|
I think something missing in this thread is the underestimation of the GOPe and R's in general inability to comprehend the idea that anyone would ever vote for Hillary, you can see it illustrated by how Cruz talked about her on Thursday. We're talking about 2012 unskewed polls level of reality disconnect here. Not that there isn't some truth to the idea that there are a fair amount of Dems who aren't excited about a second Clinton, or a "weathervane" or an establishment neo liberal or whatever but they have spent literally the past 25 years trying to convince the world she's a liberal Margret Thatcher and it's patently obvious to them she's completely unsuited for office.
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:35 |
|
|
He literally cannot be stopped and now he has a royal guard: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/03/04/glenn-beck-under-investigation-for-alleged-threat-against-trump/
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Anyone who refuses to vote because they were made fun of for refusing to vote is a jackass, and we're right to ignore their opinions - they will never have a say.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
RuanGacho posted:I think something missing in this thread is the underestimation of the GOPe and R's in general inability to comprehend the idea that anyone would ever vote for Hillary, you can see it illustrated by how Cruz talked about her on Thursday. It's interesting how much you see that here as well. I mean in reality Hillary is a popular Democratic candidate, but from this board you'd think she's a witch who's going to be indicted any time now and sent Civil Rights activists to smear other candidates. I guess in that light it's no wonder why some people are pledging to Trump.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:It's one thing to decide against devoting resources to court a particular demographic because you think those resources would be better spent elsewhere in terms of the number of votes you will pick up for your efforts. It's quite another to go out of your way to piss on their faces because you think they "deserve it" for whatever reason. That isn't how you win elections. Funny, this is the advice I give to leftists that complain more pragmatic people don't support their proposals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Ah yes, all 5000 people who bother to vote in primaries but then act like petulant children and refuse to vote in the general because their dumb candidate didn't win. Those people sure are worth paying attention to.  "People harbor severe reservations about my sacred cow?? They're going to be extremely reluctant to turn out?! gently caress 'em, we don't need their votes!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:It's one thing to decide against devoting resources to court a particular demographic because you think those resources would be better spent elsewhere in terms of the number of votes you will pick up for your efforts. It's quite another to go out of your way to piss on their faces because you think they "deserve it" for whatever reason. That isn't how you win elections. Well yeah. Frankly, the small number of people who vote for Bernie but would refuse to vote for Clinton because *reasons* are not rational actors, are likely not well informed or are idealistic to a fault, and represent an outsized money sink. There is very little difference in policy between the two and the opposition is so terrifying. Holding out in spite of that just means that the voters ideals aren't as aligned with Bernie as they pretend
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
I love how everyone is ignoring that one guy itt.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:It's one thing to decide against devoting resources to court a particular demographic because you think those resources would be better spent elsewhere in terms of the number of votes you will pick up for your efforts. It's quite another to go out of your way to piss on their faces because you think they "deserve it" for whatever reason. That isn't how you win elections. gently caress you, dude. I've been working to get young people my age voting since 2007 when i was 18 myself. I don't blame the people who can't vote because of restrictive laws and work schedules, they can't help that. but everyone who can vote and refuses deserves to be mocked. There's no defending that poo poo. No amount of pussy footing around and pretending their behavior is acceptable gets them to vote until they finally turn 37 or whatever and start voting. Cugel the Clever posted:
So yeah, you agree that they're worthless and should not be counted as potential voters to begin with. If they're going to refuse to vote because their latest meme candidate failed, how can they possibly be convinced to vote?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Rodenthar Drothman posted:I love how everyone is ignoring that one guy itt. Which guy?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
Capt. Sticl posted:Isn't Trump polling way ahead of them both in Florida? Why would you spend money defeating someone that is losing anyway? How can professional politicians and organizers be so incompetent at running campaigns? The more crushing the defeat for Rubio in Florida, the harder it becomes for him to justify staying in the race. Cruz somehow thinks he could take on Trump but the reality is that if Rubio drops then Kaisch is going to rush to grab as many Rubio supporters as possible as the 'voice of reason' (gently caress every last person who thinks this about him) and try to position himself as the sane choice if Trump can't get 50% of the delegates. Though after Kaisch loses Ohio hopefully he'll be pressured to get out as well. Yoshifan823 posted:If this election cycle ends with Mitt loving Romney as the Republican Nominee after all of this batshit insane stuff, I'm gonna be so mad. It's like ending your epic sci-fi novel with "and they lived happily ever after" right before the climactic battle. It's more like "and they lived happily ever after" is written after the massive bloodbath where one side ripped itself apart like a pack of rabid wolverines while the other side sat and watched in fascinated horror.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
fishmech posted:gently caress you, dude. I've been working to get young people my age voting since 2007 when i was 18 myself. I don't blame the people who can't vote because of restrictive laws and work schedules, they can't help that. but everyone who can vote and refuses deserves to be mocked. There's no defending that poo poo. quote:So yeah, you agree that they're worthless and should not be counted as potential voters to begin with. If they're going to refuse to vote because their latest meme candidate failed, how can they possibly be convinced to vote?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
computer parts posted:There's no evidence that their lack of voting is due to alienation, unless you're defining that term as something dumb. I'm not saying that you should piss away resources trying to court a demographic if you'd get better returns in terms of votes by putting those resources somewhere else (although, for fucks sake, it's not like we don't have a few politicians in office right now who enjoyed some considerable success due to youth turnout, and iirc youth turnout in the recent past is generally better than it has been historically even if it lags behind other age groups). Of course campaigns should spend resources efficiently and try to win. But pointlessly antagonizing would-be allies just seems loving stupid to me, and I don't get the animosity toward Sanders supporters in the USPOL threads. And sure, Internet message board and everything, but if you think making GBS threads on younger progressive Democrats for the gently caress of it is a fine idea and if you're representative of the Democratic party more broadly, then I think you should temper somewhat your expectation of future success, regardless of what a shitshow the GOP has become.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:Gods, no wonder the Dems have done terribly in the last few elections. I can only imagine the harm you've caused. They're not not voting as a personal affront to you, you autist. Some may genuinely not care, and others may feel that they can't make a difference, something people like you only reinforce. Ah yes, if only we didn't make fun of morons on online forums, there'd be more votes.  You've got a very strange sense of how the world works, dude. Something Awful posts do not control nationwide voting trends. And gently caress the concept that if only everyone ignored them not voting they'd start voting. That's bullshit.The factors are: they're just loving lazy. There's nothing to cater to, because they do not vote. And they all start voting much more as they get older. This pattern has been apparent for decades on end! Kilroy posted:
People who poo poo their pants because their meme candidate lost and vow to never vote for anyone else are not would-be allies. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:I'm not talking about now, I'm saying that if they aren't reliable voters now but they will eventually become such, then it's better for you if they keep some sort of affinity for your cause between now and the time when they would become reliable allies. The evidence shows that they don't care later in life (because they vote regularly), so either they forget about how much the parties annoy them, or there's some other confounding factor that makes them not vote. I'm going with the latter, personally.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
fishmech posted:No amount of pussy footing around and pretending their behavior is acceptable gets them to vote until they finally turn 37 or whatever and start voting. Also remember that while you may think you're only referring to a fraction of a percent of Sanders supporters when you talk poo poo here, nevertheless when you post "gently caress Bernie Bros, heh" or whatever, you alienate a lot more than just the real actual "Bernie Bros".
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Sigh. I'd believe FishMech's purely a troll had I not seen those exact arguments in real life. Enjoy narrowing your base!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
fishmech posted:People who poo poo their pants because their meme candidate lost and vow to never vote for anyone else are not would-be allies. Kilroy fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
computer parts posted:The evidence shows that they don't care later in life (because they vote regularly), so either they forget about how much the parties annoy them, or there's some other confounding factor that makes them not vote. I'm going with the latter, personally.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
El Disco posted:Which guy? Nonsense. Also, Re: current poo poo show itt- I really think people are getting worked up over potentially very few voters. People who won't vote in the general because their candidate didn't win the primary don't seem to be a particularly big demographic. People not voting for other reasons are seemingly much larger.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:Well, yes, they do vote more regularly. But, older voters are also more reliably conservative. Maybe try not to reinforce that? "Conservative" is a relative designation. In general, people don't say "well I was going to support the black guy but then some people said mean things so now I'm on the white supremacist party".
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:44
|
|
|
I'm sure catering to a small but vocal group of potential voters who only want things to go their way and if it doesn't they take their ball and go home is the winning strategy. Maybe we can call them the iced tea party 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:Sigh. I'd believe FishMech's purely a troll had I not seen those exact arguments in real life. Enjoy narrowing your base! You're not making very good arguments though and you're talking about a very small and irrational group. There's this crazy thing about irrational people, they cannot be reasoned with.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
computer parts posted:"Conservative" is a relative designation. It seems like you only want the voters who are well-informed, who research candidates, who can reason about their opinions and why they hold them, etc etc. And you're not alone, on the left. See, I just want to win elections, and frankly I don't give a drat if some of the people who support my cause do so for the stupidest reasons imaginable, because it still means my cause enjoys more support.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'm sure catering to a small but vocal group of potential voters who only want things to go their way and if it doesn't they take their ball and go home is the winning strategy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:That sort of thing is probably more common than you think. Actually it's probably not.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
oh okay. mods please update the d&d leaderboards accordingly
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
Boon posted:You're not making very good arguments though and you're talking about a very small and irrational group. Is any and all criticism or skepticism of Hillary Clinton irrational? All Killroy and I have said throughout this exchange is that Clinton supporters should avoid deliberately driving people away, and everyone is acting as if we're calling on you to move heaven and Earth to win them back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
Stop letting fishmech be right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Actually it's probably not. You might say "well, it doesn't make any loving difference" but it does. An unabashed white supremacist who knows what he is, is probably not going to come around. But someone who just votes like one sometimes out of fear or frustration might. Like I said before, I would agree that spending a lot of resources to target such voters is a waste of effort, but just blanket antagonizing them for no reason doesn't help matters, either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:Is any and all criticism or skepticism of Hillary Clinton irrational? All Killroy and I have said throughout this exchange is that Clinton supporters should avoid deliberately driving people away, and everyone is acting as if we're calling on you to move heaven and Earth to win them back. Same could be said of Sanders supporters...or pretty much any rabid supporter of any candidate, movement or cause. They usually don't do their side much good. See: PETA.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:Is any and all criticism or skepticism of Hillary Clinton irrational? All Killroy and I have said throughout this exchange is that Clinton supporters should avoid deliberately driving people away, and everyone is acting as if we're calling on you to move heaven and Earth to win them back. No, it's not. Deliberately not voting for Hillary in the general after voting for Bernie in the primary is irrational, however. Boon fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:Well, they may not say literally that and they may not think it, but some may vote as though they do, because not everyone is going reason about their opinions and what they stand for, and what their candidate stands for. Not enough to see the contradictions clearly, anyway. You'll have to point out historical examples of this. And no, white supremacists switching over to Republicans (and the black vote switching) doesn't count.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
DemeaninDemon posted:Stop letting fishmech be right. Fishmech is rarely technically wrong.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Same could be said of Sanders supporters...or pretty much any rabid supporter of any candidate, movement or cause. They usually don't do their side much good. See: PETA. Boon posted:No, it's not. Deliberately not voting for Hillary in the general after voting for Bernie in the primary is irrational, however. DemeaninDemon posted:Stop letting fishmech be right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Isn't it the case this campaign that Clinton's biggest donators have been George "Freeper Devil" Soros and pipe fitters? Haven't the Democrats only received like 1/10 of the unlimited donations that the GOP has? Where's this talk about Clinton being a wall Street money sponge coming from?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
Idiots on le reddit
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
I like how when people see "young people don't vote much" they conclude that obviously this is because they are lazy and apathetic and don't care and won't vote no matter what you do. Not like the civic minded older crowd! Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that there is basically never a candidate that advocates for youth interests with more than token gestures while older voters are constantly pandered to. No way. Causation versus correlation? What is that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Man I'm sure glad to see another Bernie slapfight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:35 |
|
|
Boon posted:No, it's not. Deliberately not voting for Hillary in the general after voting for Bernie in the primary is irrational, however. computer parts posted:You'll have to point out historical examples of this. And no, white supremacists switching over to Republicans (and the black vote switching) doesn't count.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2016 18:16
|
|