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They've already said the air assets are staying in Syria, so yeah take this with a massive grain of salt.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:19
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CommieGIR posted:They've already said the air assets are staying in Syria, so yeah take this with a massive grain of salt. I think they've also claimed that the only land assets they had were guarding the air assets...
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Mar 14, 2016 22:31
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So here's what the Russian Foreign Ministry had to say about Bellingcat, finally in Englishquote:So-called evidence falsified by the British Bellingcat blogger team concerning Russian leaders’ alleged complicity in the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash It's worth noting that at best the claims about the news articles are gross misrepresentation of the contents of the articles, and no such article was ever published in Der Spiegel Magazine. Here's the RTL piece, and the only Trouw article where it refers to money and Bellingcat. Clearly nothing like the Russian's describe.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:41
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Such loving lying pieces of poo poo.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:01
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You can tell they aren't even trying when they can't even come up with some "various Western analysts" by name.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:02
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I wonder how many death threats you get day by day
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Mar 14, 2016 23:05
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Friendly Humour posted:I wonder how many death threats you get day by day Our big brown BM not only sticks his nose into Russia's business but also middle-east politics. A good mix of styles of death threats! Beheading or polonium?
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Mar 14, 2016 23:08
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Friendly Humour posted:I wonder how many death threats you get day by day Not many, although I've probably muted several hundred people on Twitter who would send me that sort of thing. I prefer muting, then they've no idea I can't see what they're saying, and still get to see all the stuff I'm doing that irritates them enough to send me abuse. For those of you interested I did a presentation at the Guardian today about open source and social media investigation, you can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5Al4-HK5g&t=1332s As you'll be able to see, I've been getting carried away with Keynote. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 23:21
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Hi EE thread. I don't like you, but I figured you might want to see some pictures of the refugee camp in Idomeni a friend of a friend did for Vice. http://www.vice.com/rs/read/izdaja-covecanstva-u-izbeglickom-kampu-u-idomeniju-ocima-srpskog-fotoreportera Aptly titled "Betrayal of Humanity"
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Mar 14, 2016 23:47
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EU's strategy of both denying entry for refugees and criticising Balkan countries for denying entry to refugees working really well there.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:50
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Friendly Humour posted:EU's strategy of both denying entry for refugees and criticising Balkan countries for denying entry to refugees working really well there. Well, that's mostly a sidenote. EU's main strategy is to pay off Turkey for keeping them there, just as Erdogan is working on dismantling the country's democratic institutions. That's not going to eventually backfire at all, no sir....
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Mar 15, 2016 00:31
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Brown Moses posted:It's worth noting that at best the claims about the news articles are gross misrepresentation of the contents of the articles, and no such article was ever published in Der Spiegel Magazine. Well, they sort of did publish such an article. They apologise for their previous reporting, because the "expert" they interviewed contradicts bellingcat. They leave the conclusion up to their readers, but it's all heavily skewed against you. The average reader of those articles would probably agree with that Russian statement. Your reputation in Germany was seriously damaged by those articles. They are the convenient go-to rebuttals for anything bellingscat-related. "Look, even the Spiegel says they are quacks"  http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelblog/bellingcat-bericht-zu-mh17-was-wir-lernen-a-1037135.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/mh17-satellitenbilder-bellingcat-betreibt-kaffeesatzleserei-a-1036874.html Welsh Rarebitch fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 00:37
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Brown Moses posted:Not many, although I've probably muted several hundred people on Twitter who would send me that sort of thing. I prefer muting, then they've no idea I can't see what they're saying, and still get to see all the stuff I'm doing that irritates them enough to send me abuse. Your presentation skills keep improving- that was some really impressive stuff!
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Mar 15, 2016 01:07
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rabatz posted:Well, they sort of did publish such an article. They apologise for their previous reporting, because the "expert" they interviewed contradicts bellingcat. They leave the conclusion up to their readers, but it's all heavily skewed against you. The average reader of those articles would probably agree with that Russian statement. That's Spiegel Online, the articles were never published in Der Spiegel Magazine.
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Mar 15, 2016 06:49
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Brown Moses posted:That's Spiegel Online, the articles were never published in Der Spiegel Magazine. Did they even ask you for a comment before they published that thing?
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Mar 15, 2016 09:04
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No, and when I asked the author to get them to comment on the new imagery we purchased he said they weren't satellite imagery experts, and seeing the whole point of our report was about combining the two to come to a conclusion using only one to criticise us seems a bit off.
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Mar 15, 2016 09:08
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Bit unprofessional of them. I thought Spiegel was a high-quality publication, but that just seems like something a tabloid rag would do. Honestly I don't even understand what the point of their criticism was. That expert of theirs says too that the images the MOD published were edited but somehow that doesn't prove anything because apparently pictures meant as proof of innocense are often edited for reasons like...? lollontee fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 10:17
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Friendly Humour posted:Honestly I don't even understand what the point of their criticism was. 'Please Mr Putin, don't turn the gas off! We need it to generate electricity for our motor industry!'
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Mar 15, 2016 11:09
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If you want actually professional journalists try contacting Süddeutsche Zeitung. They're more reputable than Spiegel and if they took you seriously everybody else would basically have no choice either.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:10
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Friendly Humour posted:Bit unprofessional of them. I thought Spiegel was a high-quality publication, but that just seems like something a tabloid rag would do. Basically is was that we didn't do ELA properly, our counter-argument is that it was done in the context of other issues we detected with the imagery. With recent updates to Google Earth historical imagery it seems even more certain nothing happened in one area we examined https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/704387095448653825 And there's other problems too https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/704029836973645824
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Mar 15, 2016 11:14
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Friendly Humour posted:Bit unprofessional of them. I thought Spiegel was a high-quality publication, but that just seems like something a tabloid rag would do. Spiegel is a reasonably reputable journal, but Spiegel online isn't. Here is the criticism from the expert: - Both a manipulated and non manipulated image would have shown photoshop exif data, because photoshop is usually used to crop and compress pictures or add text annotations for publication. It's not an argument that the images were manipulated. - Error level analysis is not a real forensic tool and more akin to a polygraph test, you can get any result you want. There is too much human interpretation involved. - It's generally making too many assumptions, like assuming that a dark spot on a blurry image is an oil spot and that it therefore must grow with time.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:17
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waitwhatno posted:Spiegel is a reasonably reputable journal, but Spiegel online isn't. Digging into a single piece of evidence and ignoring the rest in order to discredit a theory is cool and good. Anyway the spiegel online piece was like a year ago. Outside Russian propaganda, is that really the worst criticism of Moses' work?
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Mar 15, 2016 11:25
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Friendly Humour posted:Digging into a single piece of evidence and ignoring the rest in order to discredit a theory is cool and good. I'm pretty sure it is, and we only used ELA in that one report, so if that's all they've got then that ain't much.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:28
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Brown Moses posted:I'm pretty sure it is, and we only used ELA in that one report, so if that's all they've got then that ain't much. Well. Congratulations? I dunno, it just seems weird that nobody (who could be taken seriously) is criticizing your work is all.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:34
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my dad posted:Hi EE thread. I don't like you, but I figured you might want to see some pictures of the refugee camp in Idomeni a friend of a friend did for Vice.  That one got to me. They're so damned brave, holy poo poo.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:37
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Palpek posted:If you want actually professional journalists try contacting Süddeutsche Zeitung. They're more reputable than Spiegel and if they took you seriously everybody else would basically have no choice either. They already do, recently they did a nice article about him. They were even nice enough to call him a "former civil servant", because that sounds a lot better then "he was unemployed" in Germany. I linked it sometime earlier in this thread, so if you check my posts you should stumble over it. (Or just search after "Bellingcat" on Sueddeutsche.de, I guess.  )Edit: Found it!
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Mar 15, 2016 11:38
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Sadly, this isn't too surprising. I know the article in question; it basically ignores the contents of your report to make a nebulous statement about the method itself. What their expert said isn't necessarily wrong - in fact, it all makes perfect sense -, but in context with the Bellingcat article, it's clear it's a rather tired attack without actually trying to disprove anything. Instead of confronting your claims, they generally cast doubt on the method used and basically trail off on a question mark. It's loving cowardly. Spiegel Online (I just call it Spoon) also has a history of posting Putin apologies, where the importance of not damaging the traditional ties to Russia are stressed, and it's clarified that Putin is really not "a stupid man" (thank you, SpOn!). One of the online-only columnists - who are generally garbage, but some are alright - actually has the tag line "Im Zweifel Links" (when in doubt, left) and occasionally gets up to shenanigans like this... Make sense of that if you will. It goes without saying that the comments are generally a cesspit as well, but as we know, that's really nothing to hold against an online publication. Now that I mention that, that's something I always found weird... Whenever someone starts talking about the events in Ukraine, and I start calling Russia's behaviour into question, there's one thing almost everyone who doubts the Bellingcat version says: "Putin is not a stupid man." It's always about Putin, and they want to stress that he's a smart dude. Like... why the hell does everyone assume that's called into question? 
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Mar 15, 2016 11:40
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Thing is, I was unemployed for a total of 2 months in a 10 year period, then I started working on the Brown Moses Blog full time after I did my Indiegogo fundraiser. The situation was is I finished a part time admin contract, then decided to do the Indiegogo straight after that, which took a month, during which period I was living off savings while I waited for the Indiegogo to finish. The whole unemployed thing is just something a journalist wrote because it sounded like a better story, then loads of other journalists repeated until it became a thing.Torquemadras posted:Now that I mention that, that's something I always found weird... Whenever someone starts talking about the events in Ukraine, and I start calling Russia's behaviour into question, there's one thing almost everyone who doubts the Bellingcat version says: "Putin is not a stupid man." It's always about Putin, and they want to stress that he's a smart dude. Like... why the hell does everyone assume that's called into question? Thing is, Putin can be as smart as anyone wants, but if his army is Instagramming their entire lives and civilians are posting photos of every military movement they see there's gently caress all he can do. That's why open source and social media investigation is so powerful in an era where everyone has a powerful, networked, computer/camera in their pocket. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 11:43
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Brown Moses posted:Thing is, I was unemployed for a total of 2 months in a 10 year period, then I started working on the Brown Moses Blog full time after I did my Indiegogo fundraiser. The situation was is I finished a part time admin contract, then decided to do the Indiegogo straight after that, which took a month, during which period I was living off savings while I waited for the Indiegogo to finish. The whole unemployed thing is just something a journalist wrote because it sounded like a better story, then loads of other journalists repeated until it became a thing. If I may ask, how do you get money from bellingcat actually? I don't see any ads or anything.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:49
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Torquemadras posted:Sadly, this isn't too surprising. I know the article in question; it basically ignores the contents of your report to make a nebulous statement about the method itself. What their expert said isn't necessarily wrong - in fact, it all makes perfect sense -, but in context with the Bellingcat article, it's clear it's a rather tired attack without actually trying to disprove anything. Instead of confronting your claims, they generally cast doubt on the method used and basically trail off on a question mark. It's loving cowardly. Well ... yeah. If the method used to do a measurement is flawed, then so is the measurement result. What are you saying exactly?
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Mar 15, 2016 11:52
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The expert was right but he's not a journalist - he can only give an opinion about the material that he's given by a journalist and that limited choice can be manipulated for the purpose of the article.
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Mar 15, 2016 12:06
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Friendly Humour posted:If I may ask, how do you get money from bellingcat actually? I don't see any ads or anything. payments from the Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 12:07
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waitwhatno posted:Well ... yeah. If the method used to do a measurement is flawed, then so is the measurement result. What are you saying exactly? Palpek posted:The expert was right but he's not a journalist - he can only give an opinion about the material that he's given by a journalist and that limited choice can be manipulated for the purpose of the article. Basically this, yeah. Looking at the method in isolation shows that it's not 100% safe, and the expert is correct to say that. However, that alone shouldn't be used to call the entire report "Kaffeesatzleserei" when it's only part of it, ignoring previous reports as well. It really feels cowardly to me - or, if you're feeling more generous towards SpOn, somewhat negligent.
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Mar 15, 2016 12:13
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Big Daddy Keynes posted:payments from the lol
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Mar 15, 2016 12:47
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Probably payments for giving talks, consulting and teaching.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:27
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I guess Google pays pretty well 
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Mar 15, 2016 17:40
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Friendly Humour posted:If I may ask, how do you get money from bellingcat actually? I don't see any ads or anything. Sorry, thought I replied to this, Bellingcat is funded for the next year by a grant from Google, that funds me, Aric, and all the costs of running the site. We're also applying for other funding, mainly for specific projects. Lucy Heartfilia posted:Probably payments for giving talks, consulting and teaching. I used to use that to keep things going, but I keep all that stuff separate from Bellingcat now I'm applying for grant, and run Bellingcat as a non-profit. It makes things simpler when applying for grants.
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Mar 15, 2016 18:06
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:
 I just want to hug them and tell them the world isn't as cruel as people make it seem to them
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Mar 15, 2016 18:22
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Brown Moses posted:Sorry, thought I replied to this, Bellingcat is funded for the next year by a grant from Google, that funds me, Aric, and all the costs of running the site. We're also applying for other funding, mainly for specific projects. That's awfully nice of them. Did you ask for the grant or did they come to you?
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Mar 15, 2016 18:28
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CommieGIR posted:
It is though.
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