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Main Paineframe posted:I suppose it depends on what you mean by "collapse". Short of a massive popular revolution, I can't see the North Korean society degrading to the point of complete breakdown of the system. Even if the central government falls, there are plenty of regional power-holders and generals to take the reins of the system and declare themselves the next Supreme Leader, and it's more convenient for NK's neighbors to immediately recognize whoever ends up with the nukes as the new leader of the DPRK and give them a bit of aid to help them stabilize things, rather than invading and taking responsibility for the population. If the civil system of North Korea totally fails, there would be little choice but to take control and build a puppet government as fast as possible, but I don't consider a total disintegration of society like that to be as likely as one of the "as your new future dictator, congrats on overthrowing the old dictator, I will totally make things better and not abuse you, honest" events that South Korea is so familiar with. But if the central government suddenly collapsed for any reason, I don't see any regional military leader emerging as a figurehead that intervening nations would want to endorse. The lack of food, fuel, and equipment is so dire that I expect the military and police to fracture into factions that would be too concerned with stockpiling said food, fuel, and equipment to establish any provisional government worth mentioning. I expect they'd be more like heavily armed gangs than anything that could be called an army. Anosmoman posted:I'm not sure you could have a popular revolution in NK. It seems too controlled and repressive for opposition groups to get organized. Cliff Racer posted:They wouldn't be marching on Dear Leader, they'd be marching FOR him, against his unworthy son who has been lead astray. Dapper_Swindler posted:Stupid question. but how has a plague/virus/whatever not almost destroyed north korea yet. I doubt they have good healthcare despite what their appologistes attest. I know famine related syndroms and diseies are rampant. I am just surprised their hasn't been a cholera epidemic. CelestialScribe posted:Someone smart tell me whether I should be worried about North Korea readying nukes. Cliff Racer posted:I'll go so far as to say that the next ruler of North Korea probably will not be a direct ancestor of KIS. 
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Mar 4, 2016 20:09
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It's not like pre-industrial nations were just constantly devastated by plagues every few decades, humanity has survived for thousands of years without modern medical care. Even if North Korea was at that level you can't expect the country to just spontaneously explode from disease. And it's not at that level anyway. There's an account from a doctor in Nothing to Envy if you're interested in reading about it. They have sparse access to modern drugs but they're still educated, and that was during the famine so it might have gotten better now.
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Mar 4, 2016 23:09
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Stupid question. but how has a plague/virus/whatever not almost destroyed north korea yet. I doubt they have good healthcare despite what their appologistes attest. I know famine related syndroms and diseies are rampant. I am just surprised their hasn't been a cholera epidemic. In addition to the factors other have mentioned, it also seems like you're grossly underestimating the importance of basic sanitation measures in preventing things like a cholera outbreak from turning into a full-scale epidemic. Proper sewage disposal, sterilization, and water treatment (via heat, chlorine, UV) do not exactly require super advanced medical infrastructure to implement properly once you have the knowledge. North Korea's development level is more than sufficient for such things, even with the obvious resource and technological deficiencies it suffers. I would also assume that an authoritarian police state that doesn't really give a fig for things like rule of law or human rights could implement some pretty effective monitoring/quarantines in the face of an outbreak if it chose to do so. LGD fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 23:31
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Halloween Jack posted:Well, it depends on what you mean by control. The authorities only have so much ability to exercise constant police-state supervision over the population. But if the people wanted to march on Pyongyang en masse, they'd collapse from fatigue and hunger on the way. I suppose I should make it clear that I do not think that any sort of popular uprising is possible. My version would be a military uprising lead by a general/security service overseer who is either very ambitious or very worried that he's hosed under the current system so might as well try.
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Mar 5, 2016 00:46
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CelestialScribe posted:Someone smart tell me whether I should be worried about North Korea readying nukes. If you mean the latest announcements from Lil' Kim, no. The DPRK regularly issues declarations of war, threats to annihilate random American cities (once they threatened to attack Austin - I can only presume because I live here and somehow offended the Great Marshal) which from any other country on the planet would be cause for distress and swift defensive mobilization, but from North Korea simply means "It's Thursday". Some highlights: quote:Due to the U.S. and south Korean puppet forces' reckless provocation and war moves, the situation on the Korean Peninsula has gone beyond the controllable level and the worst physical conflict has now become unavoidable. quote:If the U.S. and other hostile forces persistently seek their reckless hostile policy towards the DPRK and behave mischievously, the DPRK is fully ready to cope with them with nuclear weapons any time. quote:The DPRK is a nuclear weapons state whether one recognizes or not. Accordingly, the relations between the DPRK and the U.S. are the ones between nuclear weapons states. If the U.S. uses nukes, the DPRK is compelled to strike the U.S. mainland with its nukes. The DPRK has already declared its principled stand that it would react to the U.S. nuclear blackmail with a merciless nuclear attack and to a war of aggression with an all-out war of justice. The DPRK can never repress its anger as the U.S. is bringing the dark clouds of a nuclear war to hang over the DPRK while seeking to stand in confrontation with it to the last. You can see ravings like this on the state news website (kcna.co.jp - hosted on a Japanese server in the enemy camp as part of the Final Victory, presumably) on a daily basis. As for why the North Koreans do this, primarily to justify to their own people why they live in poverty and near-starvation, and universal decade-long conscription - because according to the state, the evil Americans have been attacking North Korea for decades and they live under wartime conditions. Similarities between this sort of propaganda and the life of Winston Smith and his compatriots in 1984's Airstrip One is left as an exercise for the interested reader. If you really fall down the rabbit hole of trying to understand the alternate universe of North Korean propaganda, The Cleanest Race is a good place to start. Lum_ fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 22:51
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i should count the facile comparisons to orwell novels itt. i bet it would number in the hundreds
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Mar 9, 2016 15:17
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Homework Explainer posted:i should count the facile comparisons to orwell novels itt. i bet it would number in the hundreds Oh no... if you conclusively prove that D&D doesn't discuss well, they'll close the forum down! 
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Mar 9, 2016 18:24
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I heard the norks are planning on liquidating Southern assets, which I would assume is the Kaesong plant. Any confirmation?
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Mar 11, 2016 06:01
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That and the stuff at Mt. Kumgang, yes. Or at least thats what the BBC said. edit: It would be nice if this were the thing that finally made businesses stop and say, "maybe we shouldn't put any physical investments in North Korea." But as history has proven, thats not how capitalism works.
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Mar 11, 2016 07:11
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https://www.nknews.org/2016/03/u-s-student-gets-15-years-hard-labor-for-attempted-theft-of-poster/quote:US student Otto Warmbier has been given 15 years hard labour in North Korea for crimes against the state.  okay now I do feel for the guy. he picked a really unlucky time to pull that stunt.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:03
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Koramei posted:https://www.nknews.org/2016/03/u-s-student-gets-15-years-hard-labor-for-attempted-theft-of-poster/ Do most prisoners of this kind serve their full sentences or is it more likely that he'll be used to bargain for something?
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Mar 16, 2016 16:04
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The non-ethnically Korean ones tend to get out pretty quick, but things are pretty tense right now. He's probably not gonna have to do all 15 years but he may be poo poo out of luck for a fair while.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:11
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NK wants to bargain for him but the US doesn't wanna cave for at least a year or until this curent crisis blows over. It's gonna suck for him.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:01
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Lesson here: Really don't go to North Korea.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:08
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My first reaction was 'That's clearly a vacation suit. I guess if you're gonna visit NK you better bring an extra suit to stand trial in.' At least he didn't have to wear a Hawaiian shirt.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:08
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Koramei posted:https://www.nknews.org/2016/03/u-s-student-gets-15-years-hard-labor-for-attempted-theft-of-poster/ I like how they concocted a bullshit story about how his college prank was really a plot by an anti-communist American church and the CIA to steal North Korean propaganda and he was actually a paid agent. I get the feeling that if we can't negotiate a release, we're not going to see this kid alive in 15 years.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:04
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North Korea isn't going to let their white token die. It won't be pleasant, but it will be way better than if he were korean.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:25
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He's still useful as a bargaining chip 10 years from now ya dumbie.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:10
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Gotta find extras to play the white dudes in propaganda films somehow.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:49
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That guy should have been given 40 lashes Singapore style then released.
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Mar 17, 2016 14:45
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WorldsStrongestNerd posted:That guy should have been given 40 lashes Singapore style then released. I don't think you really get the idea of a gulag system. It's not to serve justice or punishment.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:20
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Koramei posted:https://www.nknews.org/2016/03/u-s-student-gets-15-years-hard-labor-for-attempted-theft-of-poster/ He doesn't deserve 15 years of hard labor, but it's really hard for me to feel sorry for a guy who is so totally stupid as to pull a stunt in North loving Korea. That's got to be absolute number one on the list of places where you don't gently caress around and you keep your god damned hands to yourself.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:30
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:He doesn't deserve 15 years of hard labor, but it's really hard for me to feel sorry for a guy who is so totally stupid as to pull a stunt in North loving Korea. That's got to be absolute number one on the list of places where you don't gently caress around and you keep your god damned hands to yourself. He deserves to be called an idiot for walking into a totalitarian dictatorship for bragging rights, but would vastly prefer he'd be mocked at home than become NK's latest propaganda prize.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:02
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What's really sad is that I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give him all the propaganda posters he wanted if he just asked. Of course he's just a dumbass who wanted to do something exciting but the way NK spun this into a huge huge conspiracy is just mind blowing, if not unexpected.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:07
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:He doesn't deserve 15 years of hard labor, but it's really hard for me to feel sorry for a guy who is so totally stupid as to pull a stunt in North loving Korea. That's got to be absolute number one on the list of places where you don't gently caress around and you keep your god damned hands to yourself. Agreed, not to mention his trip basically helped to fund the lovely regime. That is not even counting what will inevitably be bargained to get him back. Still, hipsters gotta have their sweet ironic vacations, doubt this will stop the next dozen morons from thinking twice.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:07
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North Korea has apparently launched a ballistic missile off the east coast of the peninsula. I'm guessing for it to just fall into water, but that's quite the ballsy move. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/17/asia/north-korea-missile-launch/index.html
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Mar 17, 2016 23:30
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chitoryu12 posted:I get the feeling that if we can't negotiate a release, we're not going to see this kid alive in 15 years. Am I the only one thinking the CIA should just call up Kim Jong Un posing as Michael Jordan and ask him to release the kid? It turns out that the entire three-peat era Bulls team are passionate about nuclear non-proliferation as well for some reason!
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Mar 17, 2016 23:54
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c0ldfuse posted:He's still useful as a bargaining chip 10 years from now ya dumbie. Which is exactly why he isn't going to keel over and die if NK can help it.
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Mar 18, 2016 00:23
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Aw, North Korea launched another missile. Tantrum, ahoy!
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Mar 18, 2016 01:23
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Geostomp posted:He deserves to be called an idiot for walking into a totalitarian dictatorship for bragging rights, but would vastly prefer he'd be mocked at home than become NK's latest propaganda prize. gently caress him. The longer he stays and suffers for his loving ego, the less dumbfuck hipster tourists will go to North Korea and help fund their regime. BonoMan posted:North Korea has apparently launched a ballistic missile off the east coast of the peninsula. I'm guessing for it to just fall into water, but that's quite the ballsy move. Apparently they fired two, but one blew up in midair. Still not quite confirmed on that one, though.
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Mar 18, 2016 06:59
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mobby_6kl posted:What's really sad is that I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give him all the propaganda posters he wanted if he just asked.
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Mar 18, 2016 07:27
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OneEightHundred posted:That's assuming that he actually took a poster in the first place. I see absolutely no reason to doubt the North's story. They haven't been caught lying about the past American tourists who have been arrested. The one guy really did try to pass on a Bible and the other one really did try to defect/claim asylum/whatever bizarre poo poo he was up to. Well, no reason to doubt the part of the story where he tried to rip down a poster anyway, the CIA/Korean church part is a little doubt-able.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:05
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^^^This. They've always been pretty guileless about this sort of thing. Spy this, propagandist that; the only reason they'd throw in something believable like "stole a poster" is because it actually happened.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:50
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nm posted:Which is exactly why he isn't going to keel over and die if NK can help it. On that comment we were responding to the same guy you had just got a comment in before me so it didn't flow right.
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Mar 18, 2016 12:02
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Is there an actual picture of the poster this twit tried to steal? I must have missed it in all the ballyhoo.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:10
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There are pictures of level five floating around on the internet but all of them seem to show murals and not posters.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:52
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Gorilla Salad posted:Is there an actual picture of the poster this twit tried to steal? I must have missed it in all the ballyhoo. 
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Mar 18, 2016 14:57
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If he tried to steal a mural it's understandable they are a little pissed.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:34
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Gorilla Salad posted:Is there an actual picture of the poster this twit tried to steal? I must have missed it in all the ballyhoo. That would just be giving North Korean propaganda the exposure it wants. 
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Mar 18, 2016 18:05
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waitwhatno posted:I don't think you really get the idea of a gulag system. No poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:13
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