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That video is bullshit. He basically got the faction with by far the most units in both games and compared them to the faction with the least in warhammer. Go compare the amount of units Parthia has for example to Greenskins or Chaos if people are worried about how many units there are. And in any case, the diversity in each faction is god drat nuts now and every unit has a clear purpose. You guys have already covered that bit though so I won't repeat it in detail.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:29
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For the love of God, people, it's FEWER units, not less.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:29
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Krazyface posted:For the love of God, people, it's FEWER units, not less. This guy is just the goodest
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Mar 3, 2016 22:31
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Krazyface posted:For the love of God, people, it's FEWER units, not less.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:37
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Krazyface posted:For the love of SIGMAR, people, it's FEWER units, not less.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:49
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I know I said it during/after my Man O War post but I would rather see CA dip into the older Brettonian stuff and pull out more late medieval armies and sensible units rather than purely KNIGHTS KNIGHTS KNIGHTS. Stuff like these very attractive and serviceable Men At Arms, having Knights choose to fight dismounted, or controversially some Hundred Years War cannons.
Triskelli fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 22:53
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Krazyface posted:For the love of God, people, it's FEWER units, not less. Your lack of proper punctuation in past posts betrays you as a casual grammar nazi at best Triskelli posted:I know I said it during/after my Man O War post but I would rather see CA dip into the older Brettonian stuff and pull out more late medieval armies and sensible units rather than purely KNIGHTS KNIGHTS KNIGHTS. Stuff like these very attractive and serviceable Men At Arms, having Knights choose to fight dismounted, or controversially some Hundred Years War cannons. They got rid of Men at Arms in later editions? What! That's pretty lame, those models had a lot of character.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:03
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No, the sixth edition book still had Men at Arms.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:07
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How do they compare to empire line infantry like spearmen? Same stat line or worse WS?
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Mar 3, 2016 23:11
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Sharzak posted:That would be amazing but isn't it literally just Lizardmen over there with Skaven in the tunnels? I don't think there are even any Orcs on that side of the world and no undead, humans, or elves either. aaah nooo its bad take it away
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Mar 3, 2016 23:22
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Dandywalken posted:How do they compare to empire line infantry like spearmen? Same stat line or worse WS? Terrible stats but really your only tarpit option as Brets; and they're not even great at that until you take a special item.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:22
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Worse WS, BS, and Leadership. Woops, actually Bretonnian men-at-arms are also professional soldiers, it's just that their lord treats them like dogshit in every respect so they're highly unmotivated and poorly trained. Lassitude fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 3, 2016 |
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Mar 3, 2016 23:26
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Any units in this game the wield warhammers? Warhammer looks light on the warhammers. I think all we have in total is... - Warrior Priests are hammer fans - Maybe some dwarfs use em??? - Karl Franz has a fancy magic hammer I'm pretty sure That's all I got.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:32
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Chaos warriors have blunt weapons for their models, including two-handed warhammers. Also yeah, dwarfs have a unit called "hammerers". Guess what they use.
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Mar 3, 2016 23:39
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The dwarfs only have two choices in weapons, axes and hammers.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:03
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Angry Lobster posted:The dwarfs only have two choices in weapons, axes and hammers. Three. 
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Mar 4, 2016 00:04
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Axes are just hammers that cut.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:06
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Chomp8645 posted:- Karl Franz has a fancy magic hammer I'm pretty sure The hammer on the front cover of most (all?) the editions, Ghal Maraz, aka Sigmar's Hammer. Basically Warhammer mjollnir.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:08
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Knights of the White Wolf too.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:16
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Man I'm actually really bummed out I missed unit variety chat because lol if you think Games Workshop army books have more units then can be fit on a single sheet of paper. Most of that is going to be various "boss" characters, too.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:17
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As long as there are a lot of different face and armor/weapon combinations in each unit i won't really mind. It's the clones that annoy me.
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Mar 4, 2016 00:52
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Gamerofthegame posted:Man I'm actually really bummed out I missed unit variety chat because lol if you think Games Workshop army books have more units then can be fit on a single sheet of paper. In my experience almost all Warhammer fantasy rosters consisted of: Core Units: Trash Melee infantry you arm with spears if you can and take a large unit of because the rules say you have to/to act as a tarpit to stick the opponents scary knights of doom in all game. Trash Ranged infantry which may be worth taking in armies which are good at shooting. Trash cavalry which depending on the faction you will never take or will take the smallest unit you can make of them to misdirect enemy charges. In some editions these were worth taking but more because the rules say you need a certain number of trash units rather than because you want to. Special Units: Elite infantry, will often have the word "Guard" in its name. Some factions have multiple versions of this with varying degrees of usefulness. Elite Ranged troops, sometimes worth taking if your army is good at shooting. Expensive knights of doom, probably more expensive than is worthwhile, in some editions the game revolves around getting your expensive knights into the enemy units as fast as possible Chariot pulled by horses Rare Units: Centerpiece monster, may or may not be mounted by a hero Ranged warmachine(s) (cannons, bolt throwers, catapults etc.) Chariot pulled by not-horses Skirmisher unit, generally fairly pointless but can be involved in some pretty fun tactics that vary from clever to abusive. Weird but cool gimmicky thing of debatable value that looks cool Even more expensive knights of doom Heroes: Lower level combat guy hero Lower level wizard type hero Lower level weird faction gimmick hero Lords: Higher level combat guy hero Higher level wizard hero Higher level weird faction hero A selection of special characters most of which are strictly worse than the generic versions but some of which are overpowered and carry whole strategies.
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Mar 4, 2016 01:20
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I'm fine with fewer unit types per faction as long as there aren't individual population caps. Playing Rome 2 as Sparta and running out of Hoplites halfway across Iran was not a fun position to be in. Oh yeah and my only non-mercenary cavalry were Tarantines.
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Mar 4, 2016 01:38
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In regards to the lack of units, didn't CA say they were adding to the rosters that have been posted, and then leaked some videos of units that aren't in the game yet? I can't find where they said that but I did find the videos of the Empire bright wizard and Orc rock lobba, neither of which are in the official unit lists. Maybe we'll be getting more dudes to smash into other dudes? Maybe they'll be extra dlc for TW Centre to bitch about? Maybe they decided not to include them after all?  https://www.instagram.com/p/BAVTkO3L2_C/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BBFnnehL2wz/
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Mar 4, 2016 01:47
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Can anyone explain the "Legal" relation between Sylvania and the Empire? How did the former come to become capable of self-declared independence etc. Or have I misunderstood their relations politically?
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Mar 4, 2016 02:27
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About knightly orders: the Lexicanum claims that different orders have bonuses against different enemies, like the Knights Panther hate mutants, the Knights of the Fiery Heart hate goblinoids and Knights of Morr the Undead. One possible way to implement them would be to have them be available as mercenary-type troops if they player are fighting their preferred enemy. For example, if they player is attacking a VC army/settlement, a detachment of K.o. Morr will be available to add to your force and they will get attack bonuses fighting the undead.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:38
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Phi230 posted:
I don't know anyone who immediately thinks knightly orders when the Empire is mentioned. It's usually puffy sleeves and steam tanks.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:39
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Nash posted:I don't know anyone who immediately thinks knightly orders when the Empire is mentioned. It's usually puffy sleeves and steam tanks. I do, but I played them before they had anything steam powered, so way back all they had was cannons, flagelents, some lovely gunners, and then as much heavy cav as you could possibly fit.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:48
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Dandywalken posted:Can anyone explain the "Legal" relation between Sylvania and the Empire? How did the former come to become capable of self-declared independence etc. Or have I misunderstood their relations politically? Sylvania is a county in the province of Stirland. It is technically a part of the Empire, but it has been ruled by the Von Carstein bloodline of vampires for centuries. Prior to the Von Carsteins, the county was ruled by ruthless (human) despots, but Vlad von Carstein wed the daughter of the last human lord of Sylvania, so technically rulership of the county fell to him. People were unaware he was a vampire, so the greater Empire didn't really notice/care about what was going on in the lovely backwater county of a lovely province like Stirland. Eventually Vlad decided he wanted to rule over the entire Empire, and so with his bros (he turned his wife and many rulers of the important noble families of Sylvania into vampires) he raised an army of both living and undead soldiers and marched against Altdorf. He lost and died, and so did his progeny who've tried the same thing subsequently, but ultimately the province remains vampire-controlled. This is for two reasons: 1) there are a lot of vampires, at least one in pretty much every noble house in the county, so it's basically impossible to root them out, and 2) the province itself is a festering shitheap where the dead spontaneously rise and is generally not worth the effort of totally purging because it's of very little value to anyone living. For the most part Syvlania just sits there for decades/centuries and nobody cares. The vampires keep to themselves, the native Sylvanians are cool with having vampire rulers for the most part (vampires don't need to kill when they feed, and in fact people are keen to give their blood in the hopes of getting a reward/being shown some favour), and things just kind of hum along until some wacky vampire decides it's time to try and rule the Empire again. That said, when that occurs the Empire ends up pushing the Vampire Counts back into Sylvania and pacify the province for another few decades or century.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:56
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Or a dude with a whip shows up and things get crazy.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:58
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Dandywalken posted:Can anyone explain the "Legal" relation between Sylvania and the Empire? How did the former come to become capable of self-declared independence etc. Or have I misunderstood their relations politically? Basically, Sylvania was just a (comparably lovely) region of the Empire. Then some guy named Vlad von Carstein came around, married the daughter of the local lord and eventually became the new lord. Fast forward a few decades and it's all but an open secret that there's something seriously wrong about him and his bethrothed, what with them not having aged a day etc. But everyone really important just kinda looks the other way because Sylvania is a backwater shithole and because he's actually running the place competently, holds up law and order, doesn't demand too much from the peasants and pays his taxes on time (and less important people looking into it have a habit of vanishing mysteriously). So why rock the boat? Should be noted that the Empire was in a period of intense internal powerplays and rivalries at the time anyway, so everyone amongst the nobility had plenty of other poo poo to do anyway. And then one night he massacres the remaining human nobility of Sylvania during a ball he hosts, comes out to the walls of his castle, summons up a gigantic army of undead and declares his intention to become the next Emperor (and de facto abolish the whole elective monarchy thing - because Emperor is a lifetime appointment and he's not planning to die, ever). Que a new spin being put on the traditional imperial pasttime of having a fuckhuge civil war, with Vlad eventually getting done in by a bit of treachery amongst his vampire underlings and the Grand Theogonist of Sigmar suicide-tackling him off the walls of Altdorf right into the trench filled with sharpened stakes in front of it. Fast forward past another two Vampire Wars started by Vlad's successors Konrad and Mannfred (none of which made came even remoely as close to winning as Vlad), mostly made possible because nobody really wanted to actually own (and hence be responsible for) the place and Sylvania ultimately ends up pro forma annexed by neighbouring Stirland, but still remains a blighted shithole and horrorshow de facto ruled by vampires and necromancers that persist despite the odd old-fashioned purges and witchhunts. Magni fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 03:02
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The big joke with Vlad is he honestly didn't do anything the other claimants for the throne weren't doing at the time aside from 'Be a vampire' and 'Use necromancy'. He was an ambitious noble who wanted to be Emperor and that time was called the Time of Three Emperors for a reason.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:05
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Lassitude posted:Sylvania is a county in the province of Stirland. It is technically a part of the Empire, but it has been ruled by the Von Carstein bloodline of vampires for centuries. Prior to the Von Carsteins, the county was ruled by ruthless (human) despots, but Vlad von Carstein wed the daughter of the last human lord of Sylvania, so technically rulership of the county fell to him. People were unaware he was a vampire, so the greater Empire didn't really notice/care about what was going on in the lovely backwater county of a lovely province like Stirland. Sylvania used to be an independent province of The Empire, but was absorbed into Stirland after the last Vampire War. At the time The Empire was in the middle of the Three Emperors period (basically a long-running civil war) who had joined forces to defeat the Vampires, and the Count of Stirland, one of the Emperors, claimed Sylvania as his after the last battle. The other two didn't dispute it, partially because the trio that beat Vlad started fighting each other which allowed the Vampires to rebuild rapidly, and partially because Sylvania is such a shithole they believed it would lead to his downfall.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:09
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He was a pretty cool ruler too apparently. The VCs are overall not nearly as bad as you'd think they'd be. They keep taxes low, they pay people to build castles and stuff for them, and they're usually content to just hang out in the castles and read books and go to parties. I'd vote for Vlad over Trump.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:10
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So I just realized warhammer tabletop players are going to be this games twcenter posters. Insufferable, persistently unhappy with how CA implemented their version of 'history'...meanwhile like 75% of dudes just want a solid strat/tactical game 
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Mar 4, 2016 03:16
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Eh, depends. Vlad was pretty much a Dr. Doom-style benevolent-and-competent-but-ruthless tyrant. By comaprison, Mannfred is just a scheming rear end in a top hat and Konrad... well, Konrad had a special rule in the TT called "One Bat Short of a Bellfry". That should really tell you all you need to know about him. 
Magni fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 03:16
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Lassitude posted:He was a pretty cool ruler too apparently. The VCs are overall not nearly as bad as you'd think they'd be. They keep taxes low, they pay people to build castles and stuff for them, and they're usually content to just hang out in the castles and read books and go to parties. I'd vote for Vlad over Trump. Vlad was a fairly decent ruler by the standards of the Empire. Konrad was batshit-bonkers (he killed his mother for the crime of giving birth to him without his permission) and Mannfred could give Skaven lessons in backstabbing (in The End Times, he literally dooms the world because he cannot resist backstabbing his allies who are trying to save it). The other Counts are rarely much better, seeing the people as little more then cattle.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:17
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Ammanas posted:So I just realized warhammer tabletop players are going to be this games twcenter posters. Insufferable, persistently unhappy with how CA implemented their version of 'history'...meanwhile like 75% of dudes just want a solid strat/tactical game Yeah I'm looking forward to reading some good grog when this game comes out
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Mar 4, 2016 03:22
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MadJackMcJack posted:Vlad was a fairly decent ruler by the standards of the Empire. Konrad was batshit-bonkers (he killed his mother for the crime of giving birth to him without his permission) and Mannfred could give Skaven lessons in backstabbing (in The End Times, he literally dooms the world because he cannot resist backstabbing his allies who are trying to save it). The other Counts are rarely much better, seeing the people as little more then cattle. But like a good cattle rancher they want their herd to be safe and placid. That's just fine.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:33
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The Bretonnians and Sylvanians both accuse each other of gross human rights violations regarding treatment of peasants. "Tu Quoque?" extravaganza ensues.
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Mar 4, 2016 03:36
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