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WickedHate posted:And that's when I'll happily read Grayson and enjoy it for what it is. But limited resources and all, there's better stuff to spend my time on right this moment. You and me both. Red Nightwing just looks dumb to me.
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Mar 5, 2016 02:27
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CzarChasm posted:What, did Starfire make a deal with the devil so everyone would forget Nightwing's identity in exchange for their Its revealed that Spyral had a big Hypnos satellite in orbit, Dick is understandably irritated at Helena for that, but she says it was in case he ever wanted to go back to being Nightwing, they could make the population 'forget' he was ever unmasked and killed. Red Nightwing is the worst. Actually the worst is when they color his eyes red too. Ugh
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Mar 5, 2016 02:37
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WickedHate posted:And that's when I'll happily read Grayson and enjoy it for what it is. But limited resources and all, there's better stuff to spend my time on right this moment. Seriously, who thought red Nightwing was a good idea? You are totally missing out with Grayson though. It'll absolutely be worth your while when you get around to it.
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Mar 5, 2016 18:40
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Just read through Ultimates 3 and while this thread has told me it is awful I just wasn't prepared, it was mind blowing poo poo. I quite like the Scarlet Witch character but couldn't have given a toss when she died because it was all just rubbish. All the ultimates were worse than normal and I think it peaked with this: I don't know who thought any of this was a good idea it all happening because Wanda flirted with a robot? WTF?
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Mar 5, 2016 21:17
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Ultragonk posted:Just read through Ultimates 3 and while this thread has told me it is awful I just wasn't prepared, it was mind blowing poo poo. I quite like the Scarlet Witch character but couldn't have given a toss when she died because it was all just rubbish. All the ultimates were worse than normal and I think it peaked with this: How'd you feel about the Tony Stark sextape plot and Quicksilver and the Witch being kissing cousins?
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Mar 5, 2016 21:54
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Lightning Lord posted:How'd you feel about the Tony Stark sextape plot and Quicksilver and the Witch being kissing cousins? I didn't really care about the sextape part, I don't know where the comic was first released but it wouldn't surprise me to find that there had been a sextape released in real life around the time it was being written. I would have found it better if Stark had thought it all cool and commented on how good he looked in the vid rather than just being a bit of a sad, broken, alcoholic. They seemed to try and explain 'Witchsilver' away as being Quicksilver's attempt at keeping the world safe from Wanda because of her powers rather than them being in love he was just so protective that everyone thought they were banging. Which seems a bit strange if she's that dangerous you'd think Pietro would have said something to everyone else. Also I'm not sure if I'd buy Wasp as the leader of the group. Still a few more comics and I get to read Ultimatium! I've read the first two and a bit issues so I can't wait to read all of them and see what you guys
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Mar 5, 2016 22:07
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I know Ultimates 3 is garbage but that panel never fails to make me laugh. It's just so goddamn dark. Like I always expect the next panel to be Iron Man whirling around to go "holy poo poo Logan, really?"
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Mar 5, 2016 22:09
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Ultragonk posted:I didn't really care about the sextape part, I don't know where the comic was first released but it wouldn't surprise me to find that there had been a sextape released in real life around the time it was being written. I would have found it better if Stark had thought it all cool and commented on how good he looked in the vid rather than just being a bit of a sad, broken, alcoholic. The panels of Janet going on about how normal it is and Steves wrong for being disgusted are so wtf
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Mar 5, 2016 22:15
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bobkatt013 posted:The panels of Janet going on about how normal it is and Steves wrong for being disgusted are so wtf Cap suggesting that maybe Wanda could wear more than underwear or something and Quicksilver telling him to gently caress off. Oh and Valkyrie nearly getting raped by those two bad guys while she was unconscious. And realising she's that dorky 19 year old Pym slept with and suddenly has powers and bangs Thor. She's going to die soon.
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Mar 5, 2016 22:38
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Ultragonk posted:Still a few more comics and I get to read Ultimatum! I've read the first two and a bit issues so I can't wait to read all of them and see what you guys Write a trip report please.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:04
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CapnAndy posted:Ultimatum is so, so much worse than Ultimates 3. You're gonna suffer. Every page is worse than the last
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Mar 5, 2016 23:06
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Someone link to the Ultimatum edits! (were they on 4th Letter?)
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Mar 5, 2016 23:12
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CapnAndy posted:Ultimatum is so, so much worse than Ultimates 3. You're gonna suffer. I did what he is doing and read all the Ultimate Universe comics up to Ultimatum. I read Ultimatum, thought it was the stupidest garbage ever, and stopped reading Ultimate Universe comics. Is there anything of value after Ultimatum?
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Mar 5, 2016 23:53
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Spider-Man. The answer is always Spider-Man. I also liked Hickman's Ultimates, but opinions vary on that.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:55
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CapnAndy posted:Ultimatum is so, so much worse than Ultimates 3. You're gonna suffer. It's easily one of the top five worst comic series put out by Marvel that decade. Of course, if I put Ultimates 3 on the same list, I start to... make that a top ten, though. There have been a lot of really, really bad Marvel series when I think too hard about it.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:04
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Jordan7hm posted:I did what he is doing and read all the Ultimate Universe comics up to Ultimatum. I read Ultimatum, thought it was the stupidest garbage ever, and stopped reading Ultimate Universe comics. Yes. There is quite a bit of good stuff after Ultimatum. Ultimate Requiem Spider-Man (FF and X-Men are fine, but Spider-Man is a must read) Ultimate Comics Spider-Man 1-15, 150-160 Ultimate Avengers v1 1-6 (don't bother with the other 2 volumes or Ultimates) Ultimate Thor 1-4 Ultimate Doomsday Trilogy (Ultimate Enemy, Mystery, and Doom it's not the best story but it's worth reading) Ultimate Fallout 1-6 Ultimate Comics Hawkeye 1-4 Ultimate Comics Spider-Man (first Miles run) Ultimate Comics The Ultimates (Hickman's run) That takes you through Hunger/Cataclysm and what comes after which is skippable, except for Ultimate Spider-Man.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:06
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Gaz-L posted:Spider-Man. The answer is always Spider-Man. I think everyone liked Hickman's Ultimates, it's opinions that vary on everything after that. (Which I enjoyed but I know I'm in the minority there)
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Mar 6, 2016 00:06
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TwoPair posted:I think everyone liked Hickman's Ultimates, it's opinions that vary on everything after that. (Which I enjoyed but I know I'm in the minority there) The stuff that happened in Hickman's ultimates is related to stuff in New Avengers.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:19
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bobkatt013 posted:The stuff that happened in Hickman's ultimates is related to stuff in New Avengers. Pfff.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:21
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X-O posted:Yes. There is quite a bit of good stuff after Ultimatum. Awesome, thanks! I think part of what put me off was the idea that if I didn't read it all I wouldn't understand what was going on (similar to how confused I used to get reading 616 books with all the drat event stuff). Since then I've read a lot of 616 books despite at the time not having a clue what the events were, and it isn't all that bad, so I guess I can give Ultimate books another try. Ultimatum was so so so bad though.
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Mar 6, 2016 03:27
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I did a micro review of pretty much everything in the Ultimate Universe in the last Ultimate thread but it may have slipped into the archive by now. I'm definitely biased in that I like the Ultimate Universe much more than most people (I owned every single trade and then water damage from a caved in roof caused me to buy all the trades a second time) but I can definitely tell you what's a good read and what's not and what's necessary or not. I would guess at this point I've read through most of the entire line maybe 4 complete times.
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Mar 6, 2016 03:42
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TwoPair posted:I know Ultimates 3 is garbage but that panel never fails to make me laugh. It's just so goddamn dark. Like I always expect the next panel to be Iron Man whirling around to go "holy poo poo Logan, really?" Honestly, I love that panel so much, because (Ultimate) Wolverine being a total prick just feels so right, and it's such a perfect and absolutely reprehensible comeback that it's hilarious.
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Mar 6, 2016 04:07
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I liked All-New Ultimates because I'm a huge Michel Fiffe fan. It helps that Giannis Milonogiannis drew the back end.
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Mar 6, 2016 05:51
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Jordan7hm posted:Is there anything of value after Ultimatum? The one positive thing you can say about Ultimatum is that the Ultimate Universe was absolutely in a complete narrative rut of "hey remember that character/storyline you really liked? Here it is again with a slightly different coat of paint, come back next time for Ultimate Another Thing You Liked". Ultimatum not only knocked it out of the rut, it put it in a place where it could never again go back into the rut, where it'd have to tell new stories. And that's great! Unfortunately it did it in the worst possible way and the place they ended up meant that all the stories were going to be somewhat terrible because the well was irretrievably poisoned and the Ultimate Universe could do nothing but die slowly as a result. I would have loved to see the alternate version where Ultimatum is just Dr. Doom showing up on an apeshit rampage that ends with half the bodycount (and they die properly heroic deaths) and the entire Northeast just wrecked, then there's a five year timeskip and the remaining issues are a tour of the new status quo while all the new teams finish up the war that happened completely off-screen with Ultimate AIM or something.
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Mar 6, 2016 06:21
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Ultragonk posted:Cap suggesting that maybe Wanda could wear more than underwear or something and Quicksilver telling him to gently caress off. One of those 2 bad guys was Pyro who had only been portrayed as a hero in the Ultimate universe up until that issue and was actually one of the better Ultimate reinventions before Loeb decided to make him an evil rapist and member of the Brotherhood for no reason. It really felt like both Loeb and Joe Mad weren't even aware of what the Ultimate Universe was when they wrote it as most characters appearances, allegiances and personalities were completely different than what was portrayed before, and many of the characters were in their 616 costumes.
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Mar 6, 2016 06:22
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CapnAndy posted:I honestly thought Ultimate X-Men got pretty interesting. Never well written enough to be good, but there was a story there. Yeah, I kinda liked the Brian Wood run, it wasn't great, but it kept me at least curious to see where he'd take it next. It mostly just seems to meander to a conclusion, unfortunately, and a lot of story branches just die. But it was interesting.
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Mar 6, 2016 07:17
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, I kinda liked the Brian Wood run, it wasn't great, but it kept me at least curious to see where he'd take it next. It mostly just seems to meander to a conclusion, unfortunately, and a lot of story branches just die. But it was interesting. It had the fatal flaw of being written by Brian Wood though.
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Mar 6, 2016 07:41
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I just finished Ultimate Fantastic Four/X-Men Annual #1 and Ultimate X-Men/Fantastic Four Annual #1 which were a bit odd and has now set me up for Ultimatum. I'm using a reading list I found on some site and it has this order for Ultimatium:quote:Ultimatum #1 Which should make for a good break between awful comics. I read the bits I read of Ultimatium years ago so I don't remember that much about it. It's going to be 'fun' and I'm "going in"
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Mar 6, 2016 09:46
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I once attempted to read the whole Ultimate line all the way through (using a reading order I found online). I didn't get as far as Ultimates 3 or Ultimatum - it was actually Robert Kirkman's Ultimate X-Men that put me off. As I've said before, it's remarkable how that comic in particular just jumps off a cliff in terms of quality at that point - there isn't a steady decline or anything, it's just fine for one issue then drops the next. (I kept on with Spider-Man and some others.)
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Mar 6, 2016 14:50
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Wheat Loaf posted:I once attempted to read the whole Ultimate line all the way through (using a reading order I found online). I didn't get as far as Ultimates 3 or Ultimatum - it was actually Robert Kirkman's Ultimate X-Men that put me off. As I've said before, it's remarkable how that comic in particular just jumps off a cliff in terms of quality at that point - there isn't a steady decline or anything, it's just fine for one issue then drops the next. I've liked most of what I have read. Parts of X-Men have been a bit brutal and difficult (I mean Rogue asking if they would not break her arms and legs again?!?) but mostly X-Men, Spider-Man and Ultimatum have been really enjoyable and stuff like Ultimate War and Ultimate Secret have been good. The Annuals have been interchangeable in quality while stuff like Ultimate Daredevil and Ultimate Ironman have been poor and forgettable.
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Mar 6, 2016 16:00
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Lightning Lord posted:It had the fatal flaw of being written by Brian Wood though. This was riiight before the accusations of harassment came up, IIRC. But yes, it's something that might color the run in retrospect.
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Mar 6, 2016 18:08
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Well I did it, I managed to make my way through ultimatiumCapnAndy posted:Ultimatum is so, so much worse than Ultimates 3. You're gonna suffer. I did suffer a bit I like the idea of Magneto deciding that he is going to wipeout humanity. He hates humanity, hates other mutants and since the death of his children probably hates himself so bang he shits all over the world. But some of the poo poo before the wave, why is Pym wearing the Yellowjacket costume? I doubt anyone tried to bring back the Hitler mustache in 1946, and Dazzler saying she has a harder time passing as human because of a couple of piercings and tats than someone with wings. And Xavier knew Magneto had thought of doing something like this? Why does he never communicate the important stuff? And it seemed like he warned Magneto that he was sending people against him which I dunno he hates everyone I guess. And yes, we get it, Valkyrie and Thor are loving. Got through the second issue and holy christ it's like some sort of fevered dream. I don't know if it's because I'm old or this forum has prejudiced me against this book but everything hurt. Ironman takes Cap. to get him help but goes through the window Captain America first! And did I miss a storyline where Danvers gets massive implants? I mean good on her making sure she can't drown but they have got to cause some lower back problems. And Pym threatening to kill Hawkeye after he says he'd help look for Jan, classic rear end in a top hat Pym. Though there was a bright spark where Doom just calls Reed a loving idiot baby who has no clue what's going on, I love this Doom. Welp Valkyrie died sooner than I expected, she seemed like a character that was created to be killed off but I thought it would be a while later. I guess with the world going to total poo poo Thor didn't have anything to do. And holy poo poo that page, why is Blob there? How did he get there? Shouldn't he be with Magneto or in the savage land or something? Why is he suddenly a cannibal? Why the gently caress would he think that now is a good time for a snack? I can see him rushing to New York to try and find his daughter but to stop off a chow down on Wasp? I'm not so sure. I quite like the Wasp character but after Ultimates 3 they can all die and I wouldn't care. And yeah Magneto killing Xavier? Whatever, we all know Xavier is faking his own death. Part 3 and they've done a good job wiping the board clean of mutants, mostly all dead and I really don't care goodbye Emma et al. Oh and the Scarlet Witch, scantily clad draping herself all over her father. Well zombie daughter/genocidal father incest is one hell of a niche. Oh well an army of replicating suicide bombers not bad but I am confused if one of those copies wants to kill Magneto why don't the rest of them, they seem all happy to run around doing what he wants. Oh good more Blob, Giant Man, Wasp stuff, oh well Blobs dead I really don't understand any of this, you could have just had Wasp drown, I hear they don't do well in water anyway and Giant Man goes off the deep end. Oh Beast is dead why the hell did they bring him back in the first place that seems like a lot of effort for a couple of issues. And ha ha Angel saying Cyclops doesn't understand loss does he know who Scott is going out with? Oh hey Storm is here! I kinda forgot about her I wonder if she's upset about Beast? Why would we need to see her reacting to that? Angel reacted to Dazzler, Jean to Xavier but you know, gently caress Storm's relationship I guess and it’s a real pity that Nightcrawler’s power wasn’t teleportation or something like that, could have come in handy. I wish they had done Thor/Cap. v the Evil Dead in a different comic seems out of place here and one of them has to stay and wait we don't know if Captain America is dead? And anyway he is supposed to be a bit of a Christian isn't he? I don't know why he'd go to the afterlife of the vikings anyway. And loving hell, Pym could have swatted those bomber copies away with one of his huge hands but instead he lets them climb all over him then walks away, that's so loving stupid he could have kicked them away, he could have grabbed something off the building and used it like a hockey stick and slapped them all away. For someone so intelligent he dumb. Onto issue 4 and wow, this has actually started to feel like work rather than a fun time. And loving Dormammu is here excellent now for an epic battle v Dr. Strange…oh, well OK then RIP Strange we hadly knew ye, or indeed cared. Ha, ha Doom had the Scarlet Witch killed this is perfect everyone’s an idiot and this is all everyone’s fault apart from Spider-Man and his crew, they’re pure. Oh and Angel dies like a complete bitch man I wish Angel had died in the flood and Dazzler had gone nuts and tried to kill Magneto. And I think Valkyrie is dead again, which is loving amazing considering the effort they put in to having Thor save her thankfully she attacked the master of magnetism with a sword. These people are terrible. I also get the feeling they could have done more with the Fantastic Four but just couldn’t be arsed to think of anything. Well issue 5 and I can forget this whole mess because it really has been a mess I get what they wanted to do but they went about it in such a lovely, lovely way a lot of this really hasn’t made sense. Wow Wolverine went down fighting and why do people still attack Magneto wearing/using metal? Oh and all mutants are just from a super soldier programme? Well that’s er, I’m not sure it kinds of opens up another load of stupid that they couldn’t keep these guys under control or that the truth wasn’t revealed sooner or well why there are so many and so huge differences I mean look at Jean Grey and the Blob. And why would this make Magneto all remorseful, I’d have thought it would have just galvanized him made him even angrier if anything, humans created him and rejected him that’s a bitter pill. But in the end he just gives up. And Scott is gone, pity Jean didn’t have any powers that could have helped stop it or anything and at this point I’m pretty ambivalent about Grimm killing Doom and I don’t even know how I feel about Quicksilver being alive. No I've changed my mind Grimm killing Doom is stupid because Doom is supposed to be really powerful and Grimm just walks up to him and squishes his head. They’ve got a last page titled “Honoring Those who Died in Ultimatum” and people like Blob, Magneto and Madrox are on there, yeah good job honoring the bad guys! It was during issue 5 I found out that Loeb is the same guy who wrote Ultimates 3 and I have to ask did an ultimate comic gently caress his wife or something because he sure hate’s them. Still that’s the worst over with now right? Now only good things will happen to the characters, Spider-Man, the remaining X-Men & Avengers. They’ve had the truly tough times now they can look up and bask in the sunny days of fun adventures! I’m right aren’t I?
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Mar 6, 2016 20:15
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The best part comes later when they retcon Doom and Grimm cries about it.
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Mar 6, 2016 20:30
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Ultragonk posted:And I think Valkyrie is dead again, which is loving amazing considering the effort they put in to having Thor save her thankfully she attacked the master of magnetism with a sword. These people are terrible. Really what encapsulates Ultimatum for me is the part where Valkyrie cuts Magneto's arm with her sword somehow, even though she's coming right at him and he's not like "boy, maybe I should stop this", and also for some reason he isn't like "AAAAAA MY ARM". No, instead he stands there like an action figure, chides her for using a metal sword against him, which, I dunno, seems to have worked out beyond anybody's wildest expectations, given that he's minus an arm, and kills her with the sword. Nothing in that sequence makes the faintest bit of sense and yet some editor was like- wait, the book has multiple editors credited? There were as many as four whole people who looked at that series and were like "yup, that'll do".
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Mar 6, 2016 20:39
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Ultragonk posted:Still that’s the worst over with now right? Now only good things will happen to the characters, Spider-Man, the remaining X-Men & Avengers. They’ve had the truly tough times now they can look up and bask in the sunny days of fun adventures! I’m right aren’t I? I don't think it ever gets as bad as Ultimatum again, and there are definitely some good comics in there. I especially think Spider-Man makes the best of an unfortunate situation.
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Mar 6, 2016 20:50
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Ghostlight posted:The best part comes later when they retcon Doom and Grimm cries about it. It was his mother in law
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Mar 6, 2016 20:52
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Spoilers dude.
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Mar 6, 2016 21:11
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Ghostlight posted:The best part comes later when they retcon Doom and Grimm cries about it. I'm shocked that that's what happens  really.Alien Rope Burn posted:Really what encapsulates Ultimatum for me is the part where Valkyrie cuts Magneto's arm with her sword somehow, even though she's coming right at him and he's not like "boy, maybe I should stop this", and also for some reason he isn't like "AAAAAA MY ARM". No, instead he stands there like an action figure, chides her for using a metal sword against him, which, I dunno, seems to have worked out beyond anybody's wildest expectations, given that he's minus an arm, and kills her with the sword. I didn't quite see the point of killing her once and then doing it again. Skwirl posted:I don't think it ever gets as bad as Ultimatum again, and there are definitely some good comics in there. I especially think Spider-Man makes the best of an unfortunate situation. I've started in on Spider-Man post Ultimatium and it seems like it's turning into some sort of anime with half his exs round his house all the time and other super heroes there.
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Mar 6, 2016 21:17
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Ultragonk posted:I'm shocked that that's what happens I love May Parker's home for wayward super-heroes.
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Mar 6, 2016 21:19
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Skwirl posted:I love May Parker's home for wayward super-heroes. Probably the best thing Bendis ever wrote. Easily the best use of Iceman ever.
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Mar 6, 2016 21:21
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