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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Superman was thematically tied to the Sun in that film and it was filled with light but people just remember the 'muted' tones of the film and assume it was grim and dark. Consequences are fine, plenty of people die in The Avengers. The grimness of Man of Steel is that Superman doesn't really enjoy his job of fighting aliens.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:16 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 13:25 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:Consequences are fine, plenty of people die in The Avengers. The grimness of Man of Steel is that Superman doesn't really enjoy his job of fighting aliens. That was great though.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:30 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:Consequences are fine, plenty of people die in The Avengers. The grimness of Man of Steel is that Superman doesn't really enjoy his job of fighting aliens. Fighting aliens who want to destroy all humans is depressing, Superman totally gets it. Tony Stark is a sociopath for cracking wise while "hundreds" of people die around him.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:30 |
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It's not just a 'lack of snark' issue imo, MoS has to be grimdark because it doesn't fit the pop culture image of Superman being the guy who saves everyone forever always even to the point of turning back time by spinning the Earth back real fast. People are cool with consequences in general but the Avengers don't have the mythos of Superman so a Superman succeeding but with consequences gets judged more harshly.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:34 |
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Tezcatlipoca posted:That was great though. Guy A. Person posted:Fighting aliens who want to destroy all humans is depressing, Superman totally gets it. Tony Stark is a sociopath for cracking wise while "hundreds" of people die around him. Yeah, no poo poo. I loving adore Man of Steel. edit: Sorry, maybe an overreaction. But my complaint definitely isn't with the movie. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Mar 7, 2016 |
# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:34 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:Consequences are fine, plenty of people die in The Avengers. The grimness of Man of Steel is that Superman doesn't really enjoy his job of fighting aliens. Phil and some random German guy. Brother Entropy posted:It's not just a 'lack of snark' issue imo, MoS has to be grimdark because it doesn't fit the pop culture image of Superman being the guy who saves everyone forever always even to the point of turning back time by spinning the Earth back real fast. People are cool with consequences in general but the Avengers don't have the mythos of Superman so a Superman succeeding but with consequences gets judged more harshly. And that judgment is stupid as gently caress.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:40 |
Guy A. Person posted:Fighting aliens who want to destroy all humans is depressing, Superman totally gets it. Tony Stark is a sociopath for cracking wise while "hundreds" of people die around him. So is the protagonist of pretty much every non-rated R action or adventure movie ever if we go by that metric.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:44 |
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Snowman_McK posted:Phil and some random German guy. Man of Steel doesn't show a pile of corpses either, you basically have to assume it based on the damage to the buildings, though obviously Man of Steel goes further in that regard.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:45 |
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I just didn't find Superman very heroic. I kind of disliked the guy, and he never won me over. I think they over played the alien angle way too much for me.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:45 |
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Bob Quixote posted:So is the protagonist of pretty much every non-rated R action or adventure movie ever if we go by that metric. Yes, and?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:45 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:Man of Steel doesn't show a pile of corpses either, you basically have to assume it based on the damage to the buildings, though obviously Man of Steel goes further in that regard. They literally show thousands of people being crushed to death by the force of the terraformer.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:46 |
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CelticPredator posted:They literally show thousands of people being crushed to death by the force of the terraformer. I would be surprised if it were more than just a few actually shown. Most of the shots of stuff rising and falling is just rubble and vehicles.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:47 |
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maybe not thousands, but a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wukyrxavkJo
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:50 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:Consequences are fine, plenty of people die in The Avengers. What was the line in Daredevil? "Hundreds"?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:52 |
Mechafunkzilla posted:Yes, and? Mainly just saying that I've heard this type of complaint a lot about super hero movies in general, from the light bantering tone in Avengers action sequences to people being angry about "Superman making out with Lois Lane with the burning corpses of the entire city of Metrolopis literally at their feet", but it really just seems like par for the course in family oriented action movies to throw in some levity in the middle of the violent scenes. You can have Gimli and Legolas cracking jokes with one another as they murder their way through shitloads of orcs in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but the film isn't framed in such a way to show them as monstrous sociopaths so we just kind of accept it. I'm not really sure what it is about superhero media that makes this relatively common thing seem so egregious to people.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:52 |
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CelticPredator posted:maybe not thousands, but a lot. I'd agree that it does a better job of implying widespread chaos better than The Avengers, because what doesn't it do better, but there's very few on-screen deaths. Even that clip keeps cutting away before we see individual people being lifted up or crushed. computer parts posted:What was the line in Daredevil? "Hundreds"? That seems like a lot of people to me.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 06:54 |
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Bob Quixote posted:You can have Gimli and Legolas cracking jokes with one another as they murder their way through shitloads of orcs in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but the film isn't framed in such a way to show them as monstrous sociopaths so we just kind of accept it. I'm not really sure what it is about superhero media that makes this relatively common thing seem so egregious to people. I don't think the snarky action cliche is egregious by itself so much as the idea in superhero fandom that it's the default way to do superhero movies and a movie that eschews it is a grimdark failure. It feels like part of a larger trend of modern American pop culture where everything has to have layers of humor or irony to protect us from letting a piece of media invoke genuine emotion in its audience (this is also probably a major reason I loved the newest Godzilla so much, it did such a fantastic job of evoking awe and powerlessness)
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:11 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:
Relative to Manhattan, it's pretty small (and would be a small area). Though I guess that's just commending the Avengers on containing the damage. And really, in fairness Ultron was much more on the nose about the "no civilians were harmed during the making of this awesome fight" stuff.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:16 |
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Brother Entropy posted:I don't think the snarky action cliche is egregious by itself so much as the idea in superhero fandom that it's the default way to do superhero movies and a movie that eschews it is a grimdark failure. It feels like part of a larger trend of modern American pop culture where everything has to have layers of humor or irony to protect us from letting a piece of media invoke genuine emotion in its audience It did, but it's not a completely joyless experience. While most of the film is fairly dark and forbidding, they still managed to have a super fun, crowed pleasing monster rumble that completely makes the experience worth it.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:20 |
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computer parts posted:And really, in fairness Ultron was much more on the nose about the "no civilians were harmed during the making of this awesome fight" stuff. Which, and this is probably an unpopular opinion, I prefer to how it works in The Avengers. I'll take a group whose literal collective superpower is to prevent civilian casualties over a movie that implies a bunch of deaths without ever visually selling the destruction.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:20 |
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CelticPredator posted:It did, but it's not a completely joyless experience. While most of the film is fairly dark and forbidding, they still managed to have a super fun, crowed pleasing monster rumble that completely makes the experience worth it. MoS did this too, the monsters just weren't as big
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:23 |
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Brother Entropy posted:MoS did this too, the monsters just weren't as big If that was a fun fight to you, then more power to ya. It was just way to stressful for me. It also gave me a headache. I wanted to leave.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:26 |
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Let's be clear here, no super hero movie has had a final battle as good as the one from Godzilla. It's not a good comparison.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:29 |
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CelticPredator posted:If that was a fun fight to you, then more power to ya. It was just way to stressful for me. It also gave me a headache. I wanted to leave. Yeah, that's fair. From my point of view it's kinda tough to see one of those fights as much more 'fun' or 'stressful' than the other but it's not really likely that I could logically argue you out of a personal reaction like 'it gave me a headache' cause that'd put anyone off of a big loud movie scene
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:33 |
Brother Entropy posted:I don't think the snarky action cliche is egregious by itself so much as the idea in superhero fandom that it's the default way to do superhero movies and a movie that eschews it is a grimdark failure. It feels like part of a larger trend of modern American pop culture where everything has to have layers of humor or irony to protect us from letting a piece of media invoke genuine emotion in its audience I don't think there's one true way to properly do a superhero movie myself - I enjoyed both Man of Steel and most of the Marvel studios films. I don't consider giving your superhero movie a more serious tone any kind of cinematic sin, but at the same time I'm not really sure why its a bad thing to go the opposite route and have your big action sequences be more lightweight and comedic. My comment wasn't meant to imply that a superhero movie should never be serious, but rather that holding up the concept of seriousness itself as some ideal that the non-serious superhero movies are failing to live up to as sort of odd and kind of nonsensical when you view them as part of the larger action-adventure-fantasy genre. (EDIT: I'm not implying that you are doing that, I'm just saying that it's an attitude I've seen online when people are arguing the merits of different superhero movies that kind of bugs me, especially when it gets dragged into the larger Marvel vs. DC thing) (I also thought the new Godzilla was fantastic for the same reason too, I'd never seen a movie in the series that really gave you an impression of what it would be like to be a human in this world as well as this one did) Bob Quixote fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:37 |
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Skwirl posted:Obviously making Lucifer a police procedural was a misstep, but I'm also puzzled at making him super British, and I don't mean the actor portraying him having a British accent, he clarifies with someone who said "pants" that he meant trousers. He's supposed to have been in LA for 5 years when the show starts, I know several UK expats and they are never confused when I say "pants." Should have just given Mark Pellegrino his own show.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:11 |
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The Avengers hides consequences to the point where you don't even notice they're there, and it never weighs against the action as you're watching it because it's never shown. MoS shows, however briefly, people being lifted into the air by the gravity thing, people being crushed by the rubble, etc., as well as multiple soldiers being killed. Therefore, when something "cool" happens on screen, it's automatically weighted with "this might kill a civilian" in peoples' minds. I don't think Avengers shows a single person being killed during the entire Chitauri battle. It's not even hinted to - when the aliens are on screen, they're aiming their weapons at cars, and when people are on screen, they're mostly being herded around by cops or rescued by Avengers. When the big city destruction building scenes happen, the streets are suspiciously empty. That makes it easier to focus on the "cool" things happening, as there's no counter-weight against it. This mostly happens on a subconscious level with people, as they don't realize what is happening, so they leave MoS wondering why the action didn't seem as "fun" to them and think its a default negative against the movie.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 15:42 |
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Lucifer is British because U.S. audiences associate British accents with cool, intelligent, powerful, villains, and it works as shorthand for the character.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 15:43 |
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Darko posted:I don't think Avengers shows a single person being killed during the entire Chitauri battle. It's not even hinted to - when the aliens are on screen, they're aiming their weapons at cars, and when people are on screen, they're mostly being herded around by cops or rescued by Avengers. When the big city destruction building scenes happen, the streets are suspiciously empty. That makes it easier to focus on the "cool" things happening, as there's no counter-weight against it. There was a scene in a bank or something where some Chitauri were threatening a bunch of people and Cap leaps in and takes a shot to the gut to protect them, or something like that. Also there were scenes where the Avengers were directing the cops to evacuate everyone from the immediate area which is why the streets were empty later in the scene.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 15:47 |
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CelticPredator posted:If that was a fun fight to you, then more power to ya. It was just way to stressful for me. It also gave me a headache. I wanted to leave. That sucks dude. Snyder fight scenes are so amazing IMO - from 300 thru Watchmen to MoS and from the looks of just the Batman vs Thugs fight - he's so visceral and the violence is brutal, not real - but its harsh. I would have loved for him to take on something like Predator.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:06 |
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Darko posted:Lucifer is British because U.S. audiences associate British accents with cool, intelligent, powerful, villains, and it works as shorthand for the character. American media needs more Chav baddies.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:07 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj1mYq03Pfc I love this campaign.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:43 |
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Vintersorg posted:That sucks dude. There's not too many other directors who are as crazy about illustrated art and work their rear end off to replicate it in live action the way he does. He's one of those people who you know Warners has gone "so, hey, Akira...?" to multiple times.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:58 |
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amusinginquiry posted:Should have just given Mark Pellegrino his own show. They did, it didn't turn out too well. Snowglobe of Doom posted:There was a scene in a bank or something where some Chitauri were threatening a bunch of people and Cap leaps in and takes a shot to the gut to protect them, or something like that. They also did some justification like "keep the bad guys within this radius" even though that was functionally impossible with only two flying dudes.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:13 |
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj1mYq03Pfc Clearly the photobomb option is the best choice. Best Lex.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:13 |
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The devil went down to Metropolis he was looking for a soul to steal.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:37 |
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I don't think I've ever heard a cello shred.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:23 |
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Gyges posted:I don't think I've ever heard a cello shred.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:35 |
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Gyges posted:I don't think I've ever heard a cello shred. Wasn't there a discussion about shredding violinists in CD a few days ago? Doesn't seem too far off.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:39 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 13:25 |
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Gyges posted:I don't think I've ever heard a cello shred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzKqA9n-mo
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:39 |