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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Picklepuss
Jul 12, 2002

cargohills posted:

You have very unusual taste if you think he's worse than JNT.
I actually agree with Stuporstar. :shobon: Not to the extent I won't give the next season / series a try, but I'm very, very skeptical that it will be any good.

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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

cargohills posted:

You have very unusual taste if you think he's worse than JNT. No matter how poo poo Chibnall is it can't be as awful as Season 24 (or Dimensions in Time, or letting Pip & Jane anywhere near the show)

e: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is not an example of good Chibnall as it is in fact pretty poo poo, I liked Power of Three though

But Seasons 18, 25, and 26! :mad: And those are just the ones that are popular, not even getting into the interesting "reach > grasp" imaginative Davison stories.

Actually, something I've been thinking about lately was joining in the Thread Reviewers Club, starting from Season 18. We all know my soft spot for the JNT era, it hasn't gotten much coverage in here, and seems somehow appropriate for this particular hiatus.

Now to try and squeeze viewings into the several minutes of free time I have in a given week...

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011

Stuporstar posted:

^^ Power of Three was ruined by the fact that he was incapable of writing a decent third act. He's one of those writers who's capable of having cool ideas, but terrible at executing them because his writing is bad on a fundamental level. He's the Phillip Jose Farmer of the scriptwriting world.



"Riders of the Purple Wage" objectively owns so I don't see what you're getting at.

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Season 24 has Paradise Towers, which I really love.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

After The War posted:

Actually, something I've been thinking about lately was joining in the Thread Reviewers Club, starting from Season 18.

Baker's final season really is quite remarkable, the stories aren't always the best but the mixture of Tom Baker's waning enthusiasm and the general theme of entropy ends up working really strongly into the final story, which in turns ties in extremely nicely to the end of the Pertwee era. Would definitely be interested in seeing write-ups on it.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?

Tim Burns Effect posted:

"Riders of the Purple Wage" objectively owns so I don't see what you're getting at.

I can't stand PHF because his prose is so bad it makes my eyes fall off the page, but enough people have found him readable enough to claim he's a great idea guy, so ymmv. Same is true for Chiball. Even though he's bad on an objective level (Cyberwoman etc.), he's the kind of bad lots of people seem to tolerate. I do like a lot of bad poo poo, but I can't take his particular flavor of bad.

Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 9, 2016

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Jerusalem posted:

Baker's final season really is quite remarkable, the stories aren't always the best but the mixture of Tom Baker's waning enthusiasm and the general theme of entropy ends up working really strongly into the final story, which in turns ties in extremely nicely to the end of the Pertwee era. Would definitely be interested in seeing write-ups on it.

I watched Season 18 about a year ago knowing basically nothing going in, and it's a really remarkable season. The first couple stories are a bit of a wash, but it finishes incredibly strongly, and stuff like Warriors' Gate is the only true moment of pure weirdness in between early Hartnell and like, The Happiness Patrol or Paradise Towers.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
I have to agree with the spirit of Supor, though not to the extent.

Like, let's all be entirely honest here. Chibnall is a terrible writer who, putting his best effort and all of his time and energy, wrote One Good Series that wasn't even Doctor Who related and is no where near Doctor Who in terms of setting, plot, or style.

So we have, at his best, him able to write the best drat non Doctor Who story possible, as our option for the guy writing Doctor Who who is often not at his best.

It looks grim is what I'm trying to say. Dinosaurs on a Space Ship is about the best thing he ever did, and I still can't say I like it very much because a lot of it doesn't work. Some of it does! Most of it doesn't.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?

Burkion posted:

I have to agree with the spirit of Supor, though not to the extent.

Like, let's all be entirely honest here. Chibnall is a terrible writer who, putting his best effort and all of his time and energy, wrote One Good Series that wasn't even Doctor Who related and is no where near Doctor Who in terms of setting, plot, or style.

So we have, at his best, him able to write the best drat non Doctor Who story possible, as our option for the guy writing Doctor Who who is often not at his best.

It looks grim is what I'm trying to say. Dinosaurs on a Space Ship is about the best thing he ever did, and I still can't say I like it very much because a lot of it doesn't work. Some of it does! Most of it doesn't.

I was sick enough of Moffat phoning it in for the last season (though his last episode was pretty good, and the one inside the confession disk was awesome). His slackness on editing his own scripts and the others really showed, which is why I'm not as hopeful as some people about Chibnall taking over, since he can't edit for crap in the first place.

And the thing about his One Good Series is even it went to poo poo, as stated by many people who like it, so to me it's more evidence that he can't finish the stories he starts. What hope does any overarching DW story arc have with a writer like that? Because we all know there will probably be one.

My tolerance is just worn down at this point.

Also, I liked Paradise Towers too. Doctor Who may not have done the best adaptation of Ballard's High Rise, but it was still hella fun (Blue Kangs are the best).

Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Mar 9, 2016

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
Vortex Magazine - "So, what's the best part of working with Big Finish?"

Janet Fielding - "Acting without having to put make-up on! Peter and Sarah should have told me about this years ago!"

Janet. :allears:

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
RED KANGS! RED KANGS!

They are, in fact, the best. :viggo:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

CobiWann posted:

Vortex Magazine - "So, what's the best part of working with Big Finish?"

Janet Fielding - "Acting without having to put make-up on! Peter and Sarah should have told me about this years ago!"

Janet. :allears:

Janet Fielding will never be free of Doctor Who, and that rules. :hellyeah:

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I didn't realise "Paradise Towers" was poorly regarded. I thought it was quite well-liked, actually.

The only Seventh Doctor stories I think are especially bad are the Rani one and "Delta".

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Wheat Loaf posted:

I didn't realise "Paradise Towers" was poorly regarded.

Remember we're talking about a Doctor Who story here, so there's probably equal numbers of people who think of it as highly regarded.

Paradise Towers is one of my favorite McCoys, it has a lot of problems (our old foe the lighting in particular) and it doesn't quite pull off the execution of what it is trying to do, but I really dig the ideas behind it. Conceptually it's pretty cool, it's a flawed but fun story.

That giant yellow mecha-lobster though.... :cripes:

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Paradise Towers suffers from s24's "we can't make the villains actually scary" edict but has a lot of good ideas.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
You people can sit through River Song episodes, 6th Doctor audios, and whatever the gently caress The End of Time was, but the mere announcement of Chibnall running the show has you throwing in the towel?

And you call yourselves fans :colbert:

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
I figured out the main problem with Fear Her - the third act lasts 2/3 of the episode. The moment the Doctor figures out who's snatching the kids should lead to the climax of the story, not Olympic Stadium being drawn. I'd dare say....this was a poorly written episode!

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

CaptainYesterday posted:

I figured out the main problem with Fear Her - the third act lasts 2/3 of the episode. The moment the Doctor figures out who's snatching the kids should lead to the climax of the story, not Olympic Stadium being drawn. I'd dare say....this was a poorly written episode!

Nah, the big problem is "let's make the alien voice be just the kid whispering loudly".

I'm serious, I would like the episode like 100 times more if not for CHLOE WEB-BAH

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

The problem with Fear Her is that something is horribly wrong with the directing so it all feels very dull and lifeless.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Jerusalem posted:

Baker's final season really is quite remarkable, the stories aren't always the best but the mixture of Tom Baker's waning enthusiasm and the general theme of entropy ends up working really strongly into the final story, which in turns ties in extremely nicely to the end of the Pertwee era. Would definitely be interested in seeing write-ups on it.

Here's a reviewer I like taking an interesting crack at it: http://shabogangraffiti.blogspot.com/2011/11/things-fall-apart.html

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?
Paradise Towers is beyond reproach.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

DoctorWhat posted:

Paradise Towers is beyond reproach.
I convinced my brother we were watching another show for a good fifteen minutes of PT. It was that bad.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Lampsacus posted:

I convinced my brother we were watching another show for a good fifteen minutes of PT. It was that bad.

actually it is you who is bad

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Paradise Towers has some bits that are great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCpaOLo6tio

and some bits that are utterly embarrassing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn5CEL37t7A

and some bits that are kind of both at the same time

http://dai.ly/xv6gwu?start=365

and Richard Briers walking around with a stick in his arse

[LINK REDACTED TO AVOID SPOILERS/MENTAL TRAUMA]

It's an experience, but I can totally understand why someone would go "no this is horrendous shite".

BSam
Nov 24, 2012

Lottery of Babylon posted:

The problem with Fear Her is that something is horribly wrong with the directing so it all feels very dull and lifeless.

Even I haven't rewatched Fear Her more than once.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: Secrets always come out at Christmas.

Long Synopsis: The Doctor finally brings Lucie back to her native Blackpool, where a "chance" run-in with her Auntie Pat and a drunk Santa Claus ends a beautiful relationship.

What's Good:
  • Tying up loose ends. The first episode of season 4 of the 8th Doctor Adventures, this story does a pretty good job of tying up some loose ends from across the previous 3 seasons and seemingly wrapping up Lucie Miller's time with the Doctor, bringing her "time" with him rather neatly full circle. A recurring character from the first two seasons was Lucie's Auntie Pat, Lucie's hip aunt who never married or really seemed to move on with her life or go anywhere or do anything. Over time we learned the reasons for her shift from a free-wheeling wannabe musician who could never stay in one place for long to a fun but sedentary recluse - the real Pat died during another adventure, replaced by her Zygon husband who attempted to pay tribute to her (and keep Lucie's timeline intact) by taking on her form permanently and living the rest of his life as Pat. This decision never really sat well with me, especially the Doctor's decision not to tell Lucie the truth, and despite the clear intent to make this a selfless act of love, it came across as kind of crass, short-sighted and even somewhat disrespectful to me. So I was quite pleased that this story actually dealt with the very real consequences of this decision, for "Pat", for the Doctor, and especially for Lucie. By the end of the story, I felt everything had been tied up strongly, and that it served well to mark a breaking point for Lucie and the Doctor. Quite nicely, it also comes nearly full circle back to the first EDA, as Lucie discovers the Doctor has brought her home for Christmas a year too early, meaning that she'll need to spend a few months traveling/laying low before returning to her life shortly after the Time Lords took her out of it, meaning for her family there's no need for explanations of where she has been/what she has been up to.

  • The Anti-Lidster ending. Towards the end of the story, the bad guy is left alone with another character and slowly kills them while cackling evilly about how he is now going to do all these evil things, and that nobody (including the not-present Doctor) will be any the wiser. It's cruel, sadistic and brutally handled.... and then a few moments later we learn that the victim was actually playing the bad guy all along, that the Doctor isn't an idiot and has figured everything out ahead of time and taken steps to resolve it, and we don't get some pointless bit of unresolved misery-porn for its own sake.

  • Lucie Miller. As the apparent swansong for Lucie Miller, it's a strong goodbye. Sheridan Smith is in fine form, having developed strongly in her performance (helped by improved writing/a better understanding of her character) so that her brash, loud overconfidence now seems earned rather than a mask for being in over her head or poor writing trying to shortcut established chemistry between her and Paul McGann. During the scene where she is in a coma and talking with the "porter", she shines strongly, as she takes in his big sales pitch and comes up with an admirable if completely inaccurate take on what is going on. Following that, the (half-heard) revelation of "Pat" and the Doctor's secret has a massive impact on her, but even though her initial reaction is disbelief followed by fury, by the time she is reunited with the Doctor she has already dealt with the whole thing in a far more adult way than you would normally expect from most pieces of media. Her decision to part way with the Doctor comes across as carefully thought through and rather mature - she knows that the Doctor acted in her best interests, knows that he was well intentioned, but his actions have changed the way she looks at him and that isn't something she wants to happen. She makes the decision to leave not out of some momentary spite or later-regretted spur-of-the-moment decision, but as the result of careful deliberation and a desire to maintain her mental image of the Doctor. It's a bittersweet parting, but not necessarily a sad one (though Sheridan Smith does admit to getting a bit weepy while recording her lines :3:).

What's Not:

  • The comic-relief. There's a drunk Santa Claus who features heavily in the story and he's... well he's just a bad character. He doesn't really seem to serve any purpose whatsoever, and his oft-repeated "IT'S CHRISTMASSSSSS" it meant to come across as a running joke and instead it's just rather annoying. Towards the end there is a moment where he acts as the voice of clarity who cuts through the bullshit and shows the Doctor and Pat the error of their ways, but it feels completely unearned and really comes out of nowhere. The rather naff happy ending where he gets a new job working at the hospital (along with the bizarrely Russian-accented receptionist) feels like an attempt to play off the idea of this as a Christmas Special. The special features admit that they were going for the same Christmas Special feel that the Revival had become known for (particularly in the RTD era) but it really doesn't work very well here.

  • "Zynog". The bad guy is a "Zynog", a criminal Zygon punished by being locked into one form only who can only take on a new form by stealing the body of a braindead human. I don't know if this is a creation of Big Finish or something from one of the New Adventures books or not... but it's awful. Just the name alone is so stupid, like if there was a human criminal who had his tongue cut out and from that point forward was called a Hunam or something. They wanted another Zygon but not one that could shapeshift but could telepathically enter people's minds, so up pops the "Zynog" and the whole thing just feels silly.

  • The season-opener. This episode opens this "season" of the Eighth Doctor Adventures but it feels like an ending, something that wraps up the previous three seasons so things can start up fresh and new. There really wasn't anywhere this could fit in with the season-arc they were trying to tell last season though, so it takes up the first episode of this one instead. As a result, the following episode has to set the scene for the rest of the season, and it seems to me that this does it a disservice and starts it on a back foot. At least it wasn't as bad as series 7 where the first half was all about Amy and Rory and then Clara's story got jammed into the back half.

Final Thoughts:

Death in Blackpool is a solid story that is most effective in how it wraps up the story elements of the first three seasons of the Eighth Doctor Adventures, though this may come somewhat at a cost to the fourth season itself. Trying for a Christmas Special feel, it is guilty of a bit too much comic relief that gets in the way of, rather than enhancing, the family drama between Lucie and Pat and how that affects her relationship with the Doctor. The villain is basically kinda pathetic with a silly name and a nearly-as-silly scheme, and the best thing about it is how the Doctor so easily deals with the "threat" when the villain thinks it has everything won. But as a goodbye to Lucie and a parting of the ways with the Doctor it ends very strongly, and it is that scene far more than anything else that happens which will stand out in my mind for some time to come. Sheridan Smith does a great job, and the chemistry she has with Paul McGann is unmistakable, which is even more amazing when you consider that she had to follow up India Fisher as Charley Pollard and the fantastic chemistry between her and McGann. Sheridan Smith's replacement has big shoes to fill.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

PT always holds a soft spot in my heart on account of being the first Doctor Who episode I ever saw. Live on TV at the age of 6 or so. A man was being chased by a robot, which was enough for me to be rapt.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Lampsacus posted:

I convinced my brother we were watching another show for a good fifteen minutes of PT. It was that bad.

What show did you claim? I mean the themes of social deprivation fit something like The Wire quite well, but the cast is entirely white

qntm
Jun 17, 2009

cargohills posted:

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is not an example of good Chibnall as it is in fact pretty poo poo

Oh phew, I thought I was the only one.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

qntm posted:

Oh phew, I thought I was the only one.

And together we make three.

It's not even the obvious objectionable stuff -- the rape threat, the general "ha ha misogyny lol" stuff with the hunter character, the Doctor killing Solomon -- that I don't like. Some of that's pretty terrible, but I've forgiven episodes with worse.

The central concept is just so mediocre. The characters turn up, run around and blow the place up. The end. It's the capture-escape-capture plot played to a T. The sympathetic dinosaur death and the treatment of Nefertiti is meant to give it some weight, but the entire thing is so loving blase about everything that I really couldn't give a poo poo. I'm not going to care if the episode doesn't really care, you know?

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
It completely wastes Mitchell and Webb too, in addition to its many other sins.

Rat Flavoured Rats
Oct 24, 2005
<img src="https://fi.somethingawful.com/customtitles/title-rat_flavoured_rats.gif"><br><font size=+2 color=#2266bc>I'm a little fairy girl<font size=+0> <b>^_^</b></font>

Rochallor posted:

I watched Season 18 about a year ago knowing basically nothing going in, and it's a really remarkable season. The first couple stories are a bit of a wash, but it finishes incredibly strongly, and stuff like Warriors' Gate is the only true moment of pure weirdness in between early Hartnell and like, The Happiness Patrol or Paradise Towers.

I'd say The Mind Robber certainly counts as a true moment of pure weirdness!

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Rat Flavoured Rats posted:

I'd say The Mind Robber certainly counts as a true moment of pure weirdness!

No one post the picture, NO ONE POST THE PICTURE!

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

CobiWann posted:

No one post the picture, NO ONE POST THE PICTURE!

ALL RIGHT, FINE! :mad:

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
No, I can't do it. I can't resist. It's just too goddamn sexy!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I'm boycotting Chibnall until 2018, or maybe December 2017 at the earliest.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

CobiWann posted:

No one post the picture, NO ONE POST THE PICTURE!



Doctor Spaceman posted:

It completely wastes Mitchell and Webb too, in addition to its many other sins.

Oh no!

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

hmm, what does the guy who wrote the shakespeare code think about other people

https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/707586686176370688

k cool opinion guy who wrote planet of the dead

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

Toxxupation posted:

hmm, what does the guy who wrote the shakespeare code think about other people

https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/707586686176370688

k cool opinion guy who wrote planet of the dead

gently caress this guy.

So prepare to destroy your wallets and be the true Doctor Who Hipster, Big Finish is releasing Chimes of Midnight and Spare Parts on vinyl. Limited to 500 copies each, coming out in October 2016 and April 2017 in that order.

Pre-order CD US $111.74+$20 shipping to US

Edit- The price went up since I posted this :psyduck:

GonSmithe fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 9, 2016

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And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?

GonSmithe posted:

Limited to 500 copies each, coming out in October 2016 and April 2007 in that order. :psyduck:

:aaaaa: They're pulling out all the stops, now.

  • Locked thread