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insanityv2
May 15, 2011

I'm gay
Yeah any damage taken interrupts spellcasting as far as I know. Silence works too, but since its an AOE theres a chance it'll hit one of my own casters if the fight is in cramped quarters. You put acid arrows on a dedicated archer, put one single acid arrow in the caster then switch back to normal arrows, and mr big bad mage is stuck beginning but never completing a few spells until his skull is caved in by sling bullets. Mulahey, that rear end in a top hat in the carnival tent, hell even the mages in the final fight have all been trivialized by this tactic. And later you get a lvl 2 mage spell called Melf's Acid Arrow which cant miss...

This is also why I think assassins are underrated. You get to poison any weapon for free. Sure you have less thief skills, but detect trap is the only thief skill that matters. Minsc can open most anything worth opening when he's zerkin' (assuming you don't find knock scroll) and your backstabs are only a casting of invisibility away. Has anyone ever had an npc cast true sight or dispel illusion? I honestly can't recall.

insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 14, 2016

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Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006

insanityv2 posted:

This is also why I think assassins are underrated. You get to poison any weapon for free. Sure you have less thief skills, but detect trap is the only thief skill that matters. Minsc can open most anything worth opening when he's zerkin' (assuming you don't find knock scroll) and your backstabs are only a casting of invisibility away. Has anyone ever had an npc cast true sight or dispel illusion? I honestly can't recall.

vanilla, don't think so.

that said in bg1 assassins are a one trick pony. they have poison weapon and that's it basically. as you said ,you can do the same with acid arrows and you have loads of other options to, melf's acid arrows to name one that you can cast just as often as an assasin can use poison weapon. the drawback is that they lose all those thief skills that just make your life easier in exchange for a skill other classes can perform just as well on top of being a shitload more useful.

now once they hit late teens and get use any item... unstoppable.

insanityv2
May 15, 2011

I'm gay
Also, don't undersell that thac0 bonus on a darts build. Poison dem darts son.

Honestly for ppl new to the game, I dont think the game is ever like unwinnable. All a suboptimal party really does is increase tedium. I think the fact that there are so many different opinions as to what works just shows that most things are viable.

I just love poison weapons so much. I already beat the game with an assassin but i kind of want to do blackguard next.

insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 14, 2016

Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006

insanityv2 posted:

Honestly for ppl new to the game, I dont think the game is ever like unwinnable. All a suboptimal party really does is increase tedium. I think the fact that there are so many different opinions as to what works just shows that most things are viable.

sure, and a subpar character is often much more fun than a powergaming munchkin. blade is one of my favourite classes and they're not really the best at anything, just a really fun combination. same goes for a stalker, and fighter/thief would be much more efficient but i just like playing with a stalker more. i just usually change their spell selection a bit, protection from normal missiles and minor spell deflection are next to useless really.

Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 14, 2016

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


insanityv2 posted:

Also, don't undersell that thac0 bonus on a darts build. Poison dem darts son.

Honestly for ppl new to the game, I dont think the game is ever like unwinnable. All a suboptimal party really does is increase tedium. I think the fact that there are so many different opinions as to what works just shows that most things are viable.

I just love poison weapons so much. I already beat the game with an assassin but i kind of want to do blackguard next.

Sounds like once I finish both BGs with my paladin, an assassin elf for BG2 alone would be my next PC.

Also blackguards make me think of how dumb the alignment restrictions for other paladin kits are. Inquisitors should be a Lawful Neutral/Evil kit. BURN THE HERETIC. :commissar:

Then again, it might be extremely difficult to play any alignment other than Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil seriously since being a jackbooted fascist has to be explicitly written in while being a crazed psycho killer can be done just by killing people and being a boy scout can be done just by being nice to people and not breaking any laws.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 14, 2016

Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006

Woolie Wool posted:

Sounds like once I finish both BGs with my paladin, an assassin elf for BG2 alone would be my next PC.


a buffed up assassin backstabbing at x7 damage will chunk everything in the game.

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Dyna Soar posted:

Here's a pretty good breakdown of all of the mage spells in the game:

http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php/Baldur%27s_Gate:_Arcane_Spells_List

I fired up BG2 EE with full SCS after not playing the game since last fall. I'm doing the Unseeing Eye quest and Beholders are loving brutal and i forgot to bring stoen to flesh scrolls.

Summoned undead are immune to most everything they throw at them.

Dyna Soar posted:

Link? I thought it was hard coded.

I just use the BG2 tweak pack and it was one of the options.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/

Washout fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Mar 15, 2016

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


That is the best tweak in the whole pack. A fighter/mage dual-class (not multi-class) elf with a ++ in longbow is a murder machine, even though I only took one level of fighter.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"
Grimey Drawer
My current solo cheater SCS playthrough is Shadowdancer/mage/fighter. I am trying to just do the main quest line, and only try to kill my "targets". I am still leveling at a fast rate, but not so much that stuff is too easy.

Also, it arrived today:


My girlfriend sees it on the table and asked "why did you buy a novel about your D&D game?". Then she opened to a random page, and started reading aloud:



I didn't have any good response to that.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Woolie Wool posted:

That is the best tweak in the whole pack. A fighter/mage dual-class (not multi-class) elf with a ++ in longbow is a murder machine, even though I only took one level of fighter.

That just let's non-humans dual class, it doesn't let previously ineligible classes dual into each other.

Metal Meltdown
Mar 27, 2010

bongwizzard posted:

My current solo cheater SCS playthrough is Shadowdancer/mage/fighter. I am trying to just do the main quest line, and only try to kill my "targets". I am still leveling at a fast rate, but not so much that stuff is too easy.

Also, it arrived today:


My girlfriend sees it on the table and asked "why did you buy a novel about your D&D game?". Then she opened to a random page, and started reading aloud:



I didn't have any good response to that.

I gave you my condolences for a reason. The entire series is like that to my best recollection.

Sleep of Bronze
Feb 9, 2013

If I could only somewhere find Aias, master of the warcry, then we could go forth and again ignite our battle-lust, even in the face of the gods themselves.
ToB was written by Drew Karpyshyn, who did a lot of the early work on the ME series, rather than Philip Athans who was mostly known as an editor for WotC anthology books when he came out with the BG1 and SOA novels. I still didn't bother reading it, since Athans' offerings had totally soured me on the possibility of anything good coming out of those books, but apparently it's less poo poo.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
From what I remember, BG1 is firmly in the terrible tier of Realms novels, and SOA and ToB are just mediocre to okay.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"
Grimey Drawer
My plan is to offer it up to the thread to pass around once I am done with it. I really want to reread some of the FR books I had as a kid, but not enough to rebuy them. I suspect they are all in a box in my parents attic/garage somewhere, but my previous attempts to find my rpg trove have not been successful.

In actual BGEE news, I am warming up to most of the changes in the Beta, but the character/inventory sheet changes have to loving go. Were there people complaining about the old ones? I though the EE versions were a good update to the OG ones, but still fit the general look.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


None of them actually fix the things that were originally wrong with the interface, like the obscure, ugly icons (especially for magic and powers), the reader-unfriendly fonts, the massive waste of space, and the large number of steps needed to accomplish anything.

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

bongwizzard posted:

My plan is to offer it up to the thread to pass around once I am done with it. I really want to reread some of the FR books I had as a kid, but not enough to rebuy them. I suspect they are all in a box in my parents attic/garage somewhere, but my previous attempts to find my rpg trove have not been successful.

In actual BGEE news, I am warming up to most of the changes in the Beta, but the character/inventory sheet changes have to loving go. Were there people complaining about the old ones? I though the EE versions were a good update to the OG ones, but still fit the general look.

Don't do it. I tried to read Dragonlance because I had read them all as a kid and loving loved the hell out of them and even had beat the first gold box dragonlance. But they are terrible and it soured me on the whole thing.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Is there anything worth looting in the Firewine dungeons? I've heard it's both difficult and unrewarding.

Suspicious
Apr 30, 2005
You know he's the villain, because he's got shifty eyes.
The ogre mage has some ok loot and the mage nearby has a scroll of cloudkill. You can take the entrance that leads directly there to skip all the kobold commando bullshit. All you're missing is a tiny quest that involves returning a skeleton's armor to his buddies for 1000 exp. I can't remember the last time I did it.

Draile
May 6, 2004

forlorn llama
It's weird reading about people approaching these games for the first time from the modern perspective of DPS/tank/healer paradigms for character classes. AD&D characters aren't like that and in my opinion it's for the better.

Woolie Wool posted:

Is there anything worth looting in the Firewine dungeons? I've heard it's both difficult and unrewarding.

Inside the dungeon itself, no. There is some good treasure in the exterior Firewine bridge zone.

Dillbag
Mar 4, 2007

Click here to join Lem Lee in the Hell Of Being Cut To Pieces
Nap Ghost

Woolie Wool posted:

Is there anything worth looting in the Firewine dungeons? I've heard it's both difficult and unrewarding.

Not really unless you still have the idol from that dig site and you want to hang onto the knight's armor in Firewine without completing the quest and hand both into Ulcaster's ghost for a cursed Longsword that's pretty much useless other than as an exploit to slowly heal your party by giving to a regenerating party member (20+ CON) and having them attack the NPC that needs healing.

You can enter the other end of the dungeon in one of the huts in Gullykin after outing one of the halflings as a traitor who let the kobolds into the village and easily complete the Gullykin quest.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

bongwizzard posted:

My current solo cheater SCS playthrough is Shadowdancer/mage/fighter. I am trying to just do the main quest line, and only try to kill my "targets". I am still leveling at a fast rate, but not so much that stuff is too easy.

Also, it arrived today:


My girlfriend sees it on the table and asked "why did you buy a novel about your D&D game?". Then she opened to a random page, and started reading aloud:



I didn't have any good response to that.

please read this entire thing and relay the info to the thread. i've never been able to find a copy, just excerpts online and descriptions of what people have read

i think you'll have these things to look forward to:

  • bizarre and unnecessary changes to what should be an incredibly simple story
  • bizarre and unnecessary changes to simple characters (jaheira becomes a damsel in distress, khalid becomes a lecherous womaniser)
  • characters being killed for no apparent reason
  • incredibly poor prose by an author who has said he wrote the novel during ad breaks on television and that he hated writing an adaptation

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
i mean honestly it wouldn't even be hard to do a novelisation that stayed true to the spirit of bg1, that's half of why the book comes across so poorly

when you get right down to it, bg1 is a coming of age story. a young person, fresh out of their comfortable monestary home, is thrust into a world unlike anything they've known. they get swept up into a web of conspiracies which reach the highest halls of the capital after investigating an issue with an iron mine. over the months that they travel with a colorful cast of characters, they have to struggle against their inner demons and grapple with strange dreams and visions that may or may not be induced from the trauma of their father's death. in the end, they learn that everything they've known is a lie and whether they defeat sarevok by embracing bhaal's power or not can set up the direction that BG2 takes.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Mar 15, 2016

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Just ran into and defeated Kahrk. Healing spells were a Good Idea.

Defeating a level 12 creature at level 4 was kind of :catstare: though. In most other games a level 12 creature would laugh at a level 4 party while one-shotting them.

insanityv2
May 15, 2011

I'm gay
wtf is the context for that passage?

Like is it Tomoko talking about Saverok or something? Thats really the only possible context I could think of.

Also has this been discussed in the thread yet?

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48233/shaman-specifics

quote:


SHAMAN: Shamans forge a divine connection with the natural world, similar to the way Druids commune with nature, but Shamans are more spiritual than primal. They directly tap into the energies that flow through the earth and air, through plants and animals, and even through the dead, and shape these energies to obey their will. Nowhere is this more evident than in their ability to summon powerful spirits as guardians and defenders. A being of two worlds, Shamans value balance over dominance.

CLASS FEATURES:

– May only wear leather, studded leather, and hide armor
– May not equip shields larger than bucklers
– May only use the following weapons: dagger, club, spear, axe, quarterstaff, dart, sling, and shortbow
– May only become Proficient (one slot) in any weapon class
– May only become Proficient (one slot) in any fighting style
– May cast Druid spells
– Does not automatically learn all spells of a given level as Druids do. Instead, Shamans select new spells to learn when they gain levels; once learned, the Shaman can cast them daily without memorization.
– In addition to learning new spells at every level, the Shaman gains immediate access to a number of shaman-specific spells, which can be cast like any other spell in their repertoire: Spirit Ward, Writhing Fog, Spiritual Clarity, Spirit Fire, Recall Spirit, Spiritual Lock, and Ether Gate
– Gains use of Detect Illusion skill with 20% points as a base, with an additional 4 points per level, up to a maximum of 100% at level 20
– May use Shamanic Dance at will

SHAMANIC DANCE: Shamans can summon spirit allies by performing a ritualistic dance. While dancing, the Shaman takes a -4 penalty to armor class and cannot move, attack, cast spells, use items and special abilities, or perform any other activity. Each round while the Shaman dances, there is a 35% base chance plus 2% for each level of the Shaman that a spirit will answer the call, up to a maximum of 75% at level 20. Any summoned spirits will disappear if the Shaman moves, stops dancing, or if the spirits leave visual range. The spirits grow in power as the Shaman gains additional levels:
Level 1: Minor animal spirits (snake, fox, hound), up to 2 spirits at the same time
Level 6: Major animal spirits (bear, panther, boar), up to 3 spirits at the same time
Level 12: Minor nature spirits (lesser air spirit, lesser earth spirit, lesser fire spirit), up to 4 spirits at the same time
Level 18: Major nature spirits (air spirit, earth spirit, fire spirit), up to 5 spirits at the same time
The type of the summoned spirit is randomly determined from all the spirits available at the Shaman's level. For example, a level 12 Shaman will summon either a minor nature spirit, a major animal spirit or a minor animal spirit, but cannot choose which one appears. Spirits will do their best to protect the Shaman but are not controlled directly.

– Does not gain bonus spells per day for high Wisdom
– Alignment restricted to neutral good, true neutral, or neutral evil
– May not dual-class or multi-class
– No Stronghold. The Shaman is not eligible for any stronghold. (This affects only the Shadows of Amn campaign in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition.)
– Hit Die: d8
- Only Humans, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs may become Shamans


Whether or not this class is worthwhile depends on one thing: is there an animation for the dance?


^^only acceptable dance animation imo

insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 15, 2016

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Woolie Wool posted:

Just ran into and defeated Kahrk. Healing spells were a Good Idea.

Defeating a level 12 creature at level 4 was kind of :catstare: though. In most other games a level 12 creature would laugh at a level 4 party while one-shotting them.

Yeah, that's part of the magic of the D&D system - if you are properly prepared, willing to blow a lot of gold on equipment and potions, and/or are just plain lucky, you can kill things three times your own level.

And on the other hand you can run into a single wolf outside Candlekeep and get four people killed without so much as grazing it.

So I'm starting up a new game of BGT and I was wondering, as I incessantly reroll, what stat totals people aim for? Or do you just SK in the stats you want or what? I've been rerolling for 40 minutes because I'm determined to get 90+ total :shepface:

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


I had my wizard drop Stinking Cloud behind Kahrk to catch him in the outer fringe (not sure if it really worked but it was worth a shot), and sent my paladin and fighter along with an Animate Dead skeleton to face-tank him while my cleric chain-casted support and healing spells and everyone else filled him full of arrows. It worked.

As for stat totals, I shoot for 86. I think once I got 87.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Mar 15, 2016

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"
You only need 86+ if you are making triple class characters, otherwise 82 or 84 is fine. Charisma and wisdom are complete dump stats, unless you are a priest ofc. Int is also basically useless for non casters.

Washout fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Mar 15, 2016

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

insanityv2 posted:

wtf is the context for that passage?

Like is it Tomoko talking about Saverok or something? Thats really the only possible context I could think of.

yes

i believe it's the chapter after the chapter where abdel adrian (an experienced mercenary who is extremely strong and extremely sexy) finds out that his father gorion has been killed (by random bandits on the road)

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Washout posted:

You only need 86+ if you are making triple class characters, otherwise 82 or 84 is fine. Charisma and wisdom are complete dump stats, unless you are a priest ofc. Int is also basically useless for non casters.

Well you could also do it for ~role playing~. I mean 6 CHR could work if your other party members are patient enough to put up with his gooniness but a literal retard just doesn't feel like something that belongs in an adventuring party.

Also is there any reason to use Mail of the Dead +2 instead of plate armor aside from weight?

Also I'm disappointed that BG2 does not have a tarrasque as a superboss for crazy people.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Mar 15, 2016

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Woolie Wool posted:

Well you could also do it for ~role playing~. I mean 6 CHR could work if your other party members are patient enough to put up with his gooniness but a literal retard just doesn't feel like something that belongs in an adventuring party.

Also is there any reason to use Mail of the Dead +2 instead of plate armor aside from weight?

Also I'm disappointed that BG2 does not have a tarrasque as a superboss for crazy people.

I just use an NPC as leader.

Nope.

There are plenty of superbosses in the game, liches and poo poo that are totally optional. Like a whole lot various optional super monsters. And they are really fun to kill too, it's part of what makes BG2 so good. The terrasque is godlike and unstoppable, it only wakes once every 1000 years or something and it would really need a game to revolve around it.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Well I was speaking about it from an RP perspective. Being an rear end in a top hat wouldn't automatically exclude you from being a decent adventurer as long as you've got someone more pleasant to represent the party in public. But being a mental defective is not really something you can compensate for.

E: Why can't I have Smite Evil? I thought that was the paladin's most famous ability. Also the game probably should have made me fall instead of just letting a paladin lie to and rip off that bounty officer in Nazkel. But the guy was so pants-on-head dumb that I just couldn't help myself.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Mar 15, 2016

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist
Wow, Shamanic Dance looks like garbage.

"Okay, so there's a chance to maybe at some point, but a round into the fight at the earliest, get summons out of it, which at the highest level is at least kinda likely but of course you might end up getting a fox while fighting a dragon, and actually now that I think about it you won't get it off against a dragon if he decides to use wing buffet anyway because if you move the whole effect is canceled, and oh yeah you can't cast spells while dancing. Enjoy!"

e: Haha, you can't even control the spirits? Yeah, sure, cool, I can already see myself use this almost (although maybe not quite) as often as the shapeshifting ability it replaces. :thumbsup:


OTOH having to select which Druid spells to learn doesn't even look like any kind of disadvantage, I mean how many good Druid spells are there at a given level?

Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 15, 2016

Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006

Washout posted:

Summoned undead are immune to most everything they throw at them.

I dunno, SCS beefs them up and gives them this telekinesis ability which lets them basically shove your summons to the other side of the map.

Washout posted:

I just use the BG2 tweak pack and it was one of the options.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/

Well poo poo, I've naturally used that fixpack before but apparently either missed that component or maybe it wasn't implemented yet? I dunno, either way thanks a bunch, gonna start BG1 with a stalker/mage I think.

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Woolie Wool posted:

E: Why can't I have Smite Evil? I thought that was the paladin's most famous ability. Also the game probably should have made me fall instead of just letting a paladin lie to and rip off that bounty officer in Nazkel. But the guy was so pants-on-head dumb that I just couldn't help myself.

Smite evil is 3rd edition, Baldurs gate is second. In this they get immunity to disease and some other perks that the 3e paladins lost. Although they lose the bonded mount in the games version of the rules.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Paladins in 3rd Edition have immunity to disease and not in 2nd. I think they're one of the few fighter-types that got buffed in 3rd Edition.

I don't think you can fall in BGI, or you have to drive your reputation into the toilet. Same with Rangers.

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009
Pretty sure you can fall just fine. I think you only get a chance to redeem yourself in BG2 so better not do it in BG1.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Woolie Wool posted:

Also I'm disappointed that BG2 does not have a tarrasque as a superboss for crazy people.

There's Demogorgon at least :v:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Is the Tarrasque even a thing in Faerun?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Kavak posted:

Is the Tarrasque even a thing in Faerun?

Yes. It's killed at least three times in canonical adventure modules; has multiple references in other sources; and even appears on a random encounter table in Elminster's Ecologies.

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Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

insanityv2 posted:

wtf is the context for that passage?

Like is it Tomoko talking about Saverok or something? Thats really the only possible context I could think of.

Also has this been discussed in the thread yet?

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48233/shaman-specifics


Whether or not this class is worthwhile depends on one thing: is there an animation for the dance?


^^only acceptable dance animation imo

theres no animation but the dance button is on the main hud menu. its part of the beta patch but i haven't played around with it much yet.

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