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WB made that statement about pushing off the availability of their shows for Netflix didn't they? They want their own streaming service.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:50
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Astroman posted:No matter what rumors are out there about the showrunner he was the one who created that environment. He was the one who led the diverse casting of the show, supervised writing women in leadership positions (2 out of the last 5 Chancellors were women, the two Commanders were women, Ice Nation's leader was a woman, etc). He cast a number of gay characters who gayness was a non-issue more than I've seen on any show, same with black and asian characters. But yeah, he's probably racist and a bully. The tumblr stance on JRoth is that he cast a diverse bunch of actors so he could reap himself plenty of progressive points and then kill off most of that diversity while giving most of the important plots to the white characters. Now, I don't necessarily agree with that stance. I don't think he's a cackling bigot beneath a veneer of fake progressivism or anything like that. I think it's far more likely that he's just a tone-deaf rear end in a top hat. Like that thing he said to Jarrod Joseph; that sounds like something my idiot relatives would say as a joke without realizing how hosed up it sounds. It's not that he doesn't want to be progressive, it's that he's kinda bad at it. Like, for example, not realizing how hosed up it was that, in his progressive and diverse show made in TYOOL 2013, the first main character who died was The Black One. Or not realizing how making a beat-for-beat recreation of one of the most pointless, reviled lesbian death scenes in television history might upset the lesbian fans he has worked so hard to court. But the dude did oversee a lot of diverse casting, it's true, and it's cool as heck that the show is so awesomely feminist. So for me, he's kinda hit-and-miss on the progressive front. The rear end in a top hat part is the bigger issue. All signs point to the cast not liking him, fans not liking him, even the writers room seems to be low-key fed up with him. And, as someone else already said in this thread, this is a CW show, which lives and dies on whether or not it can build and keep a hardcore devout fanbase. If he's alienating that many people, maybe the show would be better off without him. I guess we'll see how the ratings fare when the show comes back after the break.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:56
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Rhyno posted:WB made that statement about pushing off the availability of their shows for Netflix didn't they? They want their own streaming service. Time Warner did, they're also trying to buy a stake in Hulu so they can push for cancelling their next-day-air for new shows service in a misguided attempt to force people to buy cable packages. Comcast is also a stakeholder that wants the same thing but they had a "no meddling until 2018" clause so hopefully we should be good for at least 2 more years. Since I watch everything, including and especially CW shows on Hulu, I'm agin it The delaying shows thing is just something their CEO said ata trade show. Pedowitz has said many times that the CW model strongly relies on selling streaming rights so I dunno how the CW remains a going concern if they can't sell rights, zoux fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 18:58
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Spergatory posted:The tumblr stance on JRoth is that he cast a diverse bunch of actors so he could reap himself plenty of progressive points and then kill off most of that diversity while giving most of the important plots to the white characters. Now, I don't necessarily agree with that stance. It's a stance not based on any facts. Plenty of important white characters have died since the beginning. Heck, not only that, one of them massacred a bunch of civilians last season and was executed for it. So it's not like whites are given preferential treatment or portrayed in an especially positive light.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:33
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Fast Luck posted:I guess Bellamy is in full Us vs Them mode because after massacring an army there to protect them, this episode he executes 2 messengers for no reason as well. And then at the end of the episode, when Kane is sentenced to death for literally attempting to kidnap and deliver the chancellor to the enemy, a more than fair punishment if you actually support the nazi Pike, Bellamy suddenly has a crisis of conscience. I'm not posting this to be all POLITICS LOL, but if you check out this link a lot of Bellamy's actions seem to fit the way authoritarians think. He's a follower, and as soon as he latches onto a leader figure he does whatever they say, only breaking ranks when the cognitive dissonance is too much for him (having to execute a father figure).
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Mar 14, 2016 19:59
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I don't really agree that Bellamy is a "follower" since he took command of poo poo from the moment they landed, and was one of the leaders for the first three seasons. Back on the ship too he was trying to be in the guard but he was also smuggling his sister into a masquerade ball instead of just following rules. This new turn to me just seems like a case of the writers deciding to make some conflict
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Mar 14, 2016 20:42
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Bellamy is conflicted. He wanted to be the leader but when it became clear that he wasn't the man for the job he moved aside and followed Clarke. Then the adults made it down, they went to war with Mount Weather and Clarke abandoned him. Kane wasn't the man he remembered from the Ark so he fell in behind the person who reminded him of Ark life and who seemed to want to do what was best for the Arkers.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:48
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Yeah it's just these people know what it's like to be surrounded by a grounder army demanding justice. It happened only last season. Anyone that thinks murdering a force of grounders there to protect them would be good for the ark is not thinking very intelligently, and while I can buy it from Pike since he's a fascist dick I don't expect it from Bellamy let alone do I expect the entire ark to vote for a guy who's plan is let's sneak out in the night and murder our allies who occupy this entire continent while we're here in this little fenced in outpost. Despite all that I don't hate this season, but that was a dumb idea
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Mar 14, 2016 20:55
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So I just caught up with Season 3. Internet buzz and reviews and such had me really worried but I'm liking it just about as much as I did for the last 2 seasons  . Sure, Bellamy's darkside switch happened a little too quickly and Pike's a dick but hey, Jaha's still batshit crazy, Murphy's still trucking, Octavia's still a badass and the whole nightblood/Becca/Polaris thing is pretty loving sci-fi so I'm happy.It was very strange that Bellamy so readily saddled up with Pike but I think it's more that the writers wanted to move him to Pike's side to artificially create conflict quickly rather than a whole-hearted betrayal of his character. The scene between Clarke and Bellamy in Arkadia went a long way to convincing me that Bellamy's motivations, while really dumb, make sense.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:11
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If you skip over season 2, Bellamy's actions are 0% surprising. Season 2 did exist though, so it feels weird because it seems like they're undoing rather than progressing. Bellamy's actions are obviously within his characterization and I think his motivations are basically sensible wrt his character but you know, it feels unpleasant.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:27
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http://variety.com/2016/tv/opinion/the-100-lexa-jason-rothenberg-1201729110/ really good article about the lexa situation also the same author grilled the gently caress out of jroth about how much pike sucks and it's hilarious http://variety.com/2016/tv/features/the-100-bellamy-betrayal-chancellor-pike-grounders-1201697285/
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Mar 14, 2016 23:33
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Given Bellamy's existing characterization this season (which I find abrupt but not unbelievable given the Grounder's actions in last season's finale) his decision to shoot both those messengers at the start of Terms And Conditions makes complete sense. He wants immediate revenge for the death of that scouting party that the Grounders killed. It's only when Pike starts directly threatening other the Arkers with death that he flips on Pike. Hell, it's possible to see what he's going through as a kind of PTSD (though I certainly wouldn't argue that, it's a possible line of argument). His needs are actually pretty simple, and he's just operating by the Blood Must Have Blood ethos that the Grounders, ironically, have been operating under.The Grounder army had to die in order to make up for all the Grounder caused deaths inside Mount Weather (this season and at the end of the last one). The Grounders this episode had to pay for the death of the scouts and the raiding party, and for killing his friends on multiple, multiple occasions. Remember when the Grounders attacked him with arrows when he was just trying to save someone from falling off a cliff? They're a pack of arseholes. He's also not wrong about the fact that the Grounder council (and Lexa) still sees Arkadia as lesser than the other clans. Though she was the mastermind behind the destruction of Mount Weather, Lexa never sought reparations for that action in a way that would benefit her SkaiKru buddies. She used it as a political motivator to remove the Ice Queen. Her complete failure to address this issue directly lead to the Arkadians taking matters into their own hands, out of vengeance and a fear for their own safety. And, of course, now that Lexa is gone, the only bullwark preventing Arkadia being overrun is gone too, and the essentially selfish and fickle nature of the Grounders is back once again. Which makes their decision to isolate themselves and violently eliminate the Grounder standing army make a lot of sense. I'm not supporting his actions, obvs., but I totally believe them.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:36
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This show is awesome and the net drama behind this show has gone beyond stupid. It actually hilarious at this point to watch the wailing and gnashing of teeth over a guest character getting killed off in a show that kills people off. The lesson that should be learned here is don't pander to tumblr, it lets them think they have some sort of importance or input into a show's writing.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:46
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Foul Ole Ron posted:The lesson that should be learned here is don't pander to tumblr, it lets them think they have some sort of importance or input into a show's writing. I think the crux of the problem is they sort of pandered to the tumblr-ish community, rallied them up behind the show, made a lot of vague promises about Lexa making it to the season finale. Then buried their gays pissing everyone they catered to off. Hopefully the ratings go back up somewhat this week, before the whole show gets killed by a stray bullet.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:36
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Azhais posted:I think the crux of the problem is they sort of pandered to the tumblr-ish community, rallied them up behind the show, made a lot of vague promises about Lexa making it to the season finale. Then buried their gays pissing everyone they catered to off. yep the article I linked goes into that, as well as this sweet tweet by orlando jones  this is getting a ton of publicity and traction, it's not going away anytime soon. like it or not this is a pretty huge deal and is getting the attention of a lot of networks on how to deal with this kind of situation. the way it was handled by the showrunner was not good, and it's an unfortunate misstep and I'm not sure if they can fully recover from it, but we'll see. the person who is handling it the best is surprisingly the guy who wrote the episode who is going to be the showrunner on the new Xena series so that's promising!
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Mar 15, 2016 01:45
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I'm afraid that the lesson network executives will learn is: Don't make gay characters, its too much drama. I think that anyone who thinks the executives will learn anything worthwhile from this are deluding themselves.
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Mar 15, 2016 02:01
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Dalael posted:I'm afraid that the lesson network executives will learn is: Don't make gay characters, its too much drama. considering they just announced that the new Xena series is going to make the Xena/Gabrielle relationship text instead of subtext right after this all happened I'm not so sure about that
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Mar 15, 2016 02:02
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Azhais posted:I think the crux of the problem is they sort of pandered to the tumblr-ish community, rallied them up behind the show, made a lot of vague promises about Lexa making it to the season finale. Then buried their gays pissing everyone they catered to off. i really doubt that the community you mention (people who get offended/butthurt by nonsense and stop watching shows) consists of more than a few thousand people. then again maybe i have too much faith in humanity. quote:Hopefully the ratings go back up somewhat this week, before the whole show gets killed by a stray bullet. the ratings dropped because of a basketball game. how many times do we have to say this? furthermore, the exact same drop happened last season. episode 6 had 1.86 million viewers, followed by 1.62 million for episode 7 (i.e. terms and conditions), and then 1.40 million for episode 8 which was the episode Finn was killed. So let's stop trying to read tea leaves here.
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Mar 15, 2016 02:04
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Troposphere posted:considering they just announced that the new Xena series is going to make the Xena/Gabrielle relationship text instead of subtext right after this all happened I'm not so sure about that Turns out the subtext was hardcore friendzone. If people want to watch a show with a strong gay character that probably isn't going to be killed anytime soon, there's always Brooklyn-99
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Mar 15, 2016 02:04
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Spergatory posted:The tumblr stance on JRoth is that he cast a diverse bunch of actors so he could reap himself plenty of progressive points and then kill off most of that diversity while giving most of the important plots to the white characters. Now, I don't necessarily agree with that stance. I don't think he's a cackling bigot beneath a veneer of fake progressivism or anything like that. I think it's far more likely that he's just a tone-deaf rear end in a top hat. Like that thing he said to Jarrod Joseph; that sounds like something my idiot relatives would say as a joke without realizing how hosed up it sounds. It's not that he doesn't want to be progressive, it's that he's kinda bad at it. Like, for example, not realizing how hosed up it was that, in his progressive and diverse show made in TYOOL 2013, the first main character who died was The Black One. Or not realizing how making a beat-for-beat recreation of one of the most pointless, reviled lesbian death scenes in television history might upset the lesbian fans he has worked so hard to court. Well that's absolutely fair enough. The tumblr conspiracy theory is total bullshit, but I can buy your take on it.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:11
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Azhais posted:I think the crux of the problem is they sort of pandered to the tumblr-ish community, rallied them up behind the show, made a lot of vague promises about Lexa making it to the season finale. Then buried their gays pissing everyone they catered to off. But this is just a prime example of why you should not pander, especially to tumblr. For glods sake, the place is a gigantic politically correct circke jerk, home to some of the most toxic, most deluded fans bases on the planet. Why ever encourage them?
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Mar 15, 2016 09:54
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Browsing the internet, it seems like a lot of the Jason Rothenburg is a racist stuff is being massively exaggerated. Also, and I find tumblr's hypocrisy incredibly amusing -- Ricky Whittle doing a jokey cross-dressing dance at survivalcon is apparently perfectly fine, and not an appropriation of queer subcultures. And let's no-one remember that one time he smacked that photographer. He's a sainted matyr.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:35
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On a completely unrelated note, since when has the 100 been available on netflix?
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Mar 15, 2016 11:39
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:On a completely unrelated note, since when has the 100 been available on netflix? Beginning of season 2 I think.
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Mar 15, 2016 11:40
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Oh I know what they did, I know what the drama is about and I know that Jroth is a bit of an rear end for pandering so obviously. I mean it's nowhere near as bad as the Supernatural fanbase. I'm sure they'll learn to deal.
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Mar 15, 2016 12:06
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The Iron Rose posted:On a completely unrelated note, since when has the 100 been available on netflix? Day one if you happen to the in Canada.
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Mar 15, 2016 13:11
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So there aren't episodes this week and next, correct? 
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Mar 15, 2016 17:55
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Johnny Truant posted:So there aren't episodes this week and next, correct? Yeah. I'm so angry I think I might stop watching the show!
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Mar 15, 2016 18:23
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Troposphere posted:http://variety.com/2016/tv/opinion/the-100-lexa-jason-rothenberg-1201729110/ Second article was actually pretty interesting when it got to the interview. quote:I think, in a way that justifies somebody like Pike being anti-Grounder and not seeing the differences between the clans and not recognizing [complicated relationships among clans]. Ice Nation is aggressively violent and war has cut his population of people down from 180 to 60 in three months. He’s just been losing people. To me, that made sense. A guy comes out of that crucible and he’s just there to survive today.
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Mar 15, 2016 18:43
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Yeah, it really could have stood to benefit from a flashback episode where we actually got to see Pike and farm station's hard choices, kind of like Lost's "The Other 48 Days." As of this point it's hard to have any kind of empathy for Pike's crew, which is kind of a huge failure in storytelling considering the crux of the Arkadia plot hinges on this. It's even hard to care about the destruction of Mt. Weather because we didn't get to know any of the people in there. They're just numbers in an increasingly large amount of deaths that the 100 likes to use to up the stakes.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:04
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the lady who wrote those articles was on a podcast where she talked about how she thinks the writers were praised so much for having unexpected twists and turns in their show that they bought into their own hype and are now trying to do shocking things to be shocking without any build up so the payoff just feels weak and doesn't land. Clarke killing everyone in Mt. Weather was powerful and unexpected. the ice nation killing the people in Mt. Weather, the event we are supposed to see as their 9/11, was just meh who cares. the only person we knew who died was Bellamy's Dead Girlfriend whose name I can't even remember right now and she was horribly horribly executed in general. same with the massacre on the grounder army. they didn't even show us that taking place so the impact was really muted.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:12
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Cardboard Box A posted:If you haven't noticed, this is a CW show. Engaging with your horrible fanbase over twitter, tumblr, and whatever else spawned from twop is written into the contract. Also, as a CW show, it's expected to have complete character reversals for ??? reasons. You're watching something fairly coherant then woopsie! one of the main characters has gone grimdark-cackling evil-loonytunes, one has a new very convenient superpower, all the other characters seems to have reset from their former character development and plot holes abound. Building on existing plots and character growth is haaaaarrrd so they just add a new big bad, reset everyone back to default and voilà! Bellamy follows the pattern of being wiped back to season 1 Bellamy. If this was your usual CW show: Jaha would suddenly be psychic, they would have introduced a character to make a Lincoln/Octavia/New guy love triangle, Bellamy would have been shown killing wounded child soldiers with glee and we'd have sad indie-pop music montages of Clarke heartbroken over Bellamy's change. Edit: I Just mean to say that if you don't expect too much from this stupid show it delivers... but expecting plotlines that would and will work out from the mess they've put forward from the start of season 3 is only going to end in annoyance and or tears. They brought in ice nation, polis and farm station with no real foundations so we don't have any emotional stakes in these plot. More invested in Jasper vs alcohol than half of what's going on because it's so flimsy. n3wt fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 21:36
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As I said earlier in the thread, I really feel like this season there was an executive decision made to fast-track the Arkadia plot so they could spend more time developing Lexa, and they just wound up shooting themselves in the foot on both counts. Lexa became one of the show's best characters, but that just made it even more of a pissoff when they killed her, whereas Bellamy was one of their best characters and now he's one of the worst, an unlikable murderer worse than Finn who we will be expected to Feel Bad For because he had a change of heart after betraying and murdering his allies in their sleep. And we're stuck with him. Lexa's gone, but Bellamy is more than likely going to get another redemption arc, which is ludicrous now that he has ten times the blood on his hands and one tenth the excuse. See, if it were someone like, say, Monty doing this instead of Bellamy, I'd get it. Monty missed the entirety of the Great Grounder Cultural Exchange so he has precisely zero reasons to like them. He lived on Farm Station, so has valid reasons to be super upset that so many of them got blown up. He's canonically one of the youngest characters (15 or 16 to Bellamy's 23), so it's easier to accept him being a misguided dipshit, especially when he has his mom, his only remaining family, whispering bullshit in his ear and constantly reassuring him that he is doing the right thing. Monty didn't even participate in the massacre (too busy babysitting Drunk Jasper), but if he had, I would've been able to buy it. It'd still be reprehensible, but it would've made a ton more sense for his character, and the mitigating circumstances would've been enough for me to accept him going for some kind of hard-won redemption afterwards (probably by shooting his mom). Instead, we got Bellamy, who witnessed at least part of the Grounder Friendship Fest, who has been working directly with Grounder-Lovin' Kane for over three months and seems to see him as a father, whose little sister has basically become a Grounder (and has a Grounder boyfriend), and we're expected to accept that he would just disregard all that to follow Pike to Murder All Grounders Fest 2XX6 over a dead girlfriend that we knew for two episodes. Oh, and also because he's upset about the betrayal at Mount Weather I guess. But Monty even has more of a reason to be pissed off about that than Bellamy does! Monty actually knew Maya! And the fact that they were forced to kill her destroyed his relationship with his closest friend! gently caress, at this point, I almost feel like this entire plot was supposed to go to Monty and they just threw Bellamy in because ~conflict~. With Monty, this would have at least been new territory for his character development.
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Mar 15, 2016 21:49
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Yeah, I can see a version of this were it's Monty and his mum filling in the Bellamy and Gina roles with Bellamy being given the Marcus rebellion leadership role instead.
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Mar 15, 2016 21:55
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I'll never forget Mt Weather  All that sweet pre-war tech, lost forever.
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Mar 15, 2016 22:05
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Yeah I can see that working with Monty too. You can totally keep a show fast paced without sacrificing organic character growth. They can throw new stuff in so long as we get a little exposition but Arcadia succumbing to anti-grounder fever seemed like an overnight switch after Kane and Clarke had done all that goodwill building because farm station folks were given so little background and Pike has never been shown as anything but an angry stranger. The way their history on earth wasn't revealed but sort of teased had me thinking there was some sort of nasty secret like they ate Monty's dad during a siege or something!
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Mar 15, 2016 22:06
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n3wt posted:Yeah I can see that working with Monty too. I'm fairly sure Pike had him executed for not falling in line and Monty's mum is culpable.
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Mar 15, 2016 22:13
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PriorMarcus posted:I'm fairly sure Pike had him executed for not falling in line and Monty's mum is culpable. My money's on cannibalism. There was something about how Pike and Mom told that story that reeked of "this is the nice version we've agreed to tell".
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Mar 15, 2016 23:07
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I'll never forget Mt Weather At least they got the paintings out. hope and vaseline posted:Yeah, it really could have stood to benefit from a flashback episode where we actually got to see Pike and farm station's hard choices, kind of like Lost's "The Other 48 Days." As of this point it's hard to have any kind of empathy for Pike's crew, which is kind of a huge failure in storytelling considering the crux of the Arkadia plot hinges on this. It's even hard to care about the destruction of Mt. Weather because we didn't get to know any of the people in there. They're just numbers in an increasingly large amount of deaths that the 100 likes to use to up the stakes. This would be absolutely fantastic. If they did it right, we could come put of it cheering Pike and totally agreeing with him (well probably not really, but you know what I mean). Cardboard Box A posted:If you haven't noticed, this is a CW show. Engaging with your horrible fanbase over twitter, tumblr, and whatever else spawned from twop is written into the contract. I think the racist conspiracy theories are dumb, I think shippers threatening suicide are dumber, but yeah I'll admit pandering to a segment of the fanbase on purpose and then pulling the rug out from under them is dumbest. It'd be one thing if they just made their creative choices and fandom acted like idiots, but if the showrunner, writers, and producers were specifically reaching out to and pandering to demos on purpose knowing they were gonna piss them off...yeah. 
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Mar 16, 2016 01:19
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Spergatory posted:As I said earlier in the thread, I really feel like this season there was an executive decision made to fast-track the Arkadia plot so they could spend more time developing Lexa, and they just wound up shooting themselves in the foot on both counts. Lexa became one of the show's best characters... ahaha, what? in this very thread people kept bringing up the fact that she can't act. how had she become "one of the show's best characters"? because she finally had sex with Clarke?
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Mar 16, 2016 02:02
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