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Tias posted:Does it matter for the story being told? IIRC current militaries are already dreaming up all kinds of weight suspension schemes, from robotic mules to exoskeletons - unless it's really what you want to talk about, you could handwave it away, even in a reasonably hard sci-fi setting. I would ordinarily say it wouldn't, but we're designing a framework for various GMs - don't think a full RPG system, but we're trying to take setting that's light on *any* details and actually give it details. So it helps to be detailed on our end, if only so the GM has freedom on their end.
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Mar 8, 2016 16:05
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Tias posted:Also, can we talk about flechettes and beehives? Koesj posted:As an aside, you'll also want to be looking at ground pressure in your sci-fi infantry combat scenario. *future not-Waffen SS company sinks in a bog and dies while invading future not-Soviet Union planet*
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Mar 8, 2016 16:15
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Arquinsiel posted:I think that's kind of the point of the "shotgun" part there. A couple might hit cross-body, but the rest won't. Also even the cross-body hits should have some tumble to them that'll hurt a bit. Yeah, but apparently some, like the M-79 grenade, were so poor that targets were just spattered with kind of annoying nails hitting them by the wide side. Surely that's not the intention?
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Mar 8, 2016 16:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY 100 Years Ago At Verdun, meet Commandant Macker, the man who won against German machine-guns while armed with a stout walking-cane, a fine cigar, and a gentleman's monocle. He only looks like a twerp, but sadly the people leading the attack at Dujaila Redoubt in Mesopotamia are actually twerps, and Edward Mousley can nearly see what's going on as the debacle unfolds. There's another fine and little-known Russian success at Rize on the Black Sea coast, the last stop before Trebizond; E.S. Thompson's flanking manoeuvre is a complete success in Africa as the Schutztruppe retreats from Salaita Hill without giving battle, but there's warning signs in the form of brief rain showers; Henri Desagneaux continues to get to know his new position; and Grigoris Balakian's journey through genocide takes a turn for the macabre. quote:We saw, in the fields on both sides of the road, the first decomposed human skeletons and skulls. Long hair was still attached to some of them. PS: The best use for a flechette is to make it the size of a large lawn dart and then drop it out of a biplane when flying over a trench. edit: Own up, which one of you landed on my blog while googling "is gallipoli the tigris river?" Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 16:43
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Tias posted:Yeah, but apparently some, like the M-79 grenade, were so poor that targets were just spattered with kind of annoying nails hitting them by the wide side. Surely that's not the intention?
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Mar 8, 2016 16:56
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Tias posted:Yeah, but apparently some, like the M-79 grenade, were so poor that targets were just spattered with kind of annoying nails hitting them by the wide side. Surely that's not the intention? "Ow! Quit it!"
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Mar 8, 2016 16:59
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Spacewolf posted:Random diversion: This depends a LOT on what you mean by "haul around". If you're talking about "sling onto a helicopter and then hump it a klick or two", then 100 lbs is probably reasonable on average. If you're talking about doing a long range foot patrol, 100 lbs is an awful lot. You also have to differentiate between mounted loads, marching loads, and fighting loads. If you're mounted obviously you can pack a whole lot more than if you're marching; fighting loads really shouldn't be more than 25-30% of body weight (I always used 50-60 lbs as my rule of thumb, which is basically vest with plates, rifle with ammo, a grenade or two, and maybe a bit of other kit). Marching loads should be maybe...50% of body weight, although that is REALLY hard to get to if you have to carry anything big (read: Javelin. Or batteries. gently caress batteries). Mounted loads can be pretty much as big as you can fit on your mount, so long as you can move them to your fighting position after you get where you're going.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:34
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To continue bad poetry posting with a tank destroyer verse: Tiger, Tiger, burning bright In the forests of the night, What seven-six or one-five-two Was it that liquefied your crew? Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 17:39
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StashAugustine posted:Wasn't one of the issues in Black Hawk Down that the soldiers had left their night vision at home since they assumed it was going to be a quick snatch and grab? Yeah, and they were only going three miles from their base. Whoops.
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Mar 8, 2016 17:54
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Spacewolf posted:And how much did they carry, say, back in the 30 years war? (I know that'd vary hugely between, say, pike people and musket people, but as an average) Here's a detail from one of Sebastian Vrancx's paintings--early modern backpacks are these adorable little wicker things.  (the stripes at the bottom of these womens' skirts are a thing in military culture--these women would probably look distinctively military to the period observers, just like their men would have, even without their weapons and armor) so you'd also have to think about things like cultural attitudes toward doing certain things. my subjects don't dig either, or only under duress and when promised tips. but spanish soldiers do. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 17:56
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Trin Tragula posted:edit: Own up, which one of you landed on my blog while googling "is gallipoli the tigris river?" I ASKED FIRST SO JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, GODDAMNIT!  Sincerely, Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill Nenonen fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 18:00
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....I ask a somewhat nerdy question, and this thread turns up GOLD in more quantities than I thought I could need or want or ever use. THANKS EVERYBODY!
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Mar 8, 2016 18:00
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StashAugustine posted:Wasn't one of the issues in Black Hawk Down that the soldiers had left their night vision at home since they assumed it was going to be a quick snatch and grab? They also left out armor plates from their vests, since they were heavy and stifling in the heat. This is a detailed report from 2003 on the fighting load of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. It details the exact equipment load of every possible permutation of "American infantry", from riflemen to squad leaders to SAW gunners. It also details just what a fighting load, approach march load, and emergency approach march load are and how much of a percentage of the average soldier's body weight each is. The simplest breakdown: * The fighting load is the most basic set of gear. It's your uniform (and everything in your pockets), your load-bearing gear (in modern day a load-bearing vest or plate carrier, in the past a suspender and belt system) loaded with ammo and important items like grenades and tools, your body armor (in modern day the use of plate carriers with MOLLE webbing or pre-attached pouches allows the load-bearing gear and body armor to be the exact same thing, while in the past it was a separate vest worn under the gear like the PASGT vest), and your weapons. * The approach march load adds an assault rucksack, basically just a typical backpack loaded with important gear like MREs, spare clothes, a cleaning kit, ropes and climbing gear, and batteries. * The emergency approach march load adds the main rucksack on top of all this, which is filled with things like more food and clothes, a bedroll and sleeping mat, and cold weather clothing. In practice, the emergency approach march load was rarely carried because the main rucksack was just left at the base. The approach march load would have been carried if the soldier was expected to be away from the base for a long enough period of time to need more than one meal and a change of clothes, or if they had lots of special equipment to carry like demolition gear. According to the study, a basic rifleman's fighting load is 63 pounds on average. This balloons to 95.67 pounds for the approach march load and 127.34 pounds for the emergency approach march load.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:16
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chitoryu12 posted:According to the study, a basic rifleman's fighting load is 63 pounds on average. This balloons to 95.67 pounds for the approach march load and 127.34 pounds for the emergency approach march load. I am quite short and quite scrawny. I weigh about 130 pounds, depending on whether I've just had a curry or been out in heavy rain. That is mental.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:29
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Trin Tragula posted:I am quite short and quite scrawny. I weigh about 130 pounds, depending on whether I've just had a curry or been out in heavy rain. That is mental.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:31
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Trin Tragula posted:I am quite short and quite scrawny. I weigh about 130 pounds, depending on whether I've just had a curry or been out in heavy rain. That is mental. Training can do a hell of a lot. Also there is a massive difference between just trying to carry a bunch of poo poo and having a proper support rigging that distributes the weigh well. Carrying 30 lbs in your arms gets awkward and tiring fast, even if you clutch it to your torso or heave it on a shoulder. Load up an average backpack with it and it's annoying but not terrible if you aren't walking with it all day. Put it in a properly designed backpack camping pack and it isn't that big a deal.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:34
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I like the Qing method. Don't just get peasants to carry your poo poo for you, but tear the doors off their houses, sit on it as an improvised sedan chair, and make the poor bastards carry you as well.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:35
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Trin Tragula posted:
Well, is it???
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Mar 8, 2016 18:36
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HEY GAL posted:i could beat u up lol Well yeah, what kind of man hits a woman?
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Mar 8, 2016 19:28
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Trin Tragula posted:I am quite short and quite scrawny. I weigh about 130 pounds, depending on whether I've just had a curry or been out in heavy rain. That is mental. Congratulations, soldier/marine! Here's your belt-fed MG...
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Mar 8, 2016 19:35
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Trin Tragula posted:I am quite short and quite scrawny. I weigh about 130 pounds, depending on whether I've just had a curry or been out in heavy rain. That is mental. You sound like excellent matelot material, then.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:36
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:Congratulations, soldier/marine! Here's your belt-fed MG... I think there's some truth to that for parachutes operations because parachutes have a limited total load, so the smallest guy out of the plane grts the javelin and the biggest guy gets a pistol and a canteen.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:38
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Well yeah, what kind of man hits a woman? Hard to hit her when she has pikes.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:48
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Well yeah, what kind of man hits a woman?
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Mar 8, 2016 19:58
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As M. Barthas might have said: I can run quite fast. I'm happy with that.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:00
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chitoryu12 posted:They also left out armor plates from their vests, since they were heavy and stifling in the heat. This is GLORIOUS. I have bookmarked it. Thank you so very much...The emergency load is insane. What kind of pace was the Soldier/Marine expected to keep with these loads, does it say?
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Mar 8, 2016 20:09
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Spacewolf posted:This is GLORIOUS. I have bookmarked it. Thank you so very much...The emergency load is insane. What kind of pace was the Soldier/Marine expected to keep with these loads, does it say? Stagger about, slowly, and drop it the very, very, very first chance you get. I'm about 6' 180 and was able to do 85-90 lbs of kit fairly easily. I remember being loaded up with ~130 lbs exactly once on an air insertion and I basically got off the helicopter, staggered a couple hundred meters looking like a drunk person or an infant, and then as soon as I possibly could I dropped the ruck and assault pack with an extremely melodramatic grunt and a lot of swearing. For reference at the time I was able to squat/deadlift around 400 lbs and was on the bigger side of average in my unit in terms of height/weight. So...maybe 1.5/2 km an hour with an obnoxious number of injuries en route, at least one of which will require medevac.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:46
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Spacewolf posted:This is GLORIOUS. I have bookmarked it. Thank you so very much...The emergency load is insane. What kind of pace was the Soldier/Marine expected to keep with these loads, does it say? It doesn't seem to say, but that's likely because the emergency approach march load is very unlikely to be carried except when you're hauling all your poo poo someone for an extended stay. The US Army has the benefit of being highly mechanized, so soldiers at a firebase would load into a Humvee, MRAP, Stryker, etc. and be driven to whatever town or field they were going to be patrolling or searching instead of having to walk the whole way.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:50
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Xander77 posted:Apparently the Sharpe series is actually full of lies, but how good were light rifle companies at taking out enemy officers, really? Riflemen / Jagers / Cazadores were likely a bit better at taking out enemy officers, but you're really looking at primarily junior officers and sergeants in Light companies. Keep in mind that once the shooting starts for real, the primary advantages of the rifle are very limited due to the massive, persistent cloud of smoke. Spanish armies weren't that bad. Keep in mind that everyone got thumped on by the French on the regular, so the Spanish regular track record is not all that horrible. Cavalry was generally good to excellent, infantry was generally not good at all, and artillery was variable. Regular formations were generally poorly led at the General officer and Colonel level, less so at the junior officer level. The Convention of Andujar was a massive tactical and strategic victory accomplished entirely by Spanish forces. The impact of the Guerilla can not be understated. Spanish people probably killed more French by a factor of two than the entire Peninsular army. Spain is interesting at the time - you have essentially a civil war laid over the conflict with France, and a lot of different factions involved, which doesn't help engender a unified national response.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:00
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Tiger, Tiger, burning bright Armored fist of the Reich Haters abound, refuse to see Its superiority Do not tell me things like this: "Few were produced, spare parts amiss" Wehraboos know the simple fact: Tiger coming, you get JACKED
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Mar 8, 2016 21:28
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Spacewolf posted:Random diversion: bewbies posted:Stagger about, slowly, and drop it the very, very, very first chance you get. I'm about 6' 180 and was able to do 85-90 lbs of kit fairly easily. I remember being loaded up with ~130 lbs exactly once on an air insertion and I basically got off the helicopter, staggered a couple hundred meters looking like a drunk person or an infant, and then as soon as I possibly could I dropped the ruck and assault pack with an extremely melodramatic grunt and a lot of swearing. For reference at the time I was able to squat/deadlift around 400 lbs and was on the bigger side of average in my unit in terms of height/weight. Of course, if you're writing in a SciFi environment, remember that local gravity is critical. 130lbs is a bitch to haul around here, but a full Apollo EVA suit massed in at 91kg (200lbs on Earth), before you start putting rocks in it. But on the moon you can jump around in it like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ciStUEZK-Y This is not just the lower gravity on the moon making the gear lighter, but also the fact that after short duration spaceflight, an astronaut's musculature is still conditioned for Earth gravity, which is why they can do push ups that lift them off the surface, even in all that gear. So on a lighter planet, your guys would be able to pack way more. On a heavier planet? Much less. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 21:32
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Bewbies, that's glorious. Well, sucked to be you, but the description was helpful. :P And Pitt, yeah, that's kinda what everybody forgets. Especially since you presume friendly ships/training areas are at 1g. Did not at all know the Apollo EVA suits were that massive though....drat.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:40
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Does anyone know a good source for the nature of testing criteria used by different nations? I've seen the archive awareness rundown of the soviet penetration standard, and I've seen enough of test standards to be aware they're different, but I'd like to check the specifics.
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Mar 8, 2016 22:28
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Ancient Roman soldiers (Marius' Mules) on a road march carried very similar loads and traveled very similar distances to soldiers today. Human muscles haven't changed.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:02
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Quick question. Who flies American carrier planes? Is it the USAF or something else? In  , carrier (don't start) plane (don't start) pilots (don't start) vvv Do they have a snappy name like the Fleet Air Arm does? vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 23:51
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Trin Tragula posted:Quick question. Who flies American carrier planes? Is it the USAF or something else? In The American Navy has its own pilots. The Air Force only came into existence in 1947, before then all land aviation was technically a branch of the army.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:58
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They're called Naval Aviators, but that includes Navy, Naval aviation isn't it's own branch.
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Mar 9, 2016 00:03
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The American Navy has its own pilots. The Air Force only came into existence in 1947, before then all land aviation was technically a branch of the army. Well, the Marines have their own aviation units (because of course they do), but they are technically part of the Navy (not that anyone gives a care these days)
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Mar 9, 2016 00:04
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ArchangeI posted:Well, the Marines have their own aviation units (because of course they do), but they are technically part of the Navy (not that anyone gives a care these days) And right now the USMC is apparently hamstringing the F-35 by requiring all variants to have commonality with their demanded VTOL carrier-based version, which restricts the capability of the other variants. One thing I've heard is that the Marines have tried very hard to justify the strength of their air arm, as without it they wouldn't be big and important enough to justify remaining a separate branch.
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Mar 9, 2016 00:09
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Couple pages late, but the weird thing about Kipling is that he used his personal connections to get his kid onto the front line instead of away from it. Specifically, his thin, bookish 16 year old with terrible vision who'd already tried to enlist and been rejected. Kipling was so eager to get him into the war that he went straight to a colonel he knew and got his son a commission in August of 1914. John Kipling got sent to France as soon as he turned 18 and died a few weeks later. London Stone Nov. 11, 1923 WHEN you come to London Town, (Grieving-grieving! ) Bring your flowers and lay them down At the place of grieving. When you come to London Town, (Grieving-grieving!) Bow your head and mourn your own, With the others grieving. For those minutes, let it wake (Grieving-grieving!) All the empty-heart and ache That is not cured by grieving. For those minutes, tell no lie: (Grieving-grieving!) "Grave, this is thy victory; And the sting of death is grieving." Where's our help, from Earth or Heaven, (Grieving-grieving!) To comfort us for what we've given, And only gained the grieving? Heaven's too far and Earth too near, (Grieving-grieving!) But our neighbour's standing here, Grieving as we're grieving. What's his burden. every day? (Grieving-grieving!) Nothing man can count or weigh, But loss and love's own grieving. What is the tie betwixt us two (Grieving-grieving!) That must last our whole lives through? "As I suffer, so do you." That may ease the grieving. Even when he's depressed he's still kind of an rear end in a top hat.
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