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ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

Budget Dracula posted:

Yeah we aren't going to try chemo, it would be too expensive plus the side affects. It started as a bump on his head we noticed one day, the first vet drained it completely of mucus and it tested fine. The second vet did a CT scan on him and noted the mass has begun to go through the bone which caused the fluid build up. They took samples but I declined testing because of the bone issue. The second vet didn't do such a hot job of draining it (the first vet drained it completely and stapled him up, we thought that was the end of it until it came back) which along with his nose left him a big bloody mess. I thought I was going to have to put him down this upcoming weekend but now the bleeding has subsided a great deal and for the most part he is acting normal, especially if he thinks it is time to eat. I took him to the dog park today but forgot how he likes to go up to strangers for attention and was waiting he was going to blow some bloody snot on someone's face so I am going to stick to walking/hiking with him.

Where did you get your yunnan baiyao from? The places the vet recommended didn't work out and the holistic healer that prescribe it want us to get a $200 consultation done on him first.

Bella's started as a bump near the front of her nose. In our case, the swelling started from the front and moved toward her cranial cavity up her sinuses. We were "fortunate" that her mass periodically drained itself - the skin grew so tight around her nose and eye that it ruptured. The first time it was mostly mucosal mixed with a bit of blood, the second and final time it was almost entirely blood and nearly a pint of it, and wasn't even completely drained; that was about when we knew it was time to ease her suffering. We've also realized now that in her last few weeks that she could no longer close her eye to sleep on the side of her face where the mass was largest (when she could sleep) because of the pressure around her orbital socket. :(

Like your pup, Bella was active and playful and had an appetite up until we had her put to rest. She got tired more and more easily up until the end, but still chased and walked. It made letting her go that much harder and that much worse. We could tell that even though she was clearly uncomfortable and in pain, she loved us so much that she ignored it to be with us.

The mass may start draining on its own. Get some Band-Aid topical antiseptic with lidocaine and gently wipe the wound area clean, don't try and bandage it, let it breathe and drain as much as you can. Your pup will probably feel a lot better afterwards. It will likely recur though and you should be prepared for the swelling to increase around the mass area.

Once you start the yunnan baiyao, the nosebleeds should stop almost completely unless you run him with a ball or chase. The caplets are about the size of a Tylenol gelcap, just cover them in a fingertip sized glob of peanut butter and your boy should take it pretty easily.

You shouldn't need a prescription or anything to get it, but it is fairly rare because it's an import and solely manufactured in China - I bought it OTC from an apothecary named Six Persimmons in Boulder, CO. It cost me $20 for 16 pills, so about $40 for about one month's supply assuming you dose 1x daily.

ex post facho fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 8, 2016

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Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006
is that a common thing with GSDs?

joe944
Jan 31, 2004

What does not destroy me makes me stronger.
Some of these stories are really sad. Makes me think of my golden/aussie mix that passed about 4 years ago.

I won't really have too much time to think about it though, because I just brought home a 10 week old lab/aussie pup on Sunday. He sure does love humping, hopefully he gets over that soon.

Here are a couple videos of the little rascal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egW1gvfRFpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwaVdRDqLaU

joe944 fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 8, 2016

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

Dyna Soar posted:

is that a common thing with GSDs?

What I've read is that long-snouted breeds are more at risk for nasal cancers but the occurrence rate is still quite low, I seem to remember 3% as the number of GSDs that experience some form of it.

The worst part about nasal cancer in dogs is that it's virtually undetectable until it's essentially too late to do anything. It presents initially as a nosebleed and reverse sneezing, both (somewhat) common events in dogs, especially long-snouted breeds. By the time most owners - like me - notice that the nosebleeds are recurring and the sneezing/reverse sneezing is getting worse, the mass has usually begun to metastasize.

In the future, I would immediately move to consult with a veterinarian/oncologist if that happens.

ex post facho fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Mar 8, 2016

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008

Lina has a spot on her hip that she's been licking and nipping raw. We're planning to take her to the vet, but in the meantime is it safe to use anti-biotic and anti-itch cream on it? (It's not fleas or ticks fwiw, she's already on a monthly anti parasite medicine and there's no sign of them on her or her bedding.)

The Zombie Guy
Oct 25, 2008

Is there such a thing as walking too far with a small dog?

With the weather getting nicer, I've been taking my little guy (a Chihuahua mix) for longer walks. The last couple days, we've been doing about 4km.
He keeps a good pace, and he isn't overly tired when we get home. My wife is a bit worried about me over-exercising him because he's small.
I'm more of the mind-frame that as long as he's keeping up the same pace, and he's not sore or falling over exhausted afterwards, then he's ok.

Any thoughts?

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009

The Zombie Guy posted:

Is there such a thing as walking too far with a small dog?

With the weather getting nicer, I've been taking my little guy (a Chihuahua mix) for longer walks. The last couple days, we've been doing about 4km.
He keeps a good pace, and he isn't overly tired when we get home. My wife is a bit worried about me over-exercising him because he's small.
I'm more of the mind-frame that as long as he's keeping up the same pace, and he's not sore or falling over exhausted afterwards, then he's ok.

Any thoughts?
Anecdotal but I take my tiny dogs (<10 lbs) on similarly long hikes and long walks all the time. They are really fit and I do keep an eye on them though. Sometimes you can tell they're flagging a bit and getting tired when they stop zooming to sniff all over the place. I usually give them a water break for 10minutes when that happens.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
So, clumbers versus (English) cockers, what are the relative pros and cons? Speak to me, gentle goons, for I am curious.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

Rangpur posted:

Lina has a spot on her hip that she's been licking and nipping raw. We're planning to take her to the vet, but in the meantime is it safe to use anti-biotic and anti-itch cream on it? (It's not fleas or ticks fwiw, she's already on a monthly anti parasite medicine and there's no sign of them on her or her bedding.)

Neosporin is fine in SMALL quantities because it's super likely they're going to lick it off. If it's possible, get her an e-collar so she'll leave the spot the gently caress alone. Petsmart even carries them these days.

Invalid Octopus
Jun 30, 2008

When is dinner?

Darth Walrus posted:

So, clumbers versus (English) cockers, what are the relative pros and cons? Speak to me, gentle goons, for I am curious.

Are you UK or US (or elsewhere) based?

e: nm checked your thread history, I've blabbed at you about clumbers a lot already. I don't have much experience with show bred cockers, but working cockers are pretty nuts. Cockers generally are more popular by a huge amount, so you'll have an easier time getting one.

Invalid Octopus fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Mar 9, 2016

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Invalid Octopus posted:

Are you UK or US (or elsewhere) based?

e: nm checked your thread history, I've blabbed at you about clumbers a lot already. I don't have much experience with show bred cockers, but working cockers are pretty nuts. Cockers generally are more popular by a huge amount, so you'll have an easier time getting one.

Yeah, my initial vibe from some cursory Internet research was that while they were broadly similar sorts of dogs, clumbers are less physically manageable (more hair, more drool, just plain bigger), but more psychologically manageable - chiller, less clingy and yappy, less likely to wig out for no real reason. Health concerns were different, but they were both roughly as healthy overall. That feel right?

Invalid Octopus
Jun 30, 2008

When is dinner?

Darth Walrus posted:

Yeah, my initial vibe from some cursory Internet research was that while they were broadly similar sorts of dogs, clumbers are less physically manageable (more hair, more drool, just plain bigger), but more psychologically manageable - chiller, less clingy and yappy, less likely to wig out for no real reason. Health concerns were different, but they were both roughly as healthy overall. That feel right?

Yep. I'd also say for both there's a fair bit of variation within the breeds (wrt to energy level, coat, etc), so if you go the breeder route (more necessary if you go for a clumber), make sure you really like their dogs in particular (and don't necessarily discount the breed if you don't). I mean, good idea generally, but something to keep in mind

Kluliss
Mar 6, 2011

Cake, is it a drug, or is it simply a delicious chocolatey piece of heaven?
I think my dog's brain is broken. I'm trying (again and) again with the 'be quiet and I'll give you treats' thing and it's really hard to get her to a point where she's quiet enough to click. Should I tie it to a verbal command or is it better to make quiet into a hand signal? I'm really struggling with this as she is perpetually hungry, and therefore perpetually loud. She is mostly Staffie so talkative is in her nature but...

Is it ok to click for quieter-than-before and work my way down to silence? She really doesn't seem to get it unless I have a treat in my hand and I'd like to have this be training rather than bribery (as has been pointed out to me previously :D incidentally, she comes when called even if there's nothing in my hand, but she'd rather I had a treat for her (and a large percentage of the time, I do).

We've had a lot of success with getting her to be ok with other dogs by basically pouring treats in her mouth and telling her how awesome she is when we're out walking and she sees a dog - she knows she has to look at the dog in order to get the treat, and she's now at the point where a dog which isn't bouncing at her (or a black dog, or very large) doesn't cause her concern even if it's being walked straight past her, as long as it's not straining towards her...

I try to make sure she gets enough exercise to counteract all the extra food (dear god I will never try to reduce her actual meals by the amount of kibble she gets, that was the worst day of my life for sheer volume and consistency of yelling.) but she's not a fatty so I think she'll cope!

I'm really hoping just treating whenever she's quiet is the right way to go, I'm getting really frustrated with the noise levels.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Kluliss posted:

I think my dog's brain is broken. I'm trying (again and) again with the 'be quiet and I'll give you treats' thing and it's really hard to get her to a point where she's quiet enough to click. Should I tie it to a verbal command or is it better to make quiet into a hand signal? I'm really struggling with this as she is perpetually hungry, and therefore perpetually loud. She is mostly Staffie so talkative is in her nature but...

Is it ok to click for quieter-than-before and work my way down to silence? She really doesn't seem to get it unless I have a treat in my hand and I'd like to have this be training rather than bribery (as has been pointed out to me previously :D incidentally, she comes when called even if there's nothing in my hand, but she'd rather I had a treat for her (and a large percentage of the time, I do).

We've had a lot of success with getting her to be ok with other dogs by basically pouring treats in her mouth and telling her how awesome she is when we're out walking and she sees a dog - she knows she has to look at the dog in order to get the treat, and she's now at the point where a dog which isn't bouncing at her (or a black dog, or very large) doesn't cause her concern even if it's being walked straight past her, as long as it's not straining towards her...

I try to make sure she gets enough exercise to counteract all the extra food (dear god I will never try to reduce her actual meals by the amount of kibble she gets, that was the worst day of my life for sheer volume and consistency of yelling.) but she's not a fatty so I think she'll cope!

I'm really hoping just treating whenever she's quiet is the right way to go, I'm getting really frustrated with the noise levels.

I think the bigger question here is why she's barking. The 'look at another dog/distracting thing/thing you usually react to' and get treats is great to combat barking due to arousal and reactivity. If she's barking at something outside the window, teaching a super-powerful recall command (with a different cue) that always results in a jackpot can help. If she's barking because of frustration or boredom, working on the protocol for relaxation may help. Teaching a behavior that's incompatible with barking - like lie down with chin on the ground - can also be easier than teaching a quiet command.

Kluliss
Mar 6, 2011

Cake, is it a drug, or is it simply a delicious chocolatey piece of heaven?

Engineer Lenk posted:

I think the bigger question here is why she's barking. The 'look at another dog/distracting thing/thing you usually react to' and get treats is great to combat barking due to arousal and reactivity. If she's barking at something outside the window, teaching a super-powerful recall command (with a different cue) that always results in a jackpot can help. If she's barking because of frustration or boredom, working on the protocol for relaxation may help. Teaching a behavior that's incompatible with barking - like lie down with chin on the ground - can also be easier than teaching a quiet command.

she's not actually barking, she rarely does, but she has a constant whinge unless she's asleep or actively out walking or being fed...you can take her out on a long walk, feed her as soon as you're back, and she'll still whinge. It ranges from an ear-piercing high-pitch whine, down to a low grumble partially under her breath (I'll try to record her tomorrow).

I'll have a look at the link, but currently there's no position (other than face in food) which stops the whinging :/

That said, she's currently curled up behind my back on the sofa, snoozling and therefore actually quiet for once!

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.

Kluliss posted:

she's not actually barking, she rarely does, but she has a constant whinge unless she's asleep or actively out walking or being fed...you can take her out on a long walk, feed her as soon as you're back, and she'll still whinge. It ranges from an ear-piercing high-pitch whine, down to a low grumble partially under her breath (I'll try to record her tomorrow).

I'll have a look at the link, but currently there's no position (other than face in food) which stops the whinging :/

That said, she's currently curled up behind my back on the sofa, snoozling and therefore actually quiet for once!

I have a dog like that and it's annoying as all hell. I just try to keep him too tired to make noise. The more pent-up energy he has the more annoying he is, so getting that energy out helps with the noise level tremendously.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy
When my dog whines all the time I tell her I want to kill her and rip out her stupid doggy brain, then we go play.

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?
My dog is a total passive aggressive seattleite because he won't whine but he'll stare at you and sigh really hard when he wants something and knows he's not getting it.

Avshalom
Feb 14, 2012

by Lowtax

GoingPostal
Jun 1, 2015


I love Derek Smart
U love Derek Smart
If we didn't love Derek Smart, we'd be lame
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but it came across my dash and IIRC there was a lot of interest in dog genetics here?

Complex disease and phenotype mapping in the domestic dog.

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
My fiancee and I are doing a trial adoption of a 4 year old lab/corgi mix (he's interesting-looking).

We love him, but he's really shy. What can we do to ease his transition to our home?

Things we've done--

1) Blocked off an area of the house just for him with access to the back yard. This is a necessity because she has awful, awful cats and we need to slowly introduce them.

2) Put some things with our smell on them in his room;

3) Hung out on the floor with him;

4) Given him high value treats; and

5) Just been gentle and calm with him.

Is there anything else we can do or should do?

EXTREME INSERTION
Jun 4, 2011

by LadyAmbien

GoingPostal posted:

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but it came across my dash and IIRC there was a lot of interest in dog genetics here?

Complex disease and phenotype mapping in the domestic dog.

Yes, thank you, I am obsessed with dog genetics.

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

Pup whizzed on my back seat the other evening and I somehow failed to notice until the next morning. I've treated the seat with what cleaner I have, but my car now smells of cleaner and vaguely of dog piss. I'm debating having it detailed or something since it needed a good going over anyway, any hot tips?

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


Warbird posted:

Pup whizzed on my back seat the other evening and I somehow failed to notice until the next morning. I've treated the seat with what cleaner I have, but my car now smells of cleaner and vaguely of dog piss. I'm debating having it detailed or something since it needed a good going over anyway, any hot tips?
Urine-Off is a superb cleaner for that exact purpose although possibly a UK-only brand.

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?
I've had good luck with Natures Miracle, my dog doesn't seem to have overly smelly urine so it might just be us. Car seats are made with foam so thats what makes it difficult getting the smell out, foam acts like a sponge so it retains moisture fairly well. Spray the area pretty good, then vacuum the liquid out with a strong wet vacuum. Then if you have the option, let your car air out, possibly in the sun.

If its especially terrible you can consider renting a carpet cleaner.

After not having driven my car in a little while, I noticed its starting to smell like dog which is funny since he's only ever in his kennel in the back. Time to give it a good thorough cleaning I suppose.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
Well, Worf is finally beginning to "turn on". Thankfully, since you all were very stern about making sure I didn't have delusions about my pit bull we've been watching for signs of it and weren't caught off guard. With Thor he's still as gentle as a lamb, but, when we're outside on a walk, any other animal in sight incites lunging against the leash and barking and all that. We're upping our training efforts to develop some strategies to pull his attention. I know you can't train out the instinct to go after other animals, but I'm hopeful we can at least train him to a point where we can redirect his attention.

We're both feeling pretty guilty, because the shelter we adopted him from had assured us he was safe with other dogs, good natured, etc and we just took their word on it. Now his drives and dog aggression are kicking in and we're not 100% sure we can handle it. That sucks for him because he's an adorable dog and he's an absolute sweetheart to people, but if we can't get this under control we're doing him a disservice keeping him, but I hate the idea that we adopted a dog just to rehome it a year and a half down the line. Even if we were lacking information when we took him, that's our own fault and it sucks that he might bear the consequences of that.

So, with that said, those of you who have lots of pit bull experience, can you give me some advice on how to manage an adolescent/early adulthood pit bull's instincts? We were going to work on carrying treats+his favorite toy on walks and when he notices another animal try to get him to play with the toy instead and reward playing with the toy. He's only really able to focus on one thing at a time so once his focus is off the other animal the other animal may as well not exist. Is this a valid approach, or too light touch? Not looking to do any Cesar Milan bullshit and beat my dog into submission so he can go off "suddenly without warning" on some toddler's face 3 years down the line.

Some of our friends who own pitbulls insist they grow back out of this really over-the-top level of chasing/barking at other animals after a while, but y'all have indicated before that that's not always the case and I want to get out ahead of this and stay ahead.

And yes, I know, you told me so :(

Ausrotten
Mar 9, 2016

STILL A HUGE FUCKIN DICK
Please, please don't make the assumption that he's going to remain ok with Thor especially considering they're the same sex. I don't have pit experience but all of my GSDs are DA and dogs who were previously fine with each other over time became extremely same-sex aggressive after they 'turned on'. It took a while after the DA popped up for them to aggress on dogs who were previously their friends but it's happened with every DA dog I've owned (aka all of them)

BAT (behavior adjustment training) has made the biggest difference in my dogs being able to tolerate the existence other dogs. Counter conditioning/desensitization helped a bit but BAT produced a very dramatic improvement. I still wouldn't trust any of them nose to nose with a strange dog of the same sex but now my male can coexist on the same field as another dog without trying to murder it.

Honestly I have some doubts about how much effect cc/ds protocols can actually alter hardwired self reinforcing behaviors like DA. If it was fear based, sure but (imo) no amount of treat shoveling is going to make a dog who loves fighting stop wanting to fight. The best you can do is accept that your dog loves fighting over dogs and work on changing the behavior. That desire is always going to be there.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
Does BAT work if the dogs he's zeroing in on are behind fences, barking out windows, etc? I don't think our neighbors are going to be willing to volunteer their dogs to work with us, unfortunately, because another neighborhood dog attacked a dog on our street recently and now everyone gives each other dirty looks and crosses the street with their dogs when other dogs are approaching.

Like, would you suggest that when we're approaching a house that we know has an animal that Triggers Worf that we pause some distance away, wait for calm behavior, reward, inch closer, repeat?

And yeah, that's good advice not to assume he'll be fine with Thor forever. We never leave him loose in the house unless he's directly supervised, so he shouldn't have much opportunity to get into trouble in that regard.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

I want to remind all readers of the thread with potentially DA dogs that this:



Was taken a very few short months before Amy ripped Kaydee up, broke several ribs, cocked one of her teeth the wrong way in her jaw, popped her sternum partially sideways and all around hosed Her Up Real Good.

They literally played in the same yard, with the same things happening, that morning. Perfectly fine and normal. And that evening they lost Kaydee on the vet table three times before they got her up and stabilized and she still took over a month to heal. Her sternum still isn't straight. And We Were Right loving There. Or else I wouldn't have Kaydee anymore. We were literally three feet away when the fight started.

Don't play with DA when it starts unless you know how to break up a dog fight. I DO know how to break up a dog fight and it still resulted in incredible amounts of damage in approximately thirty five seconds of mauling.

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015
I TOLD U!!!!111


When my dogs turn on I go to full rotation even with the dogs they're still fine with while I map out that "new" part of their personality and exactly how it manifests because it's VERY individual.

AsYouWish fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Mar 11, 2016

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015
My personal opinion is that it's not worth it to work on keeping him ~alright~ with other dogs; it ALWAYS results in a bunch of repression and frustration that can become explosive unless you REALLY know what you're doing (and a lot of the time, even then.) I'd keep his contact with other dogs to a minimum from now on if you want him to remain on good terms with your other dog- any negative experiences he has (and it's often out of your control) with other dogs could translate to him suddenly not being okay with your other dog at home. Maintaining his relationship with your other dog should be the biggest priority and the best way to do that is to just take other dogs out of the equation. I'm not saying that it is impossible to get a DA pit bull to where it's mostly fine with other dogs (mine are in supervised, small doses) it's just that most behaviorists aren't going to know how and it's usually not worth it for the average owner to try and gently caress around with.

Buy a break stick before you need one.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

AsYouWish posted:

My personal opinion is that it's not worth it to work on keeping him ~alright~ with other dogs; it ALWAYS results in a bunch of repression and frustration that can become explosive unless you REALLY know what you're doing (and a lot of the time, even then.) I'd keep his contact with other dogs to a minimum from now on if you want him to remain on good terms with your other dog- any negative experiences he has (and it's often out of your control) with other dogs could translate to him suddenly not being okay with your other dog at home. Maintaining his relationship with your other dog should be the biggest priority and the best way to do that is to just take other dogs out of the equation. I'm not saying that it is impossible to get a DA pit bull to where it's mostly fine with other dogs (mine are in supervised, small doses) it's just that most behaviorists aren't going to know how and it's usually not worth it for the average owner to try and gently caress around with.

Buy a break stick before you need one.

Yeah, I don't expect him to actually like interact with and hang out with other dogs. We just need to get him to where he doesn't lunge wildly on the leash whenever he detects another animal while we're on a walk with him. We can plan our routes to minimize issues, but you can't control whether another person happens to be walking their dog down the same street and we need to be able to keep him under control in those situations. I have no plans for him to hang out with any dogs other than Thor ever again.

I'd never heard of a break stick before. Is this page's information decent? http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Ausrotten
Mar 9, 2016

STILL A HUGE FUCKIN DICK
It means you immediately need to find a different way to exercise him. I can't take vecna on walks because there's no way to guarantee he won't come nose to nose with a strange dog and if they bother him, he'll send them to the cleaners. Before I had a lot of land that meant going to parks at weird hours and exercising him on leash.

Ausrotten
Mar 9, 2016

STILL A HUGE FUCKIN DICK

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Does BAT work if the dogs he's zeroing in on are behind fences, barking out windows, etc? I don't think our neighbors are going to be willing to volunteer their dogs to work with us, unfortunately, because another neighborhood dog attacked a dog on our street recently and now everyone gives each other dirty looks and crosses the street with their dogs when other dogs are approaching.

Like, would you suggest that when we're approaching a house that we know has an animal that Triggers Worf that we pause some distance away, wait for calm behavior, reward, inch closer, repeat?

And yeah, that's good advice not to assume he'll be fine with Thor forever. We never leave him loose in the house unless he's directly supervised, so he shouldn't have much opportunity to get into trouble in that regard.

I'd suggest picking up the BAT book and going from there. But like AsYouWish said your bigger priority needs to be keeping him ok around Thor and keeping him away from other dogs full stop is the way to go right now especially since you're just starting to see his DA manifest.

Ausrotten fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 11, 2016

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015

LeftistMuslimObama posted:



So, with that said, those of you who have lots of pit bull experience, can you give me some advice on how to manage an adolescent/early adulthood pit bull's instincts? We were going to work on carrying treats+his favorite toy on walks and when he notices another animal try to get him to play with the toy instead and reward playing with the toy. He's only really able to focus on one thing at a time so once his focus is off the other animal the other animal may as well not exist. Is this a valid approach, or too light touch? Not looking to do any Cesar Milan bullshit and beat my dog into submission so he can go off "suddenly without warning" on some toddler's face 3 years down the line.

This is actually what I was going to suggest, so good on you for taking this approach. I usually take the highest value tug toy I have and direct them onto that and then let them shake and tug the poo poo out of it when they see another dog. If I notice the approaching dog before they do I'll also try to get their attention ("look at me" is a good command to learn but don't expect them to do it at first in high arousal situations) and jog past while praising the poo poo out of them and sometimes that can be enough to get them to pass a dog without too much drama. If not, I bust out the toy.

I did start changing my routes to places/times when there weren't too many dogs around being walked. Especially at first, when they're learning to control themselves, having to pass too many animals can send them over the top and you want to try to keep them from ever reaching that threshold if you can. Personally, if it were me, I would stop taking him for walks. I don't walk my pits anymore. I can, they know how to act if I do, it's just less stressful for everyone. He doesn't need walks. Invest in a carpet mill and springpole. They're what I use to exercise my dogs now and they're happy and fine.

quote:


Some of our friends who own pitbulls insist they grow back out of this really over-the-top level of chasing/barking at other animals after a while, but y'all have indicated before that that's not always the case and I want to get out ahead of this and stay ahead.

And yes, I know, you told me so :(

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. In my experience it depends entirely how they're handled once they turn on. It usually starts with one or two little bitch fights and then One Big One. After the One Big One, I separate them completely- total lockdown, crate and rotate, and try to keep them from even SEEING each other for 2-3 months so they have time to cool down. They don't even need to see each other through barriers because that can wind them up more. After that cool down period, I gradually reintroduce them, off leash, in one room, letting them hang out together for maybe 10-15 minutes at a time and refocusing their attention on me when they get too interested in each other.

Toys and chews need to be on lock down. They will often channel their DA into resource guarding so there needs to be no resources to guard, at least at first. I have to constantly make sure there are no toys or chews out in the house or yard ever. They get chews in their crate and we play with toys individually. If I allow them to play with each other at all, I have to constantly have an eye and ear open so I can tell them to leave each other alone when one of them starts to escalate and they are NEVER allowed to play with toys together. "Leave it" needs to be the strongest command they know. If you handle it right, they will definitely calm down a bit after the first year or so, once they learn boundaries and how to handle themselves. Few stay as hot as when they first turn on forever.

It sounds really hard but it really isnt, you just have to kind of shift what you want and expect from your dog. They can still have a fulfilling and happy life with their poo poo on lockdown and highly managed. My shitlords are happy and fine and all the pit bulls I've ever owned have done fine. It's overwhelming at first but once you get into the routine it's really no biggie.


AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015

LeftistMuslimObama posted:


I'd never heard of a break stick before. Is this page's information decent? http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Yep, I try to avoid rescue sites for most info but that page is pretty solid.

Personally I break up my dogs with my hands but most people don't wanna jam their hands in there and I don't blame them I guess.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

I have no pit experience, so take this with a grain of salt, but it might be worth getting him used to being muzzled. You need to get a good muzzle, and you need to spend a lot of time making sure he thinks its the best thing in the world. The muzzle can help you create a safer situation if you get ambushed by a "friendly" dog or need to take him to the vets. Think of it as a safety device rather than a way to prevent anything, its just there to help keep you from catastrophe.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



I remember when I first realized my dog just wanted to murder and how crushing it was at the time looking at all the things I needed to change about my lifestyle and his management to keep him and everyone else safe. It's a really hard, scary thing to face. But trust me if you put in the time and the effort he'll still be your buddy. After a while you don't even notice all the things you do that are different than what people with "normal" dogs do. If your dog can't handle walks, don't take walks until he can. If your dog has a lot of trouble in the lobby at the vet's office, wait outside and ask them to call you when you can come in. If your dog loves training but can't deal with other dogs in class you can take online classes. There are tons of management options out there now and your dog will can lead a perfectly happy and safe life.

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015

wtftastic posted:

I have no pit experience, so take this with a grain of salt, but it might be worth getting him used to being muzzled. You need to get a good muzzle, and you need to spend a lot of time making sure he thinks its the best thing in the world. The muzzle can help you create a safer situation if you get ambushed by a "friendly" dog or need to take him to the vets. Think of it as a safety device rather than a way to prevent anything, its just there to help keep you from catastrophe.

Honestly I wouldn't reccomend this (ilu and im not snooting but :shobon: ) A pit (and I'm sure many other DA dogs) can then go on to start a fight with its body language and have no way to back it up, which can turn into them hyping up their dog intolerance if/when they have a bad experience. Honestly the focus needs to be on the owner keeping the dog out of situations where a fight can happen, especially at first. That isn't to say that tolerating a muzzle isn't a good skill for all dogs to learn, just that it isn't really helpful when it comes to managing a DA dog and it could potentially lead to "worsening" their behavior under the right circumstances.

edit: ("worsening" is in quotes because it's helpful for pit owners to realize that their dogs aren't "bad." This is what they were bred for. You wouldn't be embarrassed and ashamed that your labrador was interested in retrieving; and you shouldnt be ashamed that your pit bull is dog aggressive. They're doing what we made them to do!)

AsYouWish fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Mar 12, 2016

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AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015

Instant Jellyfish posted:

I remember when I first realized my dog just wanted to murder and how crushing it was at the time looking at all the things I needed to change about my lifestyle and his management to keep him and everyone else safe. It's a really hard, scary thing to face. But trust me if you put in the time and the effort he'll still be your buddy. After a while you don't even notice all the things you do that are different than what people with "normal" dogs do. If your dog can't handle walks, don't take walks until he can. If your dog has a lot of trouble in the lobby at the vet's office, wait outside and ask them to call you when you can come in. If your dog loves training but can't deal with other dogs in class you can take online classes. There are tons of management options out there now and your dog will can lead a perfectly happy and safe life.

This; absolutely. I adopted my first mutty pit/hog dog when I was 19 and when he started getting DA I freaked the gently caress out. Now, after nearly 11 years of dealing with a buttload of shitbulls, it's just how dogs work to me. It's second nature and I find myself confused and overwhelmed with dogs that DON'T have to be handled that way.

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