|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Even if someone got out of the actual organophosphate spill, they're so contaminated their clothes and skin will still kill you, so unless there's a decon shower right there, you're still basically going to watch them die. Those things scare me and it's why I'm glad I don't do EMS near farms anymore.
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 18:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:43 |
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:So I was browsing wikipedia, and came across this story about the origins of guncotton. As someone with a chemistry background, I'll say: indeed. There are a bunch of online communities (forums, chats, etc) that are about chemistry. The once I found are actually full of idiot amateurs that ask question on how to set up a lab in their shed so they can make dangerous crap (and cook meth, on the less moderated forums). It seems actual professional chemists are under-represented in those places. If I go there (which I don't do often anymore), I read a few bad idea posts, shake my head, and just walk out. Nothing to see there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
Some days I wonder how humanity survived this long without us all killing ourselves on accident.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Keiya posted:Some days I wonder how humanity survived this long without us all killing ourselves on accident. It's definitely not for lack of trying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:So I was browsing wikipedia, and came across this story about the origins of guncotton. Early 19th century Chemists didn't give a poo poo about anything. Marie Curie, a women who literally carried radium in her pockets ended up discovering a huge number of radioactive elements. So many in fact, that her 'cookbook' of chemical synthesis is too radioactive to handle without protection. Most of her papers are also similarly radioactive from her work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
A White Guy posted:Early 19th century Chemists didn't give a poo poo about anything. Marie Curie, a women who literally carried radium in her pockets ended up discovering a huge number of radioactive elements. So many in fact, that her 'cookbook' of chemical synthesis is too radioactive to handle without protection. Most of her papers are also similarly radioactive from her work. Curie lived in the 20th century. Near the end of her career she knew full well how dangerous the radioactives were and that they caused terrible cancer. Yet, she kept forcing the lab workers she employed to keep doing experiments without any regards to their personal safety whatsoever. She considered results more important than her employees' health. Most of the workers died of radiation disease themselves later on. Yeah, someone like that is a real nice role model for girl scientists...
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
Keiya posted:Some days I wonder how humanity survived this long without us all killing ourselves on accident. because loving is more popular than experimenting
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Curie lived in the 20th century. Near the end of her career she knew full well how dangerous the radioactives were and that they caused terrible cancer. Yet, she kept forcing the lab workers she employed to keep doing experiments without any regards to their personal safety whatsoever. She considered results more important than her employees' health. Most of the workers died of radiation disease themselves later on. “The more you read about how research progressed in the Radium Institute, the less romantic the story seems.”
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:Also, I don't know how much atropine your medics carried, but can you even have enough on-hand to actually deal with a large organophosphate spill even if you could somehow get to them with appropriate PPE and the decon shower? Last I checked, you needed some pretty drat high doses compared to its use in bradycardia. Well, it counters organophosphate poisoning by competing for the same receptors, blocking acetylcholine from getting to them, at which point the fact that you've been exposed to a cholinesterase inhibitor is neither here nor there. So whether you've been poisoned with a few milligrams of VX or been exposed to a massive spill, the effective dose of atropine shouldn't change much; once the receptors are blocked, they're blocked. The military autoinjectors contain 2 milligrams of atropine and 600 of pralidoxime (which operates differently and is more about the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors than the muscarinic which atropine works on).
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
Passed a well-labeled tanker truck of toluene diisocyanate on a road trip the other day. It's pretty cool stuff, apparently it's used to make polyurethane because it'll pop onto any hydroxyl group and make a carbamate linkage out of it. That's especially neat when it gets on you and turns you into polyurethane too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 04:17
|
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:So I was browsing wikipedia, and came across this story about the origins of guncotton. At least two artificial sweeteners have been discovered because of poor safety practices, especially not washing hands after working with the chemicals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 08:51
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Curie lived in the 20th century. Near the end of her career she knew full well how dangerous the radioactives were and that they caused terrible cancer. Yet, she kept forcing the lab workers she employed to keep doing experiments without any regards to their personal safety whatsoever. She considered results more important than her employees' health. Most of the workers died of radiation disease themselves later on. I've always liked Lise Meitner but I'm a nuclear engineer so her work is a little closer to my heart.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 08:59
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:At least two artificial sweeteners have been discovered because of poor safety practices, especially not washing hands after working with the chemicals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 09:01
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:At least two artificial sweeteners have been discovered because of poor safety practices, especially not washing hands after working with the chemicals. I suspect they were lying about it being accidental. Tasting compounds was common practice even in the 1960s and didn't really die out until the 70s or 80s; there's still one Nobel prize winner, Barry Sharpless, who still tastes almost everything he makes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 09:02
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:At least two artificial sweeteners have been discovered because of poor safety practices, especially not washing hands after working with the chemicals. Also, FOOF Fun Fact: That's also how Denatonium Benozate(aka Bitrex) was discovered. A chemist was trying to create a lidiocane deriviate and instead discovered the most bitter tasting chemical known to man.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 10:08
|
|
|
Memento posted:That's just a 4-acid digest. HCl (hydrochloric acid), HNO3 (nitric acid), HF (hydrofluoric acid) and HClO4 (perchloric acid) is the absolute standard for multi-element assays in the minerals industry. Cheap, effective, massive machines do all the work, seriously no one should ever be touching anything. Drill core goes in one end, numbers come out the other. You sound like my wife. She used to make fun of me, back in the day, saying I was boring when my friends and I would talk about computers and tech support. Now she will say things like you're saying in regards to protein development with the columns and the assays and the equilibration and lots and gels and synthesis and mass spectrometers and HPLC's and I have no loving idea what she's talking about. I need a new degree to have a conversation about her work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 11:13
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 12:31
|
|
|
0 for instability. Not even trying. (It's probably liquid hydrogen, that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that's usable as rocket fuel and would have those values... which really just raises more questions about that bucket.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 12:53
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:I suspect they were lying about it being accidental. Tasting compounds was common practice even in the 1960s and didn't really die out until the 70s or 80s; there's still one Nobel prize winner, Barry Sharpless, who still tastes almost everything he makes. Yeah, it's hard to remember that for much of its history, there were no analytical instruments available to chemists. Your own senses were the best instruments available, so tasting a tiny bit of a compound was pretty routine. You'll also find elaborate descriptions of how compounds look and smell in old literature, sometimes even what it sounds like when crushed. Thankfully most stuff is not instantly toxic in small amounts, but the cumulative damage tended to be pretty bad. Chemists had notably shorter lifetimes than others.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 16:19
|
|
|
Keiya posted:0 for instability. Not even trying. (It's probably liquid hydrogen, that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that's usable as rocket fuel and would have those values... which really just raises more questions about that bucket.) Too much unburnt hair and skin also.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:
I'm surprised that EMTs don't carry these given that there are a bunch of AchE inhibitors that are now commonly prescribed to elderly patients (Alzheimer's drugs for example) and there's a few given to schizophrenics, both populations where an accidental OD can be common.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
AA is for Quitters posted:I'm surprised that EMTs don't carry these given that there are a bunch of AchE inhibitors that are now commonly prescribed to elderly patients (Alzheimer's drugs for example) and there's a few given to schizophrenics, both populations where an accidental OD can be common. Well, the atropine injectors are for if you're actively being attacked with nerve gas. It's also important to note that donepezil is a reversable acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, something that they never bothered engineering into VX gas. Phanatic posted:The military autoinjectors [s]contain 2 milligrams of atropine and 600 of pralidoxime (which operates differently and is more about the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors than the muscarinic which atropine works on). We trained in the use of these in the lead up to my quitting the army reserve in 2003. We had heard rumours that our unit was going to get mobilised to go somewhere really, really lovely, and then that training was scheduled, then my contract was up for renewal, then I decided I'd had about enough of that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:17
|
|
|
I come from a biology background (pre-med major), so the phrase "acetylcholinesterase inhibitor" inspires pure terror in me (even after having been mortared and having my base strafed with machine guns at one point). Even more so because I made the mistake of asking an army chemical warfare officer about her job one day. I heard more about nerve agents than I ever wanted to, and learned exactly how expendable most soldiers are to the army 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:31
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:I come from a biology background (pre-med major), so the phrase "acetylcholinesterase inhibitor" inspires pure terror in me (even after having been mortared and having my base strafed with machine guns at one point). Even more so because I made the mistake of asking an army chemical warfare officer about her job one day. I heard more about nerve agents than I ever wanted to, and learned exactly how expendable most soldiers are to the army Keep in mind that that is one of the last truly World War 3 oriented specializations in the military.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:41
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Keep in mind that that is one of the last truly World War 3 oriented specializations in the military. It doesn't even exist anymore, I don't think. All the chemical warfare officer slots have been changed over to be warrant officer slots, effectively killing off the specialty for commissioned officers. Not that they did anything related to their specialty anyways, other than run an infrequent class on "here's how to put on protective gear, by the way there's only enough for ~8 people in a company of ~140" and run the tear gas house for whoever needed to go through it for whatever dumb reason.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:47
|
|
|
https://i.imgur.com/Vbtujp5.gifv
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
Hot. Well, I suppose more brisance is developed as opposed to heat, but still.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 05:01
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:It doesn't even exist anymore, I don't think. All the chemical warfare officer slots have been changed over to be warrant officer slots, effectively killing off the specialty for commissioned officers. Not that they did anything related to their specialty anyways, other than run an infrequent class on "here's how to put on protective gear, by the way there's only enough for ~8 people in a company of ~140" and run the tear gas house for whoever needed to go through it for whatever dumb reason. Honestly, I think that's a good thing. That's the sort of niche specialty that warrant officers exist for, because to do that really right would probably damage the career of main line officers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
What is that? Alkalis are colorless in solution. What's fluid, purple, and reacts violently with what I assume is water?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:00
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:What is that? Alkalis are colorless in solution. What's fluid, purple, and reacts violently with what I assume is water? It seems to be pretty dense. I assumed it was molten lead, producing a steam explosion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:05
|
|
|
The reddit thread says it's molten salt. But 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:10
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:I come from a biology background (pre-med major), so the phrase "acetylcholinesterase inhibitor" inspires pure terror in me (even after having been mortared and having my base strafed with machine guns at one point). Even more so because I made the mistake of asking an army chemical warfare officer about her job one day. I heard more about nerve agents than I ever wanted to, and learned exactly how expendable most soldiers are to the army Cross-quoting a Cold War chem grunt: Let's Talk About Idiots! This is going to be a long post; there's a lot of background useful for getting in the right frame of mind, then there's why this guy's actually important despite the entire first part being about his unit's disposability. The last part is most relevant to the thread, as it's about the various chemicals ChemCorps grunts got exposed to, and becomes all the more interesting for the first two parts. Nostalgia4ColdWar posted:Cost Analysis Warfare was how it was put to some of us who asked questions. Apparently somewhere in the Pentagon is exactly how much a soldier is worth. From training to equipment. Our equipment was more valuable then we were, so that was factored into the analysis. Whether we could take on the Soviet Union or not was entirely decided on weird algorithms and poo poo, all based on 'cost effectiveness' and poo poo like that. Rumor around the unit was that our lives were worth exactly $4.50. Rumors were around that the M1A1 was so tough that the crew could die of radiation poisoning or blast wave overpressure and they could just throw another crew into it to keep getting their money's worth. This led to a lot of pseudo-depression in our unit as we knew that we were written off. So there's some nice background; yes there were people in the thread saying he was making poo poo up, which in that post he says his various chains of command also did when he finally got sent out of the unit, but absolutely no one who was in the Army at the time disagreed with the sentiments, the general experience, or the plausibility of it. That was part one; how he and his unit were viewed by the Brass. Part two is what he actually did, then part three is the conditions enabled by parts one and twoNostalgia4ColdWar posted:Sure, I had a nervous breakdown and challenged a Brigadier General to a fight for the 'total mastery of the universe' from on top of a stack of MRLS rounds, but I knew my poo poo. My assistant squad leader could step into my shoes if I got downed, I could pick up the slack for about half of my crew, and the whole bunch of us had guts and ingenuity. No, this wasn't all a bait-and-switch about a druggie getting through the cracks and into somewhere he really shouldn't have been. Everyone in the bunker and probably quite a few people across the base were unexpectedly popping positive, due to the fact that although they were the people who would be trying to slow down the main thrust of the Communists if WWIII kicked off in the mid/late '80, their equipment was from 'Nam, at newest. Nostalgia4ColdWar posted:Except I never consciously took PCP in my life. How in the Hell did the Cold War not end in nuclear Hellfire.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:10
|
|
|
Molten salt Beaten EwokEntourage has a new favorite as of 06:21 on Mar 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:11
|
|
|
Same reason you don't put out a grease fire with water.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
Hremsfeld posted:How in the Hell did the Cold War not end in nuclear Hellfire. within the many worlds hypothesis, i live in the universe which was not obliterated by nuclear hellfire
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:24
|
|
|
Phobophilia posted:within the many worlds hypothesis, i live in the universe which was not obliterated by nuclear hellfire yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:24
|
|
|
SneakyFrog posted:yet. and some variation of "me" will continue living in a universe that was not obliterated
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
Phobophilia posted:and some variation of "me" will continue living in a universe that was not obliterated Maybe even one where your posts aren't poo poo!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 06:32
|
|
|
maybe A Colder War happened and we *are* dead
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 07:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:43 |
|
|
Cumslut1895 posted:maybe A Colder War happened and we *are* dead With your posting we certainly aren't in heaven
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2016 07:33
|
|
