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Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR
This might be interesting to civil war folk, someone on imgur put up a sampling of stuff from his greatx4 grandfather's diary, from the Civil War. http://imgur.com/gallery/UdrFd

quote:

Robert Jackson was apparently captured in Gettysburg when his "ammo belt" (there's a name for it back then) was so heavy it pulled his pants down as he was sprinting causing him to trip and be captured

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Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

HEY GAL posted:

the Baroque is full of really weird art objects

(Platonic solids, one inside the other, of carved ivory)

(A drinking vessel depicting Daphne in silver and coral)

These are the sorts of things that make me, a proud English speaker, default to the French Objets d'art.

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

FAUXTON posted:

Goddamn, that is some poo poo you expect to get described in a William Gibson book, one is the residence machine of some special AI and the other transforms into a gun.

yes you nailed it, in Neuromancer he describes this creepy computer terminal that is a reproduction of a human head and neck complete with functional windpipe, that would speak out interactions instead of using a synth voice. It was supposed to be a sorta baroque style work of art, adorned with lapis and whatnot. Hegel's guys would have totally loved it. I mean, poo poo:

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME
nature, for The Baroque, is:
  • indefinitely productive, indefinitely mutable. capable of metamorphosis. sometimes grotesque
  • decaying, doomed
  • a source of magical insight, full of hidden clues to a higher, more perfectly-ordered reality, which the initiated can decipher
  • actually magical, like the correspondences between different precious stones and different planets in the zodiac, or magnetism
  • a threat to you
also art and drama can influence the world on a basically magical level because it's not just an art thing to look at, it'll change the way your life is by being there. like when Louis XIV puts on dances where he's the Sun God and the members of his court are the planets, this has a real political effect. he mirrors in his real life the mythical reality of which he is a type, hoping to feed that influence back down into earthly life

put all this stuff together and you get some deeply strange art products.


"Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II re-imagined as Vertumnus, the Roman god of metamorphoses in nature and life"
and of course every vegetable in this thing has a symbolic meaning, these people love hidden puzzles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertumnus_(painting)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/arts/design/24arcimboldo.html?_r=0

Rudolf II was the crazy one who locked himself in his palace, collected art, did magic, and had weird sex, instead of paying attention to the various stirrings that would eventually lead to the Thirty Years' War.

like, look at the snakes in that painting loving fight each other while the monstrous head they depended on lies dying. hosed-up nature in its infinite variety

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Mar 12, 2016

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

HEY GAL posted:

nature, for The Baroque, is:
  • indefinitely productive, indefinitely mutable. capable of metamorphosis. sometimes grotesque
  • decaying, doomed
  • a source of magical insight, full of hidden clues to a higher, more perfectly-ordered reality, which the initiated can decipher
  • actually magical, like the correspondences between different precious stones and different planets in the zodiac, or magnetism
  • a threat to you

Some of these things seem mutually exclusive.

quote:

Rudolf II was the crazy one who locked himself in his palace, collected art, did magic, and had weird sex

Nice life if you can get it.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Animal posted:

yes you nailed it, in Neuromancer he describes this creepy computer terminal that is a reproduction of a human head and neck complete with functional windpipe, that would speak out interactions instead of using a synth voice. It was supposed to be a sorta baroque style work of art, adorned with lapis and whatnot. Hegel's guys would have totally loved it.
if my guys knew what a computer was, they would have figured out how to make it give you your horoscope first, and figured out all that darpanet stuff second

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Some of these things seem mutually exclusive.
it varies by author/artist. i dunno, i've just been kicking this stuff around in my head for a while

edit: on the other hand, there definitely is a thing where the louder these dudes scream about Order the more frightened of everything you can tell they are

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 12, 2016

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Nice life if you can get it.
you know the sex is the unwholesome kind though

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Don't doxx vince

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

HEY GAL posted:

you know the sex is the unwholesome kind though


Wait, there's wholesome sex?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Wait, there's wholesome sex?
not when a hapsburg is involved

dublish
Oct 31, 2011


HEY GAL posted:

not when a hapsburg is involved

Be honest. How often is it just a Hapsburg?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

dublish posted:

Be honest. How often is it just a Hapsburg?

can people bud, like yeast

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

dublish posted:

Be honest. How often is it just a Hapsburg?
Well it was usually two Hapsburgs. That had other effects though.

Quinntan
Sep 11, 2013

SeanBeansShako posted:

Remember Ireland had a pretty nasty uprising recently too, and the British Army at the moment is still trying to rebuild after the disasters on the continent. It certainly is more a sane and realistic plan than loving Sealion.

Two, technically, if you want to count Robert Emmet's shenanigans.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

HEY GAL posted:

if my guys knew what a computer was, they would have figured out how to make it give you your horoscope first, and figured out all that darpanet stuff second

it varies by author/artist. i dunno, i've just been kicking this stuff around in my head for a while

edit: on the other hand, there definitely is a thing where the louder these dudes scream about Order the more frightened of everything you can tell they are

What, dare I ask, is the darpanet stuff?

Nebakenezzer posted:

Should I know what a Bangalore torpedo is?

Apparently also good for clearing mines in top-soil according to the manual, but I don't actually know if they worked in that role.

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

HEY GAL posted:

So, since a lot more people were literate during the 30yw than had been earlier (in Western Europe), a bunch of the big generals or political figures were media personalities, almost in the modern sense. (The most famous was Gustavus Adolphus, of course. For those of you who get JSTOR: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/24417366.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents ) Deteriorata and I posted some propaganda, but there was also a trade in art objects related to various causes or various famous people. I've seen a little metal figurine of Gustavus Adolphus in his coffin, but I can't find a picture of it anywhere.

There was also this thing.
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/online_science/explore_our_collections/objects/index/smxg-155317



Memento mori, Wallenstein's bust/skull. Materials: brass, ebony, ivory, stones from his tomb (the original one, not the ones the Nazis put up). Who owned this? Someone in favor of him, to remind them that everyone is mortal? Someone opposed to him? Neutral? And what do you do with something like this once you have one?

I've never thought about how I want on my grave before, but this provided the question and the answer at the same time. Holy poo poo.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Tias posted:

What, dare I ask, is the darpanet stuff?

She means 'inventing the internet' -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Buy the book! Including all-new never-before-seen trying not to laugh or cry at the run-up to the Gorlice-Tarnow Offensive! As part of a general drive to cover the Eastern Front properly this time!

yours truly posted:

So, over on the Russian side of the hill. There is good news; despite the best German efforts to launch diversionary attacks up on the Prussian border, their reconnaissance flights have detected a large number of German troops massing in southern Poland. There's clearly a major attack due here soon, and they've had a critical early warning of it.

Now, pay attention, 007. According to General Brusilov's memoirs, army-group commander General Ivanov refused to listen to the intelligence reports. Not unlike General Joffre in 1914, Ivanov is convinced he knows what the enemy is planning. He's sure that any further German efforts will come in the north, where they've succeeded so often. If his army group is to be attacked, it will certainly be in the eastern Carpathians, and probably by the Austro-Hungarians. Who knows, if von Falkenhayn had committed his strength to the Western Front instead, Ivanov might even have been right. (But then there would be no intelligence reports telling him something different...) So of course there's no need for any more men to go to Gorlice. Well, maybe an extra corps. In a month or so, once it can extract itself from the railway "system". No rush.

Anyway, the bad news continues unabated. In theory, between Gorlice and Tarnow, the Russians have three strong trench systems, and German intelligence assessments describe them as such. The reality is somewhat different. The reality is that there are a lot of parts of the first line that meet the intelligence assessments. There are some that do not. Even those that do rarely have luxuries like "barbed wire" and "communication trenches" And as for the second and third positions...it's so much worse than just "they don't really exist beyond a few randomly-placed scrapes in the ground". Which they don't.

Over the winter, one of army commander General Dimitriev's corps commanders had specifically requested permission to spend time improving the second and third lines. The general refused. His reasoning, and I am not making this up, is that if General Ivanov notices men are spending time improving the trenches, he will consider them surplus to requirements (since if they were really needed, they'd be fighting, or at least garrisoning the first line) and transfer them somewhere else.

My brain hurts now. I think I need to go and lie down. By the way, of course everyone's also squabbling about artillery ammunition, but suddenly that doesn't seem so bad at the moment. Ye gods. Ye gods.

I wrote this a month and a half ago and I am *still* slack-jawed with shock over it. Anyway. Buy the book for a shitload more book-exclusive content. Now, can we please have something uplifting, Mister War?

100 Years Ago

It doesn't look good. We've got to see what happened at Latema Nek. Turned out that tragedy turned into farce. How many times have we seen that happen to British Empire troops this war? But wait...there's something different this time...

Elsewhere, everyone gets the benefit of General Joffre's opinions in person; General Haig moves house; the Russians are planning the Lake Naroch Offensive when they're not attending conferences; Grigoris Balakian says goodbye to Captain Shukri; Edward Mousley hears some sappers fishing Withnail & I style; Henri Desagneaux cracks down on drunks; and after over a year and a half of military service, ]Louis Barthas is finally on the war path about something.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Suspect Bucket posted:

This might be interesting to civil war folk, someone on imgur put up a sampling of stuff from his greatx4 grandfather's diary, from the Civil War. http://imgur.com/gallery/UdrFd

You see, this is a rookie mistake. When routing and fleeing for your life your equipment only slows you down. Toss it, run for the hills and obscure your face if you can so the provincial militia or your own armies cavalry doesn't find you.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Speaking of kit. a fun exercise in equipment management is that one Screaming Eagles game. You get your 20ish paras on the eve of D-Day, and you kit them out. Only that a goodish part of their carrying capacity will be taken up by socks, chocolates, etc. Why would you take that poo poo? Well, in game, it's tied to morale and stuff, and considering how your planned mission will immediately go haywire as you lose 50-80% of your dudes to drop shenanigans (dropped too far, chute didn't open, broke a leg, was in the plane when it got shot down, etc), you probably need all the morale you can muster.

A fun example of popular misunderstanding of war is that they made a Great War mod for Napoleon: Total War. Oh the friendly fire that happens when one company fires through another (and they will do that).

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Trin Tragula posted:

100 Years Ago

Louis Barthas is a cool dude.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004


HEY GAL posted:

So, Animal and I were talking in PMs and he mentioned that I haven't done a lot of talking about the women of the 17th century. In part this is because the women of the Mansfeld Regiment left fewer records than the guys, which is the case for most women of the period. But there is no lack of female badasses in this period, like Julie d'Aubigny, who seems to have screwed/swordfought her way through most of France and the Netherlands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_d%27Aubigny

If you click on that link, don't skim the entry, or you'll miss things like this:


Her entire life was like that. She died at 33.

Ok so she is probably my new hero. This totally owns.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Thanqol posted:

I've never thought about how I want on my grave before, but this provided the question and the answer at the same time. Holy poo poo.
The guys who were killed with him were buried on a gallows hill (lol) in nearby Stříbro, but someone put a pillar up as a memorial. That remained until the late 40s, when the Czech government flattened the thing to put a parade ground there. Which fits, I guess.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Was flat ground really at a premium or was it manly just busy work?

Safety Biscuits
Oct 21, 2010

HEY GAL posted:

the Baroque is full of really weird art objects

(Platonic solids, one inside the other, of carved ivory)

(A drinking vessel depicting Daphne in silver and coral)

These own, Vertumnus owns, head of Medusa owns, Baroque art owns

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

100 Years Ago

Logistics are delicious: a long look at the functioning of the Voie Sacree, the road that kept Verdun supplied. Admiral von Tirpitz resigns in complaint at the refusal to implement unrestricted submarine warfare (gee, isn't it a shame that someone didn't build more U-boats when he had the chance?), Grigoris Balakian is once again trying to get friendly with his Jandarma escort; E.S. Thompson complains about having to march; Edward Mousley goes to see the horses in Kut; Henri Desagneaux complains about the conditions of his rest billet; Private Louis Barthas is extremely satisfied with the conditions of his rest billet (he's about as far back as he can possibly be without falling into the Channel); and Robert Pelissier wonders if he will ever come down from the Hartmannswillerkopf after a month and a half up the line without relief.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

LingcodKilla posted:

Was flat ground really at a premium or was it manly just busy work?

All of Europe pretty much was rebuilding in the late 40s and early 50s (what with the continent having been bombed/shelled/fought over and all). They probably just didn't particularly care.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

There was also a lot of ideological rebuilding happening, too. Between countries trying to establish a post-war nationalist identity and regimes with very different ideological priorities that previous ones, you see a lot of monuments being built, destroyed, and replaced. I don't know if the communists were in charge of Czechoslovakia yet at that point, but that could easily be a component of it.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

HEY GAL posted:

you know the sex is the unwholesome kind though


Nice try dude, but you can't fool me with trying to hide the shape of your chin with a gossamer beard. Anyone is still going to be able to spot that Hapsburg jawline from a mile away.

Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



Trin Tragula posted:

100 Years Ago

Logistics are delicious: a long look at the functioning of the Voie Sacree, the road that kept Verdun supplied. Admiral von Tirpitz resigns in complaint at the refusal to implement unrestricted submarine warfare (gee, isn't it a shame that someone didn't build more U-boats when he had the chance?), Grigoris Balakian is once again trying to get friendly with his Jandarma escort; E.S. Thompson complains about having to march; Edward Mousley goes to see the horses in Kut; Henri Desagneaux complains about the conditions of his rest billet; Private Louis Barthas is extremely satisfied with the conditions of his rest billet (he's about as far back as he can possibly be without falling into the Channel); and Robert Pelissier wonders if he will ever come down from the Hartmannswillerkopf after a month and a half up the line without relief.

I had no idea on the logistics of this thing, it seems incredible.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

The definitive image. Photographs can't quite match it.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

Trin Tragula posted:

The definitive image. Photographs can't quite match it.



Oh, wow.

edit: love the use of light here, this is such a great drawing

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Cyrano4747 posted:

There was also a lot of ideological rebuilding happening, too. Between countries trying to establish a post-war nationalist identity and regimes with very different ideological priorities that previous ones, you see a lot of monuments being built, destroyed, and replaced. I don't know if the communists were in charge of Czechoslovakia yet at that point, but that could easily be a component of it.
Wallenstein ended up coopted by the Czech nationalist imagination so he's OK, but it's probable that someone looked at the names on that pillar and had literally no clue who it was referring to. I'm kind of OK with this though, since the burial site was turned into a parade ground. It seems fitting.

Wallenstein himself was buried in a church on an estate that remained in the possession of his family until after the second world war.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

dublish posted:

Be honest. How often is it just a Hapsburg?
Eventually that tree got very narrow.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME
by the end of the spanish half of the lineage, when two hapsburgs love each other very, very much the resulting union is closer (genetically speaking) than if they had just been siblings to begin with

so, you might be looking at the genetic equivalent of one and a half hapsburgs there

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Mar 14, 2016

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005

HEY GAL posted:

by the end of the spanish half of the lineage, when two hapsburgs love each other very, very much the resulting union is closer (genetically speaking) than if they had just been siblings to begin with

so, you might be looking at the genetic equivalent of one and a half hapsburgs there

Is that why Charles II's crest looked like a bio hazard symbol?




Spacewolf
May 19, 2014
:stare: The resemblance is uncanny.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
:stonklol:

Okay, at this point I believe in a creating God, and his/her ill loving sense of humor.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

HEY GAL posted:

by the end of the spanish half of the lineage, when two hapsburgs love each other very, very much the resulting union is closer (genetically speaking) than if they had just been siblings to begin with

so, you might be looking at the genetic equivalent of one and a half hapsburgs there

I studied genetics and I don't understand how the gently caress this even works

Son of God or son of man, you can't gently caress your sister and expect much good to come of it.

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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
Without getting technical, it works like this -

Genetically, Siblings share the same percentage of DNA with each other as they do their parents - about 50%, give or take a few mutations. Its not the same 50%, as you have 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs - one maternal, one paternal. normally, each choromosome is unique, having been passed down from either the maternal or paternal lines.

When you get to the Hapsburgs, they interbreed these lines, which means people end up with two copies of the same chromosome, and therefore, the percentage that they are related to each other increases - I don't know what the Hapsburgs were exactly, but they had to be pushing towards 75% of the same genes in any given member.

So its not outside the realm of possibility that any two Hapsburgs could be almost genetically identical, except one has a the Y (not a, the) Chromosome instead of two X's. I'm not even going to go into the recessive gene threat that is going on here.

Just look at Charles II for that lesson.

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