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GonSmithe posted:Yeah I went digging after I posted that. Oh well. I still think it was a dumb decision, whether its in the books or not, I just don't think it was "character assassination." Melisandre or Selyse could have done it on their own. Or Stannis could have, well, broken before he bent. He could have lost hope, maybe after running into Ice Walkers for the first time, or he could have just become increasingly religious over time to the point that when confronted with that decision he would have done it. There's lot of ways to make that particular scene work in the story. Then there's the way the show did it (make Stannis bring his wife and child to battle for no reason, have Ramsay beat him by running out shirtless with 5 men and burning his potatoes, then make Stannis' character do a 180 because FfC/DwD don't have enough shocking scenes) Call it what you want, it's bad TV just like the Sand Snakes' arc, or Sansa being sold off and raped for no reason. Elman fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 15:08
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GonSmithe posted:Yeah I went digging after I posted that. Oh well. I still think it was a dumb decision, whether its in the books or not, I just don't think it was "character assassination." But we can't confuse plot with character. Even if a similar plot point happens in both versions of the story, the reasons they happen can be very different. I've seen it suggested that perhaps hearing the rest of Stannis' story in bullet points from Martin gave them a very strong interpretation of Stannis as "evil" and it prompted them to ignore the nuance of his journey in the books, which is definitely a possibility in my opinion. This is why it's worth comparing and contrasting the books and the show, because the general outcome being the same isn't all that matters. They definitely have a habit of whitewashing or softening the more heinous actions of characters they like and have a particular perception of, like Tyrion, Shae, Jorah, Daenerys, Cersei, even Tywin and Ser Alliser to an extent. Who's to say they wouldn't do that in the reverse with a character who they perceive as villainous? I very much doubt Shireen's death will be like that in the books, even just logistically it's very unlikely for Melisandre and Shireen to make it to Stannis' camp before the battle between his forces and the Boltons. I think Stannis is going to be in much more dire straits in the books when this happens, and it'll probably seem less abrupt.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:09
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Elman posted:There's lot of ways to make that particular scene work in the story. Then there's the way the show did it (make Stannis bring his wife and child to battle for no reason, have Ramsay beat him by running out shirtless with 5 men and burning his potatoes, then make Stannis' character do a 180 because FfC/DwD don't have enough shocking scenes) 20 good men, actually. But yeah, everything about it was so stupid. I dont think GRRM is such a great writer but I really doubt he would ever write anything that stupid and out of nowhere. This and the whole Sansa with Ramsay in Winterfell poo poo were IMHO the lowest moments in this show, way worst than even the Dorne stuff EDIT: vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv it made no sense at all, it was the most obsviously stupid plan and Sansa followed it agreeingly. All in all it was little more than a pretext for raping her Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 15:20
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I actually liked the Sansa/Winterfell things. Gave her character something to do and gave us more Theon. Plus we got Chekhov's cork screw.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:49
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GonSmithe posted:Yeah I went digging after I posted that. Oh well. I still think it was a dumb decision, whether its in the books or not, I just don't think it was "character assassination." It's "character assassination" because he sacrificed her for a stupid reason, during a contrived setback, for very little gain. We don't even get to see him agonize over the decision or consider alternate solutions because building up to the moment would spoil surprise. There was also no reason for Shireen to be with Stannis in the first place, unless sacrificing her was a contingency plan from the moment he set out.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:55
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Stannis had no intentions of returning to Castle Black. Why would he leave his child and wife behind if he wasn't going back?
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Mar 14, 2016 16:12
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Mr. Nice! posted:Stannis had no intentions of returning to Castle Black. Why would he leave his child and wife behind if he wasn't going back? He can always send for them after the battle is won.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:16
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He intended to go to his new seat, the nightfort. Like geez can't you guys be as obsessive about the minutiae of these novels as I am.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:17
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quote:LONDON — Ian McShane is not a man to mince his words. Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:31
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It would've helped if the show actually bothered to have establishing shots of a blizzard decimating his army or something. Instead, we had discussions in tents about it being cold and then Ramsey's team of magical teleporting fire ninjas destroyed "all" the food (again not shown, just the aftermath). Alternatively, if they didn't give Stannis the scene earlier in the season establishing without a doubt that he did care about his daughter, then you could maybe buy that he was just a terrible person. Instead, you get scenes in a tent where people say its cold and food is gone and Stannis is like, welp, better burn the daughter that I was established as legitimately caring for. It was such a wet fart of an arc. Like, I kinda get what the show creators were trying to go for, but the actual execution of the arc was just terrible. Pretty similar to Dorne in some ways. I feel like last season could have been improved a lot if the show wasn't forced to make yearly deadlines.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:40
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colonel_korn posted:Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:53
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Ian McShane remains one of the coolest people in the world. Thirded.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:05
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So It Goes posted:It would've helped if the show actually bothered to have establishing shots of a blizzard decimating his army or something. Instead, we had discussions in tents about it being cold and then Ramsey's team of magical teleporting fire ninjas destroyed "all" the food (again not shown, just the aftermath). Alternatively, if they didn't give Stannis the scene earlier in the season establishing without a doubt that he did care about his daughter, then you could maybe buy that he was just a terrible person. Instead, you get scenes in a tent where people say its cold and food is gone and Stannis is like, welp, better burn the daughter that I was established as legitimately caring for. It was such a wet fart of an arc. Like, I kinda get what the show creators were trying to go for, but the actual execution of the arc was just terrible. Pretty similar to Dorne in some ways. I feel like last season could have been improved a lot if the show wasn't forced to make yearly deadlines. They have a couple of scenes with Davos and Stannis talking about how dire their predicament is.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:21
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colonel_korn posted:Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:32
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Al loving Swearengen posted:“Get a loving life. It’s only tits and dragons." colonel_korn posted:Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:07
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That would be perfect.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:10
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It's also ridiculous cause the only people to whom he 'gave the plot away' are people who already knew what the loving plot is without him having to say a word.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:12
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Why must he only be in one episode? Somebody start a crowdsource to get him a recurring part and we'll get the whole series leaked post-haste. 
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Mar 14, 2016 19:09
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Mr. Nice! posted:They have a couple of scenes with Davos and Stannis talking about how dire their predicament is. This is literally the point of my post? Having people talk about snow in tents is not enough to convey how serious of a situation it is apparently supposed to be.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:13
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Especially when you are trying to get a character, that uniformly loves his daughter and would never do anything to hurt her, to believably turn around and burn her alive. Casting aside issues of believability, this goes against every single thing that Stannis would normally stand for. There is no justice in what he does and it simultaneously destroys any possible future his family might have. This is the act of an extremely desperate and irrational/insane individual, which is not at all how Dillane played it nor how it was written.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:19
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Stannis was a real jerk in the last couple episodes.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:21
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So It Goes posted:This is literally the point of my post? Having people talk about snow in tents is not enough to convey how serious of a situation it is apparently supposed to be. Yeah but this is a show that goes 'we have a hundred thousand soldiers' and then shows like 20 rushing the walls with one scaling ladder. Frankly I was surprised we even got the CGI destruction of Stan's army, I was expecting it was gonna be a fade to black. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 19:28
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colonel_korn posted:Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:29
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colonel_korn posted:Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please. It's not like I'll have TWOW to draw a pithy adapted quote from so yeah, it will probably be "Game of Thrones SPOILER Thread: Get a loving life. It's only tits and dragons".
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Mar 14, 2016 23:29
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Solice Kirsk posted:I actually liked the Sansa/Winterfell things. Gave her character something to do and gave us more Theon. Plus we got Chekhov's cork screw. I didn't mind the Sansa/Winterfell plot. I think it would have been more realistic (lol, did I really just use that word?) for Littlefinger to leave Sansa to gently caress around all season at The Eyrie, but she is too popular of a character/actress to do nothing for a whole season. I assume that something from GRRM's notes involve getting Sansa back to Winterfell eventually so the writers pushed her plot forward to that point. My problem with it (as many have with Stannis's end) is the poor execution on the show. Before last season aired there was much said about Sansa entering "the game" and having more agency to manipulate people and events, sort of becoming Littlefinger's protege. The two even have that specific conversation on that hillside before they get to Winterfell. But instead she gets there and immediately becomes Ramsey's rape-puppet. I think her plot last season would have gone over a lot better if they had showed her actually manipulating people and stirring up poo poo in Winterfell. As it was, all she did was have one half-hearted discussion with Ramsey where she asked about what Fat Walda's pregnancy means for him. And regarding Stannis, I agree that it was a very abrupt turn for him to go from absolutely loving his daughter to being willing to sacrifice her (and in such a horrific way). But from my perspective, Stannis's story all along has been of a man with an angel on one shoulder (Davos) and a devil on the other (Melisandre), and what happens when you spend too much time listening to the devil (you are led to ruin). But I haven't read the books, just the show so I am obviously missing much more nuance in his character.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:00
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Lol I forgot all about Littlefinger's little lecture where he encouraged her to try and manipulate Ramsey. And it looked like it was going to happen when Walda announced she was pregnant and Sansa immediately recognized how that threatened Ramsey's status. But then things switched gears to torture porn so fast that I still can't believe it. Lol D&B are such hacks.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:02
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The angel on your shoulder don't suck your dick so there's that.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:40
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I hope GRRM gets offended by that and procrastinates further.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:42
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So is Snow dead or not?
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Mar 15, 2016 11:11
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NutritiousSnack posted:So is Snow dead or not?
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Mar 15, 2016 12:32
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Snow is dead, but Jon Stark is eternal.
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Mar 15, 2016 13:29
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Okay, get this. Jon Snow stays dead. The Watch and the Wildlings fight eachother, the people further South play their idiot kingmaker game for a while, until the White Walkers breach the Wall and murder everyone, and ice slowly takes over Westeros. The White Walkers throw the last of the human casualties, including Davos, into a pit, and we slowly watch snow and ice fill the pit until it's just another flat expanse of snow, and our view lingers here for a few moments. Then the camera shakes as the giant foot of an AT-AT walker comes smashing down on our patch of ground. The camera pulls back to reveal a legion of stormtroopers, walking in step across the snowy plain. The Rebel base on Hoth is no longer a secret, and Darth Vader has brought the might of the Imperial Army to wipe them out.
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Mar 15, 2016 13:53
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this year, phenotype is a writer on the show
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Mar 15, 2016 14:22
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This yeah, Phenotype is a-god dammit.
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Mar 15, 2016 14:25
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Phenotype posted:Okay, get this. Jon Snow stays dead. The Watch and the Wildlings fight eachother, the people further South play their idiot kingmaker game for a while, until the White Walkers breach the Wall and murder everyone, and ice slowly takes over Westeros. The White Walkers throw the last of the human casualties, including Davos, into a pit, and we slowly watch snow and ice fill the pit until it's just another flat expanse of snow, and our view lingers here for a few moments. Then the camera shakes as the giant foot of an AT-AT walker comes smashing down on our patch of ground. The camera pulls back to reveal a legion of stormtroopers, walking in step across the snowy plain. The Rebel base on Hoth is no longer a secret, and Darth Vader has brought the might of the Imperial Army to wipe them out. Better than the stannis story from last season 
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Mar 15, 2016 14:32
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Vader+L=J
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Mar 15, 2016 17:37
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1-800-DOCTORB posted:Vader+L=J Vader did not have sex with Luke! 
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Mar 15, 2016 18:51
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Solice Kirsk posted:Vader did not have sex with Luke! Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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Mar 15, 2016 22:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:Vader did not have sex with Luke! He prob gave him a courtesy tug after chopping his hand off tho
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Mar 15, 2016 23:26
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Ague Proof posted:Search your feelings, you know it to be true. This belongs in a museum. Well done! 
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Mar 16, 2016 00:38
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