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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Looks like Hamill got his wish. He's been pushing for it for ages iirc so he's probably pretty happy.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:39
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Grapplejack posted:He's been pushing for it for ages iirc so he's probably pretty happy.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:45
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anilEhilated posted:Was he? I thought he was disgusted with that role but maybe I'm mistaking it for something. Star Wars, possibly. I think I remember him saying that the only thing that'd get him back as the Joker after the Arkham games was The Killing Joke.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:56
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anilEhilated posted:Was he? I thought he was disgusted with that role but maybe I'm mistaking it for something. Star Wars, possibly. He's said in recent years that he's done with the Joker with the exception of the Killing Joke. From what I understand, doing Joker's voice hurts his throat. Of course, he said he was done after Arkham City and he came back for this one, so...
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Mar 14, 2016 23:11
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Waffleman_ posted:Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill will reprise their roles in the animated adaptation of The Killing Joke. About Goddamn time And Mark Hamill must be happy. It's the way he wanted to end his tenure as the Joker. mauman fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 23:29
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This game's loading elevators/corridors are worse than Mass Effect's. Edit: And headbutting a guy wearing a spiked helmet is a dumb idea even if you're Batman. IMJack fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 00:03
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IMJack posted:This game's loading elevators/corridors are worse than Mass Effect's.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:06
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IMJack posted:This game's loading elevators/corridors are worse than Mass Effect's. There's actually a bunch of small cool stuff in the lab and the lab hallway that scruffy ran past. Most loading elevators have secondary distractions- the one leading to the lab is the only one I can think of that doesn't.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:16
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This isn't an original complaint by any means, but seeing you stumbling across side story after side story has me wondering how long it takes before you just forget the story and the game becomes checklist after checklist. Also, I have to ask: will the Arkham Knight be treating us to a Kylo Ren-style temper tantrum at any point in the future? He seems like the sort of fellow who starts throwing keyboards when he's pissy (with Scarecrow looking on, faintly embarrassed).
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Mar 15, 2016 01:40
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CuwiKhons posted:He's said in recent years that he's done with the Joker with the exception of the Killing Joke. From what I understand, doing Joker's voice hurts his throat. Of course, he said he was done after Arkham City and he came back for this one, so... I'm like, mildly convinced that that whole bit was him angling for a killing joke thing to be made. "Well, I said I'd retire and you want me back for this game DC, I'll go for it but I have one demand..." Of course he's probably actually done with it at this point, so.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:44
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The lab did a good job of freaking me out on my way down. I swore something was gonna jump out at me at some moment. I just couldn't feel comfortable down there, perfect atmosphere. It reminded me of Asylum which had my favorite atmosphere of any game I'd played.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:58
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So Riddler is working with Scarecrow right? Do they ever explicitly say that he's testing/distracting you to further Scarecrow's plan or is it just implied?
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Mar 15, 2016 03:10
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White Coke posted:So Riddler is working with Scarecrow right? Do they ever explicitly say that he's testing/distracting you to further Scarecrow's plan or is it just implied? The Riddler is more taking advantage of the situation, much like he was in Asylum and City. He may have been providing Intel work for the Knight and Scarecrow, but he's not actually involved in the plot.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:11
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He's not technically under any orders but Scarecrow did talk to him and he was at the big group meeting and he did contribute money to the Arkham Knight militia. All Scarecrow asked him to do was hold off on making trouble until Halloween - Scarecrow's using him as a distraction.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:55
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White Coke posted:So Riddler is working with Scarecrow right? Do they ever explicitly say that he's testing/distracting you to further Scarecrow's plan or is it just implied? It gets explained.
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Mar 15, 2016 03:58
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CuwiKhons posted:He's not technically under any orders but Scarecrow did talk to him and he was at the big group meeting and he did contribute money to the Arkham Knight militia. All Scarecrow asked him to do was hold off on making trouble until Halloween - Scarecrow's using him as a distraction. Well it's loving working.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:00
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Waffleman_ posted:Well it's loving working. It really is. Can you imagine how much more time Batman would be able to dedicate to stopping Scarecrow if he wasn't loving about with Riddler's poo poo? Scarecrow made the right call here.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:09
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Discendo Vox posted:There's actually a bunch of small cool stuff in the lab and the lab hallway that scruffy ran past. Most loading elevators have secondary distractions- the one leading to the lab is the only one I can think of that doesn't. You can examine the body of Langstrom's wife and Batman is nice enough to close her eyes while musing over the whole thing. The tank battles get insanely chaotic, but they didn't strike me as bad so much as outstaying their welcome (much like most of the Batmobile stuff). I did dislike the Cobra/"Predator" tanking stuff, but that might just be because I suck at it admittedly. It was a twist in gameplay, just one that kind of got frustrating to me.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:10
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CuwiKhons posted:It really is. Can you imagine how much more time Batman would be able to dedicate to stopping Scarecrow if he wasn't loving about with Riddler's poo poo? Scarecrow made the right call here. I'm imagining Riddler and Clock King teaming up to figure out increasingly convoluted ways to make Batman waste time.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:17
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Okay, so... This is the point where I would most likely have said "Y'know what? gently caress Riddler." This is getting tedious. And it's not just because he's trying exactly the same thing, for the fourth time running, and somehow expecting it to turn out different. Funnily enough, it's exactly the same reason why people have written in the past that they don't want a System Shock 3... Because the villainy just isn't there when they've been beaten enough. All I'm thinking, as I listen to him rattle on and on, is... "Oh, jeez, he's gonna do the whole AAAA YOU'RE CHEATING thing again, and then he's going to have a Plan B, and by the time he thinks about Plan C, he's going to get his arse kicked. Again." And yeah, so far, the tally is Ivy imprisoned, Barbara kidnapped, Catwoman bomb-collared, and Francine Langstrom (Pretty much one of Kirk's main motivators in pretty much everywhere else he's represented, and a character all of her own) just gone. How many women have we met who actually have agency in this story so far again? Because I'm coming up a blank. Sorry for sounding like a negative nancy, except sorta not, because... God-drat, we're something like three hours in, and if I had reviewed it, this would have been the point where I said "Y'know what? I don't have to play any further, thanks."
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Mar 15, 2016 04:20
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Does Harley count? Because I'm pretty sure Harley counts, even if she's DLC, it's still a part of the story. There's also Oracle actually trying to get information to batman despite being crippled and captured by the Arkham Knight. Ivy may as well have not been there, though I get the feeling she's got a reason for letting herself be locked up inside GCPD. And Man-bat is like a four segment sidequest, how much character development of the guy's wife do you want for what amounts to like 20 minutes of gameplay? As far as the Riddler goes, the whole "you cheated" thing is a part of the character, so if you don't like it there's not much you can do. But aside from this section, I don't think you HAVE to do anything more for the Riddler, just leave Catwoman in her collar and there you go. Also I like the fact that in this game Batman has had it with Riddler's poo poo too. In the previous games he was just pretty silent about the whole fact that he's stopping Riddler like this, now it's "I'll loving play his stupid games and be done with it once I kick his rear end." IBlameRoadSuess fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 04:28
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CuwiKhons posted:It really is. Can you imagine how much more time Batman would be able to dedicate to stopping Scarecrow if he wasn't loving about with Riddler's poo poo? Scarecrow made the right call here. A lot of things are distracting Batman tonight.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:34
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:Does Harley count? Because I'm pretty sure Harley counts, even if she's DLC, it's still a part of the story. There's also Oracle actually trying to get information to batman despite being crippled and captured by the Arkham Knight. Ivy may as well have not been there, though I get the feeling she's got a reason for letting herself be locked up inside GCPD. And Man-bat is like a four segment sidequest, how much character development of the guy's wife do you want for what amounts to like 20 minutes of gameplay? You are right, Harley does count. Yes, Oracle tries to get info to the batman. But how is this different from, say, Princess Peach leaving a McGuffin for Mario? Because, make no mistake, it's a McGuffin. Its whole purpose is to advance the plot, and without it, they'd have to have the Arkham Knight say "Hey, come rescue the hostage over heeeeere!" Or, y'know, have a different hook. (EDIT 2: Or make the Arkham Knight look less competent than he already looks.) As to Francine? Easy. She is alive, although injured, and says some things, possibly relating to her role in this mess. While not great, it's automatically better than "She is killed, because DRAMA and TRAGEDY." Oh, and a Joker line. Let's not forget the Joker line. Similarly, yes, you can leave Catwoman in her collar, and Riddler to his asinine smugness. Except then you get a clear narrative dissonance, because, let's face it, that's not what Batman would do. It's a hook to get you to keep doing them, because that's what Batman would do. So... That doesn't solve the narrative problem introduced, that you have "Save the hostage, or break character." EDIT: Yes, Batman is tired of Riddler's poo poo. But, like Deadpool complaining about a Sewer level (that then goes on for another twenty or so minutes), it again doesn't fix anything.  EDIT 3: For a good example of what you can do with just four audio segments/dialogues, go back to Arkham Asylum. There's lots of examples to pick from. JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 05:03
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Riddler's not the one with a problem. Batman's the one with a pathological need to solve puzzles/play minigames.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:23
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A background detail two videos ago I liked that Scruffy didn't catch in the train station... The ad in the train station says "RUN to Keystone". Keystone City is where the Flash lives.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:51
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It is a batman game where poo poo has been funneled into a cruise ship turbine. The only people in control are the villains, which does perhaps include Harley Quinn, and maybe Batman by virtue of beating these guys at their own game so far. Just about every cop, firefighter, paramedic, etc we've met has been a playing chip in all this. Same with Nightwing, same with Oracle. It seems like the writers want to tell a Batman's Very Bad Day story by running him, his support cast, and all of Gotham through a genuinely winnowing gauntlet and by focusing strictly on the fact that women have been imperiled, when it has been men and women, we ignore the overall intent. In particular all this has been done to build up the headlining villain and his plot. This is good writing, at least in so far as we define it as writing that meets an objective. Having the villains relentlessly fail at targeting Batman's allies as suggested does absolutely nothing to sell any sort of escalating menace or threat but rather neuters the villain just to pay homage to the strengths of Batman's support cast. That would not build up a new, dangerous villain. I guess if we're so worried about cliches Oracle and Catwoman could have been written out of this one but regardless this villain needs to have definite blows against Batman or he fails as an antagonist at the closer of a trilogy. You could say the same of recurring side villains like the Riddler, who've already held generic hostages, that personal hostages up the ante. As far as I can tell, the only support members who haven't taken licks are Tim and Alfred and we're only a smidgen into the game. Once they're done Bruce will be batting a solid zero on this one.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:54
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TwoPair posted:A background detail two videos ago I liked that Scruffy didn't catch in the train station... Related, I saw a couple of Kord Industries signs which are obviously for the Blue Beetle's Ted Kord public persona. Hey rich and vigilante, just like Batman! I agree with JtD; this Riddler stuff isn't entertaining or somehow providing insight into the character, it's annoying and boring.
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Mar 15, 2016 06:03
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hard counter posted:It is a batman game where poo poo has been funneled into a cruise ship turbine. The only people in control are the villains, which does perhaps include Harley Quinn, and maybe Batman by virtue of beating these guys at their own game so far. I'm inclined to agree, however I think the thing that gets most folks upset that perhaps you're missing is the part you mentioned about how we're only a smidgen into the game. Scarecrow's/Arkham Knight's plan does revolve around robbing Batman of his allies, so Oracle and Catwoman's captures are justified, but it is hard to ignore that easily his most prominent female allies both get taken with hardly a mission between them (without counting side missions) before we've even unlocked Gotham's second island. If the whole Catwoman thing started even a little later, then it'd still be problematic, but easier to accept as part of the plot rather than Rocksteady throwing Catwoman into distress just to provide a flimsy plot justification for Batman to have to solve riddles. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 06:32
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A fair observation, I can see how it would raise hackles taken so quick. Ultimately though I feel like a large part of this sort of criticism is aimed at the society that produced the game and the audience's own social climate rather than the game's actual content ... so far, who knows maybe this thing really is as lovely as people assume and I just haven't seen its end yet. Asking a developer to space out potentially problematic content (content that may not be problematic within the context of its own narrative) so nobody could get the wrong idea at any point validates these hasty knee jerk reactions when this kind of analysis absolutely should follow a complete run through and have some thoroughness to its thought. I don't see how else you would accurately form an impression of the game's events - someone was disappointed that Barbara didn't at least find some way of leveraging her capture and, last video, she did just that. There was concern that she hasn't made independent contributions as the operator (Bats made the chemical deduction, not her) and later we find out that she did work out a weakness in the tanks as the OPs person and Lucius made a point of complimenting her technical skill on the chip. It'll be hilarious if we later find that Barbara has freed herself and/or found some way of defeating the AK from within  People can discuss whatever they want, whenever they want but I think it would be fair to leave this kind of stuff for later. E: VVVV Now I know for sure this kind of discussion is more appropriate to the Games Thread or at least the LP's end. What if Bruce needs Oracle to write a virus that disables every tank & drone in Gotham in one elegant swoop versus him having to brute force every encounter with the bat-tank? That'd certainly be a vital service over being a wayne tech upgrade. hard counter fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 07:26
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hard counter posted:This is good writing, at least in so far as we define it as writing that meets an objective. Having the villains relentlessly fail at targeting Batman's allies as suggested does absolutely nothing to sell any sort of escalating menace or threat but rather neuters the villain just to pay homage to the strengths of Batman's support cast. That would not build up a new, dangerous villain. I guess if we're so worried about cliches Oracle and Catwoman could have been written out of this one but regardless this villain needs to have definite blows against Batman or he fails as an antagonist at the closer of a trilogy. You could say the same of recurring side villains like the Riddler, who've already held generic hostages, that personal hostages up the ante. You're right, in the sense that this is effective villain establishment for a new character that we know relatively little about. The Oracle plot thread is one that, so far, has shown that Batman has put his allies in danger, and the Arkham Knight is willing to exploit that as one of Batman's many weaknesses. ...except that Oracle is basically defenseless, contributes nothing as an active player of the plot, and gets victimized not just the one time with Arkham Knight/Scarecrow kidnapping her, but also through Batman's double-guilty-conscience of watching her get paralyzed by the Joker due to whatever brainfuckery is going on. It's a decent plot hook (One of Batman's important allies gets kidnapped by the new villain, cementing his competency and legitimizing that he is a threat) but it has been hosed at every step of the way. Oracle doesn't do anything that Batman couldn't solve by using Alfred, Lucius, or hell, a short loving monologue while tapping buttons on a screen. She could have been replaced with any other part of the main cast (Nightwing, Robin, Alfred, Lucius) and have it not matter in the slightest. The only reason this comes up is because she is not written with an explicit advantage given to Batman outside of her being the voice in his ear (that is immediately replaced with nearly zero consequence of Batman functioning as a hero), and she is pretty specifically used in the story as a crowbar between Commissioner Gordon and Batman. Her kidnapping serves to bolster the Arkham Knight, tear apart Gordon and Batman, and leave Batman ultimately weaker--except Batman doesn't appear any weaker because Oracle has done gently caress-all, the Arkham Knight doesn't seem that much more villainous because there's no impact from Oracle's disappearance, and her use as a glorified plot device that only serves to sway the relationship balance in a predominantly male cast otherwise is ill-advised beyond belief. If Oracle provided a service that Alfred didn't immediately fill, this entire sequence would be much, much better. But she doesn't--she's written as a damsel in distress, with no other qualities that we've seen so far to prop up her character as anything but a mission objective that Batman needs to cross off in order to get more sweet, sweet Waynetech upgrades.
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Mar 15, 2016 07:33
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so what youre saying is that they should have had alfred get taken hostage AGAIN or robin get taken hostage AGAIN instead.
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Mar 15, 2016 08:19
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TwoPair posted:A background detail two videos ago I liked that Scruffy didn't catch in the train station... The ad is actually animated so that a red streak flashes through it.
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Mar 15, 2016 08:25
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Scaramouche posted:Related, I saw a couple of Kord Industries signs which are obviously for the Blue Beetle's Ted Kord public persona. Hey rich and vigilante, just like Batman! e: I don't mind the Riddler stuff because ultimately, what it comes down to is fun. I enjoyed messing around the city and solving minigames and riddles. It's obviously a case of gameplay before story and I do think the game would be diminished without its collectibles. You could probably pin them on a different villain, though. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 08:28
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anilEhilated posted:e: I don't mind the Riddler stuff because ultimately, what it comes down to is fun. I enjoyed messing around the city and solving minigames and riddles. It's obviously a case of gameplay before story and I do think the game would be diminished without its collectibles. You could probably pin them on a different villain, though. The games so far have done a pretty good job of getting a big selection of Batman villains, why couldn't they do something like the Cluemaster? Maybe have Spoiler or the Riddler even helping you out. If it's Riddler helping you out it A: plays into his sense of superiority and B: he'll probably try and backstab you at the end. Peak Riddler!
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Mar 15, 2016 08:38
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I was hoping for Sportsmaster
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Mar 15, 2016 08:56
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Iretep posted:so what youre saying is that they should have had alfred get taken hostage AGAIN or robin get taken hostage AGAIN instead. When, exactly, has Robin been taken hostage in the Arkham games? Hell, Alfred only got roughed up in Origins, not kidnapped.
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Mar 15, 2016 10:00
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I think in a similar vein to the Central City ad there's one that says "FLY TO METROPOLIS".
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Mar 15, 2016 10:14
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There was also a storefront that said Royal Flush Gang. Also, Miagani island is a reference to the tribe of native americans that lived in Gotham previous to colonizer's arriving. I'll give you one guess at what Miagani means: The Bat People.
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Mar 15, 2016 10:23
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Iretep posted:so what youre saying is that they should have had alfred get taken hostage AGAIN or robin get taken hostage AGAIN instead. Or they could try to write a Batman plot without kidnapping every other character. It is possible, right?
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Mar 15, 2016 10:44
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Aithon posted:Or they could try to write a Batman plot without kidnapping every other character. It is possible, right? It's possible. But it's difficult. Consider Batman's creation and motivations. Bruce Wayne's parents were shot. This instills a sense of protection in Batman. He doesn't want anyone to die, and this goes extra strong for the people Batman/Bruce Wayne cares about. I remember seeing it on Youtube somewhere, a snippet from DC Universe Online or whatever it was. It's voice clips of Batman going over possible weaknesses and counters to different members of the Justice League. He also has a file on himself which is in small part appropriately self-congratulatory, but he points out two weaknesses. 1: Batman is only human. 2: Batman has a huge weakness when it comes to people close to him. As part of Batman's WAR ON CRIME and tacit authorization by the GCPD, he's pulled various people into his orbit. Commissioner Gordon, Oracle, all the Robins, Catwoman, Huntress, Alfred...how do you strike at Batman, who is a near impregnable fortress? You either use incredible force (Bane, backbreaker, etc), or you chip away at the foundations. Kidnapping is always lurking around the corner in Batman comics because it's one of his more powerful motivators.
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Mar 15, 2016 10:58
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