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Boob Marley posted:I see your point on the shooting being so good. I guess maybe it set the tone for my expectations in regards to character and theme though, and I was let down. Well, for instance the sexually repressed society of Krypton having H.R. Giger phallic imagery everywhere. Those kind of visual markers make the Kryptonians "feel" like they're barely containing themselves, which makes it hit harder aesthetically when they're shown bursting around at super high speeds and exploding out of their eyeballs. It's like all of the repression is finally being released with every usage of their powers. Compare that with Superman/2's cold, angular aesthetic in Krypton, and how much care and control is shown with their usage of powers (as well as Stamp Zod's arrogant coldness).
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Mar 11, 2016 17:28
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Boob Marley posted:Again, you're drat right it is. And it's a successful franchise because it delivers on a slew of little things that people love and enjoy. It's not a successful franchise because it runs roughshod over what people know and love about the characters, it's successful because it gives fans of the source material a pay off without excluding general audiences. MoS did neither. You can call Marvel Studios a big evil money machine all day long, but the means of their success, the way in which they accumulate such wealth and success, has had everything to do with the quality of their content. Starbucks is everyone's favorite big-bag company to hate on because they've permeated the earth with their stores. Well, they got that way for a reason - their coffee is good. Wait, so it's you who claims that movies that make a lot of money are automatically good!
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Mar 11, 2016 17:30
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Boob Marley posted:Again, you're drat right it is. And it's a successful franchise because it delivers on a slew of little things that people love and enjoy. It's not a successful franchise because it runs roughshod over what people know and love about the characters, it's successful because it gives fans of the source material a pay off without excluding general audiences. MoS did neither. You can call Marvel Studios a big evil money machine all day long, but the means of their success, the way in which they accumulate such wealth and success, has had everything to do with the quality of their content. Starbucks is everyone's favorite big-bag company to hate on because they've permeated the earth with their stores. Well, they got that way for a reason - their coffee is good. Case in point, they're like ten movies in and still don't have a black and/or female lead film. justdan posted:Yeah, I hate when Superheroes in Superhero Movies actually, you know, save people! he saved the world
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Mar 11, 2016 17:31
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Darko posted:Well, for instance the sexually repressed society of Krypton having H.R. Giger phallic imagery everywhere. Those kind of visual markers make the Kryptonians "feel" like they're barely containing themselves, which makes it hit harder aesthetically when they're shown bursting around at super high speeds and exploding out of their eyeballs. It's like all of the repression is finally being released with every usage of their powers. I'm not being facetious when I say that this is blowing my goddamn mind. I really want watch MoS again now to get in on this assessment with you. As an aside, everyone, I just learned that your beloved BvS is now officially doomed - it's going up in theaters against My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:31
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Boob Marley posted:Again, you're drat right it is. And it's a successful franchise because it delivers on a slew of little things that people love and enjoy. It's not a successful franchise because it runs roughshod over what people know and love about the characters, it's successful because it gives fans of the source material a pay off without excluding general audiences. MoS did neither. You can call Marvel Studios a big evil money machine all day long, but the means of their success, the way in which they accumulate such wealth and success, has had everything to do with the quality of their content. Starbucks is everyone's favorite big-bag company to hate on because they've permeated the earth with their stores. Well, they got that way for a reason - their coffee is good. They're successful because they are using the Disney model of providing a formula that will appeal to the widest audience possible, and ensure that nobody "hates" it. For another example, look at ultra successful movie Avatar, and look at the trail of online scripts by date that show Cameron starting with a deeper, more interesting movie, and then gradually trimming it down to be more and more formulaic as it got closer to the shooting script. Thus, its success. There's a skill in wide appeal, hell, Hollywood's most popular periods are full of formulaic wide appeal things. However, when it comes to (subjective) artistic merit, generally things that are polarizing at first often have more than things that everyone likes. The polarization normally comes from defying expectations, and one individual embracing it, while another does not. That's why Rotten Tomatoes is always a bad metric. Good/Bad consensus just means that nobody said something sucked or everyone did. Stuff in the 60s/50s is often the polarizing stuff that is sometimes more interesting.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:34
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justdan posted:Yeah, I hate when Superheroes in Superhero Movies actually, you know, save people! "Don't worry little buddy only 12 people died in all those explosions and collapsing buildings in Avengers" - Joss Whedon as he cradles your head in his lap, gently stroking your hair
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Mar 11, 2016 17:34
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justdan posted:Yeah, I hate when Superheroes in Superhero Movies actually, you know, save people! It's actually refreshing compared to "quipping in the face of danger", especially when they try to act all dramatic and serious not long after.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:35
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justdan posted:Yeah, I hate when Superheroes in Superhero Movies actually, you know, save people! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8EydFeuPK8
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Mar 11, 2016 17:36
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Luminous Obscurity posted:they took a risk with Iron Man Yes, that would just be so bold. Having a black and/or female lead is ipso facto artistic and creative.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:36
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computer parts posted:I mean, I could maybe see that argument in 2013 when the only DC movies were 
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Mar 11, 2016 17:37
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and Man of Steel but these days we have a Wonder Woman movie being shot while Black Widow is always the Bridesmaid and the other woman centered Marvel film is still TBA.
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Boob Marley posted:I'm not being facetious when I say that this is blowing my goddamn mind. MoS has a ton of visual details that align with the text on screen, and a lot of little imagery tricks that are constantly manipulating your emotions. Snyder actually draws and storyboards, so his imagery has a ton of "meaning" and thought behind why everything is exactly what it is. Again, I think the movie is a bit disjointed and could be better in many places, but I'll be damned if it isn't one of the most visually interesting of the current superhero movies, if not the most. I always appreciate being able to look at things over and over and find new things to appreciate.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:37
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Darko posted:They're successful because they are using the Disney model of providing a formula that will appeal to the widest audience possible, and ensure that nobody "hates" it. Yup.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:38
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Boob Marley posted:Yes, that would just be so bold. Having a black and/or female lead is ipso facto artistic and creative. Compared to the MCU, this is actually true.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:39
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Boob Marley posted:Yes, that would just be so bold. Having a black and/or female lead is ipso facto artistic and creative. In Hollywood, it kind of is. Hollywood is racist and misogynist as gently caress. Challenging that status quo, particularly when you're a huge 'brand' like Marvel Studios is a bold statement. Look at the reactions to the new Star Wars film.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:41
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I actually agree with his first tweet, he just loses me at the second. Banner and Stark just seem like they should probably get drunk and make out.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:42
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Luminous Obscurity posted:They're successful because they took a risk with Iron Man and have been playing it safe ever since, I'm not questioning their financial success I'm questioning that they have 'creative and artistic integrity.' I think it's pretty unreasonable to say something like Iron Man 3 has no creative or artistic integrity. Regardless of your own personal feelings about the film doing an Iron Man film featuring minimal Iron Man Suit where the suit is treated like a diposable toy the protagonist needs to get around and the villain is an explicit criticism of both America cultural in general and a lesser criticism of fans and arguably even the studio. You can argue it failed and you're free to do so but pretending like it was just a random thing they shat out without care is pretty disingenuous.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:43
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Touche, I honestly forgot about IM3. 
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Mar 11, 2016 17:44
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how about just not thinking about shipping, though? Like, at all.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:44
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Slugworth posted:I actually agree with his first tweet, he just loses me at the second. Banner and Stark just seem like they should probably get drunk and make out. People shipping Batman and Superman has been a thing for decades, though.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:44
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Luminous Obscurity posted:In Hollywood, it kind of is. Hollywood is racist and misogynist as gently caress. Challenging that status quo, particularly when you're a huge 'brand' like Marvel Studios is a bold statement. Look at the reactions to the new Star Wars film. At least the MCU incorporates women and minorities as main characters. Where the hell is my Wonder Woman Movie? The DCU has the most iconic female lead of all time and instead of setting up a wannabe Justice League movie on the already dispelled premise of Batman fighting Superman, why not give us a Wonder Woman movie somewhere in that 3 year silence between MoS and now to bolster the whole Justice League premise? I'm out to lunch, I'll be back to disappoint you later.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:44
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this seems like a weird pair of tweets to make before bvs is even out and we haven't yet seen where bats and supes relation to each other are at by the end of the film
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Mar 11, 2016 17:45
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Grendels Dad posted:how about just not thinking about shipping, though? Like, at all. I ship Boob Marley with MisterBibs after the last few days If y'all wanna ship me with another CD goon, that's fine because that's okay
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Mar 11, 2016 17:45
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Boob Marley posted:Where the hell is my Wonder Woman Movie? It's shooting right now and it's coming out next year. Where's my Black Widow movie?
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Mar 11, 2016 17:46
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Grendels Dad posted:how about just not thinking about shipping, though? Like, at all. Oh well yeah, obviously, but now that it's been brought up, you know? But yeah, I am fine with Mulder never breaking that sexual tension with Skinner.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:46
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Even ignoring saving the world, Superman in that film is saving individuals and groups of people all over the place, often at great risk of injury or actual injury to himself. It's like the loudest complainers about the movie didn't even watch it.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:47
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computer parts posted:Compared to the MCU, this is actually true. Neither Marvel or DC are doing particularly great here. Black Panther is announced, Wonder Woman is announced, neither have come out and both are being debuted in someone else's film. It's not a case of either/or in this case, both need to shape up. DC having fewer films doesn't mean a lot when they have a long history of films not doing it. ... that said, is there some reason people keep going "MoS was the first and only DCU film" and ignore Green Lantern. Does the fact it failed suddenly mean it doesn't count as an attempt?
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Mar 11, 2016 17:47
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Boob Marley posted:At least the MCU incorporates women and minorities as main characters. boy i have some good news for you; they're filming a wonder woman movie right now and it's gonna come out before marvel releases a woman-led film despite having like, 6 years of a head start
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Mar 11, 2016 17:47
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ImpAtom posted:
The fact that it's not part of the DCU. They're doing another Green Lantern film in like 2020 but Ryan Reynolds will not be part of it.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:48
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computer parts posted:The fact that it's not part of the DCU. They're doing another Green Lantern film in like 2020 but Ryan Reynolds will not be part of it. Yeah but like... they intended it to be, it just failed and so they're pretending it didn't happen. When people are bringing up the Nolan trilogy it feels weird for everyone to forget that DC had another film it was just something everyone is pretending didn't happen.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:50
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tbh I'm willing to cut DC some slack on being so tentative with making a Wonder Woman film specifically because she has a ton of symbolic value to people as a feminist icon and if you gently caress up a WW movie its not like making a bad Batman or Superman where people just shrug and wait for the next one, a bad WW film would be a loving landmine of bad press. still no excuse for not doing other woman-led films tho
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Mar 11, 2016 17:51
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ImpAtom posted:... that said, is there some reason people keep going "MoS was the first and only DCU film" and ignore Green Lantern. Does the fact it failed suddenly mean it doesn't count as an attempt? It counts as much as the first Hulk movie and Daredevil and Elektra. And the Blade movies. And all the Superman movies before MoS. And all the Batman films. And Howard The Duck.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:51
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Boob Marley posted:At least the MCU incorporates women and minorities as main characters. Sucide Squad has a black man as a main character and four female main characters (two of them are non-white and another is played by an openly bisexual woman.) A movie about dangerous supervillians is more diverse than most of the MCU. Equeen fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 11, 2016 |
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Mar 11, 2016 17:52
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah but like... they intended it to be, it just failed and so they're pretending it didn't happen. When people are bringing up the Nolan trilogy it feels weird for everyone to forget that DC had another film it was just something everyone is pretending didn't happen. It's also because no one saw it, and there's very little indication that any subsequent films are going to be anything like it. (Zach Snyder is basically determining the whole tone of this universe)
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Mar 11, 2016 17:53
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Grendels Dad posted:how about just not thinking about shipping, though? Like, at all. Too late, lover.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:55
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Skwirl posted:Too late, lover. You and me, OTP.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:56
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Equeen posted:Sucide Squad has a black man as a main character and four female main characters (two of them are non-white and another is played by an openly bisexual woman. A movie about dangerous supervillians is more diverse than most of the MCU. That's actually an interesting element. Suicide Squad is a more diverse film but it's also a film about criminals and villains. This kinda plays directly into the Hollywood cliche. That doesn't mean DC is wrong or bad for doing or or anything, just that it's not exactly breaking the mold either. I think when people say a female-lead film or a black-lead film they mean one about a heroic character rather than, at best, a somewhat heroic criminal.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:56
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Boob Marley posted:Yes, that would just be so bold. Having a black and/or female lead is ipso facto artistic and creative. Wow really? Okay that's the tone to take here.
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Mar 11, 2016 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:That's actually an interesting element. Suicide Squad is a more diverse film but it's also a film about criminals and villains. This kinda plays directly into the Hollywood cliche. That doesn't mean DC is wrong or bad for doing or or anything, just that it's not exactly breaking the mold either. I think when people say a female-lead film or a black-lead film they mean one about a heroic character rather than, at best, a somewhat heroic criminal. This is a really stupid point to draw hairs over. When you get down to it, ALL super heroes are criminals. What makes them heroes is that they're saving the world, which the Suicide Squad are doing. Also DC is the only company that has a history of TRYING to make female super hero movies, even if they've never turned out...good. Marvel never has.
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Mar 11, 2016 18:04
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Burkion posted:This is a really stupid point to draw hairs over. Electra?
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Mar 11, 2016 18:06
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ImpAtom posted:That's actually an interesting element. Suicide Squad is a more diverse film but it's also a film about criminals and villains. This kinda plays directly into the Hollywood cliche. That doesn't mean DC is wrong or bad for doing or or anything, just that it's not exactly breaking the mold either. I think when people say a female-lead film or a black-lead film they mean one about a heroic character rather than, at best, a somewhat heroic criminal. I'm willing to bet part of Suicide Squad will be informing the audience about how some of these characters became villains because of their circumstances instead of by choice. The only one admitting to loving crime for the sake of crime being the pasty white, green haired fella.
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