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dogstile posted:That's my point man, it might as well be nothing. I'll drop it because its a dumb thing to fight about and I don't actually want to die on a hill over my wording though. Yeah we're just arguing semantics at this point. dogstile posted:All my buds said they were going to do this, then they skipped 19/24/29. Now they're "not sure about the endgame". lol dogstile posted:If they didn't they have vastly underestimated how much free time people have. Honestly I can't think of an MMO-esque game ever made where they didn't do this. Maybe EQ because it was the dark ages back then, people didn't know what MMOs were, and that game really did take loving months to hit max level regardless of how you did it or how much you poopsocked. Early WoW took a long time too. But ever since burning crusade, people have poopsocked to max level faster than anybody expected. I remember in SWTOR it was a huge deal that people hit max level in like a week and the devs clearly expected it to take like two months, there was so very little end-game content. Destiny it took very little time at all but I guess they probably knew that was coming.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:48
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dogstile posted:If they didn't they have vastly underestimated how much free time people have.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:50
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:there should just be a FFA last-man-standing phoenix coin arena where everyone wagers 5 phoenix coins * (number of times won minus lost, minimum 1) in the form of bringing it with them nah. arenas are dumb. I like the open world pvp.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:50
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I would definitely pay good money for an extra area that you have to take bird coins into as a huge risk/reward thing. Maybe the more you take in the higher quality drops you can expect? A daily's worth of bird coins at a minimum but add half a percentage point for every extra coin you take in or something stupid.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:50
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Kamikaze Raider posted:nah. arenas are dumb. I like the open world pvp. i would like this but in this game http://www.mariowiki.com/Bash_%27n%27_Cash
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Mar 15, 2016 16:53
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I think supply drop chests that drop guaranteed purples/yellows and some dz bux/birdcoins and can only be opened by one person would be a really cool event type thing that would encourage pvp.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:53
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:there should just be a FFA last-man-standing phoenix coin arena where everyone wagers 5 phoenix coins * (number of times won minus lost, minimum 1) in the form of bringing it with them I love this idea. Sergeant_Crunch posted:I think supply drop chests that drop guaranteed purples/yellows and some dz bux/birdcoins and can only be opened by one person would be a really cool event type thing that would encourage pvp. Yeah some kind of public "look here! its loot! fight over it!" event is what the DZ is sorely lacking. Drop a high-end gun in the middle of the zone and give everybody a 2 minute head's up, you better believe there's gonna be some rogue activity. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 16:54
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:I think supply drop chests that drop guaranteed purples/yellows and some dz bux/birdcoins and can only be opened by one person would be a really cool event type thing that would encourage pvp. except that the problem that's stopping pvp is people being precious about their dz rank, and making a swarm spot with a chest won't really incentivize anyone to risk getting dogpiled if they manage to take the chest. Especially if that chest just has something they could just as easily get from a boss or something.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:56
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there also really should be no real penalty to dying in the dz other than getting a huge !!WANTED!! marker over your head and getting your poo poo stolen but it's really just carebear land atm especially with the steep penalties and ability to go down levels (what the gently caress?)
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Mar 15, 2016 16:58
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Kamikaze Raider posted:except that the problem that's stopping pvp is people being precious about their dz rank, and making a swarm spot with a chest won't really incentivize anyone to risk getting dogpiled if they manage to take the chest. Especially if that chest just has something they could just as easily get from a boss or something. Yeah it'd definitely have to be something especially good, but if it was especially good (high number of birdbucks or a high-end gun) then I think it'd work. Combine that with a bit of a nerf to the rogue penalties and you'd be good. (But don't nerf it so far there's no penalty at all) The real question is, how long should you have to spend fighting PvE to make up for going rogue and getting killed? If the answer is "no time" then that's convenient but then everybody goes rogue at the drop of a hat. If the answer is "hours" then its too long and nobody does it. Tough to find the exact balance point, but currently it is too much. Anime Schoolgirl posted:there also really should be no real penalty to dying in the dz other than getting a huge !!WANTED!! marker over your head and getting your poo poo stolen There is no real penalty to dying other than getting your poo poo stolen. The penalty is for going rogue and then getting killed like a bitch. Which should be penalized. But not so hard. Also the wanted marker is for going rogue, not for getting killed. And that's so you can't just gank people and run away over and over, they get a chance to come find you.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:58
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As long as it is the one of the only reasonable ways to gear at endgame, PvP in DZ is going to be tacitly frowned upon.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:00
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You guys weren't kidding about General Assembly. It's raining purples! Hallelujah! None of them are upgrades, but there's just so many! I wonder if an SSD would improve these atrocious loading times. Especially when you get a loading screen leaving a group, then a new one changing to a new group. Then in DZ when you enter or leave a safe house. The longest loading is that first one, too. Edit: The big thing I actually forgot to ask about, DPS. I'm having a hard time recognizing if a weapon is an upgrade to one I currently have. I've been told by friends that the DPS number is worthless and you should look at the bullet damage and RPM, but I can't really tell when those values are so close or the RPM is different compared to the damage. I just don't understand it. Is DPS useful at all? Ularg fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 17:00
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Zaphod42 posted:The real question is, how long should you have to spend fighting PvE to make up for going rogue and getting killed? If the answer is "no time" then that's convenient but then everybody goes rogue at the drop of a hat. like give minor token passive bonuses like maybe 2-10 bird coins an hour and a +20% scavenger boost for non-rogue status to whatever they open up there are people making DZ 0 characters just to pvp which is one of the most awkward workarounds i've seen in this sort of game
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Mar 15, 2016 17:00
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I dunno, at least in the beta I kinda liked that the only people going rogue were either dumb or trolling or both because it made it more satisfying to kill them. also one bunch of people are saying its carebear land and the other bunch are saying its full of unkillable gods who farmed the birdcoins pre-update. I really don't know what to expect
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Mar 15, 2016 17:02
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:there also really should be no real penalty to dying in the dz other than getting a huge !!WANTED!! marker over your head and getting your poo poo stolen maybe treat it like an exp debt penalty? if you die, you don't lose exp and derank, but you do lose the ability to gain more exp and progress until you pay the exp debt? that effectively means "you stop risking rank at level 50 because who loving cares after that point," but maybe have it so you only risk losing exp and deranking if you go manhunt? i dunno, i'm just spitballing.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:02
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:As long as it is the one of the only reasonable ways to gear at endgame, PvP in DZ is going to be tacitly frowned upon. Yeah agreed. There needs to be a parallel track of advancement. (like the example I gave before) Anime Schoolgirl posted:they should just make the penalties 0, instead give carebears a small token bonus Hm, you get a 'salary' for playing in the DZ so long without going rogue? I guess that'd work too, kinda weird though. I don't know that'd be enough to stop some people from going rogue though. We don't want everybody rogue 24/7. And with that kind of bonus there'd be no reason to just stay peaceful until you get a good opportunity, then take it. You can have your cake and eat it too a little too easily that way. The penalty needs to exist, but not be as bad.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:02
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The biggest issue that I see is that the best gear is tied to the safehouse vendors which completely breaks the risk/reward model they're going for. You can either risk losing a shitton of exp/dz bucks/dz keys to MAYBE get some crappy purples that you then have to extract, or you can just farm PVE mobs in the DZ and not participate in the rogue system at all to get vastly better gear that you have no risk of losing since there's no need to extract it.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:03
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Vatek posted:The biggest issue that I see is that the best gear is tied to the safehouse vendors which completely breaks the risk/reward model they're going for. You can either risk losing a shitton of exp/dz bucks/dz keys to MAYBE get some crappy purples that you then have to extract, or you can just farm PVE mobs in the DZ and not participate in the rogue system at all to get vastly better gear that you have no risk of losing since there's no need to extract it. if they keep this model, the penalties shouldn't exist at all Zaphod42 posted:Yeah agreed. There needs to be a parallel track of advancement. (like the example I gave before) you could ratchet up the bonus for people who spend LONGER in non-rogue status, but cap it so one person can't just hide in cubbyhole #69 in 420th street idle ingame. Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 17:04
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Ularg posted:You guys weren't kidding about General Assembly. It's raining purples! Hallelujah! None of them are upgrades, but there's just so many! I load the game in like ~15 seconds, so yeah an SSD sure helps  I never get load times on entering/exiting safe houses. The only times I get a load are when I load the game and if I switch parties with somebody who isn't in my instance, and then its very fast. SSDs are pretty good times. And cheaper than they used to be by a ton. I had a 256 before that wasn't big enough, now I have a TB SSD and its great.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:04
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The game needs a deathmatch mode or alot of people will just drop it. The game modes in destiny are what keep the lights on.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:04
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Zaphod42 posted:I load the game in like ~15 seconds, so yeah an SSD sure helps Yea I have a 350GB SSD. I might have to just transfer the game over (because I'm sure as hell not redownloading it at 6mbps). It will probably break when I do that, anyway. I figured that there wouldn't be a huge increase in load times because of its multiplayer nature. I don't know why but for a lot of multiplayer games the loading times are made to wait more on connections than loading the game. And yea, if anyone can fill me in on how I should be comparing possible weapon upgrades, let me know. I was told DPS as a stat is useless but my 55k Assault rifle blows everything out of the water that I can't get past 35k.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:14
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The DZ has the potential to be a long-term hook but they need to get the model right. In the short term they absolutely need to make some major changes to the risk/reward model and rework where the best sources of loot are coming from. Probably the best short-term fix they could make is to remove all the high end loot from the safehouse vendors and transfer it to bosses within the dark zone. That comes with its own set of problems but those high end blueprints would be a lot more interesting from a gameplay perspective if you had to collect them from a difficult boss and then extract them.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:17
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Roman posted:This is a problem devs seem to have. I remember back in the Bad Company 2 days the devs said they only let you go to lvl 50 because " they didn't think people would play that much." It's not like that was the first Battlefield game they ever made, yet the devs still had no clue how much time people put into this stuff. That's weird cause in bf2 the highest ranks were unattainable unless you put in thousands of hours.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:17
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You guys are forgetting the whole point of the endgame is to keep you playing. So, you lose rank in the DZ and guess what, now you've got to keep playing to get that rank back up.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:17
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Maker Of Shoes posted:When you argue with Zaphod everyone loses. Everyone who doesn't have Zaphod on ignore is a monster. In game related content, the street outside my base of operations was a "fall through the world" zone last night for a while. It was like a fun mini-game trying to sneak into my own base without dropping through the ground.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:22
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Rabble posted:You guys are forgetting the whole point of the endgame is to keep you playing. So, you lose rank in the DZ and guess what, now you've got to keep playing to get that rank back up. except what happens is that people recognize the grind for what it is and just go and play something else that isn't a slog. now you have a dead game. grats.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:22
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Wouldn't a better way to handle the loss be something more like "XP gain is reduced to 25% for 1 hour after a rogue death plus a modest penalty to cash." Rather than outright removing progress.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:22
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Kamikaze Raider posted:nah. arenas are dumb. I like the open world pvp. Arenas are the dead sentence for open world pvp games. The moment theres open arenas, the open world dies, because is easier and more convenient to queue for a arena and idle in a corner, than risk a open world encounter. People will bitch and moan about queue lenghs, having to wait 15 min, they may even have less fun, but given the option they will not play the open world if you give them arenas. Of course somebody is going to argue that not, maybe even provide a real world counter example.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:23
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I get how their cloud server structure works and stuff, but I really wish they would region limit this poo poo. I am really tired of russians, chinese, brazilians. I want to run by/kill people that understand me when I talk to them and vise versa. Not to mention I always seem to get tossed into some 3rd world server where there is a lot of lag, but there is no place in the UI I can look to see how bad my ping is every time I load up I spend a couple minutes shooting tires trying to calculate the time between firing my gun and the tire popping. Also, quick question about DZ vendor gear since I haven't had to purchase any yet. Is the Rank 10/30/50 stuff just limited to when you can buy the item or does it limit use too? Like if I hit rank 30 and buy a gun and then get killed and De-rank to 28 can I still use the weapon? I would assume so, but then what is the point of having a rank requirement other than to gate people from buying it too soon. Also I have the game loaded on my SSD (850 PRO) and had the beta on a normal HDD. Load times are slightly better when first entering the game maybe 10 seconds quicker on the SSD. Fast travel load time is much quicker, as is entering and exiting a safe house. I'm always stuck in a queue when I first load up which is annoying, you have to connect to see your character and menu stuff and then connect again to the actual server to then wait in a queue, then when the queue pops you connect again before it actually loads anything. thebushcommander fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 17:26
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Ularg posted:Yea I have a 350GB SSD. I might have to just transfer the game over (because I'm sure as hell not redownloading it at 6mbps). It will probably break when I do that, anyway. I figured that there wouldn't be a huge increase in load times because of its multiplayer nature. I don't know why but for a lot of multiplayer games the loading times are made to wait more on connections than loading the game. Can confirm division lets you in as soon as you can load, there's no artificial waits. I have a friend on a standard HDD platter, and there's times where he'll fast travel somewhere, and I manage to join his party and load in before he does, and I can walk around and see where he's going to load in to. I guess with some multi games its because the server itself is still loading, or wants to wait until all players are loaded so there's no unfair advantage. Division is more mmo-esque in that regard, there's always a central server and its always going, there's no concept of "matches" so there's no need to delay players. The DZ is always on. DPS isn't a useless stat, its just crude. If one weapon has vastly more DPS that's probably a safe bet, but if they're close you have to test them out, and if they're vastly different weapon categories (shotgun vs smg for instance) you really have to just compare them in practice versus the sheet dps. But if your 55k assault rifle feels good, use it.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:26
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ShineDog posted:Wouldn't a better way to handle the loss be something more like "XP gain is reduced to 25% for 1 hour after a rogue death plus a modest penalty to cash." Rather than outright removing progress. I'm not sure there is a point to rank past 50, so unless you're losing rank, there is no penalty at all? Clearly they're going to add more content requiring higher ranks, but same difference. You grind up to the next tier as a carebear, hit the current max (if you hadn't already reached that point from loving off anyway), get your gear, then grief until the next content patch. Who knows, for the sake of keeping the game alive, that may actually be preferable.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:27
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Tei posted:Arenas are the dead sentence for open world pvp games. The moment theres open arenas, the open world dies, because is easier and more convenient to queue for a arena and idle in a corner, than risk a open world encounter. well, in this game, I think that would probably be exactly what happens if they just tack on an arena and don't address the underlying problems with top level DZ farming/pvp.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:27
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If you troll a teammate by closing an elevator door before he's fully inside and he gets stuck on it the game crashes.  When is there going to be a proper teabag replacement in this game? It's putting a serious damper on my DZ fun times.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:27
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Kamikaze Raider posted:well, in this game, I think that would probably be exactly what happens if they just tack on an arena and don't address the underlying problems with top level DZ farming/pvp. The lower brackets have the same issue since the best source of reliable loot is still the safehouse vendors and the numerous checkpoint vendors. The only difference is that the best gear at lower brackets is blue or purple instead of orange. Vatek fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 17:30
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afkmacro posted:That's weird cause in bf2 the highest ranks were unattainable unless you put in thousands of hours. the problem is that with battlefield it's accepted that it's purely pvp on maps you play on over and over, so you can just add ranks and stuff. with games like division and destiny that are also pve you also need a steady stream of new content.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:32
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Vatek posted:The lower brackets have the same issue since the best source of reliable loot is still the safehouse vendors and the numerous checkpoint vendors. The only difference is that the best gear at lower brackets is blue or purple instead of orange. Well, that difference and outside of twinking for lower bracket griefing, there is absolutely no need to go to the trouble unless you're just trying to not outlevel your friends but still want a little something to do and show for the time.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I"ve done this several times and I don't get all the bitching about rogue penalties. They could be a bit less, I guess, but make them too minor and everybody just murders each other endlessly. It shouldn't be a care bear zone but it shouldn't be a non stop gank fest either. But it IS a carebear zone right now. There's no PvP in the PvP zone except accidental tags. Zaphod42 posted:As-is as long as you can escape from rogue status there is no penalty at all, so just git gud. Learn how to lead people on a wild goose chase and escape. Zaphod42 posted:There is an incentive for going rogue; you get xp for killing people and you get to take their loot. I really wish people would stop ignoring this just because its convenient for their arguments.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:35
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Maker Of Shoes posted:If you troll a teammate by closing an elevator door before he's fully inside and he gets stuck on it the game crashes. So what you're saying is that they need to take a cue from Loadout? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlGlenLFCrQ The Mash posted:But it IS a carebear zone right now. There's no PvP in the PvP zone except accidental tags. I don't agree with this. In the several nights I've played DZ I've been killed pretty often by groups. Some of them know exactly where to hide or hold out while others are pretty easy targets to follow. It hasn't been dead but it definitely isn't as often as the betas were. I was rank 20, level 30. cage-free egghead fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 17:35
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So is the DZ really as inflated with OP players due to the currency glitch as I keep hearing about?
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Mar 15, 2016 17:43
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Does the "bonus resistance if you kill while moving" talent apply if you're just shuffling about behind cover? edit: never mind, answer is yes
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