|
Yeah I never liked how in bascially every 4x game you were supposed to colonize everything and eventually turn them all into earth's. Barren rock next to the sun? Terraform it. Gas giant? Compress it into a planet and now it's earth.
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 03:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 01:55 |
|
|
Randarkman posted:It kinda makes sense if you think about it. It seems to be supposed to represent people valuing the good of the collective (which could be many things including the state ruling the collection of citizens/subjects) over the rights or needs of the individuals making up the collective, such an outlook might very well accept the slavery of some individuals as benefitting the collective as a whole. The idea of universal rights is very individualist, because it puts the value of EACH life as being more important than the value of ALL life - that protecting individual rights is more important than the greater good (or rather that the protection of individual rights IS the greater good). Collectivism is about putting the growth/survival of the species/nation/whatever ahead of any individual sacrifices required to achieve that goal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
In a way capitalism could be seen as extreme collectivist as the only social good is "the economy" and all others are disposable towards that end. A policy of unemployment to keep labour costs down is just for the greater good of "the economy" which all must sacrifice to grow and protect. Individuals don't matter, only the greater market. Individual achievement or happiness is meaningless unless the market says so. Meanwhile some sort of startrek marxism is all about personal growth and development, maximizing individual comfort and happiness even if it results in a society that isn't min-maxed for growth and production, no one's rights are worth trampling even if the market would normally dictate it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:It kinda makes sense if you think about it. It seems to be supposed to represent people valuing the good of the collective (which could be many things including the state ruling the collection of citizens/subjects) over the rights or needs of the individuals making up the collective, such an outlook might very well accept the slavery of some individuals as benefitting the collective as a whole. 2xcollectivist is what showed penalty less slavery for the reasons you mention.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 03:59
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:In a way capitalism could be seen as extreme collectivist as the only social good is "the economy" and all others are disposable towards that end. A policy of unemployment to keep labour costs down is just for the greater good of "the economy" which all must sacrifice to grow and protect. Individuals don't matter, only the greater market. Individual achievement or happiness is meaningless unless the market says so. Meanwhile some sort of startrek marxism is all about personal growth and development, maximizing individual comfort and happiness even if it results in a society that isn't min-maxed for growth and production, no one's rights are worth trampling even if the market would normally dictate it. Star Trek Marxism is also kind of weird because it exists post-scarcity , so the collective needs of society already ARE met by default and there's basically no reason to restrict individual liberties beyond the basic "don't murder people" logical system of laws. Thanks to things like replicators and transporters, their only practical need is energy, which they also seem to have in abundance thanks to super efficient reactor technology. Presumably in Stellaris it will be a bit more difficult to keep your people satisfied so you'd have reason to follow harsher ethics beyond just being a dick for no reason.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:05
|
|
|
Hopefully this game will let me invoke my meganerd dreams of starting as a bunch of shitlord humans and evolving via Star Trek into The Culture where everything is run by omniscient AIs and the purpose of life is to be really good at sex.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Star Trek Marxism is also kind of weird because it exists post-scarcity , so the collective needs of society already ARE met by default and there's basically no reason to restrict individual liberties beyond the basic "don't murder people" logical system of laws. Thanks to things like replicators and transporters, their only practical need is energy, which they also seem to have in abundance thanks to super efficient reactor technology. Presumably in Stellaris it will be a bit more difficult to keep your people satisfied so you'd have reason to follow harsher ethics beyond just being a dick for no reason. I'm not an expert on Star Trek's replicators or cornucopia technology in general but I imagine there is some sort of limitation to the technology that prevents people from just replicating themselves the most valuable and sought after materials known to man, I seem to remember it needing some sort of base material to work with so it can transform the matter into something else and there being an upper limit to the complexity of the things it can replicate. It's also closely related to the technology used in Holodecks, which have been known to spontaneously kill people. Most of the strife in ST's universe seemed to be related to classism (among aliens mostly) rather than poverty. Though that seemed to have changed in the reboot which saw the United Federation of Planets shift into a more violent, warmongering organization. I also don't know how energy is supposed to work as a currency... why not just keep building power plants until you had terawatts of energy at your disposal? I mean, what would you do with is afterwards?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:27
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:I'm not an expert on Star Trek's replicators or cornucopia technology in general but I imagine there is some sort of limitation to the technology that prevents people from just replicating themselves the most valuable and sought after materials known to man, I seem to remember it needing some sort of base material to work with so it can transform the matter into something else and there being an upper limit to the complexity of the things it can replicate. It's also closely related to the technology used in Holodecks, which have been known to spontaneously kill people. AFAIK they just don't have money anymore, so there's no need for energy as a currency. And that also means there's no reason to stop people from replicating valuable and sought-after materials. That, in fact, would be a good thing since then everybody can enjoy the benefits of whatever the beneficial properties of those rare materials are. Star Trek is literally a Utopia. It's post-scarcity, post-capitalism. Nobody needs to work because at any time they can go push a button a machine and it will create whatever they want for them. So instead they sit around playing bad music and making paintings and poo poo. And philosophizing over the nature of humanity. There's no benefit to being rich and no downside to being poor because at any time you can use your limitless energy and magic energy-to-matter machines to create whatever you want from nothing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:38
|
|
|
There are some limits to what they can replicate. Basically any type of food, clothing, furniture, and most basic medicines can be replicated. But some critical things like dilithium crystals (warp drive fuel) and certain types of medicine are too complex to be replicated. So there is some incentive to get out there and make stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:43
|
|
|
I haven't seen this posted here yet, a Paradox forums user did some digging in the HoI4 website source and came up with some interesting tidbits. It looks like a May 25th release and a €40/$40/£30 price point. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/changes-to-the-hoi4-website-and-some-speculation.913602/
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
Pakled posted:There are some limits to what they can replicate. Basically any type of food, clothing, furniture, and most basic medicines can be replicated. But some critical things like dilithium crystals (warp drive fuel) and certain types of medicine are too complex to be replicated. So there is some incentive to get out there and make stuff. Iirc latinum (money) can't be replicated and anyone the shows wants to appear snobbish always complains that replicated drinks aren't quite right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:46
|
|
|
Krill Nye posted:I haven't seen this posted here yet, a Paradox forums user did some digging in the HoI4 website source and came up with some interesting tidbits. It looks like a May 25th release and a €40/$40/£30 price point. quote:Location: Canada
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:48
|
|
|
Also an Imperial Germany avatar.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:49
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:I'm not an expert on Star Trek's replicators or cornucopia technology in general but I imagine there is some sort of limitation to the technology that prevents people from just replicating themselves the most valuable and sought after materials known to man, I seem to remember it needing some sort of base material to work with so it can transform the matter into something else and there being an upper limit to the complexity of the things it can replicate. It's also closely related to the technology used in Holodecks, which have been known to spontaneously kill people. You've overlooked that for the regular person on a core Federation world, things are pretty much completely post-scarcity. There are limitations on what can be replicated, but those are primarily related to the kinds of things civilians don't have much need for anyway, like warp cores and poo poo; plenty of people avoid replicating this or that because they feel A) Replicators don't get it right, B) There's a value in doing it by hand (Picard's brother's vineyards), or C) Because there's something to the experience of the whole thing that is worthwhile (Sisko's dad's restaurant). There's still poo poo needs done of course, but presumably it's done by some kind of voluntary week and/or apportioned so everyone puts in like a month per year. Also if you can replicate the most valuable substances, they quickly depreciate in value. Which is why the show explicitly says that gold isn't anything special anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:55
|
|
|
Isn't there a point in DS9 where they take the piss out of the Federation not using money?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Isn't there a point in DS9 where they take the piss out of the Federation not using money? I don't recall them doing so directly, but more than once Quark says poo poo like "lol these idiots don't know the value of a gold-pressed latinum bar" and proceeds to try to make a huge profit gouging humans, though he's typically foiled because not used to using money doesn't equate to being rubes (except if you're Harry Kim).
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 04:59
|
|
|
Krill Nye posted:I haven't seen this posted here yet, a Paradox forums user did some digging in the HoI4 website source and came up with some interesting tidbits. It looks like a May 25th release and a €40/$40/£30 price point. That would be cool if true, wonder when Stellaris is supposed to hit though. Late April through Early June is completely stacked for games for me, which is great because I will have virtually 0 free time to play any of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 05:01
|
|
|
Pakled posted:There are some limits to what they can replicate. Basically any type of food, clothing, furniture, and most basic medicines can be replicated. But some critical things like dilithium crystals (warp drive fuel) and certain types of medicine are too complex to be replicated. So there is some incentive to get out there and make stuff. Krill Nye posted:I haven't seen this posted here yet, a Paradox forums user did some digging in the HoI4 website source and came up with some interesting tidbits. It looks like a May 25th release and a €40/$40/£30 price point. Would still be pretty sweet if it's true though - that's right before my birthday, too. Nothing to say it won't be available for pre-order in late May rather than available for purchase. The MSRP also seems really cheap compared to the scope of the game and what other things in this market go for. Not that I'm complaining. edit: Mister Adequate posted:You've overlooked that for the regular person on a core Federation world, things are pretty much completely post-scarcity. There are limitations on what can be replicated, but those are primarily related to the kinds of things civilians don't have much need for anyway, like warp cores and poo poo; plenty of people avoid replicating this or that because they feel A) Replicators don't get it right, B) There's a value in doing it by hand (Picard's brother's vineyards), or C) Because there's something to the experience of the whole thing that is worthwhile (Sisko's dad's restaurant). There's still poo poo needs done of course, but presumably it's done by some kind of voluntary week and/or apportioned so everyone puts in like a month per year. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Mar 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 05:05
|
|
|
There's that one episode where Jake wants to bid in one of Quark's auctions, and he can't because he's got no latinum. Shenanigans ensue, etc. Federation citizens do have things like replicator and transporter allowances, and it's implied that some amount of horse trading does go on with those (if only they had some convenient means of exchange, it'd make things a lot simpler!). And it's worth pointing out that the only reason latinum is used as currency by the other cultures is because they're for all intents and purposes post scarcity too. It's one of the only substances that can't be replicated. I'll let you in on a little secret: not everything about Star Trek makes sense if you look into it! tooterfish fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 05:08
|
|
|
I think stuff like replicator and transporter allowances are only mentioned in the contexts of disabled/isolated ships, where energy is at a premium, and at Starfleet Academy, where they're probably more used as a tool to maintain discipline than to save energy. But yeah, Star Trek isn't exactly the most cohesive fictional universe.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 05:20
|
|
|
Going through multiple writers and a creator who did a loooot of drugs in the 70's will do that to a franchise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 05:30
|
|
|
Pakled posted:I think stuff like replicator and transporter allowances are only mentioned in the contexts of disabled/isolated ships, where energy is at a premium, and at Starfleet Academy, where they're probably more used as a tool to maintain discipline than to save energy. Yeah, I seem to remember transporter allowances coming up in the context of Sisko going back to New Orleans when he was at the Academy, I think replicator allowances mostly existed in the context of Voyager being cut off from the rest of the Federation and its supply lines, which was also why they had a working kitchen.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Yeah I never liked how in bascially every 4x game you were supposed to colonize everything and eventually turn them all into earth's. Barren rock next to the sun? Terraform it. Gas giant? Compress it into a planet and now it's earth. I've been playing around in Aurora 4x (the MS Access exclusive!) and I do like how they do colonization- even though I think there's a huge window to expand on it . Aside from planets that are reasonably easy to colonize (i.e. don't need a ton of material investment to even support population) being moderately rare- maybe 1 every 2 systems- maybe even half of those are likely to be in systems with any sort of mineral wealth that'd eventually make the system valuable- and probably not even a tenth of those planets have anything special on them to the point where they're maybe more interesting than your home planet. And all this with a pretty limited engine and a pretty bog-standard set of planetary buildings. But the thing I appreciate more is that colonizing a planet is a hassle. You don't get to just land a colony ship and call it a day. First you have to survey the system to decide if has anything worth while. Then you have to set up a bunch of jump gates so you can move your ships. Then you drop off some basic automated facilities and maybe some supplies so ships can stop by and refuel. Then you drop off more automated facilities to start digging up minerals or harvesting fuel from gas giants. Then you maybe set up a planet-side fort and some ground forces. Then you maybe haul all your giant expensive terraforming equipment across the stars to start slowly working on the world over the course of years. And then you might start moving colonists there along with things like factories so the place can actually be vaguely productive. And all of these phases have 4 or 5 little steps in them, and each of those steps more or less have to have some manual input. Basically there's a lot of steps to manage and it does create both a sense that you're not going to bother colonizing every system you come across and the ones you do colonize you're probably going to fight for- because drat they were annoying to set up. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Mar 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 07:32
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Yes. There's the default generic capitalist human indirect humans but you can make custom humans that still start in Sol. This is very important to me so I can be pacifist space socialists, although the inability to kill all whites is stripping me of my ability to feel humanoid. Just to be super clear, if you want to start in the Solar system you can customise the Sol humans. If you want to start in a random system, you make a custom race and pick the human body type. Also the HoI release date is wrong, I presume whoever made the website just put a placeholder date there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:00
|
|
|
This politics chat about a fake space game where the politics words mean things like checking a box that lets you own alien slaves is super freaking retarded. FYI.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:25
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:This politics chat about a fake space game where the politics words mean things like checking a box that lets you own alien slaves is super freaking retarded. FYI. Thanks for the information.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:26
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:This politics chat about a fake space game where the politics words mean things like checking a box that lets you own alien slaves is super freaking retarded. FYI. But it's not a fake space game It's real. I've seen it
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:46
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:Just to be super clear, if you want to start in the Solar system you can customise the Sol humans. If you want to start in a random system, you make a custom race and pick the human body type. Why destroy our dreams, all we want is to be Hitler or Space-Hitler as soon as possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 11:57
|
|
|
May 25th release date for HOI4 makes me pessimistic about a Q2 release for Stellaris unless they really want to crowd their and their customers' schedules. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 12:52
|
|
|
Antti posted:May 25th release date for HOI4 makes me pessimistic about a Q2 release for Stellaris unless they really want to crowd their and their customers' schedules. Darkrenown posted:
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 12:54
|
|
|
Oh, I was too freaked out to spot that. Phew.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:05
|
|
|
That is probably one of the release dates they were thinking of before they decided to push it back again  edit: drat your av antti now I want to play FTL again
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:31
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:Also the HoI release date is wrong, I presume whoever made the website just put a placeholder date there. nooooooooo
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:41
|
|
|
Paradox is pouring fuel on the Stellaris hype train on their twitter, they're suprr excited about tonight and their latest tweet is something scheduled for 3 PM Stockholm time tomorrow (10 AM EST for us Yanks). I've got a gut feeling of a surprise launch. But that might just be that I want Stellaris so bad. If there is any studio that could pull it off it's Paradox, their userbase is devoted and large but niche enough that they don't need much marketing hype.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:Paradox is pouring fuel on the Stellaris hype train on their twitter, they're suprr excited about tonight and their latest tweet is something scheduled for 3 PM Stockholm time tomorrow (10 AM EST for us Yanks). The event they have scheduled for tomorrow may just be a recap of the event being held tonight since it will be midnight in Europe when it's being streamed. I don't know why people keep thinking they're all of a sudden just going to drop it on us... this would be the weirdest prelaunch campaign I've seen in a while. But if they were going to announce a elease date then now would be the time since everyone is payimg attention.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:56
|
|
|
They're going to announce that Stellaris is cancelled but their big news is that they've been purchased by EA and will now be working on the mobile version of the Sims. Then Johan will throw a million dollars at the crowd, scream about how rich he is now, and run offstage cackling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:59
|
|
|
I want Stellaris to drop like an orbital strike with no warning but right now
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:59
|
|
|
Oberleutnant posted:I want Stellaris to drop like an orbital strike with no warning but right now Stop that, my penis can only get so erect. Edit: What if Paradox and Obsidian are doing a merger?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 13:59
|
|
|
Oberleutnant posted:I want Stellaris to drop like an orbital strike with no warning but right now That would be really bad, I just got Battlefleet Gothic: Armada.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 01:55 |
|
|
vyelkin posted:purchased by EA and will now be working on the mobile version of the Sims. This would be great. TS4 is already probably the best in the series stability and performance wise and pdox working on stuff placks and expansions would add depth to a base game that just needs a little more content to be the best in the series so far.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2016 14:05
|
|
