|
Woolie Wool posted:Huh, that's odd because I thought it would make the game easier. A full set of party members with radically divergent abilities who hopefully complement each other. Unfortunately half of them turned out to be really lovely. I would strongly recommend reading a bit of the BG Ironman thread and maybe a little of an LP. The BG games came from a very old rule set and while the classes do sort of slot into the tank/DPS/Controller roles, that stuff came long after and that isnt the way to approach the BGs. I enjoy the BG games because they are as close as I can get to playing a Roguelike without rage quitting. As a new player you will be reloading constantly, like dozens of times per map, especially if you aren't familiar with D&D monsters as some of them you just need to flee from if you arent leveled or equipped to deal with them, but the game gives you no clues. I would actually really suggest you find a good LP and kinda "play along" with it until you are at-least level 4-5. There is a ton of content, so dont worry about spoilers. Trying to play BG like a modern game is going to be no fun, but once you get the hang of it the games becomes amazing. There is also a program called "EE Keeper" that lets you edit your characters, add gear, stuff like that. For your first playthrough there is no shame in maxing all your stats for a few levels, then adjusting down once you get the hang of things.
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 15:03 |
|
|
Yeah I'm probably going to use EEKeeper to rejigger my party (and probably give my wizard ludicrous CON). I'm not very bullish on the named NPC companions because most of them seem so broadly drawn and badly acted that I find them immediately obnoxious.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
BG's definitely built on a more rigid system than PoE. Choosing proficiencies and thief skills at level up is totally different to the continuous customisation through skills and feats that modern games offer. Especially without an inbuilt respec option, that means character creation does play a much more significant part in your campaign. It's hard to totally screw yourself, but there are definitely less optimal choices (which people have gone ahead and beaten the game with anyway, because it's still a very solvable problem). That said, common sense is still a pretty good guide, I think. I used to play this game multiplayer with friends when we were all six, and I know that on at least one run we got to the Gate itself before we started spawning Drizzt clones on top of all the enemies. If you're going to have someone wield a weapon - especially if you're not a martial class - then, yes, they'll need training in it to hit enemies on anything but a 20. Low HP characters are totally viable, but you have to keep them away from getting hurt, by physical distance or by protection buffs. Whatever your class and HP status, don't fight a bear close up if you've never been outside your fortress monastery in your life before. I'll also advocate for some of the kits and classes you're having problems with. Thieves are not the glass cannon DPS class that later 'rogues' and all their incarnations became - that's not a preconception you should be coming in with. Outputting persistent damage is for the martial classes. Thieves are pretty much glass missiles. Until you get enough invisibility effects, they pop out of the shadows at an important enemy, gib them, and then run away to plink at things from a distance. (Once you've got some more skill points under your belt, preset traps add another weapon to your arsenal, once particularly good at killing enemies who run after once you've murdered their leader). And while you can't murder lots of people so easily, murdering the one dude can actually be a lot easier in BG, because you get to throw out damage multipliers that most modern game devs don't want anywhere near their system. An Assassin's octuple damage critical backstab in late BG2 is a thing of true beauty. If you want to try to imitate a more modern rogue, then the Swashbuckler kit is available, though, trading that massive backstab spike for more sustained to-hit and damage bonuses. As for Cavaliers, the lack of ranged weapons can hurt in BG1, where HP levels are low enough that engaging from afar is a real advantage. But slap a big shield and an innate Pro Evil cast on them, and they'll do fine. Better yet, they get immunity to one of the nastiest damage statuses, in poison, and one of the nastiest CC statuses, in fear. Plus they can get rid of fear on everyone else incredibly easily too. There are all kinds of situations where those immunities and abilities make a fight so much easier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Sleep of Bronze posted:BG's definitely built on a more rigid system than PoE. Choosing proficiencies and thief skills at level up is totally different to the continuous customisation through skills and feats that modern games offer. Especially without an inbuilt respec option, that means character creation does play a much more significant part in your campaign. It's hard to totally screw yourself, but there are definitely less optimal choices (which people have gone ahead and beaten the game with anyway, because it's still a very solvable problem). A lot of these kits seem like they would really be better as "prestige classes" that you have the option of choosing at level 8-10 after starting the game as a basic class, like Dragon Age's prestige classes but less disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:A lot of these kits seem like they would really be better as "prestige classes" that you have the option of choosing at level 8-10 after starting the game as a basic class, like Dragon Age's prestige classes but less disappointing. You have to keep in mind that all these kits were not originally available in Baldurs Gate 1. They were back ported from BG2 where you start at 7 so the balance is a bit screwy. If you just want somebody who is ludicrously effective to cheese BG1 put an Archer in the party. Ranged combat is king for a good deal of BG1 and Archer is the king of ranged combat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
So I left the best character by far in my entire party, an archer with huge STR, DEX, and CON, by the side of the road when I met Imoen. Go me.  Also someone should make a Duke Nukem sound set for Baldur's Gate for the comedy value. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Without going into everything that's been said, the only class you picked that's bad is the Assassin. If you plan on keeping Imoen around you should kick that guy to the curb and take the Archer back in. If not just roll some kind of multi-class Thief instead. Everything else is just a matter of stats, proficiencies and spells in case of the Necromancer not being assigned optimally. The spells aren't going to be a problem in the long run, especially since you already got Sleep now, but you should follow bongwizzard's advice and redistribute stats and proficiencies with EE Keeper. The Necromancer has a not amazing stat total and considering he's forced to put a lot of points into Wisdom due to his kit and some into Charisma due to being an Elf, so he won't get maxed out Dex and Con by just rearranging them, but he can still be made better. All of these guys are pretty much on par with the NPCs in the game, though, statwise, so just making sure they all know how to use the best ranged weapon they have access to would probably be enough. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
I did that, although I might have gone overboard with turning my necromancer into a dual-class fighter/necromancer (one level of fighter, two of necromancer) with a longbow.  He won't likely get any better at shooting things but it will be enough shooting until his magical talents develop. 18 THAC0 with a bow beats 22 THAC0 with a sling. There's not much sense of "growing into" a class in this game. It's not like many more modern games where you start out mediocre at many things and grow to become very good at a couple of things while your other abilities are outpaced by characters and enemies who do those things better. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Mar 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Dyna Soar posted:Here's how I'd make your party, hah: Solo FMT rakovsky maybe posted:Yeah but I strongly recommend playing the first time as a single character instead of creating a whole party. Yeah, this guy gets me!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Assassin isn't bad  Honestly
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:What about an elf multi-class thief/mage? The 10% miscast chance with leather armor sucks and only one cast at level 1 sucks even more but he might be able to survive being hit once. Do an Inquisitor instead, they are way better than a paladin, and you will be happy you did once you get into BG2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Yeah I'm probably going to use EEKeeper to rejigger my party (and probably give my wizard ludicrous CON). I'm not very bullish on the named NPC companions because most of them seem so broadly drawn and badly acted that I find them immediately obnoxious. Anything over 16 con is useless for non-fighters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
netcat posted:Assassin isn't bad They get really good later on but they're much less useful in BG1 than basically any other thief class, single multi or dual. Washout posted:Do an Inquisitor instead, they are way better than a paladin, and you will be happy you did once you get into BG2. Agreed, one of the best classes in the game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:21
|
|
|
I was planning on switching to cavalier through EE Keeper at level 8. Migrating between kits of the same class seems like something you really ought to have one opportunity to do (and Inquisitors should be Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil).
Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
Washout posted:Anything over 16 con is useless for non-fighters. There's regeneration for 20+ and "shorty" bonuses for gnomes, halflings and dwarves. http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Constitution
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
rakovsky maybe posted:Yeah but I strongly recommend playing the first time as a single character instead of creating a whole party. The story and NPCs are easily half the appeal of Baldur's Gate. I also think as a newbie managing a huge party right off the bat is really tough. I think it's best to have a manageable 2-3 characters to start with. One each for frontline and backline with a little prep work in the mix can handle most of the scripted encounters a single body would have trouble with.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
OK, revised stats andclasses from my initial playthrough with EEKeeper: Human paladin STR 18/78 (I could do it it 18/00 but that would make me feel like an even bigger cheater) DEX 11 CON 16 INT 11 WIS 13 CHR 17 Elf ranger (formerly elf assassin) STR 18/66 DEX 17 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 14 CHR 11 Human cleric STR 17 DEX 10 CON 15 INT 13 WIS 18 CHR 11 Dwarf fighter STR 18/00 (DWARF SMASH) DEX 16 CON 19 (DWARF GET SMASHED) INT 11 WIS 10 CHR 9 (DWARF NOT MUCH OF A TALKER) Imoen (unchanged) Elf dual-class (lv. 1 fighter/lv. 2 mage) STR 18/55 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 18 WIS 10 CHR 9
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Man, way to confuse the newbie with a bunch of stuff he doesn't need to know yet. Creating an entire party is overwhelming. Know how I beat BG1 back in '98 as a babby with no guide? I made a PC with 18 DEX and 18 CON that was good at ranged combat and I gave every NPC I recruited a bow or sling, whichever they were good at.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Dwarf fighter Most BG2 player characters will have Charisma 3 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Seriously though, making a whole party is silly. Especially when your justification for it would is that it's more powerful, but if you don't know the game system you don't know what that requires. It also potentially makes the game harder by dividing XP more ways in the early game, which when the NPCs that join you are higher level if the PC is higher level is actively counterproductive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:So I left the best character by far in my entire party, an archer with huge STR, DEX, and CON, by the side of the road when I met Imoen. Go me. Two things pretty much break level 1-3ish DnD, which are the Sleep spell and bows. The sleep spell does a wide-area effect that puts low-level monsters to sleep. They'll wake up eventually or when you hit them, but you get completely secure hits on them at least once. Bows get two relatively strong attacks per round, and since you really want your racial maximum Dex stat for the armour class bonus that you get regardless of armour, you're going to get an effective 10% to-hit bonus to hit with bows on any character that isn't a Dwarf. If you're using a Longbow which has an innate +1 to hit, it's pretty much a +15% to-hit, Composite Longbows also get +2 damage. Plus there are quite a lot of magic Longbows which are even better, and the same goes for magic arrows. Later on, melee classes get really tanky, and get more attacks per round which cuts it some, plus magical melee weapons can do some crazy poo poo, but it's normally worth carrying a bow on anyone who can use one forever. In Baldur's Gate one of the better kits that actually stays pretty strong is Beast Master. You can use Longbows (big help!), the Find Familiar ability gives you a bunch of hp at level 1 which helps you not get hosed off with the game if you run into a bad situation, and although you can't use metal equipment like swords, Baldur's Gate as a series is pretty generous with Quarterstaff type weapons; there's a Quarterstaff +1 in one of the first towns you run into that you almost always end up picking up. There's also good Studded Leather-type armour through BG1 and into BG2, way more than you'd need for your normal 1 thief in a party.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Suspicious posted:Man, way to confuse the newbie with a bunch of stuff he doesn't need to know yet. Creating an entire party is overwhelming. Know how I beat BG1 back in '98 as a babby with no guide? I made a PC with 18 DEX and 18 CON that was good at ranged combat and I gave every NPC I recruited a bow or sling, whichever they were good at. We can't help it, we've gone too far, we know too much!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
In BG, sleeping enemies don't wake up when you attack them. They're free kills. Please don't recommend the beastmaster class, it's horrible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
Suspicious posted:In BG, sleeping enemies don't wake up when you attack them. quote:Please don't recommend the beastmaster class, it's horrible. As I said, they have great survivability, there are loads of good quarterstaffs, including one you basically can't miss in the 3rd real place you will visit along the main quest, and even a one-hander if you have Tales of the Sword Coast. Bows are amazing through Baldur's Gate, and their armour restriction isn't that big a deal because there's always more than enough Studded Leather. They're also pretty convenient scouts with their improved stealth skill. If you're playing for the first time, they will stand you in good stead. If you're playing for the 3rd time and you have everything mapped out in your head from optimal paths to get all the best equipment and tons of XP straight away to straight up gamey poo poo like saving your character points by picking CHA 3 because you get a ring at the start of BG2 that sets your charisma to 18, and then a cloak that gives you another +2 within the first 2 hours of playing the sequel, sure, it's less good and you won't want or need the extra health because you won't ever get into any situation you don't know about in advance.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Well now when I try to enter the Friendly Arm inn again (already completed Nashkel mines), Jaheira approaches me and the game crashes. Well maybe that's the game itself telling me that this is not my kind of game. Guess I shouldn't have even bothered. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:00
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Well now when I try to enter the Friendly Arm inn again (already completed Nashkel mines), Jaheira approaches me and the game crashes. Well maybe that's the game itself telling me that this is not my kind of game. Guess I shouldn't have even bothered. I'd say give it a try again, it's pretty good entertainment, and the sequel is probably the best CRPG ever made.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
If I decide to try again I might just roll with a single character + a cleric for healing and then dump the cleric when I find another cleric. But that means I'll have to fight loving Mulaney again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:OK, revised stats andclasses from my initial playthrough with EEKeeper: This is a pretty well balanced team. You could min-max your stat lines even harder but it's not a big deal. For the early game, make sure everyone has a ranged option available. Your cleric should have at least one command spell, and your mage should have at least two sleep spells prepared. Your main strategy will be to use one or both of these spells to completely lock down the enemy team and then have your bruisers move in and slaughter their helpless selves. If these don't stick or the threat is too minor to be worth it, have your paladin/warrior screen for the rest of the team while everyone else unleashes hell with ranged weapons. Your ranger will carry the team extremely hard. 50% of total party kills just being on this one character is normal at this point. Imoen is a special case. She's a very capable thief and you should prioritize lock picking and trap detection/disarm (The skill is equivalent to the mechanics skill from PoE and does double duty). Stealth, traps, and pickpocket can generally be ignored unless you're planning to really exploit backstabbing and traps which you probably shouldn't sweat. However, Imoen also has the stat line to dual class into mage. You don't have to do this, and she'll actually become this combo once you hit BG2 anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
Oh god the beta UI changes are just awful. What were they thinking, it looks like a 90's bargain bin game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:If I decide to try again I might just roll with a single character + a cleric for healing and then dump the cleric when I find another cleric. But that means I'll have to fight loving Mulaney again. And yes it does mean you'll have to fight Mulahey again so maybe take a day off or something, because the Nashkel Mines are like the 3rd worst area in all of Baldur's Gate (after the totally loving garbage Firewine Bridge dungeon in BG1 that you should avoid like the plague, and a dungeon in BG2 that puts you into a slog against about billion Mind Flayers if you walk into the wrong, unlabelled door after a seriously overlong prior segment where you were also mainly walking through corridors).
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:a slog against about billion Mind Flayers. Aren't those the things that eat your brain and you have to cast some ridiculously high level spell or pay a temple to get your brain fixed? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Do they not? I thought they did after 1 round of getting hit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:12
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:If I decide to try again I might just roll with a single character + a cleric for healing and then dump the cleric when I find another cleric. But that means I'll have to fight loving Mulaney again. Clerics can't heal for poo poo, that's not what they're for in Baldur's Gate. The main thing you should be doing is avoiding damage, not healing it away. Running away from things is allowed and encouraged.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Aren't those the things that eat your brain and you have to cast some ridiculously high level spell or pay a temple to get your brain fixed?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Aren't those the things that eat your brain and you have to cast some ridiculously high level spell or pay a temple to get your brain fixed? In BG2, they do 4 intelligence damage per hit (and if a character hits 0 in any stat it dies) so they're very dangerous against min-maxed fighters with low int. It just wears off after a bit though, and that ability doesn't affect summons so they're easy to cheese if you're into that kind of thing. The Mindflayer dungeon is fairly late game and is honestly not that bad. [edit] It's pretty loving nightmarish with Tactics, but quelle surprise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Clerics can't heal for poo poo Druids get to call a Dryad at level 4 of their spells that has MCLW two levels before a cleric would get it (and earlier in XP terms, since Druid advancement is fast early before dying on its arse later), but Clerics can totally heal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Um yes they can? They have Cure X Wounds, which is literally The Healing Spell for most of BG1 at least, and then whatever Mass Cure Light Wounds is called in BG2 (I can't remember off the top of my head) and eventually Mass Heal. Almost all healing spells are terrible. That no-one else gets any better spells is immaterial, it's not an MMO style tank+healer+dps paradigm. Cure Light Wounds heals 8 hp per cast. Whoopdedoo!
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Do they not? I thought they did after 1 round of getting hit. No metal item of any sort isn't a drawback, it's crippling. It's sawing off your two legs just for kicks. The only thing worse is the wizard slayer's no magical item of any kind. For such an extreme con, you'd expect amazing pros, right? Something like the kensai? Nope. Animal summons that quickly become useless fodder, even in BG1. Innate summon familiar? Yay! +4 HP! Sure wish I could wear full plate armor though so I wouldn't need it in the first place. All these amazing wooden weapons and studded leather armors can be used by literally any other warrior class that don't suffer from the beastmaster's ridiculous penalty.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
It turned out the bug was an issue I had with BG2Tweaks and I fixed it. How important are the prefab party members anyway? Imoen doesn't seem to have any conversation trees.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 15:03 |
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:It turned out the bug was an issue I had with BG2Tweaks and I fixed it. How important are the prefab party members anyway? Imoen doesn't seem to have any conversation trees. You should totally take a party with jaheria and whathis name and minsk and his mage friend in your first party, doing anything else is a disservice to the game imo. Then as your 6th you can take another mage or cleric or whatever. Also go do the gnolls before you do the nashkill mines.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 00:31
|
|