shogun 2 had the best balance and therefore most interesting MP tactical battles, with less overall units available. R2 suffers badly from having several units that are functionally identical...you could cull Rome's roster by 30% and not feel the lack. Yes as you point out, CA managed to waste that unit variety by managing to make them indistinguishable from each other. On the other hand the amount of units (14-18) CA announced for Warhammer should concern you with some of these rosters, when you consider that has to include a few basic troop options, you can be left with some fairly similar looking armies within a roster. I would imagine especially in the early game, as they pointed out with that one campaign battle.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:44
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Phi230 posted:All I want is a unit of warrior priests that smite enemies Grail pilgrims. Dirty peasants who fight monsters by bludgeoning them with the bones of a dead knight.
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Mar 3, 2016 20:00
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Rakthar posted:Yes as you point out, CA managed to waste that unit variety by managing to make them indistinguishable from each other. On the other hand the amount of units (14-18) CA announced for Warhammer should concern you with some of these rosters, when you consider that has to include a few basic troop options, you can be left with some fairly similar looking armies within a roster. I would imagine especially in the early game, as they pointed out with that one campaign battle. Not only are unit sizes completely making GBS threads on the WHFB lore but CA is nixing like 50% of any given faction's unit rosters. Not to mention they're limiting unit sizes probably because they're still using the poo poo autoresolve engine where numbers are everything so every faction must be the same for auto-resolve to work at all. How loving hard is it to copy TT models 1:1. They don't need to design anything new, just get GW to send a handful of every miniature available and just get the modelers to make those for the game. You've got 30 year old unit roster for every faction right at your fingertips. Plus they've even got stats that they could use as guidelines to make for the game itself. Here again begins the cycle where TW Warhammer comes out, its got loving retarded AI and works only 25% of the time, with the other 75% being a buggy mess of a game. Fast forward 2 years we've finally got patches and 100$ of DLC to make the game whole, but its still poo poo because of CA's poor design decisions so you've gotta wait for a balance megamod to come out to make the game resemble something worthy of WHFB. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 20:10
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They've got all the units I can really think of being necessary for the factions. What is being left out that would be needed?
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Mar 3, 2016 20:13
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Phi230 posted:All I want is a unit of warrior priests that smite enemies Empire Warrior Priests are going to be campaign agents and battlefield hero characters afaik. Some chance you're gonna see Flagellants (read: Batshit insane THE END IS NIGH! fanatics that go to battle with two-handed flails and nothing beyond a shirt for armor).
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Mar 3, 2016 20:13
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Dandywalken posted:They've got all the units I can really think of being necessary for the factions. What is being left out that would be needed? For example specifically The Empire has none of the Knightly Orders which are incredibly badass. No Order of The Blazing Sun, Knights Encarmine, or Knights of Morr Right now the rosters are missing the units that give each faction the classic personality they're associated with in Fantasy. Also I loving hope we see Flagellants but of course they'll either be ignored or locked behind DLC
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Mar 3, 2016 20:15
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If you want to understand the difference between Rome 2 rosters and Warhammer, this video will explain like what it means in terms of troop diversity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvZkp7Ac07U Let's leave aside the argument of whether that will be "enough" troops or not, we'll find that out shortly when we play the game. Let's just observe that there's a lot less units in Warhammer, which may be fine, and it may be a problem. That video just describes how it might be a problem. [edit]Rome in Rome 2: 40+ units WRE in Attila: 30+ units Empire in Warhammer: 18 units Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 20:18
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Phi230 posted:For example specifically The Empire has none of the Knightly Orders which are incredibly badass. No Order of The Blazing Sun, Knights Encarmine, or Knights of Morr So Rome 2's unit pool was smaller than it looked because a lot of units were functionally near-identical (I don't disagree with this), but Warhammer's Empire roster would be improved by adding four different colours of knights? 
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Mar 3, 2016 20:20
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Phi230 posted:For example specifically The Empire has none of the Knightly Orders which are incredibly badass. No Order of The Blazing Sun, Knights Encarmine, or Knights of Morr i dont think the game needs like 5 units of different types of knights
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Mar 3, 2016 20:21
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peer posted:So Rome 2's unit pool was smaller than it looked because a lot of units were functionally near-identical (I don't disagree with this), but Warhammer's Empire roster would be improved by adding four different colours of knights? There is a difference between 40 units, 30 units, and 20 units, yeah? Like, too much unit bloat can be bad, but not enough units can be bad too? Or you can't follow that reasoning?
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Mar 3, 2016 20:23
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