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fade5 posted:Here's a decent way to understand how Graham works: Graham is hawkish as hell, but he's actually been over to Iraq/Iraqi Kurdistan a shitton of times. Graham also knows that the US would have to continually keep thousands of troops in Iraq for decades to keep the country stable. The key is, this is an acceptable option to Graham. A shitton of the US disagrees with this, but it's an option that's based in reality. It's just that the cost of doing that would be beyond prohibitively expensive in dollars, lives (both US and Iraqi), and political capital. I try to exclusively shitpost in this forum because I genuinely don't have a great sense of politics and when it comes down to it, I'm a straight-ticket Democratic voter so I treat the behavior of Republicans like a TV show, but I'm going to write a serious post so we'll see how that goes. I do basically understand where Graham is coming from, to a point. His mindset seems to be extreme interventionism deriving from a genuine belief that America is the greatest nation on Earth and that it is a service to other countries to make them more like America (particularly what would be billed as "oppressive regimes"). He thinks that making other countries more like America is good for our nation's security and good for their development, a win-win. He believes the military, overall, does great things (although he acknowledges specific soldiers can do great evil). In this talk, he says "The antidote to extremism is enlightenment" and "Most people don't want what ISIL's selling; it's up to us to give them the capacity, if they have the will, to say no. [...] [ISIL leaders] are preying off poverty. [...] I've learned you cannot kill your way to peace. The only way you win this war is to empower others. And that we have to have an all-of-the-above approach. You've got to have security through military might, but to build the peace you've got to build up the lives of others." In this clip on FOX, he says "Giving a young women a choice about her children in the Mideast is the ultimate antidote to terrorism. That's how you win the war: a hopeful life over a glorious death." In my opinion, this is not totally insane, but it's impractical and idealistic (among other things, I think it's naive to assume we have the capacity to engage without our own brand of corruption compounding pre-existing issues). It's certainly not insane like "magic trust hymen" Cruz, whose views are disconnected from reality in a really fundamental way. But here's what I don't get: how can extreme interventionism in foreign affairs exist alongside fiscal conservatism in domestic ones? If you watch him (Graham) discuss Obamacare, for example, his complaints aren't based on wanting to screw the poor per se--it's that he claims expanding Medicaid and etc. is too expensive and over-burdens the states. (And again, seems extra bizarre because he admitted in his little online book that it took him at least fifteen years to pay the medical debt from his mother's terminal cancer, owing to the family having been under-insured and living in poverty.) If you watch him discussing the flooding in South Carolina, he explicitly states that they won't take "a penny more" than they need. I can rationalize the perspective of allowing absurd spending meddling in foreign nations if you're also in favor of similar meddling at home at corresponding expense. But how can you believe in "state's rights" when the states you're talking about are constituent members of the union, but not when those states are completely discrete countries? And have that view apparently largely predicated on cost, where injections of government dollars into the local economy are more likely to boost local economic conditions than if those dollars were spent outside our nation's borders? If you think funding infrastructure and education matter in Iraq, then how could you not want to support infrastructure and education in America? idgi 
Pick fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 20:49
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:A new anti trump ad focusing on profanity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiX4FAQC9cg
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Mar 8, 2016 20:50
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Montasque posted:It's their only play. Only Trump and Cruz currently have viable paths to the nomination. To get to 1237 naturally for Cruz would require crazy results like Cruz (not Trump or Rubio) winning Florida. Without that (and with the assumption he's losing Ohio to either Kasich or Trump anyway), he'd be about 200 delegates short of where he wants to be on March 15th and would have to seriously outperform in the remaining primaries to even be in the lead by the end of the primaries, let alone get near 1237. That's not to say that this is useless for Cruz...there's a huge difference between ending up with ~600 delegates and ~1000 delegates in a brokered scenario. http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/republicans/ This is actually a pretty cool tool. Look at the races yet to go, remember Cruz is currently 150 delegates off track as is and will need to make those up, and note that his "path" includes both Florida and Ohio, which isn't going to happen, so he's probably more like 300 off track. He can outperform those targets in a lot of other states, especially with Rubio likely out after the 15th (for example, I think Cruz could do a lot better in Wisconsin or Maryland than those trackers give him as his target, and without Rubio, could probably do significantly better in California than those estimates), but even factoring those in and making generous to Cruz assumptions like that he wins WTA Arizona and Indiana, I don't see how he gets past 950-1000 delegates, let alone to 1237.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:51
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Patter Song posted:To get to 1237 naturally for Cruz would require crazy results like Cruz (not Trump or Rubio) winning Florida. Without that (and with the assumption he's losing Ohio to either Kasich or Trump anyway), he'd be about 200 delegates short of where he wants to be on March 15th and would have to seriously outperform in the remaining primaries to even be in the lead by the end of the primaries, let alone get near 1237. Hannity was wrong and I was wrong to not double check what that idiot blockhead said. So only Trump has a viable path to the nomination which makes this convention fight path the only path the #nevertrump'ers have left.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:54
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quote:It's called the STAR program, which stands for the New York State School Tax Relief Program woof now there's a butchered acronym.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:55
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Montasque posted:Hannity was wrong and I was wrong to not double check what that idiot blockhead said. It's been that way for a week now, where ya been?
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Mar 8, 2016 20:56
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Pick posted:But here's what I don't get: how can extreme interventionism in foreign affairs exist alongside fiscal conservatism in domestic ones? If you watch him (Graham) discuss Obamacare, for example, his complaints aren't based on wanting to screw the poor per se--it's that he claims expanding Medicaid and etc. is too expensive and over-burdens the states. (And again, seems extra bizarre because he admitted in his little online book that it took him at least fifteen years to pay the medical debt from his mother's terminal cancer, owing to the family having been under-insured and living in poverty.) If you watch him discussing the flooding in South Carolina, he explicitly states that they won't take "a penny more" than they need. I can rationalize the perspective of allowing absurd spending meddling in foreign nations if you're also in favor of similar meddling at home at corresponding expense. But how can you believe in "state's rights" when the states you're talking about are constituent members of the union, but not when those states are completely discrete countries? And have that view apparently largely predicated on cost, where injections of government dollars into the local economy are more likely to boost local economic conditions than if those dollars were spent outside our nation's borders? I can post more about it later, but basically this fiscal conservatism is what makes Graham a Rrepublican, instead of a very, very, very hawkish Democrat.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:01
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Montasque posted:Hannity was wrong and I was wrong to not double check what that idiot blockhead said. Note that that delegate estimate for Cruz is actually very generous in places. 538's path for Cruz has him taking 52/52 out of Winner-Take-Most Missouri next week, which you'd only expect with a reasonably large win. A narrow Cruz win in Missouri would yield something like 43 delegates for Cruz and 9 for Trump due to the way Winner-Take-Most works, still a commanding win and a serious blow for Trump's majority path, but it'd actually put Cruz behind pace.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:02
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Oiled and Ready posted:It's been that way for a week now, where ya been? Putt'n on my 'vote trump' face y'all! 
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Mar 8, 2016 21:03
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Montasque posted:Putt'n on my 'vote trump' face y'all! fixed 
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Mar 8, 2016 21:07
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Montasque posted:Putt'n on my 'vote trump' face y'all! I love these obscure old vinyl records.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:08
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Montasque posted:Rush has spent about 2hrs talking about that super-secret-not-secret meeting held on how to stop Trump. Island off the coast of Georgia you say?
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Mar 8, 2016 21:09
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https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/707295320447713280 Jennifer Rubin will Stump Trump one day!
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Mar 8, 2016 21:11
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Louisgod posted:fixed 
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Mar 8, 2016 21:11
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Slime Person joins with Slime Man quote:He admitted in the deposition that he previously had sex with several other women while on trips to Thailand and Hong Kong at least five years ago. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/25/bush.brother.reut/ And I've been trying to screen shot I made on a Bing search for Trump and the Detroit bankruptcy because of the MI vote tonight, and this is what came up 
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Mar 8, 2016 21:11
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Romney before Trump: Nice Meltdown.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:14
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fade5 posted:That's basically the proto-typical US "fiscal conservatism", where you try to spend as little as you possibly can get away with. It ties back in weird and variable ways to the protestant work ethic of not taking "more than your own fair share". In the small scale, it's easy to see why this came to be, but the problem is that applying this thought process to things like flood relief is bad, and it's not how the government should work. I understand the desire for minimal government spending as a legitimate political position (not one to which I personally subscribe, but in an academic sense). I also support the idea of a congress that represents the range of... reality-based political thought (although obviously I'd prefer it matched my views/values overall). But to me, "reality-based" means based on fact and viewed through a consistent lens. I don't understand how someone can believe that good schools matter in Iraq, but not in the United States (where, for example, Graham has voted against additional federal dollars for education). I don't understand why, to a conservative, it is apparently more important to spend money to exert influence elsewhere and not in your own backyard? Again, his rhetoric suggests he believes education matters and works, so why bleed money so that we can "stabilize" a foreign nation enough that we can build a school, but not repair the mold-infested schools of Detroit? e: And even this I might understand if Graham were a prep-school Harvard jackass who thought "Yeah, my school could have gone without new lacrosse equipment every fortnight, make the parents pay for the polo ponies if it's so important" but he's not. He has witnessed the effects of insufficient accommodations for the lower economic classes! --- I'd be interested in hearing more about it, I appreciate that 
Pick fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 21:15
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Hannity also leading off his show about the Jakyll Island meeting. The Conspiracy to Stump the Trump is becoming the hot button issue in Talk Radio land.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:16
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Montasque posted:https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/707295320447713280 Makign America Great Again
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Mar 8, 2016 21:17
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quote:Mitt Romney tapes Michigan robocall for John Kasich Instead of coalescing behind one candidate Romney is making robocalls for both Kasich and Rubio. This does not seem like a good strategy.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:18
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I can't really see Bernie supporters doing this, soooooo...good news for Bernie I guess?
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Mar 8, 2016 21:18
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TRUNMP! *clkic*
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Mar 8, 2016 21:19
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shiksa posted:woof now there's a butchered acronym. It's actually NYS STAR
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Mar 8, 2016 21:19
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:A new anti trump ad focusing on profanity For everyone confused about why Republicans are hitting Trump on his bad language, the focus groups out of South Carolina with Trump supporters showed that the only thing that made their support waiver was tapes of his cussing. republicans.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:20
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Makign America Great Again It's clear her desperation has finally translated to heavy drinking.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:20
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Ahahahaaaaa, holy God: https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/707299821535760384 e: the RNC deleted the tweet, but it said, "Tammy Duckworth has a sad record of not standing up for our veterans."
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Mar 8, 2016 21:20
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Here. The joke is that she lost both legs serving in Iraq.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:22
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William Bear posted:Here. jesus christ, well, sorry intern who just got fired.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:24
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William Bear posted:Here. lol
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Mar 8, 2016 21:24
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Cross posting but Neil Bush joined the Cruz campaign....on his finance team. http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews....h-support.html/ If you need background on the third rear end in a top hat Bush brother, enjoy this read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis
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Mar 8, 2016 21:25
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Rocks posted:https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/707293408184836096 How predictive has this been?
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Mar 8, 2016 21:25
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This is Tammy Duckworth for those who don't know
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Mar 8, 2016 21:26
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William Bear posted:Here. Thank you. Yeah, that's, uh, that's a fuckup.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:26
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Pick posted:I understand the desire for minimal government spending as a legitimate political position (not one to which I personally subscribe, but in an academic sense). I also support the idea of a congress that represents the range of... reality-based political thought (although obviously I'd prefer it matched my views/values overall). But to me, "reality-based" means based on fact and viewed through a consistent lens. I don't understand how someone can believe that good schools matter in Iraq, but not in the United States (where, for example, Graham has voted against additional federal dollars for education). I don't understand why, to a conservative, it is apparently more important to spend money to exert influence elsewhere and not in your own backyard? Again, his rhetoric suggests he believes education matters and works, so why bleed money so that we can "stabilize" a foreign nation enough that we can build a school, but not repair the mold-infested schools of Detroit? Interventionism is about freeing up markets for trade. Interventionism, social liberalism, cultural liberalism, and neoliberalism are all part of the same package. The other side is populism, sexism, racism, nationalism, and isolationism. The only odd thing about our politics are the amount of rubes that thing you can mix and match them, and get say cultural liberalism without neoliberal economics or populism without nationalism, you can't. People just get confused because the establishment lies their rear end off about what they will deliver. The notion of getting economic populism from rich social liberals or that they would deliver on social conservatism has always been lunacy. Far better to open up another market for neoliberalism and then call everyone a racist bigot who doesn't get with the program despite the fact that the middle class will pay for the war, have their jobs outsource, and then have to deal with immigrant competition for their jobs. These are all features, not bugs.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:26
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William Bear posted:Here. How are they all so loving bad at this?
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Mar 8, 2016 21:27
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Not a Step posted:How predictive has this been? i'd guess trump gets googled more everywhere by virtue of being a celebrity, and he hasn't won every state, so somewhere between "not at all" and "useless"
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Mar 8, 2016 21:28
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William Bear posted:Here. carlin wouldve laughed
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Mar 8, 2016 21:29
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:carlin wouldve laughed Oh, I'm laughing, believe me.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:29
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William Bear posted:Here. How? How in the actual gently caress are they so bad at this? No one Trump is winning.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:30
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