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Post 9-11 User posted:I remember when the new bases for Dreadnaughts seemed like a pain. It's very hard to have convincing looking terrain that every model from a 1" base to a gigantic monster/tank can fit onto, the time of having terrain features that can be removed to make way for huge models is now. On this subject, I missed out on 8e, but looking at the models I couldn't imagine actually playing the drat thing. The dragons and griffins look insanely unwieldy and a total pain in the rear end to build and paint. The Mantic Battle Dragon is rinky-dink, but gently caress it, it took me a day to build and it doesn't run into anything on the table.
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Mar 11, 2016 05:05
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I've been out of tabletop gaming for years now, but on a whimsy I decided to check the GW site and see what things looked like these days. What the gently caress happened to WHFB? It looks like it got a rebrand and they changed the names of everything and reduced it to four armies? What?
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Mar 13, 2016 18:35
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Arrgytehpirate posted:I've been out of tabletop gaming for years now, but on a whimsy I decided to check the GW site and see what things looked like these days. Flee. Save yourself.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:39
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Arrgytehpirate posted:I've been out of tabletop gaming for years now, but on a whimsy I decided to check the GW site and see what things looked like these days. They killed WFB and replaced it with terrible, terrible poo poo. All the cool kids are playing X-Wing these days, come join us.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:41
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Arrgytehpirate posted:I've been out of tabletop gaming for years now, but on a whimsy I decided to check the GW site and see what things looked like these days. I recall you from EVE, so I'll put it like this: Do you remember EVE at launch where because there was no tracking Battleship weapons were able to accurately hit and kill a frigate in one shot? The balance in Age of Sigmar is worse than that. Do you know how in fights, both sides pretty much always bring as many people to the fight as they can? Age of Sigmar is down with that, bring as many models as you want to the battle. Do you know how scanning used to be this awful thing that took forever, required a massive investment before you saw any returns, and nobody enjoyed? Age of Sigmar. e: You know how the way you win wars is by making your opponents not want to log in? That's what AoS has done. It has won.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:50
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I'm still reeling from trying to understand the thought process that could have possibly arrived at making a miniatures wargame with no force building rules 
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Mar 13, 2016 18:52
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Oh no it's worse than that. There are force building rules and they actively encourage you to just bring whatever you have, pile them all on the table, and if your opponent has fewer models than you he gets to pick a free win condition. Not fewer points, mind you: fewer models. Your ten skavenslaves is ten times the models as his Nagash. Arrgytehpirate, check out Mantic's Kings of War game. It has support for all of the Warhammer armies now, it's an actually good well-balanced game, and Mantic encourages people to use any models they own instead of forcing them to use Mantic models. Alternatively, if you don't want a large-scale massed battle game, a lot of folks are checking out Frostgrave for skirmish fantasy, X-Wing for a good tabletop minis game where you don't have to paint your minis because they come pre-painted, Warmachine/Hordes for a tabletop skirmish game that is very popular and widespread so you can probably find opponents, Infinity for a skirmish sci fi game with an anime aesthetic, or Malifaux for a skirmish weird goth game with a pretty cool card-based risk mechanic. There's also Dropzone Commander for a 6mm-scale futuristic battle game with cool models and actually sensible objectives-based combat in an urban setting. And if none of those games do anything for you, ask, and there's more to look at. Basically GW exploded Warhammer, and as a result, we are in a new rennaisance of tabletop games from other manufacturers.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:00
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If you don't like AOS there is nothing stopping you from playing 8th editionArrgytehpirate posted:I've been out of tabletop gaming for years now, but on a whimsy I decided to check the GW site and see what things looked like these days. Fantasy was dying a long slow death and GW decided to shake things up and try to appeal to a new audience by revamping it into Age of Sigmar. It's a new setting with some new and old faces. There's still multiple armies like Lizardmen, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Vampire Counts, etc. but they are grouped into 4 "Grand Alliances" called Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction. You can use any model from the Alliance together, like grouping Empire with High Elves and Lizardmen (all Order), or Skaven with Chaos Warriors and Beastmen (all Chaos). AOS did a few things right, like giving people the rules for their models for free and simplifying the combat rules down (they were getting way too bloated). It also introduced a new army, the Stormcast Eternals, that lots of people don't like but I think is pretty cool aesthetically. The transition into the new setting could have been handled better by giving people time to adjust before blasting us with HAMMERSTORM SIGMARITE STORM OF THE ETERNAL HAMMERMAR SIGSTORM. People are very negative about the whole thing because AOS desperately needs more rules about force organization and magic/summoning but GW doesn't seem to care. In my experience most of the people that are the loudest about AOS being bad stopped playing WHFB a long time ago. Pawl fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 19:22
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Or you could play a better game with active support and a growing - rather than shrinking - community.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:25
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Pawl posted:If you don't like AOS there is nothing stopping you from playing 8th edition And actually there's a fan made The 9th Age that adapts 8th and attempts to fix it that is in open beta now.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:25
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BattleMaster posted:I'm still reeling from trying to understand the thought process that could have possibly arrived at making a miniatures wargame with no force building rules Pawl posted:
Safety Factor posted:Flee. Save yourself. Agreed. I'm going back to video games and living card games. PEACE
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Mar 13, 2016 19:37
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Seriously though, if you're interested in a tabletop game, I'd recommend a skirmish game. They have a much smaller buy-in, games go faster, etc. And many of them are actually fun! Leperflesh listed most of the popular ones, but there are a bunch more somewhat-popular games out there, such as my own personal favorite, Dark Age. Just don't give money to GW.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:46
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Leperflesh posted:Oh no it's worse than that. There are force building rules and they actively encourage you to just bring whatever you have, pile them all on the table, and if your opponent has fewer models than you he gets to pick a free win condition. Not fewer points, mind you: fewer models. Your ten skavenslaves is ten times the models as his Nagash. DZC is 10mm and there's also dropfleet which is their space game. Also play historicals like Flames of War and Bolt Action. And Chain of Command. Actually everyone play Chain of Command. Anyone. Please.  Pawl posted:AOS did a few things right, like giving people the rules for their models for free and simplifying the combat rules down (they were getting way too bloated). The combat rules are now just more pointless instead of being less bloated. There's the same amount of resolution steps, but they're more meaningless. This isn't better.
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Mar 13, 2016 19:58
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Skirmish games are superior due to the way they result in much better looking forces. It's so refreshing to see people with beautifully painted minis instead of the warhammer sea of grey that is actively encouraged in the pursuit of keeping up with your local players (buying more stuff).
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Mar 13, 2016 19:59
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The one that was missed out was Infinity - sci-fi skirmish game. A few of these also have free rules - infinity does, Warmachine/Hoards also went free recently, so you can try them out by proxying before spending anything
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Mar 13, 2016 20:24
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Arrgytehpirate posted:
We did it. It was all worth it. Well done everyone, well done.
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Mar 13, 2016 20:30
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Pawl posted:If you don't like AOS there is nothing stopping you from playing 8th edition From reading posts, it seems like the biggest reason GW failed with the relaunch was their lack of market research. They've had people clamoring for better and more balanced/comprehensive rules for years, so when they decided to make this new system what they should've done was hunker down and just make a new big rulebook with the simplified rules available as an alternative for people who just want to give this newfangled Sigmar stuff a try. Not presume that they were going to start selling a bunch of models for people to paint when that's just half of what makes the hobby what it is. If you can't actually use your models and have a good time, why not just buy a competitors models and play with those? Which is of course what a lot of people did. Mantic games are growing in popularity at my local shop, despite the owner's lack of interest in pushing it.
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Mar 13, 2016 21:11
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Renfield posted:The one that was missed out was Infinity - sci-fi skirmish game. Infinity also has their nifty Army builder web app directly on their website where you can create an army list and get a pdf with the rules and stats for all the units, weapons and gear in the list. For a Fantasy equivalent all the cool kids seem to be using Kings of War which seem to have some really nicely priced box sets too (49.99 GBP for an army box set with 56 orcs/5 units is a steal vs 20.99 for a single unit of 10 GW orcs) as well as from what I understand a 1:1 rules match for existing WFB units. rules.
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Mar 13, 2016 21:27
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I like how all of the positive points that jabroni made about AOS could have been easily done to fantasy without detonating the setting and hamfisting space marines into the game. People are bitter about the game is that AOS could have coexisted with fantasy. Fantasy, for all of its flaws, was still the second highest selling wargame on the market. It's only sin was not being 40k, so it apparently had to die to make a 40k lookalike. Turns out if your only advertising is word of mouth, poisoning the well by making everyone's previous purchases useless turns all of your previous salesmen into outspoken critics. It doesn't hurt that the game is total poo poo too.
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Mar 13, 2016 22:04
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The best thing about all of this is that round bases is the big gently caress you cherry on top of the poo poo sundae. It's burning their bridges by making anything they produce going forward incompatible with the old system and ensuring that WHFB isn't coming back.
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Mar 13, 2016 22:20
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richyp posted:... from what I understand a 1:1 rules match for existing WFB units. rules. Not quite there yet iirc, but most things are there or can be represented with counts as. There's the odd really weird WHFB unit that doesn't quite fit in (mainly 'wacky' stuff like some of the larger monsters, fanatics, cauldron of blood etc.). It's still a better game by far though.
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Mar 13, 2016 22:43
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TKIY posted:The best thing about all of this is that round bases is the big gently caress you cherry on top of the poo poo sundae. But it's not incompatible because you don't measure with the bases anymore so you can bring any finely crafted Games Workshop Citadel Miniature (TM) you feel like bringing and just Have Fun!!!
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Mar 13, 2016 22:51
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spectralent posted:But it's not incompatible because you don't measure with the bases anymore so you can bring any finely crafted Games Workshop Citadel Miniature (TM) you feel like bringing and just Have Fun!!! Sure but you can't go back to rank and file with round bases, if they even admitted their mistake and tried to reinvigorate WHFB.
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Mar 13, 2016 23:01
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TKIY posted:Sure but you can't go back to rank and file with round bases, if they even admitted their mistake and tried to reinvigorate WHFB. but age of sigmar gives you total freedom to play the game however you want. you can put all the round bases so they're in a weird, unhistoric square if you want idgi 
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Mar 13, 2016 23:08
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Renfield posted:The one that was missed out was Infinity - sci-fi skirmish game. Nah I mentioned it: Leperflesh posted:... Infinity for a skirmish sci fi game with an anime aesthetic,
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Mar 13, 2016 23:10
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spectralent posted:but age of sigmar gives you total freedom to play the game however you want. you can put all the round bases so they're in a weird, unhistoric square if you want idgi Omg I've never truly beheld the glory before this moment. I'm going to put my wife, children and dogs all on round bases now. Where is my staple gun...
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Mar 13, 2016 23:59
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I think, in a way, "Age of Sigmar lets you forge your own narrative" came true. Everyone immediately rejected sigmar's narrative and went to play another, better game. EDIT: I'm going to remind everyone again that GW tried to sell a £20 book with two army lists in it for a game that doesn't even use army lists. Not for any particular reason, it's just hilarious.
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Mar 14, 2016 00:19
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Pawl posted:If you don't like AOS there is nothing stopping you from playing 8th edition lmao
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Mar 14, 2016 01:32
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It should come as no surprise that the people who hate AoS the most are the people who thought GW's products already sucked. It's basically them doubling down on everything they were already doing wrong.
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Mar 14, 2016 01:42
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Had Age of Sigmar not come out, I probably would never have played Kings of War and Warhammer would have remained a cool thing that I could never afford to get into. So it's all win win I guess. Weren't the rules only temporarily free? Like I remember reading that some lists had been pulled down as the lines were discontinued, but I could be wrong. And sure, you could just play 8e or 9th Age, but you could also play 5e or 2e or whatever. The problem is that after a game or edition gets replaced, interest in the game immediately dies and it becomes increasingly difficult to find players. Plus, with something like Kings of War, the rules are constantly being updated and tweaked and the game remains fresh and balanced for a long time. Besides, everyone knows 6e was the best edition anyway.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:31
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I think they're "technically" free, but all the formations (do those exist in AoS?) and scenarios cost money.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:42
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BattleMaster posted:I'm still reeling from trying to understand the thought process that could have possibly arrived at making a miniatures wargame with no force building rules I'm guessing that some of the shot callers got started in the 70s of fantasy wargaming. Back then, there were no points in army design--instead you'd make a scenerio, usually with a named character leading each unit. Leadership scores would be unique to the unit itself, and you'd model out imaginary battles--could the dwarven militia with low combat skills but resolute leadership defend their tavern from this squad of tempermental orcs? Oooh, they could. But what if it was raining? How about if the orcs had brought along a troll to batter down the defenses? Would a few dwarven scouts with shortbows on ponies offset that? It wasn't really a competitive affair during that period, but a two player simulation toy. Eventually computers got better at doing weird simulations without spending three hours rolling dice and consulting charts, and the interests of wargamers developed to be more interested in competitive play. Meanwhile, people interested in taking characters and telling battle stories with them have found out that wow, Dungeons and Dragons is way better at this. Fast forward thirty years, and get a bunch of designers sick of people bitching at them for pricing some interchangeable halberdiers at 7 points instead of at 6 points deciding that wargaming was the most fun back when they were twelve.
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Mar 14, 2016 02:57
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Avenging Dentist posted:I think they're "technically" free, but all the formations (do those exist in AoS?) and scenarios cost money. Yes. You can pay TWENTY ENGLISH POUNDS for TWO. Remember that this is a game where there's no army lists so why the gently caress you even want them or how they're even meant to work as a thing period is a mystery. Ten pounds per list Ten pounds. per liiiiist
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Mar 14, 2016 03:03
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Mystic Mongol posted:I'm guessing that some of the shot callers got started in the 70s of fantasy wargaming. I think it's more the opposite. Whoever greenlit Age of Sigmar reminds me of those guys founding tech start-ups talking about how they're going to "disrupt" some entrenched business model or another with their hot new app that leverages paradigms something something get in on the ground floor. Like that weirdo behind Soylent who can't wrap his head around why people wouldn't want to give up eating normal food when they could subsist entirely on his oily fartshakes. Someone made Age of Sigmar having only the faintest idea of what tabletop wargamers actually want, what anyone liked about Warhammer Fantasy, or even what games are like. I feel like someone who'd come up through the 70's would probably have avoided making such a complete farce as AoS even by accident. For starters a crusty grognard wouldn't have ditched knights on horseback and halberdiers for an endless procession of Goresmash Bloodstompers and Eternal Celestant Primorises.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:19
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The 70's crust-grog wargaming community prides itself on its love of digital downloads, $90 plastic kits with unconventional basing conventions, and radical setting revisions.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:33
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richyp posted:Infinity also has their nifty Army builder web app directly on their website where you can create an army list and get a pdf with the rules and stats for all the units, weapons and gear in the list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv8ANyYqkWw More balanced! More approachable! All profiles recosted/updated along with the new edition, even those from expansion! No unit left behind! Compare to GW's teasers: poo poo happens this weekend! But is it a new game? Codex? Campaign? Model release? Company-wide special offer? Should I set aside some gaming money to get it at launch? Who the gently caress knows! That's not important! poo poo's gonna happen and it's gonna be grimdark! And poo poo. Pierzak fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 03:43
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Kai Tave posted:For starters a crusty grognard wouldn't have ditched knights on horseback and halberdiers for an endless procession of Goresmash Bloodstompers and Eternal Celestant Primorises. Alright, that's fairly compelling.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:48
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Not to mention a crusty grog would never have the chance of a goblin wounding a dragon be the same as the chance of a dragon wounding a dragon. Or them both have the same chance of hitting a dragon. I mean seriously, the game fails on both game-play and verisimilitude which are usually seen as the two axes pulling against one another. Here are two things different kind of gamers like! Lets have neither... why is our product failing? Better cut more stores. We're a miniatures company. 
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Mar 14, 2016 04:16
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Indolent Bastard posted:We did it. It was all worth it. Well done everyone, well done. And this isn't even the death thread
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Mar 14, 2016 04:43
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Pierzak posted:Compare to GW's teasers: poo poo happens this weekend! But is it a new game? Codex? Campaign? Model release? Company-wide special offer? Should I set aside some gaming money to get it at launch? Who the gently caress knows! That's not important! poo poo's gonna happen and it's gonna be grimdark! And poo poo. Idiot GW Fan: no this is actually good
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Mar 14, 2016 04:52
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